Through The Marketing Lens
99 episodes - English - Latest episode: about 1 month ago - ★★★★★ - 38 ratingsA podcast designed especially for creative female entrepreneurs who want to launch, grow and scale their businesses. We serve up real tips and tools that ACTUALLY WORK in the modern digital marketing world. Ultimately, profitable business comes down to a few key components: business foundation (what you do and who you are as a business), organization (streamlined processes, systems, etc.) and killer marketing strategies. Katrina Aronson, an entrepreneur turned business and marketing strategy coach, is showing up every single week with short and sweet episodes about what is working or not working for her business and her clients. You are welcomed behind the curtain of other business strategies. Once a month, Katrina will welcome another entrepreneur onto the podcast for an interview to get their insights and business tips. Our goal is to give you some golden nuggets to implement in your business, always looking through the marketing lens. Katrina has owned businesses -- brick and mortar and online -- and understands the things that work and the strategies that fall flat. More importantly, Katrina understands why! Working with dozens (and dozens) of women one-on-one in her business coaching and in partnership, her knowledge runs deep. Katrina wants to share that with you so your business can thrive and grow smoothly.
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Episodes
Seasons of Change: Embracing Your Journey in Business and Life
March 19, 2024 10:00 - 31 minutes - 21.6 MBAbout Today’s Episode: In today’s episode, we dive deep into the metaphorical seasons of both life and business, highlighting the unique journey female entrepreneurs face. From the fresh blossoms of spring, symbolizing the launch and early growth of a small business, to the reflective quiet of winter, where we pause and strategize for what's next, every season plays a crucial role in shaping a successful online business, service-based business, or consultancy. This discussion isn't just abo...
Creating Consistent Content for Your Brand
February 19, 2024 14:00 - 30 minutes - 20.9 MBAbout Today’s Episode: In today’s episode of TTML, your go-to podcast for female entrepreneurs on the rise, host Katrina Aronson, a seasoned marketing strategist, dives into the pivotal topic of creating consistent content for your brand. As we navigate the complexities of engaging the right audience and maintaining consistency without burnout, Katrina shares invaluable insights and strategies for restructuring and optimizing your content creation process. This episode is a goldmine for any...
Overcoming Imposter Syndrome: Real Talk for Female Business Owners
February 13, 2024 05:00 - 27 minutes - 18.6 MBAbout This Episode: In today’s empowering episode, we're addressing a common yet rarely discussed challenge among entrepreneurs: Imposter Syndrome. Our host, Katrina Aronson, delves deep into this psychological pattern, exploring how even the most successful business owners, including famous figures like Maya Angelou, have faced this daunting obstacle. This episode isn't just about understanding Imposter Syndrome; it's about equipping you with practical, actionable tools to overcome it. W...
Encore Episode: The Legal Guide to Your Business with Berkley Sweetapple
February 28, 2023 09:00 - 22 minutes - 15.6 MBWe are bringing back an encore episode all about the world of legal issues within your business with our guest, Berkley Sweetapple. Most business owners would agree that making sure their business is legally protected is a high priority but it's another story actually getting to that point. It’s one of the topics that many of us would like to avoid, but it can cost you in the future. The information in this episode will help you to make sure you and your business are protected! Regardless ...
The power of listening to yourself and prioritizing your own peace
February 21, 2023 09:00 - 4 minutes - 2.89 MBThis is not the typical weekly episode… but it’s a REAL one. Something I wish I would have been told years ago. We don’t have to do it ALL at the cost of our peace and sanity, sometimes the ball drops on the less important things. We have to learn it’s okay to choose ourselves and listen to our intuition, instead of just putting our head down and pushing through things while the rest of our life suffers. In this episode of Through The Marketing Lens, you will hear: Why I decided to “no...
Planning for your year: Success Strategy
February 14, 2023 09:00 - 25 minutes - 17.3 MBThere never seems to be enough time to get everything done, and it’s so easy to get wrapped up in constant hustle mode. If you are in a season of significant hustle and running out of time at every turn, this episode will help you a lot. This episode is the CORE of getting out of that hustle mode. You need to plan your year to STOP being in total reaction mode all the time. Getting out of that STARTS (does not end, but starts) with actually having a revenue plan, and from that plan, you get...
How to leverage your time using AI
February 07, 2023 09:00 - 13 minutes - 9.59 MBAs a business owner, you know just how many changes and updates you are faced with constantly. It can be exhausting, confusing, and stressful — to just keep up! I get it - but that’s why today I'm here to bring you the no-fluff info on AI! What is it, what do you need to know and how can we actually begin using it in your business. There’s so many different softwares and opinions on AI, but the fact is we can’t ignore these advances! Instead we need to take advantage of how we can use AI ...
Finding your way as an entrepreneur through spirituality with Candice Rasa
January 31, 2023 09:00 - 26 minutes - 18.2 MBIf you are not down with the woo, that's cool – skip this episode. But if you are even a bit curious or already super spiritually versed, this is for YOU. Spirituality is a big part of my life. I am not religious, but spirituality is about connection with self and God or the Universe. And the more I learn and connect with those things, the better my business gets. So, I'm interviewing Candice Rasa today, the founder of Rasa Healing, with 13 years of experience utilizing transpersonal, ex...
Marketing like Apple – What’s Different?
January 24, 2023 09:00 - 20 minutes - 14.2 MBReady to have your mind blown? I am going to share a case study that will do just that! We are going to learn how brands like Apple, Coke, Disney – how they have created brands that are just different. You are going to learn the key to their magnetic differences, and how to actually apply some of this to your brand throughout your marketing. What we know today is far more than we have ever known before because we have new tools to actually investigate – so not only listening to what peo...
2023 Marketing Trends: Going Deep - Part 2
January 17, 2023 09:00 - 21 minutes - 14.8 MBWe’re back with Part 2 of last week’s epic episode on building brand loyalty, so if you didn’t listen to ep 70 yet, stop what you are doing… go back and have a listen before pressing play on this episode! These four trends are so important in 2023 — like way beyond your tik tok strategy or tricks to grow your audience on youtube or wherever you show up! I’ve said it before and I'll say it again… While social media continues to matter, it is NOT the most important thing! And just to be clea...
2023 Marketing Trends: Going Deep - Part 1
January 10, 2023 09:00 - 26 minutes - 18.4 MBAs we enter into the new year, we are full steam ahead and have our plans mapped out for the year ahead. This makes it a great time to talk about trends in marketing that are well beyond social media planning or what platforms you need to be on. We are always thinking about those things, but what I really want to talk about is the trend of going deeper with brands specifically in your marketing. This episode is all about marketing trends for 2023 that will create more brand loyalty. We a...
How To Ease Your Social Media Overwhelm with Katie Love
December 27, 2022 09:00 - 40 minutes - 27.9 MBSocial Media can be so overwhelming for a business owner. Everything is constantly changing. What works today might not work tomorrow. So how do you know where even to start? I’m chatting with social media agency owner Katie Love, and she is sharing her top tips for getting results with your marketing efforts. These tips will jumpstart your confidence when it comes to social media. There are straightforward steps to take to start to see results! And one of the most critical factors is your...
6 Ways to Get More Comfortable on Video
December 20, 2022 09:00 - 18 minutes - 12.9 MBWe all know the importance of video content, but still so many of us still can’t show up because we are so fearful and uncomfortable with it. But the truth is it’s not just a feeling that comes without reason. In fact, your brain is keeping you safe by making you feel fearful. But have no fear… today we are going to talk about not only getting more comfortable on video and understanding why you have held yourself back for so long. Don’t believe me? Listen to the episode to find out how yo...
4 Marketing Tips for Growth in 2023
December 13, 2022 09:00 - 23 minutes - 16.1 MBTired of the noise when it comes to growth and marketing? There are a lot of things we can talk about when it comes to business growth and marketing – and the truth is it is only getting noisier. Everywhere we look there’s a new trend or method to try. Don’t get me wrong… I am ALL for dabbling in new ideas, and I am a guinea pig for new strategies. But those are not my main strategy. If I want to grow, I want a big part of my focus to be proven strategies first and foremost – and then we te...
It’s time to LET GO and Outsource to Scale!
December 06, 2022 09:00 - 36 minutes - 24.8 MBDo you struggle with letting go of doing ALL the things and not wanting to outsource anything... Because "nobody can do it like you." I get it… and it's a very COMMON struggle for entrepreneurs. But it's something that must happen if you want to scale your business and reach those massive goals you have! There's even psychology to back this up! Our subconscious does not want you to grow. It wants to keep us safe and comfortable. The subconscious mind is what causes us to self-sabotage an...
How to create success with ease using subconscious reprogramming with Jenna Holloway
November 29, 2022 10:00 - 37 minutes - 26 MBDo you feel like being successful has to be hard? It’s very common in the western society. We are taught that success is a direct result of how hard you work. But the truth is we have been sold a LIE! It doesn’t have to be that way…You CAN achieve success with ease by reprogramming the subconscious mind! I know, I know. That sounds a little woo-woo. But your subconscious mind is a very real and powerful thing, and it’s scientifically proven. Don’t believe me? Listen to the episode to f...
How Smells can affect your brand
November 22, 2022 10:00 - 13 minutes - 9.15 MBWhat does smell have to do with my brand? A LOT! There’s a lot of missed opportunities when it comes to tapping into the five senses of buyers within marketing. As you may already know from previous episodes, I look at marketing from a DIFFERENT perspective. I don’t just blindly watch and follow trends, I learn the psychology behind what’s working. And I always go a bit further into the brain-science behind it. The benefit of this is you will learn how to apply these strategies and establ...
How to Reframe Your Mindset Around The Recession For Growth
November 15, 2022 10:00 - 18 minutes - 12.5 MBAs a busy business owner, you know just how difficult it can be to deal with the looming “recession” on top of everything else you have going on. You face it daily via social media, the news, friends, and family. Let’s be honest. All of that negativity can be exhausting, overwhelming, and leave you feeling DOWN — especially when you don’t know how to PREPARE your business. The key to not letting the “recession” take you and your business out with it — is the ability to prepare, be strateg...
Black Friday - Are sales a good thing?
November 15, 2022 10:00 - 16 minutes - 11.5 MBYou’re probably wondering… Are sales even a good thing? Should I have flash sales, holiday sales? What about Black Friday sales? I get it, another decision to make as a business owner and surrounded by mixed advice! That’s where I come in to shift your perspective and share some facts on what works and what doesn’t when it comes to sales! We are diving deep into how to use sales to create scarcity in your customers and actually increase your brand's value! I know there’s a lot of advice o...
Black Friday - Are sales a good thing?
November 15, 2022 10:00 - 16 minutes - 11.5 MBYou’re probably wondering… Are sales even a good thing? Should I have flash sales, holiday sales? What about Black Friday sales? I get it, another decision to make as a business owner and surrounded by mixed advice! That’s where I come in to shift your perspective and share some facts on what works and what doesn’t when it comes to sales! We are diving deep into how to use sales to create scarcity in your customers and actually increase your brand's value! I know there’s a lot of advice o...
Quick Question For You
June 28, 2022 09:00 - 4 minutes - 2.84 MBThis mini-episode of Through the Marketing Lens is a quick update on our schedule for the summer. We're taking a short break, but you'll still be getting a few of our most loved episodes re-posted on here so you don't miss out on any juicy marketing tips! Season 3 will be back in September and better than ever! Until then, we'd like to hear from you: What content do you want to see in Season 3? What marketing, messaging, or mindset questions do you have? Who would you love to see as ...
Scaling vs. Growing a Business
June 21, 2022 09:00 - 21 minutes - 15 MBIn today's episode of Through The Marketing Lens, you will learn: Why most businesses end up failing before the ten year mark and the stats behind that The difference between GROWING and SCALING your business (no, they’re NOT synonyms) Actionable steps you can take NOW so scaling comes easy We’re talking about: Scaling your business effectively, rather than just growing Increasing your revenue while minimizing increases to your costs Two specific things to look at as beginning steps ...
What is Content Marketing?
June 14, 2022 09:00 - 12 minutes - 8.44 MBThis week on Through The Marketing Lens, we are re-sharing a highly-rated episode from 2021 all about content marketing. You will learn: What content marketing really is How content marketing will help your business Five different ways that you can implement content marketing into your overall marketing strategy We’re talking about: Content marketing as a strategy (AKA not just an occasional post on social media) Using podcasting, blogging, video content, social media graphics, and bo...
Attraction Marketing
June 07, 2022 09:00 - 11 minutes - 7.76 MBIn today's episode of Through The Marketing Lens, you will learn: What attraction marketing really IS How you can use it in your business to get more leads that convert Three essential components in the basic attraction marketing formula We’re talking about: What the "attraction" part of attraction marketing is all about Ways to provide value to bring in new leads and gain trust immediately Why storytelling is SO powerful in marketing and the psychology behind it The importance of s...
Getting on a Stage with Bettina Carey
May 31, 2022 09:00 - 27 minutes - 18.9 MBIn today's interview episode of Through The Marketing Lens, our guest Bettina Carey will be teaching us: Why getting on a stage is an incredible marketing opportunity for any business owner How to get over your fear of public speaking (OR learn to embrace that fear) Finding opportunities to speak in front of your ideal audience We’re talking about: Public speaking as a marketing strategy and why it works Bettina's story and how she got to where she is today The best advice for gettin...
Things People Don't Talk About As You Grow
May 24, 2022 09:00 - 17 minutes - 12 MBIn today's episode of Through The Marketing Lens, you will learn: The totally normal and common mindset blocks entrepreneurs face as their business starts to scale How to get out of the plateau phase that most businesses go through after the new biz buzz wears off Why you should stop comparing yourself to the people ahead of you We’re talking about: Why no one really talks about the ugly part of the process of scaling and growing your business The three directions I see business owner...
How to Stop Pushing In Your Business – and Connect With Your Audience
May 17, 2022 09:00 - 16 minutes - 11.5 MBIn today's episode of Through The Marketing Lens, you will learn: How to get out of the push, and instead get into a flow in your marketing Where the lack of connection with your audience comes from My step-by-step process to ensure the content you are creating will encourage connection with your audience WHILE keeping you out of "push mode" We’re talking about: Gaining clarity around what your audience wants from you and how to actually connect with them The science behind why we cra...
How to Become a Guest On Your Favorite Podcasts with Amela Shabich
April 26, 2022 09:00 - 44 minutes - 30.8 MBIn this week’s episode of Through The Marketing Lens, we’re speaking with Amela Shabich all about becoming a guest on other’s podcasts in order to reach new audiences and grow your business. Amela started a PR agency that helps passionate entrepreneurs get onto the podcasts that they are most interested in and aligned with. Amela is sharing incredible tips and practical advice for pitching yourself as a valuable guest and sharing your story authentically to attract your ideal clients. We’...
The ONE Thing That Matters Most Right Now
April 19, 2022 09:00 - 19 minutes - 13.2 MBIn today's episode of Through The Marketing Lens, we’re talking about client experience and how to elevate yours in order to stand out from the crowd. Whether you have a product or service based business, your customer's experience is the most important part of what keeps people coming back to you. We’re going over: Why your customer's experience is so important, now more than ever How to figure out the ways that you can stand out from the crowd User-generated content: what it is and why...
The Hardest Part of Growing My Business
April 12, 2022 17:00 - 46 minutes - 31.8 MBIn this week's episode of Through The Marketing Lens, I’m walking you through the hardest parts of launching and growing my business, and sharing the mistakes I made along the way that will help you in your own journey. We’re talking about: How I got my start as an entrepreneur and my background in finance, fashion, and social work Finding value in your past experiences, even if it seems unrelated to your dreams Feeling like you’re running out of time or falling behind on your plans U...
Is It Time To Raise Your Rates?
April 05, 2022 09:00 - 25 minutes - 17.6 MBIn today's episode of Through The Marketing Lens, we're going over an often scary but exciting transition in every entrepreneur's journey... RAISING YOUR PRICES. This is something that pretty much everyone struggles with at some point so we're diving into how to know if it's the right time, and how to do it well. We’re talking about: Signals to pay attention to and how to know if you're ready to raise your rates Mindset struggles that are holding you back or preventing you from upleveling...
Human Design and Business with Luscious Hustle
March 29, 2022 09:00 - 1 hour - 47.5 MBFor today’s interview episode of Through The Marketing Lens, we're talking all about Human Design with Laura Milne and Betsy Milne, two friends that started the brand and podcast Luscious Hustle. Human Design is a combination of modern science and ancient practices like astrology that come together to give you a very personalized guide to living optimally. Laura and Betsy dive into the basics and beyond in this episode. We're talking about: - how Laura and Betsy met and how Luscious Hustle...
Strategies to Boost Instagram Story Views
March 09, 2022 10:00 - 17 minutes - 12 MBFor today’s episode of Through The Marketing Lens, we're talking about Instagram stories and my best tips for increasing views and engagement. Most entrepreneurs are aware that showing up on stories is super important for growth on social media. The majority of people prefer watching stories over scrolling through posts, and it’s an amazing way to build connection with your audience and improve engagement. I’m giving you eight practical techniques you can use to start seeing an increase i...
Building Community Within Your Brand
February 22, 2022 10:00 - 36 minutes - 25 MBThis week's interview with Phoebe Sherman is all about building community within your brand and why that can be so instrumental for your business's growth. Phoebe is the founder of Girl Gang Craft, a community for creatives that has evolved from small local craft fairs and events into a massive brand with a podcast, courses and memberships, and a feminist apparel line. Phoebe is taking us through how the community within Girl Gang Craft was born and how she continues to work to build and ...
Get Known For One Thing
February 15, 2022 10:00 - 11 minutes - 8.23 MBOn this week's episode of Through The Marketing Lens, we're discussing the value of getting known for one thing. I'm calling it the "one-thing model" and companies like McDonalds and Levi's have proven that it works. Sticking to one main offering in your business allows you to both get really good at it and get notoriety from it. I highly recommend this model to any new business owner, especially anyone feeling particularly scattered in their business. We're talking about: Benefits of the...
Hiring For Return On Investment
February 08, 2022 10:00 - 9 minutes - 6.65 MBThis week on Through The Marketing Lens, we are talking about seeing hiring as an investment rather than a cost. As your business grows, you'll need to start outsourcing some parts of your work and it can feel like a huge expense. However, it's so important to shift your mindset and start seeing this expense as a necessary investment that will help your business reach new heights. In this episode, I'm going over two concrete ways to assess the return on investment you're getting from the fo...
Getting More Leads That Convert
February 01, 2022 10:00 - 19 minutes - 13.7 MBIn this week's episode, we're talking about the current marketing landscape and the best ways to get more leads for your business. Additionally, we're discussing strategy around nurturing those leads so that they consistently convert into sales. We are covering: - What a lead is and why getting consistent leads is important for your business - Creating a lead magnet or "freebie" and a ton of other amazing ways to get more leads in your business - What to do with "cold" leads and how to turn...
The Legal Guide to Your Business with Berkley Sweetapple
January 25, 2022 10:00 - 22 minutes - 15.7 MBOn today's episode, we're delving into the world of legal issues within your business with Berkley Sweetapple. As a litigation attorney, Berkley saw many entrepreneurs get into expensive legal trouble that could have been avoided with better contracts or legal help at the beginning of their journey. Most business owners would agree that making sure their business is legally protected is a high priority but it's another story actually getting to that point. Regardless of where you're at in ...
The Best Way To Distribute Your Content
January 18, 2022 10:00 - 12 minutes - 8.33 MBThis week on Through The Marketing Lens, we are discussing the best platforms to be using to reach even more of your ideal audience. If you're among the many business owners I see spending the majority of their marketing energy on social media, this episode is for you. The truth is, other platforms do a much better job of getting your content in front of new eyes than Facebook or Instagram do. In this episode, I'm giving you the details on the hierarchy of content platforms, ranked in orde...
Selling Through Instagram Stories with Jenny Melrose
December 28, 2021 10:00 - 28 minutes - 19.6 MBFor our last episode of 2021, we're talking to the wonderful Jenny Melrose all about Instagram and improving your social media marketing strategy. Jenny is a content marketing and business strategist who helps entrepreneurs better understand their messaging and unique position in the online space. Jenny is taking us through her best tips for showing up on your Instagram Stories authentically and using Stories to sell effectively and grow your business. We are talking about: Why Instagram...
Genius Shift In Your Marketing For More Visibility
December 23, 2021 18:00 - 24 minutes - 16.8 MBOn this bonus holiday episode of Through The Marketing Lens, we are diving into one shift you can make in your marketing that will have an incredible impact for your business. Now more than ever before, consumers want to know and trust the brands that they buy from. Whether you're a product or service based business, this one genius change to increase trust with your audience will absolutely transform your marketing. We’re discussing: Current marketing trends and what consumers are looki...
Why Asking A Partner Can Help Your Business
December 14, 2021 10:00 - 15 minutes - 11 MBOn this week’s episode of Through The Marketing Lens, we are discussing the difficulties in asking for help and the massive invisible workload that’s placed on women. Year round, but especially during the holiday season, moms are expected to take care of SO MUCH behind the scenes. I want to take you all through a recent situation with my partner that helped me to realize just how impactful and important accepting support can be. We’re discussing: All of the sometimes invisible work women...
How To Raise Your Prices
December 07, 2021 10:00 - 16 minutes - 11.5 MBThis week on Through The Marketing Lens, we are diving into the topic of raising your prices! This is a struggle that comes up for every entrepreneur at some point, because raising your rates is a great way to scale your business. Today I'll be taking you through some common mindset blocks around this and giving you some practical tips for how to go about it. We're talking about: When to raise your rates as a service provider and how this also applies to product-based businesses The su...
How the Enneagram and Business Growth Go Together: Interview Episode
November 30, 2021 10:00 - 49 minutes - 34.1 MBIn this week’s episode, we’re speaking with the amazing Karissa Harrison about the world of the Enneagram and how knowing your “type” can truly help to jump start your personal development. While the Enneagram is often thought of as another personality quiz, it can help you gain huge insight into your deepest underlying fears, motivations, and desires. We talk about: The nine Enneagram types and origin of this theory Karissa’s recommendations for figuring out your type (and why you might...
Simple Ways to Make Your Emails Better
November 16, 2021 10:00 - 12 minutes - 8.82 MBIn this week's episode, we are discussing one of my favorite topics: email marketing! Email is still among the highest converting marketing tools you can have in your toolbox, but only if you're using it to start a conversation, create connections and provide value for your readers. Today we will be going over four basic ways you can improve the emails that you're sending today in order to boost your open and click rates. We're talking about: why sending traditional-style newsletters d...
Just Because You Can, Doesn't Mean You Should
November 09, 2021 10:00 - 12 minutes - 8.82 MBIn this episode, we are talking about how you're hindering your business's growth by saying "yes" to projects that you aren't aligned with. It's incredibly common (especially when you're first starting out) to say yes to everything clients ask of you, even if that means going far outside your zone of genius. Somewhat counterintuitively, when we start saying "no" and stop being a jack of all trades, you are enabling your business to take on your true ideal clients instead of wasting your ti...
How to Write a Book As a Marketing Tool with Julie Broad
October 26, 2021 09:00 - 34 minutes - 23.9 MBIn this episode we are speaking with the incredible Julie Broad about how to write a book and utilize it as a marketing tool for your business. Julie went from wanting to write a book and being rejected by big publishing houses, to self-publishing and having her first book reach #1 on Amazon. Now she has a self-publishing services firm that supports new authors through the entirety of the writing and publishing journey. It’s no secret that being a published author grants major credibility t...
How Our Kids See Being An Entrepreneur
October 19, 2021 09:00 - 18 minutes - 12.9 MBThis week on Through The Marketing Lens, we will be going back to an episode that originally aired at the end of 2020, in which I interviewed my 9-year-old daughter. I get her perspective on having a mompreneur, how she sees things, and what she has learned by watching me. This is a completely unscripted, mom-daughter conversation about being an entrepreneur. Understanding what having a business is to a kid is very different than it is to adults (and parents), and I wanted to let her join ...
Anxiety as a Business Owner: Mental Health Awareness Day 2021
October 12, 2021 09:00 - 23 minutes - 16.2 MBIn honor of Mental Health Awareness Day on October 10th, this week’s podcast is all about anxiety and taking care of your mental health. I’m sharing my personal story of dealing with anxiety as an entrepreneur, as a woman, and as a mom. It’s so important to me to normalize talking about anxiety and mental illness, because the more we do, the more others are willing to share their own stories. The truth is that over 19% of adults in the United States have an anxiety disorder, so if you’re st...
Starting Your Own Podcast and Being A Guest on Someone Else’s
October 05, 2021 09:00 - 21 minutes - 14.8 MBIn this week’s episode, we are going through the most frequently asked questions around podcasting as a part of your business’s marketing strategy! We’ll be discussing everything from starting your own podcast to being a guest on someone else’s. The number of people listening to podcasts is growing, and it’s no secret that they can be a phenomenal marketing tool for your business. Podcasts are still a fairly new medium with plenty of unexplored topics, so if you’re thinking of starting on...