Science for Policy
86 episodes - English - Latest episode: 7 months ago -How far should we rely on science to make political decisions? What makes a good science advisor — or a good science advice system? What do we do when the evidence is incomplete or controversial? What happens when science advice goes wrong and how can we fix it? We explore these questions, and many more, in conversation with the researchers, policymakers and communicators who make science advice happen around the world.
The Science for Policy podcast is produced the Scientific Advice Mechanism to the European Commission and hosted by Toby Wardman. The many and varied opinions expressed on this podcast are those of the guests themselves. They do not necessarily represent the views of SAPEA or the European Commission.
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Episodes
Heather Douglas on how values shape science advice
November 29, 2021 05:45 - 44 minutes - 64.2 MBThe practice of science is impossible without importing its values from society, and it's time to leave behind the notion of the independent science advisor who speaks truth to power. So argues Professor Heather Douglas, author of the influential book 'Science, Policy and the Value-Free Ideal'. In this episode, Toby Wardman talks to Professor Douglas about how we can make sense of a scientific community imbued with a diverse mixture of ethical values, and which ideals should replace indepen...
Michel Claessens on science, policy and Covid-19
November 15, 2021 06:45 - 35 minutes - 52 MBThe global pandemic which began in 2020 has brought unprecedented exposure and pressure for science advisors. A recent book, The Science and Politics of Covid-19, surveys the political and scientific response to the crisis. This episode features a wide-ranging conversation with the author, Dr Michel Claessens, on what went right, what went wrong, and what this might mean for the future of science advice. Resources mentioned in this episode The Science and Politics of Covid-19: https://www....
Thea Snow and Adrian Brown on different sources of knowledge for policy
November 01, 2021 04:45 - 53 minutes - 76.8 MBWe all know that scientific evidence is just one of many inputs into policymaking. But what if the notion of evidence itself is too narrow? Are there reliable sources of knowledge other than 'evidence', and if so, how can they be integrated into the policymaking process alongside the theories and data offered by science? At the Centre for Public Impact, Adrian Brown and Thea Snow work to broaden policymakers' understanding of the kinds of knowledge that governments can work with. In this ep...
Leire Rincón García on evidence, ideas, and the race for political attention
October 18, 2021 04:45 - 37 minutes - 54.3 MBPoliticians and lobbyists alike dream of the silver bullet: a single killer piece of scientific evidence that will change all our minds about future policymaking. But could any simple piece of evidence have the power to beat big ideas in public debate? And can evidence garner political attention even when the politicians don't go looking for it? Dr Leire Rincón García's field research on the policy of Universal Basic Income seems to suggest that the answer is 'no'. In this episode, Dr Rincó...
Jennifer Clapp on global food systems advice
October 04, 2021 04:45 - 43 minutes - 62.1 MBOne in three people in the world suffers from malnutrition of one form or another. The world's most prominent intergovernmental body for addressing this challenge, the UN Committee on World Food Security, has its own science advice service made up of experts from around the world. In this episode, Professor Jennifer Clapp gives Toby Wardman a whirlwind tour of the High Level Panel of Experts on Food Security and Nutrition, the challenges of making policy in such a complex topic as global fo...
Who‘s afraid of epistemic diversity?
September 20, 2021 04:45 - 52 minutes - 72.4 MBIn this special episode, twelve scholars of science advice discuss the challenges of incorporating a radically diverse range of perspectives into a science advice process. This conversation was recorded as part of the INGSA 2021 conference on global science advice, and is moderated by Estelle Balian. Speakers in order of appearance Jacopo Torriti, Professor of Energy Economics and Policy, School of the Built Environment, University of Reading Tuula Teeri, President of the Royal Swedish Ac...
Kristian Krieger and Stijn Verleyen on mapping Europe‘s science advice landscape
September 06, 2021 04:45 - 46 minutes - 65.4 MBWhen it comes to science advice infrastructure, Europe is far from a unified whole. That's why the European Commission's science service, the Joint Research Centre, set out to map the entire landscape, looking not only at European and national level but also digging into the way science influences policy within regions and even individual cities. In this episode, Toby Wardman talks to Kristian Krieger and Stijn Verleyen, two of the JRC's project leaders in mapping and evaluating the science...
Piotr Magnuszewski and Nicole Arbour on games at the science-policy interface
August 23, 2021 04:45 - 1 hour - 100 MBHow can policymakers really understand the nitty-gritty of a complex system and how their decisions can influence it? How can scientists get a handle on the many competing variables that policymakers must take into account alongside the scientific evidence? One idea is to throw both of them into a live simulation of the system they want to understand, and let them sink or swim. In this episode, game designer Piotr Magnuszewski and science-policy expert Nicole Arbour chat with Toby Wardman o...
Caroline Wagner on the internationalisation of science and policy
August 09, 2021 04:45 - 56 minutes - 79.3 MBThe world is more interconnected than ever, and global research is no exception. But when scientists work together across borders, who wins — and who, if anyone, loses? Should policymakers be concerned about 'leakage' of publicly-funded research? How is science advice impacted? And in a global knowledge community, is there any future for old-school concepts like science diplomacy? Professor Caroline Wagner, author of 'The New Invisible College' and 'The Collaborative Era In Science', joins ...
Leonie Tanczer, María Jarquín and Natasha Boyd on diversity in science advice
July 26, 2021 04:45 - 1 hour - 89 MBOur two-part series focusing on students and early career researchers concludes today with a lively conversation about teaching, learning and scholarship. Dr Leonie Tanczer, the designer of a unique science advice course at University College London, joins two of her former students María Jarquín and Natasha Boyd to discuss how the field is seen through the eyes of students — with a particular focus on improving diversity in the science advice community. === Resources mentioned in this e...
Adriana Bankston on career moves from science to policy
July 12, 2021 04:45 - 39 minutes - 55.1 MBSome scientists get involved with policy without giving up their day jobs. Others take their scientific training and move wholesale into the world of policy, taking up roles as advisors, analysts, knowledge brokers or advocates on specific issues. In the first in a two-part series focusing on students and early-career researchers, Dr Adriana Bankston of the University of California shares her tips and experiences on leaving academia behind and joining the fast-paced world of policy.
David Budtz Pedersen on measuring the impact of science advice
June 28, 2021 04:45 - 1 hour - 84.9 MBScience, and especially social sciences and humanities, have always had a broad range of impacts on society — impacts which are not easily measured using traditional academic indicators. And engagement with policymakers is one of the trickiest areas to pin down: even when we know it's happening, finding ways to measure and evaluate it can be difficult. In this episode, Professor David Budtz Pedersen of Aalborg University, Copenhagen, talks to Toby Wardman of SAPEA about ways to discover, st...
Pia Kinhult on connecting policy with big science
June 14, 2021 04:45 - 36 minutes - 50.6 MBWhen it's finished, the European Spallation Source in Sweden and Denmark will be the brightest neutron source in the world, opening up new frontiers for science in a broad range of fields. But building a giant facility like this takes decades of commitment from policymakers and scientists alike. In a political environment dominated by short-term thinking, how do we keep everyone on board to see this kind of project through to reality? Pia Kinhult, Head of Host States Relations at the ESS an...
Christina Moberg on the public role of academies
May 31, 2021 04:45 - 31 minutes - 44.1 MBTo coincide with the twentieth birthday of the European Academies' Science Advisory Council, their president Christina Moberg joins Toby Wardman to discuss the role of academies in advising policymakers, communicating with citizens, and contributing to society more generally. We also discuss the history and role of EASAC, the new challenges of science advice post-COVID, and Nobel prizes.
Risto Nieminen and Jaakko Kuosmanen on inventing a new science advice system
May 17, 2021 04:45 - 46 minutes - 63.7 MBWhat happens when your country needs a new science advice system, but all you have is a blank sheet of paper and a mandate to experiment? The Finnish Academy of Science and Letters set out in 2019 to reinvent science advice with their Sofi project. Two years later, the project is about to become a permanent fixture, and its principal architects Jaakko Kuosmanen and Risto Nieminen talk to Toby Wardman about what worked, what didn't, and how to tell the difference.
Jan Marco Müller on science advice for diplomats
May 03, 2021 04:45 - 36 minutes - 50 MBHow much political appetite is there for science advice to foreign policy — and how much impact does it have? What are the differences between advising ministers and advising diplomats? What does the phrase 'science diplomacy' actually mean? Jan Marco Müller discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss how to develop advice demand as well as supply, the geopolitics of Russia's vaccine policy, and navigating centuries of accumulated jargon in the international relati...
George Griffin on the science and policy of COVID vaccination
April 19, 2021 04:45 - 1 hour - 87.7 MBHow do the COVID vaccines work? How do we prioritise recipients? What are the major decisions facing policymakers when executing a mass vaccination campaign -- and where can science help to advise them? George Griffin discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss how to get jabs to developing countries, the origins of the anti-vax movement, and whether we should be worried about rare blood clots. Special thanks to Rúben Castro for technical help in producing this ep...
Natasha Gardiner on science for policy in Antarctica
April 05, 2021 04:45 - 44 minutes - 62.8 MBHow is Antarctica governed, and why do scientists play such a key role in running it? What science advice structures exist to advise Antarctic decision-makers, and how do they function? Can the whole science-as-governance system, designed in the 1950s, survive into the 21st century? Natasha Gardiner discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss decision-making deadlock, saving seals, and how to start a new human colony on one of Saturn's moons. Resources discussed i...
Roger Pielke Jr on shadow science advice
March 22, 2021 04:45 - 49 minutes - 68.8 MBCan unofficial or self-appointed science advice structures be valuable, or are they destabilising? What responsibilities does a science advisor have when they disagree with the consensus view? What's going wrong, if anything, when a politician picks up the phone and calls their own favourite scientist for input? Roger Pielke Jr discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss the dubious wisdom of electing your commander-in-chief, asking your friend to give you brain su...
Tracey Brown on data modelling in policy advice
March 08, 2021 05:45 - 49 minutes - 69.2 MBHow widespread is the use of big data in government decision-making? What questions should policymakers ask when presented with policy recommendations based on data modelling? Should opaque models based on machine-learning algorithms come with a health warning? Tracey Brown discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss spurious precision in scientific results, whether US election pollsters got it right or wrong, and the psychology of ordering wine. Resources discuss...
Fred Fenter and Stephan Kuster on the scientific community's response to COVID-19
February 22, 2021 05:45 - 33 minutes - 47.6 MBWhat does the worldwide scientific community think of how science advice was used in 2020? What impact have lockdown, home-working and the race for a vaccine had on the life and work of individual scientists? Have other areas of science-related policy, such as climate change, been boosted or sidelined since COVID? Fred Fenter and Stephan Kuster discuss these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss whether a worldwide crisis helps or hinders the cause of open access publishing,...
Pieter Duisenberg, Liesbeth Hulst and Joost Sneller on science in the Dutch parliament
February 08, 2021 05:45 - 50 minutes - 71.1 MBThe Dutch parliament is trialling a new, radical way to take advice from scientists on every draft law that comes before it. How legally robust is it? What are the risks for scientists of getting involved in the cut and thrust of parliamentary debate, and for politicians of inviting professors to "mark their homework"? Pieter Duisenberg, Joost Sneller and Dr Liesbeth Hulst talk to Toby Wardman of SAPEA about the new science advice mechanism in the parliament of the Netherlands. They also di...
Paul Nurse, Peter Piot and Christiane Woopen on ethics and multidisciplinarity
January 25, 2021 05:45 - 58 minutes - 80.5 MBWhy is multidisciplinary science advice so difficult, and are there ways to make it easier? Should policymakers seek ethics advice as well as science advice? When there is a conflict between the values embedded in different cultural contexts, how can we navigate the conflict sensitively? Christiane Woopen, Paul Nurse and Peter Piot discuss these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss the unique challenges of giving advice in a crisis, the relationship between ‘discovery’ and ...
Miriam Frankel on how journalists report science advice
January 11, 2021 05:45 - 34 minutes - 47.5 MBWhat makes science journalism a tough job? How should the media handle the complexities of science advice systems, especially during a pandemic? And when science advice, political controversy and public health get tangled up together, is a journalist the right person to try and unpick them? Miriam Frankel discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss how not to accidentally amplify fringe scientists, how to coach science advisors to talk to the public, and whether no...
Florian Süssenguth on advising Chancellor Merkel
December 28, 2020 05:45 - 30 minutes - 42.5 MBHow does Angela Merkel’s confidential science and innovation advisory group function? When can industry stakeholders play a role in science advice, and what are the benefits and challenges when they do? Florian Süssenguth discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss the difficulty of measuring impact, science advice in the post-Merkel future, and what innovation actually means anyway. Resources mentioned in this episode Innovation Dialogue: https://www.acatech.de/...
Erin Macdonald on being Star Trek's science advisor
December 25, 2020 05:45 - 44 minutes - 62.2 MB** Note to listeners: The version of this episode first published on Christmas Day included a minor editing error around minute 40 (a few moments of silence). A corrected version was published on 4 January. If your podcast app had downloaded the episode before that date, but you haven't yet listened to it, you may wish to delete and re-download the episode so you have the corrected version. Apologies for the inconvenience! ** What joint challenges are faced by policy advisors and TV advisor...
Antonio Loprieno on the history and future of knowledge
December 14, 2020 05:45 - 55 minutes - 76.4 MBHow is the nature of knowledge changing? What is the impact of the digital revolution on the roles of universities, academies and science advisors? Is democratisation of knowledge always a good thing? Professor Antonio Loprieno discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss how to digitally unwrap an Egyptian mummy, whether there is such a thing as objective truth, and how loudly Toby can scream when his audio is muted.
Cathrine Holst on reasons to mistrust experts
November 29, 2020 05:45 - 35 minutes - 48.5 MBIs there a fundamental tension between democracy and expertise? How can non-experts evaluate experts? When we design science advice systems, should we prioritise independence or interdependence? Professor Cathrine Holst discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss techniques to reduce human error in science advice, how to pronounce awkward acronyms, and whether populism is the chicken or the egg. Resources discussed in this episode The PERITIA project on trust in ...
Maria da Graça Carvalho on the origin of the European Commission’s science advice mechanism
November 16, 2020 06:00 - 37 minutes - 51.3 MBWhy does European Commission science advice work the way it does? Why did former President Juncker discontinue the standalone post of chief science advisor? Why has the EU settled on a hybrid model which combines advisors, academies and officials? Maria da Graça Carvalho MEP discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss the separate role of the Joint Research Centre, how to attract women and girls to high-salary tech jobs of the future, and whether any science can su...
Cary Funk on whether people trust science
November 02, 2020 06:00 - 26 minutes - 36.4 MBWhat does our best available evidence tell us about public trust in science and science advice? How has that evolved recently? And what's the moral of the story for science advisors, policymakers, and the people who design science advice systems? Dr Cary Funk of Pew Research in Washington DC discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss whether you can educate people into trusting you, why people give confusingly different answers to seemingly similar questions, and ...
Clarissa Rios Rojas on talking to policymakers about catastrophic risk
October 19, 2020 05:00 - 26 minutes - 37 MBIs it possible to develop a unified science of catastrophic risk? How can we convince policymakers to take risks to human existence seriously enough? How can we improve our foresight so that we can spot the next big disaster before it hits us? Dr Clarissa Rios Rojas discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss how to start a difficult conversation with a politician, whether future doomsday manuals should be stuffed into envelopes or just put online, and why being a ...
Mark Walport on the UK's use of science advice during COVID-19
October 15, 2020 11:52 - 45 minutes - 62.6 MBShould scientists be free to speak out if they don’t like how politicians use science? Who is to blame if government policy doesn’t follow advice? Why were some countries hit harder than others by COVID in the spring, and did the quality of science advice have anything to do with it? When do scientists speak as scientists, and when are they simply ordinary citizens? Sir Mark Walport discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss the job of a chief scientific advisor, ...
Vladimír Šucha and Marta Sienkiewicz on why science advice needs to change
October 05, 2020 05:00 - 55 minutes - 76.9 MBHow can science advice — and science in general — keep up with dramatic changes in the world? How do you build an organisation that can translate scientific results into policy solutions? What responsibilities do politicians have when they choose to ignore or override scientific advice? Vladimír Šucha and Marta Sienkiewicz discuss these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss the nature of trust, how intimately linked scientists and politicians can safely become, and whether s...
Bart Koelmans on communicating risk and uncertainty to policymakers
September 21, 2020 05:00 - 53 minutes - 73.8 MBDo policymakers and scientists have different understandings of "risk"? How can scientific uncertainty be pinned down and quantified? When experts disagree about the evidence, is there anything useful that the policymaker can take away from that disagreement? Bart Koelmans discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss the strength of the evidence for harm from microplastics, the limits of the natural sciences, what numerical value of probability is implied by the wor...
Rolf Heuer and Pearl Dykstra on being a chief science advisor
September 07, 2020 15:38 - 51 minutes - 71.2 MBWhat's it like to be a Chief Scientific Advisor? Why does the European Commission's Scientific Advice Mechanism use both advisors and academies? What have the advisors learned in the first five years of the mechanism's existence and what tips would they give to their successors? Professors Rolf-Dieter Heuer and Pearl Dykstra discuss these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also talk about making sense of disagreements science, whether the world is really losing faith in experts, and w...
Peter Gluckman on the worldwide response to COVID-19
September 01, 2020 09:17 - 49 minutes - 68.1 MBWhat has COVID-19 taught us about science advice? How have different countries responded to evolving evidence during the pandemic? Have some science advice models performed better than others in terms of public health outcomes? Can science advice really help much when evidence is partial or controversial, and decisions are needed at high speed? Sir Peter Gluckman discusses these questions with Toby Wardman of SAPEA. We also discuss where to draw the line between evidence and democratic deci...