Time To Rethink Fish Oil Capsules, The Truth About Omega 3 & 6 Processing

Time To Rethink Fish Oil Capsules, The Truth About Omega 3 & 6 Processing with Delia McCabe

We had a great conversation with Delia about a lot of subjects, nutrition, fats, oils. One of the biggest pieces of information she gave us was the truth on fish oil. Fish oil has to be processed at very high temperatures, to be able to get the heavy metals, PCBs, and all the other toxins. Omega 6 and omega 3 oils that do not like light, heat and oxygen.

About Delia

Delia McCabe (PhD) shifted her research focus from clinical psychology to nutritional neuroscience upon discovering nutrition’s critical role in mental wellbeing while completing her Masters. Delia’s research into female stress has been published in a number of peer-reviewed journals, she is a regular featured expert in the media and her two internationally available books are available in four languages. Using her background in psychology, combined with evidence-based nutritional neuroscience and neurological perspectives, Delia supports behavior change and stress resiliency within corporates, and for individuals who want to optimize their brain health, via online courses, workshops and tailored events internationally. Find out more at www.lby.life   

www.lby.life

www.feedingfatty.com

Full Transcript Below

Time To Rethink Fish Oil Capsules, The Truth About Omega 3 & 6 Processing with Delia McCabe

Sun, 6/20 8:15PM • 1:01:43

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

brain, fats, people, eat, omega, fish oil, delia, oils, body, diet, functioning, habit, optimally, essential fats, feel, feeding, good, bit, alzheimer, day

SPEAKERS

Delia, Terry, Roy Barker

 

Roy Barker  00:05

Hello and welcome to another episode of feeding fatty. I'm Roy I'm Terry so we are the podcast chronicling our journey through wellness, which includes diet not eating not being on a diet as much as just our the food consumption portion as well as exercise mindset. It's a we're really looking at a holistic approach. And as we've gotten deeper into this, you know, we've added things to our repertoire, such as meditation and journaling, journaling and the other thing, the one that starts with the are Oh Reiki, right,

 

Terry  00:43

like the way he says it though?

 

Roy Barker  00:47

No, I can't. Anyway, he

 

Terry  00:48

says Reiki

 

Roy Barker  00:50

but in, you know, intermittently, we do have a guest professionals in the field to come on and that's what we have the day and Terry, I'm gonna let you introduce Delia.

 

Terry  01:00

Yes. Welcome to Delia McCabe. She is a PhD who shifted her research focus, from clinical psychology to nutritional neuroscience upon discovering nutritions critical role in mental well being while completing her master's. Delia's research into female stress has been published in a number of peer reviewed journals. She is a regular featured expert in the media and her two and her internationally available books are available in four languages. using her background in psychology, combined with evidence based new nutritional neuroscience and neurological perspectives. Delia supports behavior change and stress resiliency within corporates and for individuals who want to optimize their brain health via online courses, workshops and tailored events internationally. Delia, thank you so much for coming onto the show. We've been looking forward to this for a long time.

 

Delia  02:01

Thank you, Terry. And thank you, Roy. So have I really been looking forward to this,

 

Roy Barker  02:06

I'm gonna merge to the right here. Probably regret this because we could talk for hours about personal stuff. But this is a this is an interesting story. And this is one of the this is one of the great things that keeps us podcasting is because as a lot, as a lot of you know, we have, we have had some internet issues, and we really haven't taped much over the last six weeks, but right before the crash, you know, deal you came on and we talked to her and you know, getting things ready. And we even tried to come on and do the show, I think then it was just, we just didn't have the bandwidth to do that. And so anyway, we just like, Alright, we'll talk to you when we get this fixed. In the meantime, she sends us an email says, Hey, what do you know, my husband's gonna be in Austin. And coming up to Dallas for a side trip. Maybe we can get together. So anyway, we got together with him. We had an awesome time. Did a little countdown thing down in the stockyards. Got some good barbecue, walked around for a little bit and

 

Terry  03:05

made him get a long horn balloon. Yeah,

 

Roy Barker  03:07

we had to get like a balloon hat tied up. But anyway,

 

Terry  03:10

Miko is great.

 

Roy Barker  03:11

I think the point is that just you know, how lucky are we to be able to meet awesome guests from all around the world and who thought that you know, somebody that we talked to in Australia, you would have a husband in in Texas that we could go out and hang out with her.

 

Terry  03:28

That was so fun. Now we got to get her.

 

Roy Barker  03:30

Yeah. Now that's our next step. Anyway, I digress. But I thought, you know, that's such an awesome story to tell that, you know, we don't interject that enough. I don't think that you know, what great people that we meet from all around the world, it's just it's

 

Terry  03:45

them face to face? Well, yeah, sort of indirectly.

 

Delia  03:49

I think it's, it's really funny, because I've met you, you know, as you said, the internet issues and so we never got the podcast really done. But I haven't really met you in person. And they My husband is really making areas and wonderful and that's only because technology has allowed us to do this. And then of course, some limited travel now.

 

Roy Barker  04:09

Right? Exactly, exactly. Like, we want to digress. I know we could be off on that for like I said for hours. And anyway, we want to get to talking about nutrition and let y'all kind of had a roadmap already lined out. I'm not gonna jump in. I'll let Terry let y'all lead into that.

 

Terry  04:27

Okay, um, where would you like to start? You want to talk about improving Well, on your on lighter, brighter you your website? You have an informative blog. Should we touch a little bit on that improving cognitive function? You want to go there a little bit first?

 

Delia  04:50

I think let me just explain how I got into nutritional neuroscience. That would be good. I think a lot of people go off and x psychologist, you know, what were you doing? So It was interesting for me because I was innopolis is dating me because it was more than 25 years ago, I was busy finishing my Master's in psych. And I was working with a group of really smart school kids who were really doing poorly at school. And my experimental group, these are the kids who were smart and doing poorly. I was doing an intervention with them, because I was curious about the psychological variables that led to the underachievement. And I was looking at what I could do and say, to help these children be focused and concentrate and study and make their parents and teachers breathe a sigh of relief. And I had a questionnaire that I gave to both the experimental group and the control group who were the smart kids doing well. And I had a little bit of extra space on the questionnaire. And you know, fate is a very funny thing and destiny. Because in that space, I asked them a question. I said, What is your favorite food? And the answer was really astonishing. Because every single one of the children in the experimental group loved some form of junk food. And the children in my control group were the opposite. You know, they were interested in Sunday lunch, or you know, roast roast chicken, and maybe veggies and salads and so on. They didn't focus on junk food. And it's very seldom in research that you come across such a clear distinction. No. So I was really stuck, because I couldn't really write that up into my thesis, because it wasn't part of what I was looking at. I was looking at psychological variables, not, you know, nutritional physiological variable. So I wrote my thesis, I've made a short mention of that. And then thought, Well, I'm going to take a break now and examine this whole nutrition and the brain story, because I was just about to have my daughter. And I thought, I'll take a bit of a break and check it out. And as I say, destiny and fate are weird things. Because after I dived into the subject, which 25 years ago was not a big subject. And there were only a few researchers around the world examining this, I realized that I didn't want to be a talking therapist anymore. I didn't want to look at ways to get people to change their lives when their brain wasn't functioning optimally. Because the bottom line is really very clear that thinking and behavior change. And everything that we do between our ears, happens across this huge network that's made up of cells, and chemicals, and membranes and molecules, all of which rely on lifestyle choices, primarily nutrition, to keep it all going. So for now, I need to really check this out and see how it works. So I thought to myself, well, it'll take me a couple of months. And I'll understand what this is all about. And, you know, 25 plus years later, you're right, I'm still learning. But I think what my mission is, is to explain to people like when their brain is functioning really well, because it's well fed, it's a whole lot easier to live a good life, because you make better decisions. When our brain is functioning optimally, you know, you're in a better mood, you think more clearly, you can be more creative, you have more energy naturally. And obviously, your brain ages really well, which is what we all want. So that that is my mission to explain to people, but the challenge has been, you know, I'm basically teaching prevention, and most people want cure. And the challenge with the brain is that it is functioning and trying to work optimally in sub optimum conditions for 95% of the population. And it does all these fancy and clever workarounds. So that we only realize that the brain has degraded 20 to 25 years after the degradation starts, oh, wow, most of the brain sophistication. So I'm really in a difficult spot, because I'm teaching prevention, and most people want to cure. But yeah, so that that's basically the foundation of where I started and why I didn't want to be a talking therapist anymore. For me, it was, I felt like it actually wasn't being honest, because I wanted people to first nourish their brains optimally before they could actually start looking at behavior change.

 

Terry  09:18

And that makes it makes a lot of sense. And, but because people want to just throw pills, they just want something to eat, they want medication, whatever to fix something but if they look at it in a more holistic manner, and and if they start now, it's never too late to start, right and then they can

 

Roy Barker  09:40

stop. That's what I was just sitting here thinking now our boat might have sailed. So

 

Delia  09:47

I think the most wonderful thing about the brain is that it is very receptive to when you start giving it what it needs. And we definitely now know that even people that have got Alzheimer's if they follow a very strict protocol can reverse some of the damage. So there are researchers out there who are investigating that at the forefront. But it is so much better to practice prevention. And the sooner we do it, the better because you know, when's the best time to start? Well, yesterday would have been better, but today is just as good is just as good. Well,

 

Roy Barker  10:19

that's the problem is that, you know, I'll speak for me that part of my problem is, you know, when you're young, and maybe some things are not right, your your body adjust, and it's not a big deal, it doesn't drag you down, like it does in your old age. So we tend to think, you know, we're bulletproof for, I'll get that under control tomorrow, you know, I've got another day. And, you know, even I'm sure people that smoke a lot and drink a lot. It's like, you know, I feel pretty good today, I can, you know, smoke for a little bit longer, and then I promise I'll quit or drinking. And the reality is that, no, we need to take these practices from childhood, because I think it's something that you've mentioned, of course, but I think this too, is that nourishment is so important to the education of our children. And not only eating correctly, but in the sad thing is, in some cases, eating at all. And you know, that kind of the pandemic shaunda really bright light on that is that a lot of our school districts had to continuing to serve meals, because that was where a lot of children, that's the only meal that they had. So I know that's a whole different subject. But you know, the reality is, it's never really too early to get into this. And as parents, we should always be, you know, a lot more conscious about our children and what they eat, because of the learning ability at that time, but also habits and then that, you know, we carry these bad habits into our age to our older age.

 

Terry  11:49

And Delia knows because she bred some very smart children married a very smart man and very smart kids.

 

Delia  12:00

Well, I think that's a funny way of saying it, but I think it's kind of like, fate was on the side as well, because as I discovered all these things, I started implementing them. And so my children definitely benefited from that, because research suggests very clearly that your child will reach their genetic potential, the intellectual genetic potential, if the brain is optimally fit, if it's not optimally fit, then I can't reach that intellectual potential, which is a very sobering thought and for parents that really care about their children, you know, you want your child to maximize their capacity to be fulfilled. And one of the ways we do that is by making sure our brain functions well, so, Roy, your comment about habits, of course, if you start out, you know, when you're young, and you learn all these good habits about feeding your brain and your body really well, then you don't have to break bad habits later on. Right, the breaking of the bad habits, that becomes really challenging, because there's also some research to suggest that children's taste buds develop in the first seven years of life. Wow. So if that's the case, then to change those taste buds. When children are older, then seven becomes so much more challenging. So it's really good to catch them when they young to just get them to embrace the kinds of foods that support them across a lifetime.

 

Roy Barker  13:20

Yeah, so let's talk about that for a minute about feeding our brains. The I guess, intuitively, we just know, preservatives, fast foods, I guess, sometimes high carbs, high sugars, things like that are not good. But let's talk about what is good. I mean, what what really nourishes our brain and what feeds it to help us to maximize that.

 

Terry  13:46

It's a great question, right? Yeah, sorry, Terry. I said in a nutshell, excuse me.

 

Delia  13:52

It's an important question. And it's obviously the answer is huge. So I'm going to break it down into a few important things. And the first one is the fats and oils that we consume. Now, this was a big surprise to me. But when I discovered that 60% of the dry weight of the brain is made up of fat, I was really quite fascinated by that. Because that meant to me that I had to find out a lot about fats and oils. Because of that 60% between 20 and 25% needs to come from a fat that our body cannot make. That means it's got to come from our diet. And even if a nutrient has to come from our diet, it is called an essential nutrient. It means the body can't make it. So these are essential fatty acids, we talking about omega six and omega three and we'll unpack them in a moment. The other two categories of fats are saturated fats, and mono unsaturated fats, and the body can make saturated fats and mono unsaturated fats would use where The whole low fat diet catastrophe came in. Because when food was devoid of any fat, but had a lot of carbs in it, and a lot of refined carbs, for example, refined sugar, what happened was that too much of that actually gets converted into saturated fat in the body. So scientists didn't realize that when they put the low fat diet into place, everyone, but oh, well, that's fine, we can eat carbs until the cows come home. But guess what? excess carbs are stored as fat. So that's how the body makes saturated fat and also mono unsaturated fat. But omega six and omega three are completely different, we have to get them from our diet. And unfortunately, 95% of the population is deficient in these fats. And that's a huge problem. Because without these fats in the brain, specifically, the brain can't function optimally. Now, the question that most people ask me at this point, so I'll preempt both of you. The question is, why are these facts so important? And the reason they're so important is because of the critical role they play in the cell membrane in the neuronal membrane. So we'll talk about the brain year, but you just need to keep in mind, excuse the pun, that these fats do exactly the same kind of job in the rest of the body as well. It's just that in the brain, the functioning is even more important, because of the sophistication and sensitivity of to how the neurons communicate with each other. So if you can imagine a cell membrane, that cell membrane needs to be extremely flexible and malleable, to be able to communicate optimally with its neighbor, and to be able to send the electrical impulse, the electro chemical impulse that neurons communicate with to the next neuron really quickly and really efficiently. If the cell membrane is made up of lots of saturated fats, then it's less flexible, it's less malleable, it's less able to respond very quickly. And so the message doesn't get to the next neuron and the next one, and the next one as efficiently. So those omega three and omega six fats are very, very specific in the molecular structure, that molecular structure will determine how efficiently the neuronal membranes will function. And from that everything else stems. Because it's not just the neurons that need that correct mix of fats. It's also the actual organelles inside the cells, like the mitochondria. And everything else that lives inside the cells, he also needs a layer of fat to be able to keep it intact. So those essential fats are critical for brain function. When we speak about what they do in the body, they do an enormous amount of things in the body as well. immunity, metabolism, blood pressure, growth and development, the list goes on and on. And interestingly, you know, when when I love the name of your podcast, I think it is the funniest and most unique and, and cute name. You know, when we speak about weight loss, without these essential effects, we have two problems. These fats help the genes that switch on fat burning to be switched on. And they talk to the genes that organize fat storage, and turn them off. So if you think about those two things, those essential fats, make sure that your metabolism kicks up and works really efficiently and that you don't store fat as efficiently. So when people start consuming these correct fats, they suddenly have more energy. Number one, because they mitochondria is now functioning optimally, their metabolism is working faster, it deals with cravings, because your cravings are reduced when you've got these the right amount of these fats. And also you don't store fat as efficiently. So the function of these fats are came upon them. And they function in the body kind of by accident, because I was looking at the functioning in the brain. And I thought, Wow, we need these in our brain. And then I realized when I looked at more and more of the research, we need them every way. It's just that they lack in the brain is very, very noticeable when people look at brain function and brain development, but really, we need them everywhere. And as I said 95% of the population is deficient in these fats and oils. So that's a huge challenge because most of the fats that are available to us, you know, in those golden aisles at the supermarkets, most of those facts are unfortunately omega six fats, which are good if they're not processed, but the ones in the golden isles are pro syst harshly. And when those oils are processed, they are unfortunately filled with trans fats and other damaging fats. So you're getting the Omega six you need, but you're also getting damaged fats. And then you're not getting the omega three that you need to go with the Omega six, because the ratio between these two essential fats is critically important, we need more of the omega three than the Omega six, because the omega three is more involved in our metabolically active organs like our brain, our heart, our adrenal glands, and our reproductive organs. And omega six has other roles to play. But because of its molecular structure, it's not as active in those other metabolically active organs. So just to go back for a moment, what most people have in their diets today is lots and lots of omega six, because that is used for fried food. It's used, you know, for salad dressings, it's used for making, you know, biscuits and cakes, because that's what people have gotten used to using. And people have not enough omega three. So it's a complex conversation when I give a lecture on fats and all the tests over three hours. So I'm giving you the Cliff's notes here, you know, just the the base summary, but it's extremely important for people to understand that these essential effects are critical for us to thrive. So what are some sorry,

 

Terry  21:27

what are some examples of omega three?

 

Delia  21:33

theory, there's some great examples of omega three, flax seeds are high in omega three as our chia seeds. And green leafy vegetables are also high in omega three. And these are the plant forms of omega three, when most people speak about omega three, they speak about fish oil. And fish oil contains d, h, a and EPA, which if you can think about it this way, they are derivatives of the plant based forms. So the body gets the plant based forms and then converts them into DHS and EPA. Or if you eat cold water, fish, or use solar fish oil tablets, you get the DOJ and the EPA directly. But it is not a good choice to do that. Because that fish oil has to be processed at very, very high temperatures, to be able to get the heavy metals, the PCBs, all the other toxins that the fish now contain out of them. And the best and the cheapest way to get those toxins out of the fish oil is to heat that all up to a very high temperature. But this is the sticky part with omega six and omega three oils that do not like light, heat and oxygen. So the minute they exposed to the to those elements, they start degrading. And then they will have things like trans fats and polymerized fats and sacklers fats inside them. So when people swallow fish oil, they're not aware of the fact that although the fish oil manufacturer will say on the bottle, triple refined, and the user will think that's great, nothing bad in it, they don't realize that sneakily unfortunately, those products now contain other damaged compounds, because of the harsh processing. So that's a little bit complicated for people to get their head around. But the bottom line is this, if you consume enough of the plant based forms of omega three and omega six, which I'll say where they found in a moment, if you can consume enough of those plant based forms, and you have enough vitamin C, B, three B six, zinc and magnesium in your diet, then the body naturally knows how much of that plant based form to convert into the DHS and the EPA, it will do it automatically. It's been doing it since the beginning of time. And it can still do that. But visual manufacturers tell people Oh no, it can't do that. It only does it add between 2% and 5%. But that's actually the percentage that the body wants to make. In in each go if I can put it that way, because then it's fresh, and it uses it where it needs to use it. If any body that's listening, and maybe either of you had ever gone into hospital, what I now ask people is are you on any supplements, or any of them maybe fish oil, and if that's the case, it's a problem, because if people are on fish oil, they can bleed out, because it makes your blood so thin because I've got too much THC and epi in them. But if you have plant forms, then your body knows how much to make and how much you know is required. So that's quite a long answer. I'm sorry.

 

Roy Barker  24:58

No, no that just um Because we probably over supplement and I know I take, you know quite a bit of fish oil every day. So I'm just going to, after we get through, run over to the cabinet and throw that in the trash and be done with it, wow. But

 

Terry  25:11

we also, I mean, if we do smoothies and we try to we try to do more of them, we do add flaxseed and chia and spinach, or kale.

 

Roy Barker  25:21

And I think to reinforce your message, I don't want to jump ahead of you. But this just gets back to the fact that we just talked about wanting to take a pill to cure thing. So yeah, we want to take a pill to cure all of our deficiencies in our poor eating habits. And so instead, let's get back to the basics and eat a good well rounded diet. And, you know, the other thing I think that really helps us is choosing a, an app to track this stuff for you. And I'll let you comment on this. But you know, there's an app that you can put all this in, that'll tell you the macronutrients and the one that we use actually has at the bottom, there's like four or five different combinations, the omega three and omega six just happens to be one and it's got a little dial, they'll tell you too much three too much snakes, you know, and it tries to put you right in the middle.

 

Delia  26:16

I think Yeah, there were a few things just to mention there, Roy, I think we do actually need to supplement three and omega six we do. And I discovered the supplement that I recommend to people and that we've been using for 25 years 25 years ago. So it's a supplement that combines the plant forms of omega three and omega six in the right ratio that's in the favor of two to one favor of omega three. But it's actually processed in a factory that Michael actually went and had a look at, that makes sure that light heat and oxygen don't damage the oils. So it's, in other words, it's made with health in mind, not profit in mind, right. And it's a fantastic product and are recommended to people you know, when I stand in front of an audience or I do a workshop, I actually get them to taste this product. So I do believe in supplementation, but evidence based supplementation. And because I know how to read labels, I know what's a good product and what isn't, and also how it's made, specifically the fats and oils. So that is definitely important. As far as an app goes, if people find that an app supports them, in terms of the micronutrients and macronutrients and how much they're consuming, then I think it's a wonderful tool to use. But if you don't have time, and you're not bothered to do that, when you eat a plant based diet, which I know we'll touch on in a little while, again, Roy, when we eat mostly a plant based diet, you know, what is our q? r Q is how we feel, if we satisfied after a meal, if we have enough energy, you know, to get through a day, and we feel sharp and clear. If our weight is the way that we wanted to be. And if the way we eating is sustainable, then that's a way to know that you're getting all your macronutrients and your macronutrients, so an app can help you to get to that place. But maybe it isn't the thing to rely on forever. Yeah. Because the way we feel physically and mentally should be the best guide to how well we are feeding ourselves and moving and meditating and supporting ourselves in other ways. I think, you know, technology can definitely support us. But I think relying on technology, because I know somebody, for example, who's got this little thing that she puts on her arm. And it will tell her when her body battery is running low. So she'll wake up in the morning. And she also obviously didn't sleep well, because my body battery isn't isn't well, and I'll say to bed, how do you feel like you slept? How do you feel, this person can no longer distinguish between how she really feels, and what her little device is telling her. So I just warn people, you know, that's just the psychology of technology, that it can sometimes override our own common sense. And that's something that we need to guard against. I mean, just for example, in winter, we want to eat more comforting foods, that would seem to be more fattening. But then when summer comes, we dropped those foods and we may drop a kilo or two, and that's perfectly fine as well. So I think we just need to keep the balance there between you know, is technology serving us or how do we actually feel because I think ultimately that's the thing that really matters the most?

 

Roy Barker  29:31

Yeah. So back to the omega threes and sick that the plant based supplement you were talking about is that easy to find. Is that something that or do we have to look hard for it or how could we acquire them? What is it

 

Delia  29:45

it's not hard to find at all you'll find that in any home health food store or any sprouts store. I hope I'm using that name correctly. I think there is a sprouts in America and it will be in the refrigerated section so it will be in the fridge It will be kept cold, it's in a dark box, it's in a dark bottle. And it's nitrogen flushed, which means that nitrogen is put into the bottle before the oil is put into it. So there's no oxidation that happens to that product at all. And it's a product that I'm very happy to recommend. And I'll give you the details. So you can put them in the show notes.

 

Roy Barker  30:20

Yeah, Yeah, that'd be great. Okay, yeah, cuz we're in because, you know, we need to, if this fish oil is probably not suiting us, but may actually be, you know, damaging to us, we need to quit doing that. We'll switch over to this so good. Anyway, sorry. Before we move too far from this, too, I want to talk about the fats, the low fat, because, you know, my career has mostly been dealing with the elderly in some manner. And so, you know, we had Alzheimer's has gone off the scale, I think we read the other day, 6 million Americans are suffering from some form. And there was a study, it was one. One person, it's not a study, one person tried this, they, they they ended up doing some longitudinal studies that I haven't really heard results. It hasn't been that long, though, since this happened. But anyway, so there's a test for Alzheimer's, it's the clock test, basically, you draw a circle on a piece of paper, the person you are testing puts is supposed to number one through 12, around the outer parts. And typically, what you will see with Alzheimer's patients is the numbers will be either backwards or they'll be crazy. This one person that we're talking about in Florida, have his numbers are all down around the six, everything was just all piled down there. So his wife, I don't know, I don't remember the backstory. But somehow she started feeding him one, tape mill spoonful of coconut oil three times a day. Now you have to be careful because it's hot klore. But you know, he had other issues. So they did it. And within about six weeks, he was able to get pretty dang close with this clock face. And so anyway, made me think, was this low fat craze that we had in the 70s. And in the 80s, some root cause of what we're seeing now, and I've read some research and, and it feels like that it was, you know, nobody can be totally conclusive. But I think that they felt evidentiary wise that there's a pretty good linkage between that and I can, I don't want to take up a lot of time talking about that. But I feel like it's important because it gets back to this thing. decisions that we make today can catch up with us in 20 3040 years in ways that we really never thought possible.

 

Delia  32:52

Absolutely. Right. And it's a very good point. And I'm glad you brought this up. Because the truth of the matter is a Brian that is the product of the rock cons effect, will end up becoming unable to function optimally. So the low fat diet was put into place by researchers who didn't understand the complexity of fats and oils in the diet, which is the most complex aspect of nutrition, we can speak to the fact that the coconut oil helped, because obviously, his brain was not incapable of using carbohydrates as a source of energy, which is the brain's natural and preferred source of energy. But if the neurons become incapable of using that form of energy, the body can actually convert saturated fat from, for example, coconut oil into something called ketones, which the brain can use as a source of energy. So this is something that researchers are getting more involved in to find out if that actually works for the brain that is not functioning well like a dementia brain. And they're finding that it is the case, it seems to be the tendency, but it's only when the brain becomes incapable of using carbohydrates that that seems to be useful or otherwise, if the whole body goes into keto Genesis, then the brain is forced to use ketones as a form of energy, whether that's sustainable or not. There is no evidence to support that, whether it's good for the body long term, some danger points there as well. So yes, helpful when the brain is already degraded, not as a lifetime sustainable option.

 

Roy Barker  34:27

Okay. Yeah, look, I don't want to derail you if you are kind of, you know, going in order, but that kind of transitions nicely into, you know, the keto and keto genix and then Leo and yeah, and then also, you know, plant based, it's like, there's so much stuff swirling out there. And, you know, I'll just keep it brief, but give you my story. You know, a few years ago, I did the I didn't really do strict keto. I just tried to really fight to keep my carbs. About 40 a day 40 to 60 was the range that, you know, my doctor had told me to stay in. And, you know, I had pretty good luck with it. But then after a while, and I never really got into the, the ketogenesis part. But after a while I heard, you know, bad things that, that so much protein can be hard on you. And the other thing I think it was worth mentioning is that you, it's not like a protein fest just eat all you want, because you have to watch your limits, because from what I've heard, the body is smart enough, after a while, if it doesn't have the carbs, that it will start turning proteins into glucose or you know, something like that, then that makes it hard on your organs as well. So again, we just get back to, you know, all the stuff that's out there, we are doing more plant based, which means for us, we can still eat meat, we just limit that meat and try to you know, make sure we're getting proteins from our beans and things like that. And, you know, then we heard a story about us being omnivores, you know, like, the carnivores have sharp teeth, and a shorter or longer digestive system. True plant based animals have different teeth, and either the longer shorter, so we are truly from what I've heard, you know, we're truly somewhere in the middle. But again, it's there's so much information on the keto. There's information on both sides. So help us help help us sort that sort all this stuff out.

 

Delia  36:47

It's a really interesting thing. Because the longer that I've been in this field, the more I see, you know, all these different dietary protocols come out and people swear, this is the one for me, and this is the one for me. So I'm always curious, firstly, about the kind of personality that looks at this Doc, because Okay, this one is going to work. So we can unpack that a little bit later, maybe. But the bottom line is this, the only evidence based diet that has been examined in enough detail and depth to show its long term sustainable efficacy, in terms of health, physical and mental is the Mediterranean diet. That's the only diet that has been studied. Now that's a diet that is very much plant based. And then with meat on top of it. Okay, so that's the first thing to keep in mind. The second thing to keep in mind with all these different approaches, and for example, we can take keto and paleo as the examples. They are cutting out major food groups. So what some people have done, they've tweaked them to make them a little bit better in some ways. But let's take paleo first, for example. You know, the Paleo people will tell you that we used to live on meat in the olden days when we ran across the savanna and killed animals with glee and reckless abandon. The truth of the matter is that that's not the case. We actually used to hunt animals in small groups, not all the time, because hunting animals was hard work. And it also was dangerous. If someone got hurt, they didn't quickly have a penicillin injection to give them and say, Hey, make you right now. So hunting, wasn't this, this glorified wonderful activity that was continuously engaged in, we did eat meat, which is why we've evolved to need b 12, and iron and zinc, which comes from animal products. But we did not live on them continuously. Maybe some groups of people did, but then they were deficient in many nutrients that we that they weren't consuming at that point in time. So you know, the Paleo people will cherry pick research to support their view, but it doesn't. It isn't supported long term with solid robust evidence. The second thing about a ketogenic diet, once again, the focus is on fat, a lot of its saturated fat, unless it's tweaked, it doesn't contain essential fats. And you know, we've just discussed how essential essential fats are because we have to get them from our diet, our body can't make them. So that's the first thing about the ketogenic diet. The second thing about the ketogenic diet is that it does put extra stress on the body's organs. And that is just because it's not a natural way for us to eat. Whenever we eat in a way that isn't natural. There will be some kind of fallout from a physiological perspective, because the body has to not adjust itself. Things like gluconeogenesis ketogenesis, all these things have to be adjusted. So now the body has to work differently. So under certain circumstances, the ketogenic diet is useful for type two diabetes and for cognitive decline. Those are the two top of mind But for the rest of the population, if you can't lose weight following mostly a Mediterranean style diet, then you're going to be compromising your body in some way. And also brain function. Because the Mediterranean diet, as I said, is also been studied in relation to mental health. And it's very robust that that kind of diet really support mental well being. So that's just those two diets. Another one that a lot of people are now trying and and people are talking a lot about is intermittent fasting. Now, intermittent fasting is interesting, because there's more of a focus on when not to eat, versus what to eat. Once again, you know, throwing the baby away with the bathwater in a sense, because if your focus is entirely on when not to eat, and you're eating, whatever, in the time that you can eat, we're still not going to be getting the nutrients that you need. So some people have tweaked that diet. And I suppose in a sense, I'm one of those people because ask are eating at seven o'clock at night latest, and then I'll only eat at seven o'clock the next morning or a little later. So that gives me a good 12 hours of not eating. And that is probably normal. Considering the way we evolved, some people want to stretch that to 14 or 15 hours, I said, that's fine. However, you also have to be considering what you eating. And if you're very stressed, it can actually add more stress to your life. Because when your body registers that it's hungry, it's actually your brain registering, you actually increase cortisol. And we don't want to be doing that because cortisol does a lot of negative things in the body and brain. So I'll always suggest to people, if they're looking at doing intermittent fasting, do it, do it overnight for the 12 hours, because that gives your gut a wonderful break, which it needs from constantly working. But try not to stretch it much longer than that if you're experiencing chronic stress.

 

Terry  41:55

So that's a little summary of the main diets and the pitfalls. And that's what I mean, we did intermittent fasting, where we would eat at 12pm, we wouldn't eat in the morning, we would eat at 12pm 7pm. And then we wouldn't eat again until 12pm the next day. So 12 and seven.

 

Roy Barker  42:16

The thing about that though, is it breakfast is, you know, one of my meals that I really like and the other thing that we started kind of tweaking that was doing, you know, like a smoothie in the morning and you know, with the kale or spinach and then protein powder and the flax seed and you know, it's a healthy one, but I just feel like I need something in the morning.

 

Delia  42:41

Well, you're not unusual because it is basically a fast that your body has been under all night, you know, and for most people blood glucose dips in the morning. And when your blood glucose dips, it sends a saw a signal, you know, your brain says Hold on a second food is required, you know, you have been without food for a long time, you need to get blood glucose up. So that feeling partly habit, but very much based on the physiology that you experience when you get up in the morning. So what are you doing now? How have you How have you adjusted that? Are you having your smoothie and then eating at 12?

 

Roy Barker  43:16

Yes, yeah, typically, that's it's been a lot. It's been a rough couple of weeks.

 

Terry  43:22

And see, always have these two and really don't look, I think,

 

Roy Barker  43:28

right now I was just gonna say that, you know that I think what I would like to do is have that smoothie in the morning, you know, eat at 12 eat at five, six or seven and then not eat again to the next morning because, again, it's my I think it's my one of my downfalls is not only the food I eat, but wanting to eat at nine or 10 o'clock at night, you know, and then go to bed. And yeah, eat bad stuff at nine or 10 at night.

 

Delia  43:53

No, they there are a few things just just to comment on that. The first thing is that a lot of people want to snack in the evening, and that becomes a habit. And so you have to work on not not doing that. However, when your blood glucose is more stable and you have enough of the essential effects your cravings will reduce, because they've done some research and I know only wrote in research, but it's very optimistic in relation to if we can translate it. When rats are the product of essential fats, they need more sweet foods in their diet, they crave more sweet foods, but when they've got enough essential fatty acids they don't so that's the one thing to keep in mind. So that may shift when you start consuming the right essential fatty because you won't have the your blood glucose will be more stable firstly and your cravings will be reduced. The second thing that you mentioned you know laughingly about don't ask what we're doing now. I think one of the things that happens to people and I see it and it disturbs me is because you know they start a particular way of eating and then they want to stick to that all the time. And when they don't they get distressed and they go back to the way they used to eat. And I always encourage people to Don't, don't do that. Just look at how far you've come. And you know, you might have a day or a week or 10 days where things just go pear shaped, we all know that love can do that to us, the longer we live, the more we are aware of that. And we just have to have some compassion and some kindness, you know, so I'm not eating the way I'm really wanting to eat, but I'm getting back to it. And these are all the things that I've already included that are different and better. And pat on the back for me. I see a lot of people that that really are too hard on themselves. And yeah, so that's just a thought, Yeah. Can

 

Terry  45:39

you just kind of want to throw up your hands and say, Okay, well, I'm, I haven't eaten how I wanted to for a week, two weeks, whatever. And then it's like, I can't do it, I can sustain it.

 

Roy Barker  45:51

And it's funny, like, I used to have a lot of willpower, but seemed like, older age, I don't know if it's because you you just the way that you've survived, and it's like I deserve it, or it's a reward. But it's like, man, I used to have a lot of willpower to stay away from that stuff. And now I mean, not so much it doesn't even take bamboo shoots under the finger. Now before I start, like a I must I have that candy bar.

 

Delia  46:18

It's a, it's a really good point, right, because I think one of the reasons people snack at night is because of something called decision fatigue. And decision fatigue is something that happens in the brain as the day progresses. So you know, you mentioned willpower, there's actually quite a lot of interesting research about willpower and decision fatigue. So it's like when you wake up in the morning, you've got a lot of willpower. So I always suggest to people, if you want to start a new habit started in the morning, because your brain is still fresh. as the day progresses, your brain loses energy, and becomes less capable of making decisions that serve you. So for example, the prefrontal cortex is like the CEO of the brain, and it's the one in charge. But it runs out of energy very much earlier in the day, then the rest of the brain because he doesn't have any automatic workarounds. And this is the inhibitory part of the brain. This is a brain that will say, Roy, don't open that cupboard, because what's in there isn't good for you. But by eight o'clock at night, it's offline, it's not functioning. So then the brain does something interesting. It does one of two things. In fact, it does a knee jerk activity or behavior. So that's just habitual, just does it because it's a habit. So that's probably what's happening to you. The other thing it does, it does nothing. It just stops. And that happens in certain circumstances where cognitive capacity is required, but not in situations where your habit is being, you know, fulfilled. So that's something to keep in mind you calling it willpower, but it's actually something to do with the brain running out of energy. Because this is not just the most sophisticated part of the brain, the PFC, it's also the most energy demanding part of the brain, so it runs out of energy earlier in the day. So you need to, there are a few things you can do, you can actually get rid of everything that's in that cupboard that's bad. and replace it with some things that still taste really yummy with the right mouthfeel. So there must have fat in them, they must have some sweetness in them, and they must have a bit of protein in them. Because if you can fall for full bet, your mouthfeel is still satisfied, but you know, psychologically, you're not eating the bad stuff anymore. And then slowly over time, you can wean yourself from even net, but having the bad cupboard at 9pm at night is not a good

 

Roy Barker  48:43

now, it's definitely not I know him took a little break there

 

Terry  49:00

too much for our lightning.

 

Roy Barker  49:04

I think it's our we're okay, I'm holding that word. Okay, cuz I can still see you. We're gonna just talk, talk amongst ourselves for just to give you a chance to come back. There, she went off, maybe she'll come back. Well, that's good to know. So we need to, we're gonna, when we get offline, we're gonna sit down and restructure, and we're gonna

 

Terry  49:24

clean out the pantry. Well,

 

Roy Barker  49:26

I'm not sure about that. But we need to look at some things that we do and maybe try to rearrange again, something that's no easier. We need to really check these. This omega three and omega six. Oh

 

Terry  49:39

my gosh, I wanted rid of definitely want to get that. Oh, there she is. Something happened.

 

Roy Barker  49:46

Yeah, that's okay. We were just talking amongst ourselves. And there you are. Well, so just one more thing. We're running away long. I know. Appreciate your time. You've just

 

Terry  49:58

sat in line again. Yeah. We'll do this in

 

Roy Barker  50:00

section but just like for somebody like myself, I guess, you know, with type two diabetic and with my with it being harder of late harder to control or get it to where I need it to be maybe better to make just a little bit of a shift to the keto for a while in order to get that down and then start transitioning back to more of the Mediterranean diet, would that be a sensible plan,

 

Delia  50:27

I think the first thing that I would do is just suggest you get the right essential fatty acids. So make sure you get the product and you start using that every day. If you feel a little bit nauseas in the beginning, just cut back a little bit because the liver still needs to incorporate all those fat molecules to be able to help it function optimally. So you can chat to me about that and I'll support you through that phase. Okay, the second thing to keep in mind is just cut back on the starches. So I know that starches are very satisfying, and they give us good mouthfeel. But just cut back on the starches a little bit, especially the watch starches. So don't have rice don't have white potatoes, but rather have some mullite or have some keen Wah and have sweet potatoes. And then make up the bulk of your food with things like broccoli, things like cauliflower, green leaves, lots of lovely dressings, nuts and seeds. In that way, you'll be getting much more of a of the effects with your diet. And when you do have meat, have it with lots of greens as well. If you have some eggs, have it with lots of greens. Try and focus more on that if you go towards the ketogenic, then what happens is you're going to get many more saturated fats. And the more saturated fats you eat, the more essential fats you've got to eat. So let's just focus on the essential facts for the next couple of weeks. If you do that, you'll find your your cravings will definitely go down your blood glucose will become more stable. Okay, there are a few things that may happen, you may suddenly feel that you've actually got some more energy. So don't take the oil at night. rather take it you know, with your smoothie and for lunch. And then you may just feel like you actually want to exercise a little bit more. And you're you thinking a little bit more clearly. I also say to people that they just need to keep in mind that those fats work from the inside out. So you will, your brain, your heart, you know your digestive system, your liver, your lungs, all of those organs, your adrenal glands, reproductive organs are going to get those essential fat first, and they're going to work their way out to your to your skin. So when your skin starts feeling smooth, and it starts feeling well lubricated and moist, and you don't need anything to keep your skin moist, then you know you've got those fats throughout your whole body. But that can happen in 18 months to three years. So we're not let's not jump ahead. It's a process that you know, just just think about, we've got all these trillions and trillions of cells, all of those little membranes need to now be become full of these good fats.

 

Roy Barker  53:08

Okay, awesome. And that I don't want to get Michael in trouble. But you know, when we when we were showing him around town, we have to say that we we said, Look, you need to try some desserts. And he he actually said, that's fine. You need to live it up right now. Because when you talk to Delia, when she gets over here, especially if things are going to be changing for you a whole lot. So

 

Terry  53:33

he said You and I were going to be

 

Delia  53:38

a look and he mustn't act like he's deprived. I'll make the best chocolate ice cream. Oh, oh my god, salted peanut butter. Ah, good into it. And I'm making mean chocolate mousse as well. And he's not a deprived person in any way, shape, or form. But I've just learned to tweak it. So Terry, I'm going to be very excited to get into the kitchen and we can do stuff together.

 

Terry  54:01

I am so there. I'm there already.

 

Roy Barker  54:05

Well, Delia, we appreciate your time. I know we've ran way long, but it's just such a good conversation. And it's just so many good facts that you know, trying to get all this sorted out with all the information that's out there. You know, like you said, people, you can find research to support just about anything, but you got to take back the whole body of research. They can chew Yeah, you got to take everything so it's good to get to know we're gonna go get this the omegas tomorrow, and we'll get on that and see. Cuz I would definitely love to be thinking clear and love to have more energy, that's for sure. make me happy.

 

Delia  54:44

It's waiting for you trust me, it will come.

 

Roy Barker  54:46

Okay. All right. Well, before we go do a couple things. For me. First off, what is a habit or a tool that you use every day? Something that you feel adds a lot of value to your life. Either personal or professional?

 

Delia  55:03

That's a really good question. I can think. I think there's certain things that I do every day that have become habits, okay. One of them is that I never look at my email or social media before I had my breakfast. Okay. So for me, you know, with Marco being, you know, in Austin now, say good morning to him, because it's his afternoon. Yeah. And then I'll send him a screenshot of how chilly it is. Yeah. And then he'll send me a screenshot of how chilly it is there. But, but generally speaking, I don't actually look at MMA, I don't look at any email, nothing. So I don't get my brain busy thinking about other stuff. The other thing that I do is I go for a walk at four o'clock every day, most days. It's about a 45 minute walk, I get my blood nasally up. And I don't listen to podcasts or anything else. I just walk and had like a silent meditation. That's something that I'll also do. So those are two things. And I think some of the things that are now do have become habits, but I don't think of them as habits anymore. So I can't really think of, of anything else that I do. Um, that's a good question.

 

Roy Barker  56:16

Well, we're good habit collectors anyway, but then, you know, also, we just like to put things out there that may resonate with people, and I'm going to try that because, you know, I'll usually listen to music Well, if it's me and Terry, we talk if it's just me, I usually have music or podcast go and so I think that may be something I could tweak for myself is to just use that for some meditation and you know, just listen to nature and take, give my brain a break, you know, that would

 

Terry  56:45

do your meditation there. And and we have to wrangle the dogs. Apparently, they're they're wanting to get in on this one.

 

Delia  56:53

Actually, I posted on my Instagram today about that thing about silence and the brain. But my mum's just mentioned to me water, that's something else that I'll make a habit of having every single day. Sometimes what I do when I've got work to do, and I've got a specific project that I'm busy with, I'll set my timer, not my phone time, because my phone is going off on set an old old fashioned Tomic to 15 minutes, and I'll work solidly for 15 minutes, and then for 10 minutes, I'll take a break, then I'll come back, and I'll set it for another 15 minutes. And that's how I get through projects that really need focus and concentration. So that's another habit.

 

Roy Barker  57:29

Yeah, I like that. I've heard that before. That way you can set that block out. It's not like you're saying, Hey, I'm never gonna answer my cell phone or my emails, but you've got a certain 10 minute window to do that. And that way you can focus on other stuff. Yeah, I do like that. Yes. All right, well, we'll go check out the blog, because they, you know that the other thing about losing the noise, is that's where our creative spot is, when we just can not have to be thinking about problems solving problems or things, we can just throw an Agia be with ourselves for a few minutes.

 

Delia  58:04

Absolutely, that's, that's part of the time that the prefrontal cortex can actually access all of our knowledge and our skills to come up with creative solutions. We're giving it a break, we're not giving it information that is going to sort through it then goes internally to find that creativity, which is fantastic point. Excellent.

 

Roy Barker  58:25

All right. Well, good enough, Terry do you have so I

 

Delia  58:26

was gonna I just wanted to make sure that we mentioned the names of your books, you want to go ahead and do that, that feed your brain? Yes. The first book is called feed your brain seven steps to a lighter, brighter you. And it does have some recipes in it. But it's basically the science of feeding your brain. So when people really want to know how it works, that's the book that they buy. My second book takes that science into my kitchen. And that's called feed your brain the cookbook. So that's the book that's got the decadent chocolate ice cream and source and the desserts. And you know, I use oils responsibly in that book without heating them. And I teach people how to do that. So those are the two books. Thanks for asking Terry.

 

Roy Barker  59:14

Yeah, you bet. So tell people how they can reach out and you know, how if how they could work with Who do you work with? What can you do to help them and of course, how they can reach out and get a hold of you.

 

Delia  59:28

People can find me at my blog, which is triple w.lby.life, which stands for lighter brighter you.life. They can find me on Instagram under the same name, and on Facebook, under the same name and on LinkedIn as Dr. Delia McCabe. They can also go to my blog and go and opt in to my newsletter that I send out every month or so about all sorts of different interesting things that are come across from a cognitive and nutritional perspective. And that way they can stay in communication with me. And I'm always giving little gifts like my favorite recipes and a little video about how to manage stress. So they get a lot of fun fun stuff when they subscribe.

 

Roy Barker  1:00:10

Okay, awesome. We'll go check that out. I want to be a subscriber. Yeah, we

 

Terry  1:00:13

didn't even get to touch on stress. I was so interested to talk about that, too. But well, yeah, we haven't spoken about that next time.

 

Roy Barker  1:00:20

We're holding that back for episode number two. That's right. We're gonna we're gonna get her to promise to come back and talk to us again. That way we could talk about female stress. I think that was the one that Southern was interesting, too. So thank you so much. Y'all go check Dr. Delia, you're out and see what she has to say sign up for the blog. It's a lot of great information. And we appreciate it very much. Got some things we're going to work on this week, already talked about while you were gone. We talked about we're gonna get together after this call, get our planning down and get on a good place. All right.

 

Delia  1:00:56

Thank you so much for the invite. I really appreciate that.

 

Terry  1:01:01

Saying so much.

 

Roy Barker  1:01:03

So that's gonna do it for us. Again, I'm your host growing and carry and you can find us at www.feeding fatty.com we're on all the major podcast platforms iTunes, Stitcher, Google, Spotify, all the major social media platforms probably spend more time on Instagram than any so please reach out if you're professional in this area. If you have a good story to tell, reach out. We'd love to hear it and get you on a future episode. The there will be a video of this interview that goes up when it goes live as well. So until next time, take care of yourself and take care of your health.

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