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Smart Cleaning School

437 episodes - English - Latest episode: 12 days ago - ★★★★★ - 35 ratings

The Smart Cleaning School Podcast helps cleaning business owners from start-up to the struggling solo to the striving seven-figure get SMARTER in their businesses, reshape their mindset, increase productivity, clear the overwhelm, and get clarity through SMART goal-setting & personal accountability. Ken Carfagno is a lifetime learner and teacher. His mission is to help visionaries make the impact they were meant to make.

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Episodes

Art Trumps Science

August 06, 2020 05:00 - 25 minutes - 17.7 MB

Let's start this Carfagno Cleaning solo business with a WIN! Last week, I got 5 referrals through my local network (listen to Play Powerball with your Business). The lead from my friend and carpet cleaner, James Hardy, converted to a new office cleaning client! Since this new client is a school, I had to jump through a few more hoops. First of all, I needed to go beyond adding them as a 'Certificate Holder' on my general liability policy. I needed to increase my insurance for this additional...

Winning is a Mindset, Not an Outcome

August 03, 2020 05:00 - 13 minutes - 9.53 MB

This episode is completely my son's idea. Kenny jammed his finger a couple months ago. I noticed that he was dragging his feet with household chores because his finger hurt. He wasn't shooting the basketball well and losing in PIG because his finger was hurt. It seemed like everything Kenny did that first week, he was looking for empathy and wanting everyone to see him suffering. It also gave him a built in excuse why he wasn't performing in multiple tasks. Was his finger hurt? Yes, it was....

Play Powerball with Your Business

July 30, 2020 05:00 - 23 minutes - 16.4 MB

As we emerge out of the pandemic, people are wanting their homes and offices cleaned again. This week alone, I got 5 opportunities to quote! Before I share the 5 leads, I want to explain a principle. Are you familiar with the lotto machine? The Power Ball Lotto Machine has 69 white ping pong balls that bounce around off each other and the machine walls until 5 are selected. There's a second machine with 26 red balls, where 1 is selected to go with the 5 white ones. I want you to think about...

Optimizing is More Mental than Physical

July 27, 2020 05:00 - 11 minutes - 7.97 MB

My son was getting frustrated with cutting the grass. We have an acre and he'd take 2 days to complete it. His total time was 2 hr 45 min (30 min prep, filling up grass, picking up large sticks, cleaning up yard toys and moving furniture) and 2 hr 15 min to mow over 2 days. He wanted a riding mower because it was taking too long. I have done this to solo cleaners for a long time and knew it was time to prove a point to my teenage son. I told Kenny. "You're off duty this week. I'll cut the g...

Reverse Engineer Your Dreams

July 23, 2020 05:00 - 24 minutes - 17.1 MB

This was a breakthrough week for the Big Picture of what I'm doing. I have business SMART goals that I set for my solo cleaning business on 1/1/20. I share this mindset in my goal-setting series (What is Your Why, Why Set Goals, Make Your Goals SMART, The Accountability Roadmap, and Kill Parkinson). The lessons and reminders from this week in business forced my hand to create a 6th installment to this series. As many of my podcast listeners know, I have other streams of income. I run the SM...

Stop Acting Like a Poor Person

July 20, 2020 05:00 - 18 minutes - 13 MB

Chest freezers are super-hard to get right now with the COVID pandemic. They are back ordered by manufacturers and the used market is dry. So when Teresa came across one on Facebook Marketplace, she jumped at the opportunity as she really wants one. It was a great deal and the seller was going above and beyond to save it for us. He assured me that it worked and I trusted him. He's a business person and had a solid story for why he was selling it. I'm usually a very good judge of trust. We p...

Be a Lighthouse Not a Buoy

July 16, 2020 05:00 - 17 minutes - 12.3 MB

We watched "Hamilton" as a family and loved it! Lin-Manual Miranda is genius and so talented. We can't stop singing the songs and I keep finding myself singing, "You'll be back" or "I am Alexander Hamilton". There was an incredible lesson in leadership that was introduced in the earliest scenes of the play and played out in the Election of 1800. Aaron Burr was portrayed as an excellent politician, but held no definite position. In the play, here's Burr's advice to Hamilton in the opening. "T...

Remember Lake George

July 13, 2020 05:00 - 22 minutes - 15.7 MB

In the first year of my cleaning business, we were struggling big time! Every house was a chore and every dollar was spent before I even earned it. I'll never forget the house at Lake George. It taught me so much.  Keep your dream big and keep it alive. Every struggle seems worth it when your dream is big. Every nasty house you clean after Lake George is worth it. A leader in the Amway business named Larry Winters said this. "If your dream is big enough, the facts don't count." Not everyon...

Every Conversation is a Seed

July 09, 2020 05:00 - 25 minutes - 17.5 MB

Six months ago, I met Michelle at a chamber luncheon and handed her my business card. After the luncheon, I sent a personal video message through VidYard as a follow-up to our meeting. She watched the video and replied back with gratitude. Then she told me she would keep my information on file. Then Corona hit and real estate was crushed, so I wasn't expecting anything. I received a phone call from Lon this week, a local realtor. He wanted an estimate for a sale-ready presentation cleaning...

Healing Grows with the Poison

July 06, 2020 05:00 - 16 minutes - 11.3 MB

I used to get nasty poison ivy as a kid. It would bubble up and itch like crazy. The worst case I ever got was on my face. My eyes were puffed nearly shut in the heat and humidity of July. It was torture. Thankfully, the doctor gave me a steroid to help heal it. You get the point. Now my son gets it bad. Last summer, he attended a survival action camp for Royal Rangers and in that camp learned something amazing. Jewelweed is a natural remedy for the poison ivy infection. The best part is tha...

Missing Puzzle Piece

July 02, 2020 05:00 - 17 minutes - 11.9 MB

In past episodes during COVID-19, I have shared at nauseum how I've educated my local community on the "9 Mistakes in Disinfecting". I have shared it in every group that would allow with several others upcoming! In my latest edition to my BIB networking group, I blazed through the 9 mistakes in 5 minutes. Since we were all on Zoom, some members had spouses in the background listening. I just wanted to get this information out there. My friend Bill Downs called me after the meeting. "Ken, my ...

The Clutterbug Story with Cassandra Aarssen

June 29, 2020 05:00 - 21 minutes - 14.8 MB

I am excited to introduce my friend and YouTube superstar, Cassandra Aarssen to Solo Cleaning School. I invited her to be an expert guest in the SMART Cleaning Tribe that I lead for team cleaning companies needing accountability around goals. Cassandra was a busy mom of two small kids when she started her home organizing business. At the time, she was also running a daycare with 9 children for extra money. She saw home organizing as a way to make extra money and possibly get out of the dayca...

Pandemic Proof Your Business

June 25, 2020 05:00 - 27 minutes - 18.8 MB

In my last solo cleaning business update, I shared how sharing my knowledge directly lead to my local pharmacy boosting a video I made leading to over 4,500 views! Collaboration is so vital. It's what networking done right really is. Like-minded local business owners sharing with each other for the greater good of the community. Life also gets in the way. I've shared how losing my Nana caused me to slow down work to attend to family matters. The last few weeks have been difficult as I'm the ...

Don't Be a Spider Monkey

June 22, 2020 05:00 - 16 minutes - 11.3 MB

The spider monkey is extremely hard to catch due to its speed and agility. However, you can trap the monkey with a box and a fruit. That's all it takes. Place a piece of delicious fruit inside of a box designed to fit the monkey's arm. Once he grabs the fruit, he cannot let go, even though his clenched fist will not fit through the hole. The monkey is snared by its small thinking and desire for the immediate gratification of the delicious fruit. Ultimately, this is the undoing of the spider ...

By Appointment Only

June 18, 2020 05:00 - 25 minutes - 17.5 MB

In this podcast, I share an incredible case study from my friend Hugh Gbewonyo from Foot Solutions in Norristown, PA. Before I go into Hugh's case study, it's important to understand his industry and how he chose to niche. The shoe industry has been growing year-after-year from the 1-to-1 shoe salesman model to the box store. My dad was a shoe salesman in small private owned mall store who knew shoes, was great with people, and took the time with each. I sold shoes years later in a box store...

It's the Overwhelm that Stops People

June 15, 2020 05:00 - 23 minutes - 15.9 MB

While on a TLF mastermind call where Bee Evans was sorting out her various business projects, Vincent said something profound because Bee had a lot going on. "It's not the overwhelm that stops people, it's the work". Bee is a super hard worker and comes from an oil & gas family in Colorado. She knows work ethic. But she is torn as she feels called to continue her family business while starting various side businesses in professional corporate coaching, winning a spot on the Denver Broncos ch...

Boost My Post

June 11, 2020 05:00 - 17 minutes - 11.9 MB

In my last cleaning business update, I did not hoard my knowledge and it lead to opportunities to help my community. Since we're in the middle of a global pandemic, I'm doing whatever I can to serve my community in my expertise of cleaning. In part, it's actual cleaning and in part, knowledge. In this week's update, let's continue the theme of serving. I served my clients in a way I've personally never done, but it made a HUGE difference! A veterinary hospital I've cleaned for nearly 2 year...

Don't Be a Hoarder

June 08, 2020 05:00 - 26 minutes - 18.5 MB

So many companies are ultra competitive, trying to dominate their local area. They hang onto proprietary information and get patents to own their knowledge. This is great and definitely needed so others don't steal your inventions and creative processes. But is it always good to keep your specialized knowledge close to the vest? I believe we are blessed with the ability to learn and comprehend and obligated to give back to help others. I'll even go so far to say that hoarding your knowledge ...

Get a Big Dream

June 04, 2020 05:00 - 26 minutes - 18.2 MB

Have you ever had a dream that kept you up at night? I have. In March 2010, I was making up creative adventure stories with my 5-year-old son Kenny at bedtime where he was the main character in the stories. We were connecting so much as father & son, that my wife encouraged me to record them. I listened. By the end of the summer of 2010, I had a complete 10-book adventure, fantasy series filling up 22 hours of mp3. As I searched for the next step, a deep desire welled inside of me to not onl...

Train Your Clients

June 01, 2020 05:00 - 18 minutes - 12.6 MB

I host an accountability & mastermind call every Monday for the SMART Cleaning Tribe. We are a family of cleaning service owners with teams (that used to be solo). I'm the architect of this group of amazing people, always looking for the 1% that desires to set monthly SMART goals and be held accountable to their achievement. Check out the episode "The Accountability Roadmap" to learn more about the 1% club. We had an interesting discussion this past week on the topic of client scope creep. ...

Like a Palm Tree

May 28, 2020 05:00 - 15 minutes - 10.8 MB

I've been reading a morning devotional called "Daily Readings from It's Your Time" by Pastor Joel Osteen. On page 131, I read "Be a Bounce-Back Person" in amazement. Do you know that the little palm tree can endure the worst of hurricanes, when all other trees are thrown over? I didn't! The palm tree is uniquely designed by God to bend, but not break. Then, the palm tree grows after the storm because the root system is strengthened by the bending of the tree. It's absolutely inspiring and in...

A Time to Laugh

May 25, 2020 05:00 - 17 minutes - 12.1 MB

Right in the middle of the hardest emotional week of my life, I took my oldest son Kenny on day trip to Jack Frost & Big Boulder Ski Resort in the Pocono Mountains. There are two monster lessons I learned this day and wanted to share them both. The first lesson is in the power of laughter that I shared in the Funny Papers. My Nana passed on February 22nd. The funeral was March 2nd. Our ski trip was already scheduled for February 25th. Teresa and I thought it would be good for me and Kenny t...

It Was All a Blur

May 21, 2020 05:00 - 21 minutes - 15.1 MB

The week of February 17th, 2020 started out with a little tension. My Nana was admitted into the hospital with pneumonia. She fought this 2 years prior and beat it, so it was a little tense but I felt good about her health. I captured my business week in "Top of Mind". Typically, I would cover the next week in business and share a lesson. However, I had a month that felt like 1 long week. It was all a blur. On February 22nd, 2020, my Nana, Gabriella Carfagno went home to be with the Lord. I...

Top of Mind

May 18, 2020 05:00 - 19 minutes - 13.7 MB

Had a great mastermind on Monday morning on how to accelerate my goals. I described the scenario with new client Kim on the call. They gave me ideas such as reaching out to the builder and offering to clean the model home for free (count as advertising expense) and get my pdf/brochures into new homes, serving the neighborhood, giving Asher's or Penn State related thank you gifts to Kim, finding out if there is a closed group on FB for the neighborhood as I can do a FB Live, brochures/door ha...

Tips From My BIB

May 14, 2020 05:00 - 23 minutes - 16.3 MB

We are not out of the woods yet. Many are still under stay-at-home orders, while less-affected areas are returning to work. Wherever you are, my Believers in Business Networking Group can help. A few weeks ago, we put out a document with tips from each member's expertise and personal experience to help survive & thrive through this crisis. I think you'll find these tips useful for your business and family. My own contribution was my tips on the "9 Mistakes in Disinfecting" Evan Gehman (Gehm...

A Gift For Mom

May 11, 2020 05:00 - 23 minutes - 16.1 MB

"It Just Got Real" was a very tough episode to release. I shared how my own mom was in the hospital being treated for various life-threatening after effects of COVID-19. Our whole family came together over the past 2 weeks to really show our strength, unity, and love for our mom. In that episode, I was very honest about how the pandemic had only affected us financially until my mom was in the hospital. It just got real and suddenly, I didn't care about money too much. My mom was discharged ...

Don't Lose Thousands to Save Hundreds

May 07, 2020 05:00 - 22 minutes - 15.5 MB

For the past several episodes, I have focused in on the current crisis of COVID-19 in hopes of helping you through it. It's May and spring is in the air. States are beginning their reacclamation to the world. I felt it was time to catch you up on my own solo cleaning business and get back to the show format that I began. Before I go backward, let me share an awesome story. In "Local Heroes", Ellen Johnston of Above & Beyond Housekeeping in Reading, PA was ecstatic as her company's video clip...

It Just Got Real

May 04, 2020 05:00 - 23 minutes - 16.3 MB

I've watched the devastation that cleaning companies face due to the COVID-19 pandemic. I've listened to all sides of the quarantine argument and I'll tell you this... when Corona hits your loved ones and you get a gut punch, your perspective changes. It's one thing to feel the pain of the financial strain and only hear of the health strain many face from Corona. It's an entirely different thing to feel the pain of a loved one fighting for their life in the hospital with the disease. That wa...

I'm Being Punked with Letra Grayer

April 30, 2020 05:00 - 9 minutes - 6.88 MB

Letra was working for a large national cleaning service when her boss recognized an entrepreneur's heart inside of her. Instead of offering a promotion, Letra was offered mentorship and the opportunity to go solo. This is unheard of. Businesses don't launch other businesses unless they are franchises or financially incentivized. That's why Letra thought she was being punked. Check out this solo cleaning story and the plan she formed recently in her marketing with a little help from yours tr...

Local Heroes

April 27, 2020 05:00 - 26 minutes - 18.5 MB

Ellen Johnston (Above & Beyond Housekeeping Services / Wyomissing, PA) - 69 News in Reading, PA on 4/24/20 headlined "Housekeeping company gives out free hand sanitizer"  "I was in the disinfectant aisle, just because I wanted to see it, and there was an older couple, say in their 80s. There was no disinfectant of any kind," recalled Ellen Johnston. She overheard the wife ask her husband a question we all have probably asked over the past couple weeks. "It was so sad," Johnston shared. "She...

Curiosity is the Curriculum

April 23, 2020 05:00 - 17 minutes - 12.1 MB

Your kids are home and they are driving you crazy! We've been homeschooling for 10 years and wanted to impart some wisdom on how you could spark their passions with a little curiosity! There is a lot of busy work given to your kids by their schools. They want to maintain control of what they learn and how. That's fine. Here's what I recommend. Put away the devices and turn off the TV. That's when you can make curiosity the curriculum. Challenge 1: Tell your kids to go outside and find somet...

Your Kids Can Clean

April 20, 2020 05:00 - 10 minutes - 7.29 MB

I learned work ethic by working and humility by being humbled. Here's what I mean. I watched my mom and day each work very hard toward their goals, but I truly learned work ethic when I had to do house cleaning chores every week. Over time, I even learned to like it and appreciate it. I was paid for my work and always had money in my savings account. It felt good and I could buy things that I wanted. I also learned humility as cleaning toilets and taking out trash is not glamorous and can be...

Protect Your Family from COVID-19

April 16, 2020 05:00 - 17 minutes - 12.3 MB

Let's start with a great resource. What is the Center for Disease Control's (CDC) current understanding about transmission from their website? Spread from person to person within 6 feet via respiratory droplets Transmission via contaminated surfaces has NOT been documented Infected, but non-symptomatic people play a huge role in transmission Transmission through droplets much more common than fomites (objects or materials which are likely to carry infection, such as clothes, utensils, an...

9 Mistakes in Disinfecting

April 13, 2020 05:00 - 9 minutes - 6.71 MB

Over my 15 years of professional cleaning for home & small business owners, I have seen that 90% of people DO NOT disinfect correctly. They fall prey to one of the "9 Mistakes in Disinfecting". This episode summarizes these 9 mistakes.  #1 Mistake! Not fully cleaning surface first! #2 Mistake! Not selecting a registered disinfectant! #3 Mistake! Not selecting the right disinfectant for the right pathogen! #4 Mistake! Not following the directions on the label! Dilute correctly and wet sur...

The CARES Act

April 09, 2020 05:00 - 36 minutes - 24.9 MB

This episode is for my US-based solo cleaners only. President Trump signed the CARES Act into law on Friday, March 27th. In this 900 page, $2 trillion bill, congress has earmarked $350 billion in personal stimulus to American families and $350 billion to the Small Business Administration (SBA) to disperse to small businesses across the fruited plain. The personal stimulus is automatic and requires no action. If the Treasury already has your bank's direct deposit on file, you'll receive your ...

Make Pearls

April 06, 2020 05:00 - 15 minutes - 10.6 MB

We are in a challenging time as we navigate the devastating effects of the Coronavirus. We need to be wise, use caution, and protect ourselves and families. But we also need to control our emotions and try to view things optimistically. A great example emerged a few weeks before the corona outbreak with my daughter. She was struggling as a pre-teen and allowing a small irritant to throw off her whole day. I told her the beautiful story of the oyster and the pearl. First, an irritant enters t...

Finding Opportunities

April 02, 2020 05:00 - 25 minutes - 17.8 MB

I begin this episode with a real estate investing story from my brilliant cousin Seth. He is not a big time cash buyer in the real estate world. Every time he tries to compete on their level and get to the houses at the pre-foreclosure or auction stage, he is beaten because he cannot compete with cash. Seth had to find another way. Make sure to listen to this podcast to see the shear brilliance of Seth's advantage and how he is buying properties in his area. From this story, I pivot to solo...

Know Your Numbers

March 30, 2020 05:00 - 19 minutes - 13.5 MB

This week started amazing. Lead #2 Kim (from Erika's recommendation) hired me for cleaning. The story of the hire is worth sharing. They were weary of keeping their old cleaner as they were uninsured and minor property damage occurred. I educated Kim on the risk of hiring uninsured cleaners. This lead to a great in-person discussion and estimate. I sent the proposal directly after and they hesitantly agreed. The hesitancy came from her husband that I didn't speak to. He was strictly comparin...

Excellence Vs Perfection

March 26, 2020 05:00 - 16 minutes - 11.6 MB

Perfectionism is a big problem in the cleaning industry. It took me over 15 minutes to say it in the podcast. It's really not that complex. Perfection is working hard to make YOU as happy as possible and you may never get there. Excellence is working hard to make THE CUSTOMER as happy as possible and you absolutely can get there. = How do you know if you've made them as happy as possible? You ask them how you've done. I consult with cleaning company owners all over the country and so many s...

Assume the Best in People

March 23, 2020 05:00 - 20 minutes - 14.1 MB

I alluded to this story in "There is a Huge Difference". If you'd like to hear this full story, listen to the episode. The quick version is this. I was working from home and noticed a car in our driveway. They were upset and waiting for something. After a half hour, I knew action needed to happen. But what would I do? I chose to assume the best in this person and it paid off big time. The stranded motorist was the owner of a local chocolate factory. Six months later, they remembered me when ...

Can You Send Me Information?

March 19, 2020 05:00 - 20 minutes - 14 MB

The week started with a text referral. I had no idea who the client was until talking to her and connecting the dots to Erika lead #5. Here's the text. "Hello Ken, my daughter got your info from FB about cleaning. Can you send me information about your services?" I could have easily called her, but I used what I learned from "70% Happens Before the Phone Call", asked for her name, and then sent her my website to learn more about our company. She responded with her name, Diane, and thanked me...

70 Percent Happens Before the Call

March 16, 2020 05:00 - 14 minutes - 9.75 MB

In Marcus Sheridan's "They Ask You Answer", the author makes a powerful statement. "On average, 70% of the buying decision is made before the prospect talks to the company." This is amazing news.  I have a solo cleaning marketing system with 5 key steps:  "Profile to Win", "Creative Marketing", "Using the Phone as a Filter", "Art of the Estimate", and "7 Strategies to Close the Sale". As a system, these lessons help to activate your sales funnel to filter the wrong clients out and the right...

There Is A Huge Difference

March 12, 2020 05:00 - 22 minutes - 15.4 MB

This week started off great! I got the email back from Doug Floro that they are ready to start me this week. Yay! I've added my 3rd new house cleaning client. Another email came in early in the week from Scott from Asher's Chocolate. They were looking to get a window cleaning estimate. I connected with Scott, he wanted to get quotes on office deep cleaning, floor cleaning, and window cleaning. At the end of the conversation, he said something about his owner recommending to call me and somet...

Eat With Your Eyes First

March 09, 2020 05:00 - 16 minutes - 11.5 MB

I had so many quality influences growing up, but not many in the entrepreneurial path until my mom remarried Paul Tibbitts when I was 10 years old. Paul grew up with entrepreneur parents who owned multiple businesses, held real estate, owned an airplane, and understood excellence in all they put their hands to. I didn't understand this until later in life and this episode shares my journey. Monty & Shellie Tibbitts were wonderful to me as a step-grandson. I watched them and always wondered ...

The Time I Fired Myself

March 05, 2020 06:00 - 15 minutes - 10.7 MB

In 15 years of solo cleaning, over 75 families have hired me to clean for them. However, I sold my business with 17. What happened to the others? It's simple. This is a seasonal service for some and a lifetime for others. I never tried to figure that out. I just served. I have lots of experience getting "let go", "moved on", "fired", etc. Some let me know face-to-face with a month's notice. Some stopped immediately through email, phone, or text. Others just disappeared (literally a UFO got '...

Will You Come to Delaware?

March 02, 2020 06:00 - 23 minutes - 16.4 MB

I break down the numbers in this episode. If you remember, I was at a low point in "Broken Record", making the connection between average SMART goals and average results. I wanted 2020 to connect great SMART goals to great results. Therefore, I had to make a critical change. For the previous 10 years, I've been creating ACTIVITY & OPTIMIZATION SMART goals on my main business and GROWTH SMART goals on my side passion project. This wasn't fruitless as I optimized my solo cleaning business big ...

Broken Record

February 27, 2020 06:00 - 21 minutes - 15 MB

In my last two Carfagno Cleaning updates, I shared the story of Doug Floro and how a seed turned into an opportunity. I started this week by completing his house cleaning proposal with 6 options and hit send! Like I always say, you never know! Right after the proposal, I wrote, published, and repurposed (to social media) a new cleaning newsletter. I also sent out my monthly invoices and something amazing happened. One of my office clients asked if I would be willing to bill ahead for 6 mont...

An Old Unkept House

February 24, 2020 06:00 - 20 minutes - 13.8 MB

The week started off great. In my last podcast update on my own solo cleaning business, I shared the story of Doug sliding another cleaning business's card across his desk and asking me what I thought of her. I spoke highly of her, even after he told me that he used her company for his own house. Well, I got an email from Doug on Monday asking if I would be willing to do a cleaning estimate for his house. I was amazed, scheduled an appointment, and completed it by the end of the week. It jus...

Outside the Box

February 20, 2020 06:00 - 18 minutes - 12.5 MB

Listen to this episode to hear the backstory and how our game of Giant Jenga went. I want to share the vital part and message in the show notes. We were at the critical point where there were no more potential blocks to pull. My daughter was faced with a critical decision. Does she go for the best option and face a 99% chance of failure? Or does she CREATE a new option? I've literally never seen anyone do this in Jenga. Christianna lifted up the top half of the building and rotated it 90 de...

Apologize With Action

February 17, 2020 06:00 - 20 minutes - 14.3 MB

Let's face it. You're going to mess up your communication as a business owner. You will say one thing and mean another. Or, you will think one thing and not fully communicate it. That was the case for me last week with a new client, Ellie. I was under the assumption she understood my 3-part cleaning plan because I had explained it in person. But I never wrote it out and therefore, the plan never existed. I executed the plan of part 2 and followed up with Ellie afterward to get cleaning feedb...