Teacher Supervision That Supports Professional Growth

It is no secret that some traditional teacher evaluation systems are less than effective in supporting professional growth. Faculty want feedback, and yet tired policies and lack of imagination can prevent leaders from seeing what is possible.

Consider a different approach to this area of instructional leadership. Matt Cormier, an elementary principal in Jefferson County Public Schools in Colorado, takes more of a coaching stance to his work, including:

* feedback that is focused on the future and on teacher growth,

* how documentation can show alignment between teachers’ beliefs and their practices plus current research, and

* engaging in more conversation and less judgment around instruction.

Enjoyed this episode? Share it with your colleagues and your PLN. If you post this podcast on Twitter and include my handle (@ReadByExample), you could win a one year subscription to Choice Literacy.

Related Resources

* Transcript + Audio

* Matt’s District Webpage, Bio

* Matt’s Recommended Sources for Research: The Marshall Memo, The Main Idea

* Matt’s Coach, Samantha Bennett (Linkedin)

* Literacy Walks e-course (Choice Literacy)

Full Transcript

Matt Renwick:

It is no secret that teacher evaluation systems are less than effective in supporting professional growth. Faculty want feedback, and yet tired policies and lack of imagination can prevent leaders from seeing what's possible.

Matt Renwick:

In this episode of Read by Example, I talk with Matt Cormier, a principal in Jefferson County Public Schools in Colorado about his unique approach to teachers who provision. It is teacher driven, aligned with mutual goals, and focused on improvement instead of only evaluation.

Matt Renwick:

Hey, Matt, thanks for joining me today. And we spoke before about just this unique approach you have to staff supervision and evaluation. And so I asked if we could connect again and just kind of lay it out and just think about how this might work for teachers and you. Anyway, it's quite different, but can you just explain just your staff supervision and evaluation approach and what is it and why did you move toward it?

Matt Cormier:

So I would definitely say the theme of the approach is that my feedback to teachers is not about the lesson I just watched. It's not about today. The focus is really about tomorrow. You've got to go in with that mindset that it isn't about what you just saw. It's about what the teacher will do with feedback and what tomorrow might look like.

Matt Cormier:

The other thing too, I think foundationally, I have to say, I would never use this process with somebody I didn't know, or somebody that I was concerned about their performance. I don't believe that that's the right direction to go. With folks that you don't know, I think that it's important to have to utilize the formal process that's been approved by the school district and by the association. And I think that's key. And for somebody who you're concerned about their performance, I think that you have to follow that as well.

Matt Cormier:

Now, my situation, like many others I have a stable staff. Some of the folks that I'm working with, I've worked with the entire time I've been here. So this is my seventh year. And as I kind of reflected last year about their performance, I could go down the list of my staff and say, at the end of the year, my guess is this staff member will end up as effective. This staff member will end up as highly effective. Just I know them, I've worked with them long enough to know that would be the case. And so it kind of felt like that the structure that we had in place was going to lead to that ending, that maybe there was an opportunity for a different structure, something that felt different to everybody.

Matt Cormier:

So I guess I would say that one of the pieces of this process is that I still need to do what the school district says that I have to do, which is have a formal observation of every teacher by the end of semester one. And for people who are probationary, I have to have two formal observations by the end of the year. And so the way that I do that is they self-evaluate their work against the 23 indicators in the school district. And they submit their self-evaluation to me of those 23 indicators. And generally, I ask for that to be done by Labor Day.

Matt Cormier:

And then between Labor Day and the end of September, I take their ratings from their self-evaluation. I put them in the formal observation document. I take a look and I compare how they rated themselves against their most recent evaluation that I did using those 23 indicators. And I say, does this align with what I know about this person? Does this make sense? And if it does, I send them back their formal document. I say, "This looks good to me. Does it look good to you? Let's have a meeting."

Matt Cormier:

So in that meeting, it could be a long meeting, but not about the formal, the fall observation. The conversation about the fall formal goes like this. "Hey, do you agree with all these ratings in here? Yeah, you do? All right. That sounds good. Would you sign the document for me? Okay. Send the document. Now let's talk about what do you want to get better at?"

Matt Renwick:

Right.

Matt Cormier:

Because if I'm going to come into your room, say I'm going into come in your room six times, seven times this year, and I can look for whatever you want and I'm going to then look for research that backs up what you're doing. What do you want me to look for? What is it you want me to pay attention to? And that's where the length of the conversation happens for folks in the fall.

Matt Cormier:

So basically one of the things I love about this is I'm done with everybody's fall formal document by the end of September. There's no problem, nobody worrying about whether I've got my documents done at the school district. They're done. I probably could do everybody at this point. I could do everybody's spring formal if I needed to do that for the probationary folks. And honestly, I could start to work on the finals evaluations right now, too, because I'm just literally going to take the fall formal ratings and put it into a final document and have a very similar conversation in April. "Hey, do you agree with all these ratings? You do? All right. Now, let's talk about the other things. You told me you wanted to get better at this. Let's talk about that."

Matt Renwick:

Yeah.

Matt Cormier:

That's why I say, part of it is understanding that what I do is get what is required of me by the school district done very soon, very quickly so that I can engage in this process of writing letters of reflection after doing observations, which leads me to my next key piece here, which is when I write a letter of reflection, I am making sure that there is alignment between a teacher's philosophical beliefs about education and who they are as a teacher. So there's alignment between their beliefs with actually what they're doing. The teacher moves that I notice in class, and then I match that with research. So those three pieces.

Matt Cormier:

So we got to take one step back because in August, when all teachers come back, I asked teachers to write me a context letter. And the context letter is filled with their beliefs about what it means to be a teacher, their beliefs about good teaching and what gets them out of bed in the morning? Why do they choose to do this job? And so everybody is asked to write that and submit that to me before Labor Day so I have that. And then as I go into.. I reread everybody's context letter. Every time that I go, every single time I read the context letter, I talk and say, "These are the teacher moves that I noticed. And here's the research that backs you up. This is what the researchers say." And generally I look for opportunities to look for the things that they asked me to look for.

Matt Renwick:

There's a real shift in the power dynamic when you have teachers self-assessing and telling you what they want you to look for. Did you have any initial concerns as you shifted to this approach? You're releasing some of that, I wouldn't say authority, but you're just sharing it, I guess more than anything.

Matt Cormier:

Yeah. I mean, I think there were concerns, both from teachers and for me. The biggest concern for teachers was sitting down and writing a context letter. It's almost like, I would say to them like, literally, "Wake up before the house wakes up. Get a cup of tea or a cup of coffee. Sit down and write your beliefs about being a teacher. When you're done, you will say that was the greatest time you spent, because nobody's asked you to do that in a long time. And it feels good to try to reflect on who you are, why this matters to you." But teachers were nervous. They were nervous about it. And they said, "Are you going to check my spelling and grammar?" I said, "No, I just want your thoughts."

Matt Renwick:

Right.

Matt Cormier:

So in hindsight, I think I probably should give a devoted time and say, "I'm serving you the tea and coffee. Now we're going to sit and you're going to do this incredible thing."

Matt Renwick:

There you go.

Matt Cormier:

For me, I think the toughest thing was the idea that everybody delivers a train wreck of a lesson. And there are times where I've gone in to go through this new process and write a letter of reflection. And it's a train wreck. And I know it, and I'm hoping to God, the teacher knows it too, because if the teacher knows it, the teacher looks at me and says, "Oh my Lord," then I feel great. Then I feel great. Like yeah, nothing went the way you wanted it to go, or the moves felt awkward today. And if the teacher could just say to me, "Oh Lord, do overplays," then I would feel so much better because a lot of times I have this piece of where I'm actually wondering, do they know it was a train wreck because in the process that I undergo, I don't sit there and go," Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. That was a train wreck." Instead, I look at the positive pieces.

Matt Cormier:

And so it does become hard when you want to say like, "Hey, I think that was in your blind spot. You missed a great opportunity there to create a letter that might give that feedback," but it also makes the teacher want to get up the next day and do this again because teachers pour so much of who they are personally into their work that sometimes feedback about their work feels like feedback about them. [crosstalk 00:11:30].

Matt Renwick:

Yeah. In the traditional approach, they're not asking for feedback. It's just something you have to do. And when they write that context letter and then say, "This is what I want you to look for," the early shifts and the feedback becomes something that they want, versus something they're going to get. I liked reading your context letter, and I'm very interested in history. And you're very open about your history and your philosophy and approaching that. Being vulnerable with them, I'm sure helped them craft their own letters and feel okay about it. And you mentioned that you read their contexts letters. How else do you use that when you go into classrooms and give them the reflection letter itself?

Matt Cormier:

I often will think through, because the idea is to try to match their beliefs with the teaching moves. And so sometimes I've read the context letter before I go in and I think I know I'm going to pull out these beliefs, but then I'll actually observe something and be able to go back and say, "Wait a second. I remember seeing that," and then pull out another component there where you're just...

Matt Cormier:

And I'll write sometimes in the section where I write about teacher moves, instead of saying, "Hey, I'm going to match your move to research. I'm not going to tell you which researcher has got your back, but I'm going to tell you that your belief system has your back. When you say you want to do right by all kids and then I noticed that you made an adjustment in the lesson at the moment, because you were clearly teaching to one group of kids and you noticed it. And in the moment you said, 'Wait a second, I got to adjust something right here,' that's a point where when I write about that teaching move, I will say in your book that that is so aligned with your belief system."

Matt Cormier:

The other thing I love about the context letter is it says, I see you, I see who you are as a person. I see who you are as an educator because often teachers will share with me personal stories in their contexts letter. What gets them out of bed in the morning might be an experience that they had as a young person. Think of the, Thank You, Mr. Falker, Patricia Polacco book, right? A lot of teachers have that book, their own book written, and they might share something with me. And then you can see them treat another kid in the way that they were treated. And to say, "Look at how you believe and look at what you did for that kid," there is alignment.

Matt Cormier:

And I think a lot of times what I'm saying is I see you, I see you and I hear you. And I know you as an individual and as a professional. I think there's a lot of... My teachers have given me a lot of feedback that this process, they don't put on a dog and pony, they're not trying to hit all 23 indicators and be like, "I know if I say this, I've hit an indicator to see." Instead, it feels very different for them.

Matt Renwick:

Yeah. They're showing you the real deal. And again, I think it comes back to what you did with your own context letter of revealing your own experience as a teacher. And it wasn't always perfect. That's got to be huge. So I think you started with one teacher, right, Matt, to try it with, and it sounds like it's expanded, more teachers are electing for this more authentic approach. Is that all your teachers now are on it, or how many?

Matt Cormier:

Everybody's on it. Last year, it was opt in. You had to say yes. And I had almost all teachers opt in. And when I asked some teachers, "Why didn't you do it?" They said, "I'm nervous about writing the context letter."

Matt Renwick:

Writing. I gotcha.

Matt Cormier:

But I thought to myself, but you wanted the 23 indicators where I rate you, you wanted that. Who wants that? So this year it was opt out. This year it was, this is what I want to do. You can opt out. Nobody opted out.

Matt Renwick:

Yeah.

Matt Cormier:

Nobody at all.

Matt Renwick:

Kind of a passive permission in a sense, maybe that little nudge for those people who are still unsure. That's a cool way to think about that. You mentioned your teachers give you feedback. What do they say about this process now that you've got it now a couple of years?

Matt Cormier:

I think mostly what they would say is that it doesn't feel stressful. That it feels safe. And so that's probably the most powerful thing that I've gotten out of this period of time. Because I think that if we can create a very safe environment... Probably a lot of us as principals say the same kind of thing, right? It's that idea that why don't we learn through failure and success? Why don't we learn by trying? And we say all those things, but there are all these immense pressures on teachers to take those risks. That can be a big step for a lot of people because there's way too many other pressures.

Matt Cormier:

And so, if really what I've gotten out of this period of time, just a little over a year with the pandemic lockdown down in the middle of that, is that everybody feels safer about when I come into the classroom, then I'll take that without a doubt. I do get some really good back and forth conversations because when I write a letter of reflection, it always ends with, "Now, tell me what you're thinking. Tell me what you're thinking about, what I said or the research that I shared." Sometimes where I quote research, I'll actually make a copy of that article, put it in their box. "And what do you think?" And we can end up with a back and forth conversation.

Matt Cormier:

Some of my favorites are honestly, where I might have a question that does challenge. I recently observed a teacher who wasn't posting learning targets and freely admitted it. "I haven't posted a learning target in a while." And it was a great opportunity for me to say, "Tell me why. Why is it that you didn't do that? Philosophically, what is it that stopped you from doing that?" Because to me, a learning target is foundational to a good lesson or a bad lesson. To any lesson at all kids need to know what they're working towards.

Matt Cormier:

So this was a great moment for me to say like, "This is not a gotcha moment. I actually really want to know what is getting in the way." And obviously the feedback could actually be time, but my response on time is my son called me today and said, "Dad, I need you. I've just been in a car accident." I would get out of this building and go. He is that important to me. To me, in lesson planning, the learning target is that important. I would never, ever not create a lesson plan that didn't have a learning target and success criteria that everybody moved towards. So it was fantastic for me to ask, "What stopped you from doing that? What is your belief system?" And I think that is rich to have it be a place where teachers don't feel scared to engage in that. It's not a gotcha.

Matt Renwick:

And you're feeling safe too, it sounds like to share your own belief system about learning targets, but in a way that's not confrontational, just here's where I'm at. Here's where I understand you're at. And we're just trying to engage in a conversation versus a battle of wills.

Matt Cormier:

Because here's the truth. This teachers' evaluation around learning targets has already been written, right? It's already been written. Whatever rating that we agreed upon, she's gotten. And if somebody were to say, "Well, Matt, but what if she doesn't do learning targets?" Well, here's the thing. If I were to do a scheduled observation and rate her 23 indicators, do you think she'd have her learning targets up on that day? She'd have her learning targets up on that day. So the fact that she did it on that day, that I came in out of compliance around a 23 indicator rubric, that is not as rich and meaty as the conversation I get to have with her, when she admits I haven't posted them in a while. And I get to say, "Why?"

Matt Renwick:

Yeah, you have established trust and relationships. And you're clear about what you're working on. And yeah, no, that's powerful. The clear distinction between the traditional approach and you're more learning-centered structure, what skills did you need to development, Matt, in order to make this process successful?

Matt Cormier:

There's so many. I laugh because I am just struggling every day in this and it feels great. It's the best part of my day is to engage in this struggle, which is writing a good reflection letter. At first, when I thought about, I have to see if there's alignment between beliefs, actions, and research, I thought, how on earth am I going to do the research? I spend most of my evenings watching woodworking videos. I don't just peruse educational publications or read articles for fun. I don't do that.

Matt Renwick:

I was going to ask, when do you read the research? But you mentioned the Marshall Memo was one way you can kind of stay on top of current studies.

Matt Cormier:

Yeah, that was probably one of the biggest benefits, was somebody who was saying, "Get access to the Marshall Memo." That's an incredible resource because you just, you know you want to give somebody feedback about shifting of the cognitive load or you know you want to give somebody some feedback about their feedback. And you can only quote John Hattie's effect size on feedback so many times. You're like, "Somebody give me an article that quoted John Hattie. There we go." And so the Marshall Memo has been incredible. And then, now the gifts that I've received. My boss gave me a gift of access to Jenn David-Lang's summaries of books. That was a great gift.

Matt Cormier:

The other thing that I would say that I really benefited from is every time my boss walks into the building, I look and I say, "Hey, no chitchat. Let's get in classrooms." And then we go into a classroom and she helps me write that letter of reflection. And that has been one of the best gifts because to have two people writing a letter of reflection and me getting to benefit from when she looks for articles. Now I've got that article in my repository that I can pick. And actually she's doing that for a lot of people. So that was the hardest part was to write a really good letter of reflection and find some good research for folks.

Matt Cormier:

And then I came across this idea that my school district had put out these look-fors for when teaching moves were effective. And each of the 23 indicators, they've got quite a few bullets of look-fors underneath those. And I just thought there's some language. I don't know that I have to... When I write about the teacher moves that I noticed, and I want to write something that feels like it's worth people's time of reading and it really kind of matches what we want to say in an educational world and a professional world, well, there it is. I was able to say, "When you're adapting, okay, let me look at the look-fors. I'm seeing those things. Why don't I just pull that right in to my document of feedback?" And that's been a nice way to marry the old process of rating 23 indicators with this new process of saying these are the teacher moves that I noticed and using some of that language.

Matt Renwick:

It gives you the language to make it evidence-based and it's aligned and it takes a little bit of the thinking work and try to be creative, which I struggle with sometimes. What do I want to say exactly here? And just having those terms up is helpful. So I assume you would never go back to your former model.

Matt Cormier:

No.

Matt Renwick:

No. But if someone is thinking about, like me, truly kind of marrying authentic feedback and growth with an evaluation system, what would be some first steps in getting started in the process that you would recommend?

Matt Cormier:

I think I would ask you to reflect on this question that I was challenged with. So this, everything I'm talking about came from one of the most amazing intellects I've met in recent years, Ms. Sam Bennett, and that's who challenged me to think differently about this work. And she challenged me with this question. I would ask everybody to think it through as well. "Do you think that your current process is getting you the results and getting teachers the results they want?" And I actually, honestly, I answered back very quickly. I said, "Yes, it is. Because when I rate teacher ineffective or partially effective, the next time I go in, they have absolutely made a change."

Matt Cormier:

But then, the question I think, came up was "Well, what happens if you go in the next time or the time after?" And I thought, no, it's compliance. Right? The current system I have is about compliance and it doesn't feel good when I hear teachers say to me is they're nervous. Even the very best of them who say, "You can come in anytime you want, Matt." Because we've all heard that. "Come in anytime you want. I don't want to change a thing." The fact is when I walk in, I notice a change either in the voice or just in some of the moves. If I've got a computer with me, there's a change.

Matt Cormier:

And so I recognize that the old system, wasn't what I wanted. I didn't want a compliance-based system. I didn't want to worry in November if I had gone through all the pieces the district required me to do or again in April. And how many of us have written evaluations on Saturday nights in April? I didn't want to do that anymore. I didn't want to worry about compliance. I'd worry about authentic growth, something that the teacher wanted. And so that's what I would say to everybody first to get started, ask that question of yourself. Are you getting what you want? Are your teachers getting what you want? Because if you're not, then that is the definition of insanity.

Matt Renwick:

Yeah.

Matt Cormier:

You have to think about something different. And my guess is your school district, like my school district probably offers some flexibility around how you do that.

Matt Renwick:

Yeah. And especially this year with observing Zooms and all kind of creative ways to get in the classroom. Well, this is very helpful, Matt. Remind me, which district are you out of? You're in Colorado.

Matt Cormier:

That's right. Best district in Colorado. I'm in Jefferson County, Jeffco Schools, which is on the west side of Denver. We're a good sized school district, over 80,000 kids. And I'm super proud of this district. I've been here 20 years. No, 19 years. 19 years. But I think it's forward thinking, forward looking and definitely been given some grace around thinking through the different process here.

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