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Pursuing Private Practice

199 episodes - English - Latest episode: about 1 month ago - ★★★★★ - 64 ratings

Take up space in business. The Pursuing Private Practice podcast will empower you to move through the different stages of business and give you inspiration to EXPAND. Not only will you transform your business, but you will transform your CEO role and your life. Get ready for business advice, lessons learned, and stories from other business owners changing the world. Learn how to run your business like a CEO whether you are a solopreneur or have a team. Being a CEO means you are Choosing Extraordinary Opportunities.

Entrepreneurship Business Health & Fitness Nutrition dietitian intuitiveeating jennifermcgurk nutritionbusiness privatepractice
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Episodes

Owning Your Strengths and Passions as a Business Owner with Rachael McBride

September 06, 2021 06:00 - 38 minutes - 29.9 MB

Rachael McBride joins us on the podcast for this episode, and we have such an awesome conversation. We talk about getting started in business, some of the myths that Rachael was told when she started her own private practice, strategies that have really worked for Rachael as she has continued to grow her business over the years, and what it honestly takes to build a private practice. Rachael also shares the story of how she got into Intuitive Eating. This episode is a must-listen! Some...

Stepping into Your Role as a Business Owner with Heather Rudalavage

August 30, 2021 06:00 - 45 minutes - 35.2 MB

Heather Rudalavage has such a unique perspective as a business to share with us. In this interview, Heather talks a lot about being a mom and how parenthood has shaped her business. She also talks about her experience working through imposter syndrome as a business owner and shares some of the “Ah-ha” moments she has had over the years that have really helped her own her entrepreneurial business journey. Some of the topics discussed include: How owning a private practice can complement ...

Diversifying the Field of Dietetics with Deanna Belleny Lewis

August 23, 2021 06:00 - 34 minutes - 26.7 MB

This podcast episode is so inspirational to me. I have followed along as Diversify Dietetics has grown in the past few years, and it is so amazing to see this organization solve problems every single day that no other organization was able to do before them. Deanna and I talk about the formation of Diversify Dietetics (shoutout to co-founder Tamara Melton!)  and the hugely positive impact that has been made because of this organization. This is where true change happens.  We also talk ...

How a Virtual Assistant Can Help You Grow Your Private Practice with Annie Davis

August 16, 2021 06:00 - 33 minutes - 26.4 MB

I interviewed my Virtual Assistant, Annie Davis, for this fun episode. Annie is very much an organized creative, which can be a rare find! She is very creative and artistic and has a love for art, but she is also super organized, which is something I don’t feel like I have anymore within my businesses. Annie helps keep things running so smoothly over here. We also give you a glimpse into some of the tasks that a Virtual Assistant can do for your business. So please use this episode as in...

The Intersection of Culture and Intuitive Eating with Dalina Soto

August 09, 2021 06:00 - 21 minutes - 17.4 MB

As non-diet dietitians, we are already immersing ourselves into more inclusive spaces, especially when it comes to body positivity and Health at Every Size. We really try to honor our clients exactly where they are at in their relationships with food, movement, and their bodies. However, I do think that we sometimes forget to take into account the cultural aspect of these relationships. Dalina Soto saw this problem. She wanted to make the intuitive eating movement accessible to the latin...

Building and Marketing an Unconventional Business with Erica Julson

August 02, 2021 06:00 - 45 minutes - 33.4 MB

Erica and I had such an awesome conversation, and I’m so excited for you to listen in on it.  We talk about how Erica built her brand, nurtures her audience, and created a passive income stream. We also talk through her upcoming maternity leave and how she’s handling the business changes that come along with that.  Erica is doing such an amazing job of being so well known in this community for the amazing work that she does. I hope this episode gives you inspiration into what you want to...

Creating a Unique Business Model with Carrie Dennett

July 26, 2021 06:00 - 37 minutes - 30.9 MB

I have always really admired Carrie’s work, and I love reading her published articles in the media. Her message spreads far and wide, and she really contributes to spreading the non-diet message in this world. In this episode, we talk about the relationship between her private practice and her media work and how these two influence each other. She combines both to create a unique business model that serves her so well! Some of the topics discussed include: Starting a private practice ...

Fitting Business Growth and Achievement into Your Life with Leah Tsui

July 19, 2021 06:00 - 31 minutes - 25.1 MB

I am so inspired by this interview with Leah Tsui! She has been able to accomplish so much after just seven months of opening up her business. Leah and I discuss what it’s like to own a business with an Achiever mindset (we are both Enneagram 3’s!). We talk about how it feels to be constantly battling with thoughts of doing more and getting things done.  We also walk through Leah’s journey of opening up her business and growing and she shares about the support she has needed to get to wh...

Hiring Business Support as You Start and Grow Your Private Practice with Dawn Lundin

July 12, 2021 06:00 - 42 minutes - 33.5 MB

Dawn Lundin and I have such a great conversation in this podcast interview. We talk about starting a private practice and the kind of support we needed at that time, and we talk about how the need for the support continues past the beginning days of being a business owner. Dawn shares the details with us about all of the different people who have helped her in her own business since she started. This interview really highlights the fact that most of us truly do need support in our business...

How I Prepared my Business for Maternity Leave: Interviewing Jennifer

May 24, 2021 06:00 - 36 minutes - 31.6 MB

We’re switching things up today with a reverse interview! My operations director interviewed me shortly before my third son was born, all about how we planned and prepared for my maternity leave at Pursuing Private Practice. We wanted to get a little bit more vulnerable and give everyone a peak behind the scenes at maternity leave as a business owner. Some of the topics discussed include: Preparing for maternity leave during pregnancy Why Jennifer decided to take time off for maternit...

Navigating Competition as an Intuitive Eating Dietitian with Charline Adriaens

May 17, 2021 06:00 - 30 minutes - 24.6 MB

Charline Adriaens joins us from Belgium for this episode! I loved having this conversation with her because intuitive eating has spread across the world in the past two decades. We discuss how culture affects Intuitive Eating, how Charline reaches her ideal clients specifically, and how she has grown her business from Belgium. This was such a fascinating conversation. Enjoy! Some of the topics discussed include: Why Charline became certified as an Intuitive Eating counselor Podcasti...

Maternity Leave as a Business Owner with Kathryn Riner

May 10, 2021 06:00 - 31 minutes - 24 MB

I really love this episode with Kathryn. Not only do we talk about business and her private practice, but we also talk about her going through maternity leave.  We talk about what she did to prep for maternity leave beforehand, how her maternity leave went, and what she came back to at her private practice. We had a very candid conversation about motherhood in general, really reflecting on what’s truly important to us as parents and how to incorporate business, life, and family when there’...

The True Value of Supervision for Dietitians with Elyssa Toomey

May 03, 2021 06:00 - 43 minutes - 36.8 MB

I absolutely loved recording this episode with Elyssa Toomey. Elyssa is the Nutrition director here at Pursuing Private Practice. She also works within my private practice, Eat With Knowledge, as both a clinician and a supervisor. We know how important supervision is, so we wanted to record an episode together to talk about the benefits of supervision, not only individual supervision, but group and peer supervision as well. I truly feel that supervision is key to growing as a professiona...

How Shiny Object Syndrome Affects Your Private Practice with Courtney Darsa

April 26, 2021 06:00 - 24 minutes - 20.4 MB

You are going to love this episode. We recorded this episode one day before Courtney’s one year business anniversary! We celebrate that accomplishment, and we also talk about the problems that Courtney has faced and the lessons she has learned over the course of the past year.  She has struggled with shiny object syndrome (my hand is also raised here!) and we talk about how that has shown up in her business and why shiny object syndrome is so common amongst private practice dietitians. We ...

The Key to Growing a Private Practice with Paula Miller

April 19, 2021 06:00 - 27 minutes - 22.8 MB

I’m so excited to bring Paula onto the podcast for this episode (her very first podcast interview ever!) Paula explains how she has grown her private practice over the past year and where she’s at now. This is a really insightful episode about how much your business really can grow in one year, but also an honest reflection of the hard decisions that have to be made for that growth and because of that growth.  I know you will get so much value from this episode! Some of the topics disc...

Launching an Online Course with Taylor Wolfram

April 12, 2021 06:00 - 33 minutes - 27 MB

In this episode, Taylor Wolfram, MS, RDN, LDN, takes us through the launch of her new online course, The Anti-Diet Vegan Nutrition Course. Not only will you get to hear a behind-the-scenes take on the actual course launch, but you will also get to hear her honest story of experiencing burnout, things she wishes she had done differently, and her plans for launching again in the future.  I love talking about online courses on this podcast, because the marketing plan for a course is pretty di...

“Coasting” in Your Private Practice with Amanda Mittman

April 05, 2021 06:00 - 25 minutes - 20.7 MB

I love this episode so much. Amanda Mittman joins us to talk about gaining the confidence to start a private practice, figuring out what the next steps are, and also knowing when you have to coast in your business.  Amanda is a perfect example of this. She is so crazy busy right now with so much on her plate. She’s not able to actually grow her private practice any more in this present moment, although she has goals and dreams for growing her business in the future. If you have ever felt t...

SAVOR Your Food & Body with Amanda Bullat

March 29, 2021 06:00 - 39 minutes - 34.1 MB

In this week’s episode Amanda Bullat, owner of Alpine Nutrition, shares with us how she helps women break free from diet culture using the principles of intuitive eating and Health at Every Size. We talk about how Alpine Nutrition has evolved since its inception and how Amanda’s  had to give both herself and her business plans grace during the pandemic. Amanda’s approach to healing is so unique and inspiring. It was a breath of fresh air to explore that with her because, personally, I thin...

Diet Culture, Infertility, and Motherhood with Toni Jacalone

March 22, 2021 06:00 - 24 minutes - 20.5 MB

I love Toni’s story, and she shares so openly about it in this podcast episode.  Her passion to help single mothers by choice is so apparent in her voice and in the content that she puts out into the world. This passion stems from her own fertility journey and she believes wholeheartedly in her mission. She explains exactly what her mission is and how she helps single mothers in this episode.  Some of the topics discussed include: Diet culture, infertility, and motherhood Building a...

What to Do When Your Private Practice is Booked Out with Amie Guice

March 15, 2021 06:00 - 37 minutes - 31.5 MB

I absolutely loved this raw and honest conversation with Amie Guice. We talk about what it means to be “full,” or booked out, as a private practice dietitian. This means different things to all of us depending on our life situation and goals, and we discuss those different factors in this episode. Only you can decide when you’re booked out. We also talk about what to do next when you do reach that place. This is actually a pretty common occurrence in private practice — once you’ve been i...

What to Do When Your Private Practice is Booked Out with Amy Guice

March 15, 2021 06:00 - 37 minutes - 29.9 MB

I absolutely loved this raw and honest conversation with Amy Guice. We talk about what it means to be “full,” or booked out, as a private practice dietitian. This means different things to all of us depending on our life situation and goals, and we discuss those different factors in this episode. Only you can decide when you’re booked out. We also talk about what to do next when you do reach that place. This is actually a pretty common occurrence in private practice — once you’ve been in...

Transitioning from Side Hustler to Full-Time Business Owner with Tamara Melton

March 08, 2021 07:00 - 40 minutes - 30 MB

Tamara Melton is the founder of not just one, but TWO businesses, and we dive into what that’s like in this episode of the podcast. In one year, so much has changed for Tamara in terms of her businesses and her entrepreneurial journey. She has a lot going on, and she’s very transparent about how 2020 affected her. She also shares how both of her businesses came to be. 2020 was a big year for Tamara, but I know that she has big things ahead too! She is making such a positive difference wi...

Starting and Growing a Group Private Practice with Alyssa Callahan

March 01, 2021 07:00 - 45 minutes - 36.6 MB

I’ve wanted to have Alyssa on the podcast for a while now, and this interview with her does not disappoint! I’ve watched her put so much effort into growing her business in the past year, and I’m so excited to have her on to share exactly how she grew her group private practice. We talk a lot about doing hard things, whether that means doing something new that you’ve never done before or challenging yourself in a certain business decision. Alyssa has so much great advice to share! Some...

Publishing a Book and Growing Your Business Unapologetically with Alissa Rumsey

February 22, 2021 07:00 - 40 minutes - 33.5 MB

Alissa Rumsey joins us in this episode to do a deep dive into the experience of publishing her book, Unapologetic Eating. We talk about so many different pieces of the book writing journey, including the business aspect of her book and what it is doing for her business, and also about being inclusive and her own journey to developing her passion for the social justice aspect of Health at Every Size. This episode is for any non-diet HAES dietitian who is interested in learning more about ...

[Series] Trying New Things

February 15, 2021 07:00 - 1 hour - 55.4 MB

We’re kicking off 2021 with a special podcast series to catch up with former podcast guests and hear about how they handled the crazy ride that was the year 2020. This episode in the last in this series! I interviewed 4 dietitians who set ambitious goals for themselves, even in the midst of the pandemic, and found the courage to get uncomfortable and try new things that will ultimately get them closer to their goals. For more information, visit https://www.pursuingprivatepractice.com/73

[Series] Learning Important Lessons for 2021

February 08, 2021 07:00 - 1 hour - 44.9 MB

We’re kicking off 2021 with a special podcast series to catch up with former podcast guests and hear about how they handled the crazy ride that was the year 2020. There’s no right or wrong way to process the year that was 2020. This episode focuses on the biggest lessons that four dietitians learned throughout the year, and how these lessons are informing their businesses in 2021. For more information, visit https://www.pursuingprivatepractice.com/72 Congrats on starting a private prac...

[Series] Learning Important Lessons for 2021

February 08, 2021 07:00 - 1 hour - 44.9 MB

We’re kicking off 2021 with a special podcast series to catch up with former podcast guests and hear about how they handled the crazy ride that was the year 2020. There’s no right or wrong way to process the year that was 2020. This episode focuses on the biggest lessons that four dietitians learned throughout the year, and how these lessons are informing their businesses in 2021. For more information, visit https://www.pursuingprivatepractice.com/72 Congrats on starting a private prac...

[Series] Normalizing the Struggle of 2021

February 01, 2021 07:00 - 1 hour - 54.4 MB

We’re kicking off 2021 with a special podcast series to catch up with former podcast guests and hear about how they handled the crazy ride that was the year 2020. This episode focuses on four dietitians who walked through different types of mental, emotional, and physical struggles in 2020. Our hope with this episode is to normalize how much we’ve all struggled this year and reassure you that if you had an incredibly hard year, you aren’t alone.  For more information, visit https://www.p...

[Series] How to Embrace Change in Business

January 25, 2021 07:00 - 59 minutes - 45.4 MB

We’re kicking off 2021 with a special podcast series to catch up with former podcast guests and hear about how they handled the crazy ride that was the year 2020. In this episode, we’re talking with 4 dietitians who learned to embrace the uncertainty of the past year. We discuss the importance of taking the time to reflect back on our trials, creating a responsive business model, and taking care of ourselves. For more information, visit https://www.pursuingprivatepractice.com/70

[Series] Celebrating Business Growth

January 18, 2021 07:00 - 58 minutes - 44.5 MB

We’re kicking off 2021 with a special podcast series to catch up with former podcast guests and hear about how they handled the crazy ride that was the year 2020. This episode focuses on three dietitians who have experienced a growth in their businesses in 2020. If we aren’t intentional about pausing to celebrate our growth and wins, we might just pass it by. Listen in to hear these dietitians recognize the lessons they learned in 2020 and acknowledge the growth they’ve experienced. For ...

[Series] How to Pivot in Online Business

January 11, 2021 07:00 - 1 hour - 50.6 MB

We’re kicking off 2021 with a special podcast series to catch up with former podcast guests and hear about how they handled the crazy ride that was the year 2020. This episode focuses on four dietitians who have pivoted in their online businesses since they were initially a guest on the podcast. Listen in to hear all about when, why, and how they pivoted their businesses and how this pivot has changed the trajectory of their careers. For more information, visit https://www.pursuingprivat...

A Lot Can Change in a Year

January 05, 2021 07:00 - 8 minutes - 11.8 MB

A lot can change in a year! I'm kicking off Season 3 of the podcast by reflecting on 2020 and sharing what I'm changing up and focusing on in 2021. I'm also giving you a sneak peek into what's to come on the Pursuing Private Practice Podcast in the next couple of months and I can't wait for you to hear!   What if you had a *proven* roadmap to show you EXACTLY what to do to get more clients (and retain your current clients!) without spending HOURS networking every day? Sign up for my FR...

Lessons Learned During 2020

December 07, 2020 07:00 - 16 minutes - 16.7 MB

This is the final episode of 2020!! This goes without saying, but 2020 was a year unlike any other. There have been many negatives, but also many positive opportunities for change and growth. In this episode, I’m sharing many of the lessons I’ve learned this year. I would encourage you to find some time to reflect on your own year, too, before heading into a brand new year. Thank you so much for listening to the Pursuing Private Practice podcast, I’m honored to have you here! Some of t...

Improving Your Money Mindset and Building Wealth with Christine Dyan Thomson

November 30, 2020 07:00 - 49 minutes - 38.9 MB

Christine Dyan Thomson joins me on this episode of the podcast to get real about money mindset! The conversation is so needed. As dietitians, our field is made up of mostly women, and that can sometimes make the conversation around this topic feel extra charged. I feel like I’ve been talking about this topic with so many of you lately though, and the more we can address our fears and desires around money without shame, the better our collective mindsets will be. When women earn money, a la...

Navigating the Ups and Downs of Starting a Business with Sammy Robben

November 23, 2020 07:00 - 29 minutes - 23.2 MB

This episode is so inspirational for any of you that are wanting to start a business. Sammy walks us through the fear she felt at opening her own private practice and what she had to do to overcome these feelings. There are going to be ups and downs when you start your business, and Sammy talks through her process of expecting and preparing for this. A unique part of Sammy’s journey is that she opened her private practice immediately following the completion of her dietetic internship. S...

Putting Yourself Out There and Starting Your Private Practice with Courtney Vickery

November 16, 2020 07:00 - 32 minutes - 25.9 MB

Courtney Vickery joins us for this episode of the Pursuing Private Practice Podcast to have a real and honest conversation about how she got into the field of eating disorders. Courtney talks about her own eating disorder recovery and relates this to her ability to do challenging things in her business now.  Courtney is new to private practice (although you wouldn’t know this by looking at her content!). We talk about her business journey and how to embrace the mindset of taking it all o...

How to Thrive as a Multi-Passionate Dietitian with Jessica Oswald

November 09, 2020 07:00 - 33 minutes - 26.7 MB

This conversation is SO NEEDED in the field of dietetics! Jessica Oswald joins me today to talk about being a multi-passionate business owner and wanting to serve two separate ideal clients. This means she will need to implement two separate marketing strategies and set up two separate sales funnels in her business. We talk rebelling against the “rules” of dietetics and making our own path. I encourage you to listen to this episode with an open mind.  Some of the topics discussed inclu...

Balancing Private Practice and a Full Time Job with Stephanie Dorfman

November 02, 2020 07:00 - 23 minutes - 18.8 MB

Stephanie took a leap of faith and started her business this year. We have such a great conversation during this interview about her feelings around starting her own business, how she’s balancing working full time and running a business, and everything she has learned along the way. We talk a lot about having the courage to try new things and just being open to seeing what works. I hope this inspires you to take the first step toward whatever it is that you’ve been wanting to start, too! ...

Growing Your Private Practice by Hiring with Courtney Bellino

October 26, 2020 06:00 - 32 minutes - 25 MB

This is such an awesome interview! Courtney Bellino joins me on this episode of the podcast to talk about where she’s at in her business: fully booked!! Courtney opened her private practice just six months ago, but she’s ready to scale! We talk through the process of growing a private practice through hiring a dietitian and/or virtual assistant. We talk about the both the logistical ins and outs of hiring somebody and the emotional side to hiring. If you are in a similar position as Cour...

Balancing a Virtual Private Practice and Parenthood with Kelly Neilson

October 19, 2020 06:00 - 36 minutes - 28.2 MB

Kelly Neilson joins us on this episode of Pursuing Private Practice to talk about all things virtual private practice and online business. She started her own virtual private practice years ago before the COVID pandemic, but she shares a lot of valuable advice for those of you that are new to the virtual practice world. Kelly tells the story of how her family’s  move across the country ultimately inspired her to start her virtual private practice. A virtual business model has given Kelly...

Let’s Get Honest About Money

October 12, 2020 06:00 - 19 minutes - 21.5 MB

I was nervous to record this episode of the podcast for you, and I’m never nervous to record podcasts. I want to talk about money. Specifically why I charge the prices I charge in my business.  I wouldn’t say I’ve been avoiding talking about this topic, but I haven’t purposefully come out and stated my feelings about money in business yet. Lately it feels like I’ve been having this conversation more and more with the dietitians in Dietitian Business School, so that is prompting me to c...

Building an Online Business to Solve a Problem with Lauren Bickford

October 05, 2020 06:00 - 37 minutes - 27.1 MB

Many of you have told me that you are interested in starting an online business, or at least adding a virtual component to your practice. But many of you are just unsure of how to get started doing that. A less intimidating way to start to think of online business is just an extension of your current practice! There are so many different ways that you can dip your toes in: you could start a group program or create digital downloads or put together an online course, for example. Lauren jo...

Behind the Scenes of a Business Coaching Call with Kourtney Johnson

September 28, 2020 06:00 - 38 minutes - 30.9 MB

When we start our business, it is so common to think: No one is going to buy my stuff. It can feel so hard to talk about our doubts because social media is saturated with competing businesses posting about their successes and flashing their large numbers. Kourtney Johnson joined me for a very honest conversation today about the reality of starting a business and not finding immediate success. This episode is more of a business coaching session than a regular podcast interview, and I’m so...

The Process of Niching Down in Your Business with Jenna Talleda

September 21, 2020 06:00 - 30 minutes - 22.6 MB

Today’s topic is so important, especially if you are newer to business.  Jenna and I are discussing niching down in your business! We talk about the pros and cons of niching down and why it can be so hard to actually do.  Jenna shares her own business plans and talks about approaching her business as an experiment to figure out what really resonates with her. I love this perspective and think it is powerful advice for business owners at any stage in their business. Some of the topics d...

Hiring Team Members to Grow Your Business with Taylor Moser

September 14, 2020 06:00 - 27 minutes - 23.9 MB

This episode of the Pursuing Private Practice is very different from any episode I’ve done before! I really enjoyed having this type of conversation and hope you find a lot of value in it too. Taylor Moser is the Operations Director here at Pursuing Private Practice! We talk about how we found each other, how our working relationship has evolved since Taylor started working with me, and how we manage all of the moving pieces of a growing online business. When it really comes down to it, ...

Setting Up a Business as a Student with Katy Zanville

September 07, 2020 06:00 - 32 minutes - 23.8 MB

I’ve really been wanting to focus more on interviewing brand new dietitians, and it was so great to get Katy’s perspective! She is currently in her dietetic internship and is in the beginning stages of starting her own business. Katy’s dietetic internship has been very unique given the healthcare situation in the midst of the COVID pandemic. At one point she was not even allowed to enter the hospital where she is completing her internship! We talk about what she has learned from this and h...

You Are Your Biggest Asset

August 24, 2020 06:00 - 15 minutes - 15.8 MB

Let’s talk about rest. Taking time off is something that a lot of entrepreneurs struggle with. And this seems like something that we are ashamed of! It seems like we should just love resting and taking time for ourselves. I know that sometimes our mission can feel so BIG and we want to achieve our goals so quickly that we end up hustling all. the. time. But that’s not actually conducive to our success. So let’s talk about it!  Some of the topics discussed include: What is true rest ...

You’re Invited to Dietitian Business School!

August 17, 2020 06:00 - 12 minutes - 9.54 MB

I’m so excited to invite you to Pursuing Private Practice’s new membership: Dietitian Business School! I created this membership with the goal of making it the go-to resource for building your private practice. I am passionate about Health At Every Size and Intuitive Eating, and I think the world needs our message as dietitians now more than ever. Dietitian Business School is an amazing place where you can work on building your business and get support from a community of like-minded dieti...

Starting and Building a Private Practice with Jen Haefele

August 10, 2020 06:00 - 32 minutes - 26 MB

Jen Haefele is a member of the Pursuing Private Practice program, and I absolutely love the energy she brings to the group. This interview is a true reflection of her positive energy. She talks about her goals and dreams, and she talks about the future of her career.  I love to talk with dietitians who are in her position - she is just beginning her journey into private practice. I tend to interview dietitians who are further along in their journeys, but I really want to start featuring mo...

Learning, Growing, and Evolving with Evelyn Tribole

August 03, 2020 06:00 - 42 minutes - 34.3 MB

I had the privilege of interviewing Evelyn Tribole for this episode of the podcast. This ended up being a pretty vulnerable interview for Evelyn. She was very open and honest about her journey and the evolution of Intuitive Eating.  One of the biggest takeaways that I hope you get from this episode is that it is okay to learn and grow and evolve and change! Even if you are an established business owner, there is still so much learning that we can do before we then take action, one of the m...