One Planet Podcast · Climate Change, Politics, Sustainability, Environmental Solutions, Renewable Energy, Activism, Biodiversity, Carbon Footprint, Wildlife, Regenerative Agriculture, Circular Economy, Extinction, Net-Zero
488 episodes - English - Latest episode: 8 days ago - ★★★★★ - 137 ratingsThe story of our environment may well be the most important story this century. We focus on issues facing people and the planet. Leading environmentalists, organizations, activists, and conservationists discuss meaningful ways to create a better and more sustainable future.
Participants include EARTHDAY.ORG, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Environmental Defense Fund, Greenpeace, UNESCO World Heritage Centre, PETA, European Environment Agency, Peter Singer, 350.org, The Nature Conservancy, UNESCO Mahatma Gandhi Institute of Education for Peace and Sustainable Development, Citizens’ Climate Lobby, Rob Nixon, Rob Gonen, Martín von Hildebrand, FSG Reimagining Social Change, Earth System Governance Project, Forest Stewardship Council, Global Witness, National Council for Climate Change, Sustainable Development and Public Leadership, Marine Stewardship Council, One Tree Planted, Polar Bears International, EarthLife Africa, Shimon Schwarzschild, and GAIA Centre, among others.
Interviews conducted by artist, activist, and educator Mia Funk with the participation of students and universities around the world. the net Podcast Is part of The Creative Process’ environmental initiative.
Copyright 2021
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Episodes
(Highlights) Ami Vitale · Award-winning Photographer, Filmmaker & Exec. Director of Vital Impacts
May 09, 2022 14:39 - 14.6 MB"When are we all going to start to care about one another? Because all of our individual choices do have impacts. And I just think the demands that we place on this planet, on the ecosystems, are what are driving conflict and human suffering. In some cases, it's really the scarcity of resources, just like water. In others, it's the changing climate and the loss of fertile lands to be able to grow food. But in the end, it's always the people living in these places that really suffer the most....
Ami Vitale · Award-Winning Photographer, Filmmaker & Exec. Director of Vital Impacts
May 09, 2022 08:50 - 40.7 MBPhotographer and filmmaker Ami Vitale shares her personal odyssey—from documenting the heartbreaking realities of war to witnessing the inspiring power of an individual to make a difference. Her award-winning work illuminates the unsung heroes and communities working to protect our wildlife and find harmony in our natural world. Hear her awe-inspiring stories of the reintroduction of northern white rhinos and giant pandas to the wild, as well as Kenya’s first indigenous-owned and run elephan...
Daniel Sherrell · Author of "Warmth: Coming of Age at the End of Our World”
May 05, 2022 11:01 - 71.1 MBDaniel Sherrell is the author of Warmth: Coming of Age at the End of Our World, a memoir on the climate crisis framed as a letter to Sherrell's potential future child. He is a climate movement organizer and has led successful campaigns to phase out coal-fired power plants, divest millions of dollars from the fossil fuel industry, and pass a Green New Deal bill for New York State, legislation that the New York Times called “one of the world’s most ambitious climate plans.” He’s Campaign Direc...
Dr. G. Samantha Rosenthal · Author of "Beyond Hawai'i" & “Living Queer History”
April 29, 2022 13:13 - 99.2 MBDr. G. Samantha Rosenthal is an Associate Professor of History and Coordinator of the Public History Concentration at Roanoke College in Salem, Virginia. Rosenthal teaches courses in public history, women’s and gender studies, and general education. She is interested in environmental studies, working-class studies, LGBTQ, queer, and trans studies, community organizing, and scholar-activism. She is the author of Living Queer History, and Beyond Hawai’i. · gsrosenthal.com · https://gsrosenth...
(Highlights) WILLIAM McDONOUGH
April 22, 2022 18:00 - 25.7 MB“I think believing in something is also part of the responsibility of the believer to sift through these things. So there are a lot of people saying I'm green because they do something less badly. So for me, it’s not green yet, it's just less bad. It's not really good yet. It's not really fabulous, but that just means there's an opportunity to keep going to share information and help each other because in the end, I think what we're dealing with now is the recognition that the world has a ve...
WILLIAM McDONOUGH
April 22, 2022 17:55 - 114 MBWilliam McDonough is a globally recognized leader in sustainable design and development. He has written and lectured extensively on design as the first signal of human intention. He co-authored Cradle to Cradle: Remaking the Way We Make Things, which is celebrating its 20th anniversary this year. McDonough advises leaders on ESG strategies through McDonough Innovation, is an architect with William McDonough + Partners, and provides product assessments through MBDC, the creators of the Crad...
(Highlights) STEVE BIDDULPH
April 18, 2022 10:36 - 9.16 MB“We drastically misuse our mind and have neglected a very important part of the way our mind works in the modern world. I think preindustrial people and our ancestors used this very well. And that is that we have a whole right hemisphere of our brain which doesn't think in words, which takes in the holistic picture of everything around us. Anyone who is listening to this podcast will be aware that sometimes you have got feelings about things. They are signals that are sent from the right hem...
STEVE BIDDULPH
April 18, 2022 10:35 - 53.6 MBSteve Biddulph (AM) is a renowned parent educator. A retired psychologist of 30 years, he continues to write and teach, authoring books such as The Secret of Happy Children, Raising Boys, The New Manhood, and 10 Things Girls Need Most, which have influenced how we view childhood development and mental health. Voted Australian Father of the Year in 2001, Steve has since been made a member of the Order of Australia for his work in youth mental health, and remains a patron of the Sanctuary Refu...
(Highlights) STEVEN ALLISON
April 11, 2022 11:16 - 18.8 MB“It’s basically a seed bank of genetic and metabolic diversity. The Earth’s entire microbiome is just a tremendous treasure trove of history, evolution, and diversity. So I would say we have no idea what’s in a lot of that diversity. It's like the dark matter of the universe. People call it the dark matter of the microbiome, and we're still figuring out what that matter does. We know that they're tremendously diverse. The sequencing revolution that happened over the last 20 or 30 years has m...
STEVEN ALLISON
April 11, 2022 11:16 - 101 MBDr. Steven Allison is a Professor of Ecology at the University of California, Irvine. He holds a PhD in Biological Sciences from Stanford University. As part of the University of California’s Carbon Neutrality Initiative, Dr. Allison was named the UC Irvine Climate Action Champion in 2016. He teaches ecosystem ecology and directs the Ridge to Reef Graduate Training Program, an interdisciplinary program focused on skills development for students pursuing careers in environmental fields. His r...
Highlights–David Simon–Editor of "Rethinking Sustainable Cities"
April 08, 2022 18:43 - 9.5 MB“It's always difficult to avoid charges of being nostalgic if we talk about going back to things. Back to the past or forward to the past, but there are principles that existed in preindustrial/early industrial cities and which were overturned by key technological inventions of the late 19th and early 20th century, particularly the railway, the motorcar, of course, the internal combustion engine on which it’s based and which led to the vast expansion of towns and cities and, crucially, subur...
(Highlights) DAVID SIMON
April 08, 2022 18:43 - 9.5 MB“It's always difficult to avoid charges of being nostalgic if we talk about going back to things. Back to the past or forward to the past, but there are principles that existed in preindustrial/early industrial cities and which were overturned by key technological inventions of the late 19th and early 20th century, particularly the railway, the motorcar, of course, the internal combustion engine on which it’s based and which led to the vast expansion of towns and cities and, crucially, subur...
DAVID SIMON
April 08, 2022 10:54 - 53.4 MBDavid Simon is Professor of Development Geography and Director for External Engagement in the School of Life Sciences and the Environment, Royal Holloway, University of London. He was also Director of Mistra Urban Futures, Gothenburg, Sweden from 2014–2019. A former Rhodes Scholar, he specialises in cities, climate change and sustainability, and the relationships between theory, policy and practice, on all of which he has published extensively. At Mistra Urban Futures, he led the pioneering ...
David Simon–Editor of "Rethinking Sustainable Cities"
April 08, 2022 10:54 - 53.4 MBDavid Simon is Professor of Development Geography and Director for External Engagement in the School of Life Sciences and the Environment, Royal Holloway, University of London. He was also Director of Mistra Urban Futures, Gothenburg, Sweden from 2014–2019. A former Rhodes Scholar, he specialises in cities, climate change and sustainability, and the relationships between theory, policy and practice, on all of which he has published extensively. At Mistra Urban Futures, he led the pioneering ...
(Highlights) ALICE SCHMIDT
April 01, 2022 13:33 - 20.4 MB“What is societal progress? I think the last 70 years, clearly, in the post World War II period, we have been thinking of economic growth and have been equating that with societal progress. To an extent of course that's right. To an extent, we need this economic growth to lift people out of poverty. We’ve kind of lost the reasoning. We have been following only this economic growth paradigm measured by the GDP, the Gross domestic product and we have forgotten that it measures many things, but...
ALICE SCHMIDT
April 01, 2022 13:32 - 94.8 MBAlice Schmidt is a global sustainability advisor who has worked in 30 countries on 4 continents with 70+ organisations of all shapes and sizes. She has a deep passion for creating opportunities and win-wins across the social, environmental and economic spheres. Many of her experiences are highlighted in the new book “The Sustainability Puzzle: How Systems Thinking, Climate Action, Circularity and Social Transformation Can Improve Health, Wealth and Wellbeing for All”. · www.aliceschmidt.at ...
(Highlights) ROB BILOTT
March 30, 2022 16:52 - 24.5 MB“It's kind of a scary thought. We've got these PFAS (per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances), you hear them now referred to as forever chemicals because these chemicals–none of these existed on the planet prior to World War II–they're fairly recent invention and they have this unique chemical structure that makes them incredibly useful in a lot of different products, manufacturing operations, but also that same chemical structure makes them incredibly persistent and incredibly difficult to brea...
ROB BILOTT
March 30, 2022 16:51 - 97.5 MBRob Bilott is a partner in the Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky offices of the law firm, Taft Stettinius & Hollister LLP, where he has practiced in the Environmental and Litigation Practice Groups for over 31 years. During that time, Rob has handled and led some of the most novel and complex cases in the country involving damage from exposure to per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances (“PFAS”), including the first individual, class action, mass tort, and multi-district litigation proceedings inv...
(Highlights) BILL HARE
March 22, 2022 08:36 - 25.3 MB“Net-zero is a big idea. It’s a big theme. And, unfortunately, what's going up are many ways to look like you're doing net-zero when you're not. So in the ideal world, getting to net-zero means essentially reducing your emissions, and then, where you have residual emissions left, that means you might need to have negative emissions. For example, it's relatively easy to decarbonize the power sector completely, and you can do it quickly and cheaply in most places, but you’re always going to be...
BILL HARE
March 22, 2022 08:36 - 38.5 MBBill Hare is a physicist and climate scientist with 30 years of experience in science, impacts and policy responses to climate change and stratospheric ozone depletion. He is a founder and CEO of Climate Analytics, which was established to synthesize and advance scientific knowledge on climate change and provide state-of-the-art solutions to global and national climate change policy challenges. He was a Lead Author for the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Fourth Assessment R...
(Highlights) DR. LINDA BIRNBAUM
March 16, 2022 11:48 - 16.2 MB“Is this true that we test for fewer than 100 chemicals in water, but in fact, there are thousands that go untested?” “There are thousands just like there are in air, just like there are in food. We sometimes compartmentalize too much. We forget, but what is food? Food is made up of chemicals. And I think we need to be broader in our understanding because, for example, we all have on us and within us our Microbiomes and we think about the GI bacteria and we now know that if people are obese...
DR. LINDA BIRNBAUM
March 16, 2022 10:46 - 48.8 MBDr. Linda Birnbaum is a scientist emeritus and former director of the National institute of Environmental Health Sciences and of the National Toxicology Program. She is also a Scholar in Residence at the Nicholas School of the Environment of Duke University, and an adjunct full professor at Duke, University of North Carolina, and Yale University School of Public Health. She is the author of more than 1000 peer reviewed articles, book chapters, and reports. She is a member of the National Aca...
(Highlights) ROLAND GEYER
March 15, 2022 19:38 - 30.8 MB“So, if we study transportation, then we need to study urban development and infrastructure. Suddenly, we need to think about housing. We need to think about the co-location of jobs and shops, and you realize it's all connected. That might be one of the challenges of urban sustainability. It's all connected. So the way we move around is connected to the way we built the city. And I think the intrinsic sustainability or non-sustainability in urban areas seems to be designed in. Especially in...
ROLAND GEYER
March 15, 2022 18:39 - 81.9 MBRoland Geyer is a Professor at the Bren School of Environmental Science and Management, University of California at Santa Barbara, and the author of The Business of Less. Since 2000 he has worked with a wide range of governmental organizations, trade associations, and companies on environmental sustainability issues. His overarching goal is to help develop the knowledge, tools, and methods necessary to reduce the environmental impact from industrial production and consumption. · www.rolandg...
(Highlights) AZBY BROWN
March 12, 2022 12:36 - 30 MB“In Edo Japan, basically life was pretty good, and they recycled everything. Everything was reused, upcycled. Waste was considered taboo. A person who was wasting was considered an ugly person. So there is a lot that we could talk about: design, the layout, scale. Buildings were rarely taller than two stories. Very good use of environmental features, microclimates, use of wind for cooling, passive solar heating. Good use of planting, gardens, etc. But regarding cities of the future, I think ...
AZBY BROWN
March 12, 2022 12:35 - 111 MBAzby Brown is a leading authority on Japanese architecture, design, and environmentalism and the author of several groundbreaking books, including Just Enough, Small Spaces, The Japanese Dream House, The Very Small Home, and The Genius of Japanese Carpentry. He is lead researcher for Safecast, a global citizen-science organization that pioneered crowdsourced environmental monitoring. Azby Brown has lived in Japan since 1985. · azbybrown.com · www.safecast.org · www.oneplanetpodcast.org ·...
(Highlights) YOLANDA KAKABADSE
March 11, 2022 12:06 - 18.9 MB“I mentioned before that one of the reasons why we haven't been able to overcome many of the climate crisis factors is because people don't understand what it means. What is it about? What can I do? Usually, when we hear these experts speak about the climate crisis, at least me, I don't understand 9/10ths of the speech or the document. Simplifying the message, allowing that difficult scientific knowledge to become popular language that I can use when explaining to a child, to a rural person,...
YOLANDA KAKABADSE
March 11, 2022 12:06 - 111 MBYolanda Kakabadse’s work with the environmental conservation movement officially began in 1979, when she was appointed Executive Director of Fundación Natura in Quito, where she worked until 1990. In 1993, she created Fundacion Futuro Latinoamericano, an organization dedicated to promote the sustainable development of Latin America through conflict prevention and management. She was the Executive President until 2006 and remains as Chair of the Advisory Board. From 1990 until 1992, Yolanda K...
(Highlights) PAULA PINHO
March 10, 2022 10:53 - 28.1 MB“This is a very important question because cities are really living labs of everything that we're doing in terms of energy policy, and it’s extremely important that whatever we are putting forward in terms of policy, if it is not embraced by the citizens in cities on the local level, the best policies will not serve any purpose if they not really taken up by citizens. Of all of the Sustainable Development Goals, I think quality education is really the basis, I would call it really the foun...
PAULA PINHO
March 10, 2022 09:23 - 67.6 MBPaula Pinho is Director of Just Transition at the European Commission Directorate-General for Energy. She was responsible for Energy Strategy and Policy coordination and then for Renewables and Energy System Integration Policy and Decarbonisation and Sustainability of Energy Sources. She was Acting Director for Energy Policy where she has overseen notably the work of international energy relations, financial instruments and inter-institutional relations. Paula has also been Member of Cabine...
(Highlights) DAVID PALUMBO-LIU
March 05, 2022 14:09 - 9.36 MB“To explore different worlds, essentially. That’s what literature has taught me. Reading has taught me how difficult it is to write well, to do you something other than the mundane or the expected, so all those things point to a kind of human creativity and a human capacity to both create and also to learn. To learn about life in different ways and to pass on those lessons to other people. One thing I think great teachers do is to embody what they talk about, the values that they profess, th...
DAVID PALUMBO-LIU
March 05, 2022 14:09 - 82 MBDavid Palumbo-Liu is the Louise Hewlett Nixon Professor, and Professor of Comparative Literature, at Stanford University. He has written widely on culture, literature, human rights, and politics, both in his books and also in venues such as Truthout, The Guardian, Jacobin, The Nation, Al Jazeera, and others. · www.palumbo-liu.com Twitter: @palumboliu · www.oneplanetpodcast.org · www.creativeprocess.info
(Highlights) ASHLEY DAWSON
March 01, 2022 13:13 - 18.6 MB“The political struggle is really hard today and I feel like we haven't been winning, but I think it's important not to think of this as either we win it, or there's catastrophe and that's the end. We win or lose, and there’s this big tidal wave that kills us all. That's not the way the climate crisis is going to play out. It’s going to be a long, slow, attritional crisis punctuated by forms of natural disaster that will decimate populations, but it's also going to be something that people w...
ASHLEY DAWSON
March 01, 2022 13:10 - 90.7 MBAshley Dawson is currently Professor of Postcolonial Studies in the English Department at the Graduate Center, City University of New York (CUNY), and at the College of Staten Island/CUNY. He currently works in the fields of environmental humanities and postcolonial ecocriticism. He is the author of three recent books relating to these fields: People’s Power (O/R, 2020), Extreme Cities (Verso, 2017) and Extinction (O/R, 2016). Other areas of interest of his include the experience and liter...
PAULA PINHO
February 24, 2022 19:46 - 67.6 MBPaula Pinho is Director of Just Transition at the European Commission Directorate-General for Energy. She was responsible for Energy Strategy and Policy coordination and then for Renewables and Energy System Integration Policy and Decarbonisation and Sustainability of Energy Sources. She was Acting Director for Energy Policy where she has overseen notably the work of international energy relations, financial instruments and inter-institutional relations. Paula has also been Member of Cabine...
(Highlights) JEFFREY D. SACHS
February 24, 2022 10:10 - 22.2 MBJeffrey D. Sachs is University Professor and Director of the Center for Sustainable Development at Columbia University. He is President of the UN Sustainable Development Solutions Network, Chair of the Lancet COVID-19 Commission, Co-Chair of the UN Council of Engineers for the Energy Transition, Commissioner of the UN Broadband Commission for Development, academician of the Pontifical Academy of Social Sciences, and Tan Sri Jeffrey Cheah Honorary Distinguished Professor of Sustainable Develo...
JEFFREY D. SACHS
February 24, 2022 10:03 - 67.4 MB“If we’re badly educated, we’re not going to make it on this planet. If I had to put my finger on one Sustainable Development Goal above all else, it is let’s empower young people so that they know the future. They know the world that they’re going to be leading soon. They can do something about it…Specifically, target 4.7 which says that everybody should learn about sustainable development. Everybody should learn about global citizenship. If you’re in elementary school up to university, yo...
(Highlights) ADA LIMÓN
February 22, 2022 11:42 - 25.3 MB"This poem was written when I was having a real moment of reckoning, not that I hadn't had it earlier, but where I was doing some deep reading about the climate crisis and really reckoning with myself, with where we were and what was happening, what the truth was. And I felt like it was so easy to slip down into a darkness, into a sort of numbness, and I didn't think that that numbness and darkness could be useful." Ada Limón is the author of six books of poetry, including The Carrying, whi...
ADA LIMÓN
February 22, 2022 11:42 - 97.8 MBAda Limón is the author of six books of poetry, including The Carrying, which won the National Book Critics Circle Award for Poetry. Her book Bright Dead Things was nominated for the National Book Award, the National Book Critics Circle Award, and the Kingsley Tufts Poetry Award. Her work has been supported most recently by a Guggenheim Fellowship. She grew up in Sonoma, California and now lives in Lexington, Kentucky where she writes, teaches remotely, and hosts the critically-acclaimed poe...
(Highlights) BRUCE PIASECKI, PhD
February 15, 2022 21:47 - 18.4 MB“Each day you wake up you make decisions that shape your own fate, your ascent, position, your own creativity. I like to think of it as fate is a personal construct. When I was at Cornell they had me teach an Emerson essay called “Freedom and Fate” where he said that fate was so overwhelming in some traditions that it’s as though we were each involved in a shipwreck and we were each thrown off the ship and all we had a chance to do was look at each other. I’ve come to believe is that not onl...
BRUCE PIASECKI, PhD
February 15, 2022 10:00 - 94 MBBruce Piasecki, PhD., NYT bestselling author (A New Way to Wealth, Doing More with Teams, Missing Persons, 2040: A Fable), is founder of AHC Group, Inc. a global management consulting firm advising major corporations on social response capitalism, sustainability, and innovation. Piasecki has been an agent of climate solutions for over 40 years. He’s also co-founder of Creative Force Foundation, Inc which annually awards young writers globally on business and society issues. · www.doingmo...
(Highlights) KYLE HARPER
February 10, 2022 10:31 - 18.7 MB“Thinking about the future of the environments more broadly and the challenges of global development, we need to remember that freedom from infectious disease is not a privilege that is universally shared. And so in order to continue to improve global public health, it's vitally important that people in poor countries have access to opportunities for economic growth Human well-being is both a question of social development in a very holistic sense that people have jobs that provide adequate...
KYLE HARPER
February 10, 2022 10:14 - 102 MBKyle Harper is the G.T. and Libby Blankenship Chair in the History of Liberty, Professor of Classics and Letters, Senior Advisor to the President, and Provost Emeritus at the University of Oklahoma. Harper’s fourth book, Plagues upon the Earth: Disease and the Course of Human History, is a global history of infectious disease spanning from human origins to COVID-19. It tells the story of humanity’s long and distinctive struggle with pathogenic microbes. His scholarly works use natural sc...
CLAUDIA BUENO
February 02, 2022 10:00 - 76 MBClaudia Bueno is an internationally recognized Venezuela born artist renowned for creating immersive technological wonders using light, sculpture, painting and sound. Claudia creates large scale, multi-sensory experiences that communicate a profound sense of wonderment and awe. Lights, motors, wind, and video power her creations with pulsations and movements. Detailed drawings, meticulous cutouts and elaborate structures leave evidence of the intimate dedication the artist has with her work....
(Highlights) CLAUDIA BUENO
February 01, 2022 10:45 - 25.3 MB“Nature is my home because. It doesn't matter where I am. It’s available and it's there and it's always giving me the same sort of nourishment. All of us have had to develop a sense of home elsewhere. With me in particular, I've been traveling and living in different countries for the last 20 years since I was 22, so it's not even that I've had a geographical place that is my new home because I've moved around every four years. I'm in a new place a new community and new friends, so nature is...
(Highlights) GAURAV GUPTA
February 01, 2022 10:17 - 16.7 MB“How do you get people to have a sense of urgency to actually take action and do something different? What we're finding is the learnings from business very much do apply to other spheres and also more generally to challenges like climate change. We’re facing the question of how do you get more people to actually be willing to take real meaningful action.” Gaurav Gupta is Director of Kotter International · Change Management & Strategy Execution and co-author of Change: How Organizations Ach...
GAURAV GUPTA
February 01, 2022 10:00 - 46.1 MBGaurav Gupta is Director of Kotter International · Change Management & Strategy Execution and co-author of Change: How Organizations Achieve Hard to Imagine Results in Uncertain & Volatile Times. He translates strategy into implementation and develops learning-focused teams. Gaurav has worked with clients in industries as diverse as food and beverage, oil and energy, healthcare, chemicals, and finance. Gaurav draws on his extensive global (having worked in over 10 countries) and diverse func...
(Highlights) RICHARD D. WOLFF
January 28, 2022 10:05 - 12.8 MB“You can criticize many things in the United States, but there are taboos and the number one taboo is that you cannot criticize Capitalism. That is equated with disloyalty…This story about Capitalism being wonderful. This story is fading. You can’t do that anymore. The Right Wing cannot rally its troops around Capitalism. That’s why it doesn’t do it anymore. It rallies the troops around being hateful towards immigrants. It rallies the troops around “fake elections”, around the right to buy a...
RICHARD D. WOLFF
January 28, 2022 10:00 - 99.5 MBRichard D. Wolff is Founder of Democracy at Work and host of the show Economic Update. Professor of Economics Emeritus, University of Massachusetts, Amherst where he taught economics from 1973 to 2008. He is currently a Visiting Professor in the Graduate Program in International Affairs of the New School University, New York City. Earlier he taught economics at Yale University (1967-1969) and at the City College of the City University of New York (1969-1973). In 1994, he was a Visiting Profe...
(Highlights) ROB NIXON
January 21, 2022 10:05 - 27.6 MB“There are some recurrent threads in indigenous cultures across the world. One of those is–We don’t own the land. The land owns us. It’s not seen as property first. It’s seen as inalienable in that sense because you don’t own it in the first place. What we’re seeing now is a kind of movement where more and more indigenous people are living kind of amphibious lives. On the one hand, they have their indigenous cosmologies. And the other hand, in order to increase the likelihood that they can k...