Episode 80: What You Need To Know About Your Birth Control with Julia Abbiss

Did you know that the birth control pill can lead to clitoral shrinkage? Or that it can physically change your feelings of attraction to someone? Millions of people with female reproductive organs have been told by doctors to start taking birth control – whether it’s for pregnancy prevention, period cramps, or sometimes even acne. However, very few people are ever informed of the extensive side effects that come with taking this small pill. On this week’s episode we are joined by Julia Abbiss, the Impact and Associate Producer of The Business of Birth Control, a documentary that examines the complex relationship between hormonal birth control and women’s health and liberation. Julia shares the lesser talked about side effects of birth control and how it relates to the much larger issue of women’s wellness and reproductive rights.

The Business of Birth Control will be airing for FREE beginning Friday, February 4th, 2022 until Sunday February 6th, 2022. Whether you have been on birth control, know someone on birth control, or serve as an ally for women’s health and reproductive rights, this film is hugely important and you can see it this weekend for FREE! Click here to watch!

For more information, follow The Business of Birth Control on Instagram and Facebook, @businessofbirthcontrol. You can also check The Business of Birth Control on the web at: https://www.thebusinessof.life/the-business-of-birth-control

 

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Transcript

Alyssa Scolari [00:23]:

Hi friends. Welcome back to another kick ass episode of The Light After Trauma Podcast. I am your host, Alyssa Scolari. And I know I say this every week, but I'm going to say it again. I am so fucking excited for today's episode. Like extra, extra, extra excited. This is a guest episode and we have a very special guest with us today. And we are talking about one of my favorite topics of all time. So obviously you all know that I have been having lots of health issues lately, and you are all aware that I ... Well, at the time of recording, today is January 21st. And my surgery is on January 27th for suspected endometriosis. And by the time this comes out, it'll be about five days after my surgery. And you all know that I have had quite the struggle with going to doctor after doctor to try to get some answers for what I've been going through. I have had years of excruciatingly, painful period cramps.

And when I was 19 years old, I was put on birth control and basically told that that was something I'd have to be on for the rest of my life in order to manage my cramps. And the birth control caused so many issues in my body. And I'm still trying to recover from the health issues that I have. Now, I didn't realize that so many of my health issues were connected to the birth control that I was taking. Actually, I didn't find that out until this year. And part of who helped me to find that out is our very special guest speaker today. Her name is Julia Abbiss. I got that right, right Julia?

Julia Abbiss [02:31]:

You did. Good job.

Alyssa Scolari [02:32]:

I fucking nailed it. Yes. So Julia is the impact and associate producer of The Business of Birth Control, which is an upcoming documentary. It examines the complex relationship between hormonal birth control and women's health and liberation. Now, Julia is absolutely so much more than that. And I actually know Julia-ish. So like basically episode 27, which was a long time ago. If you have not listened to that episode, it is with Urvashi Banerjea on I believe the title is Cultural Whiplash. As many of you know, Urvashi, I met in 2010, our very first day of college and Urvashi has been one of my best friends and Urvashi is also best friends with Julia, and Julia and I absolutely because our friend Urvashi loves to have these like every single year for her birthday, she throws these like elaborate birthday parties, like Urvashi celebrates herself so hard, which is one of the many things we love about her. And I swear that Julie and I had to have hung out at some point, although neither of us can remember.

But regardless we have become connected through Urvashi and through this documentary called The Business of Birth Control. Urvashi had been telling me a lot about it. She told me to watch it and I watched it and it brought me to tears. Happy tears, sad tears, tears of relief and validation. And we are here to talk about it today. And I know I'm blabbing a lot, so I'm going to turn this over to Julia in a second. But before we get started, I do want to say this.

Everybody is different. Everybody's body works differently. And some people, their lives have been changed for the better on birth control. And that's okay. So we are not here today to tell you that what you're doing is wrong or horrible if that is what works for you. However, what we're here to do today is talk about the ways in which people with female reproductive rights might not be made aware of when it comes to taking birth control. That is the goal here today. It is not to shame you or make you feel bad for what you are or aren't taking. We are just trying to spread awareness in topics where honestly, there isn't a whole lot of advocacy, support or awareness. So with that being said, I know that was a hell of a long introduction. So I'm going to turn it over to Julia. Hello and thank you for being here today.

Julia Abbiss [05:19]:

Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for having me. And it's great to ... I don't know. I'm going to say meet you even though I'm sure we crossed paths at one of the 72 hour birthday celebrations.

Alyssa Scolari [05:34]:

No, literally. No, literally, I'm sure.

Julia Abbiss [05:38]:

But I really appreciate that disclaimer, because one thing we want the takeaway to be is that this documentary, this movement is all about informed consent and promoting body literacy. The more that we know about our bodies, the more we know about our cycles and our functioning, the more that we can advocate for ourselves in our doctor's offices, as well as our bedrooms and every other place that we inhabit. So I appreciate that.

Alyssa Scolari [06:05]:

Yeah, no absolutely. And we know that women in this world are not treated nearly as well or are not nearly as informed as men are. And so much of this documentary I think is also about that as well. And I guess I'm getting a little ahead of myself. So let me back up for a minute and just say like, so can you elaborate on like what your role is in this documentary and why you're so passionate about this?

Julia Abbiss [06:42]:

Sure. So I am the impact and associate producer, like you mentioned. Impact production is essentially growing the grassroots space around the film. So I work on our communications, on our events and getting partners just to make sure that we can reach as many people as possible on college campuses, high school campuses, and really anywhere where women and gender nonconforming people are. The beautiful thing about streaming online is that it can reach everyone everywhere. So just essentially working to make that happen. But I got involved in this project about three years ago. What started as a little communication contract evolved into an impact production role, which I'm so grateful and honored to be in. I was actually never on hormonal birth control. My mom had a adverse reaction to it back in the 80s and essentially scared me. So it was one of those, my mom's British. So she's like, "You are not going on those birth control pills." [inaudible 00:07:48] with barrier methods. And I've recently been introduced to the FAM method, or just FAM, which is fertility awareness method, which we can talk about later.

So yeah, I came into this of an understanding of some of the side effects that can happen, which have come to find that women really are not informed. And truly the only reason I know about it is because of my mother. When I think back to reproductive health education in high school is poor, just very ...

Alyssa Scolari [08:18]:

To say the least.

Julia Abbiss [08:19]:

Yeah. I mean, and it just sounds like your only option is to go on the pill. I remember feeling shame that I wasn't on it, feeling pressure from my boyfriend at the time to be on it. And yeah, just not really wanting to talk to anyone because girls would be like, "Oh, have to take my pill." And I'm like ... So kind of that second guessing of like, oh my gosh, like, should I be on it? Like I'm a feminist. Like this is advancing women's liberation, women's rights.

But in the back of my head, just knowing, like, I don't think I want to risk all these different side effects, whether it's my mood, whether it's physical, but really what I'm most excited for ... The impact of this film to me is just to act as a great validator for women and GNC folks who have been continuously gas lit by their doctor, by their partners, by their friend and family, to just say like, hey, these are side effects that you might not have known could even come from the pill or whatever hormonal contraceptive that they're on. So I think it's going to be pretty powerful. I'm a little scared for the backlash of it for people who don't watch it and make assumptions. But yeah, we'll see what happens.

Alyssa Scolari [09:38]:

And this film aired at the New York Film Festival.

Julia Abbiss [09:44]:

At DOC NYC. Yes. And it was so incredible because we had an in person screening, which thankfully we snuck in during a low COVID time. But I know it was so nice to be in person and to actually hear the audience take. When you're in the background, just watching all of these rough cuts, you're like, I think this is good but not really knowing because you're so steeped in it, what the actual response will be. But you heard people sniffling when it got really emotional, you heard them laugh at different points that are just so outrageous that they're funny.

Alyssa Scolari [10:24]:

Right. That you have to laugh, you have to laugh.

Julia Abbiss [10:27]:

Yeah. But you could really hear a pin drop. I mean, it was just this moment of like everyone in the audience is really absorbing it and taking it in. And what was incredible was afterwards, we were able to have it streaming on the DOC NYC platform for two weeks. And every single day we were top 10 most streamed film and the largest documentary festival in the country. So it just acted as a validator or for us that people want this information.

Alyssa Scolari [11:01]:

Yes.

Julia Abbiss [11:01]:

And it's so needed and you have one woman who watches it who's going to tell five of her friends who tell five of their friends and it speaks to feminist grassroots building at its core.

Alyssa Scolari [11:17]:

Oh it absolutely does. It absolutely does. And I know, I mean just the gaslighting when it comes to like being put on this pill. And gaslighting that I think so many of us didn't even know was gaslighting. I wasn't even aware of ... I knew that I was being written off by doctors, but I wasn't even aware of how much I was being written off by doctors until I watched this documentary a couple of months ago. And I recall sitting in ... This had to be back in September. I came off of birth control like several years ago when I was really in the thick of my battle with PTSD. I was seeing this psychiatrist who, and at this point I had been on birth control for probably like seven years like at this point.

And my psychiatrist at the time was like, "Hey, I know that you're experiencing like a ton of anger and like a lot of depression and like thoughts of self harm." And she was like, "Why don't we try coming off of the birth control and seeing how that changes your mood?" And I was like, "What? Like, what are you talking about?"

Julia Abbiss [12:39]:

Yep.

Alyssa Scolari [12:40]:

And like, what was I? Like 26? That was the first time I had ever heard a doctor say that some of my mental health symptoms could have been the birth control. And I had been battling for years with rage, with crippling depression, like an anger that I cannot even put into words, anger doesn't do it justice. It is this surging rage that was pulsing through my veins. And when my doctor suggested coming off, like I was like, I can't do that. Like I can't do that. I have really bad cramps. And she was like, "Well, why don't we see what's going on underneath the birth control with the bad cramps and see if we can try to manage it some other way?" Low and behold, I came off the birth control and my cramps became significantly worse and that's because I've had endometriosis and probably have had endometriosis for years. And I probably wouldn't be as sick as I am right now if it weren't for that birth control just kind of putting a bandaid on it for a decade.

But I remember a few months ago going to a doctor before I even suspected I had endometriosis and I was telling her how bad my cramps are. And this was an OB-GYN. And she was like, "Well, why don't you go on the pill?" And I was like, "No, I was a monster on the pill. I was not myself." And I had tried several different verse of the pill and she was like, "Well, that's kind of your only option." And I was like, "But the birth control pill does X, Y, and Z to me." She literally looked at me and she went, "No it doesn't. Where'd you get that from?" And I was like, "My own experiences." And she was like, "Well, it's either that or suffer" is literally what she said to me.

Julia Abbiss [14:44]:

It's so unjust. I'm so sorry that happened. But I can't tell you how many stories I've heard at this point that are exactly the same. It's so interesting. We were on Clubhouse for a time and any kind of live stream event that we host that has a Q&A. I mean, they could run themselves essentially, but like we were on a Clubhouse for three and a half hours because you just had woman after woman coming on saying, "This is what I've experienced. I know that this isn't myself. No one's listening to me. It's making my other symptoms worse. It's acting as a panacea when I know that they're just festering underneath. Just because I can't feel it, doesn't mean it's not there." And just on the mood part, it's so fascinating. And we've talked about this, but Dr. Sarah E. Hill, she has a book called This Is Your Brain On Birth Control and she's in our film. And she just goes into all of these mental health side effects that no one warns you about. And none of the mental health practitioners are really aware of, it seems.

If you're dealing with girls who are adolescent through, let's say mid 30s who are experiencing depression or just any type of mood symptom. One of the first questions that should be asked is are you on birth control?

Alyssa Scolari [16:12]:

Yes.

Julia Abbiss [16:14]:

Let's eliminate some things. There's this great quote in the film from a journalist who kind of blew the cover off of birth control in England. And she has this great line where she's like, "Once I got off of it, I realized that every emotion that I felt was my own." And it doesn't matter how many times I watch it. It just gives me goosebumps.

Alyssa Scolari [16:42]:

Oh yes. Yes. I was sitting at my kitchen table when I watched that and I was not prepared for the emotional toll that it would have on me. Feeling like the first time I'm in my life, but I was not alone in what I felt from that pill. Like it was hugely validating. And I'm wondering if you could talk a little bit about some of the side effects because 9 times out of 10, when women are given birth control, they are not told any side effects. And quite honestly, one of the side effects that people talk about the most and are the most worried about is weight gain. And that is the least important side effect. Like first of all, it's water, weight, birth control, there are really like no studies that show, I think to my knowledge, that birth control directly contributes to your body storing more fat in your body.

So yeah, all we really hear about birth control is, "Oh, I don't want to gain weight. Oh, I don't want to gain weight. I don't want to gain weight," which is more of an issue about the fat phobia that lives in society.

Julia Abbiss [18:01]:

That's another documentary we'll get into, yeah.

Alyssa Scolari [18:04]:

Right. That's another documentary, but I'm wondering like, would you be able to talk about some of the different side effects that the documentary sheds light on for birth control?

Julia Abbiss [18:15]:

Absolutely. So I would break it up into physical, emotional, and relational. So I'll start with relational, which is kind of the most shocking is that hormonal birth control can affect your pheromones. So essentially who you're attracted to. And there's this study that's done that we show in the film about the smell test. So you see women smelling, they're like a row of sweaty t-shirts. And whichever one that they're attracted to the most is the partner that they should be with. And it goes down into like a lot of biological things that I can't get into because frankly it's not my area of expertise. But it's fascinating that women have reported that who they're attracted to while they're on the pill is different from when they're off the pill. So I'll leave your listeners ...

Alyssa Scolari [19:10]:

Wow.

Julia Abbiss [19:12]:

I'll leave a minute for everyone to just side eye their partner quickly, but that's really just kind of the most fascinating one. Yeah. Then there's physical. And so in terms of physical, one of the most shocking ones for me to learn about was Clitoral shrinkage. So your clitoris can actually shrink up to, I believe 20%, which obviously affects the intensity of your orgasm. But I think what's really interesting is that you have these girls going on birth control, younger and younger, they're on it for a majority of their sexual lives. And they're not actually experiencing what an orgasm can be, which I think is really important.

Alyssa Scolari [19:12]:

Yes.

Julia Abbiss [20:06]:

As well as affects your libido, which is the greatest irony of them all. You're on this to not get pregnant so you can have sex and not worry about it, but turns out you actually don't want to have sex.

Alyssa Scolari [20:18]:

Repulsed by sex.

Julia Abbiss [20:20]:

Totally. I think it was, oh, Sarah Silverman went on her podcast recently and was talking about how she just came off the pill for the first time. And she's like, "I'm so fucking horny and I had no idea."

Alyssa Scolari [20:34]:

Yes. Absolutely.

Julia Abbiss [20:40]:

Yeah. Which it's also just a commentary of how we teach girls about their sexuality, about masturbation, about orgasming. I mean, if you had a pill for a man that said, by the way, this might get your dick to shrink and you're not going to want to have sex as much, would it [crosstalk 00:21:02].

Alyssa Scolari [21:03]:

No way.

Julia Abbiss [21:05]:

There's absolutely no way.

Alyssa Scolari [21:07]:

Absolutely. There's no fucking way. It might change who you're attracted to, it might shrink your dick, your orgasms aren't going to feel as good. Like the fuck ...

Julia Abbiss [21:21]:

You might have depression and a blood clot.

Alyssa Scolari [21:26]:

Blood clot. This could potentially kill you but here you go.

Julia Abbiss [21:32]:

Yeah. You're not actually feeling those things. I mean, you have to laugh when you like, look at this all on paper, like this is outrageous. So I do want to just clarify that when we are talking about this that's related to your disclaimer in the front. This is purely to say that these are side effects that you could be experiencing and just things to look out for. But birth control is ...

The one thing that I do want to mention is that two things can be true. And this is what I think we're trying to accomplish with this documentary, is that we can say this is a product that has been a game changer for women. It has liberated us in every sense of the word, but we're just asking for a better product. We don't want it to be unavailable. We don't want, off the market. Like we just want better birth control for women and GNC folks to take where they don't have to worry about this litany of side effects. I mean, there's a scene in the film where you have one of the parents of a woman who unfortunately lost her life while on the pill, just opening up the essential, like scroll of side effects in tiny print, trying to find what it was that her daughter died from. And we're just kind of envisioning a world where that's no longer the case.

Alyssa Scolari [23:06]:

Yes. And we're also asking for just basic accountability for what these side effects are, because also in the film, I recall and correct me if I'm wrong or if I'm like misinterpreting this, but this like scene where they're talking about how they've gone through the FDA, and have brought these problems to the FDA. And it's not just doctors. It's the fucking FDA who's like, we did a good enough job at warning people.

No, the fuck you did not. No, the fuck you did not. There's not a single doctor. Well, I shouldn't say not a single doctor, but the majority of doctors do not inform about any of the side effects. And when that person's coming back with severe depression, nobody thinks to ask about the pill. All these side effects might be listed in some extremely jargony impossible to understand terms in very fine print that you need a microscope to read on this huge scroll that comes in the package. And just in asking for accountability, like the FDA's like, no, there's no issue why we should change this. Like we did everything on our part. We're fine with women potentially losing their lives and living a lower quality of life as a result of this pill.

Julia Abbiss [24:35]:

Yeah. So there's a particularly infuriating and incredibly heartbreaking part of the documentary where we follow the journeys of these bereaved parents who are trying to get justice for their daughters. And you see them coming together under these really tragic circumstances to appeal at hearings and ask for black box warning labels. And even just to come together to figure out ways to educate other women so that it doesn't happen to them. The FDA is a beast, and it's really intimidating, but incredibly inspiring that these parents are ready and willing and are taking them on. We've heard from the different critics of the documentary. Like, this is such a low percentage of women will die from using hormonal birth control, which yes, it's true. In the grand scheme of things, incredibly low percentage. But try telling that to the parent, who's lost a child. The most unjust way too. I mean, you have otherwise healthy girls. And I think a part of it too, is that we're not testing anything before we prescribe.

I mean, someone who has an estrogen dominance shouldn't be prescribed an estrogen based pill, but we don't know that. Instead, we're like, "Okay, try this one. And if it's not really working for you, let's try another one." And part of it in the beginning, you see these women talking about which forms of birth control they're on and many can't name it. They don't know the brand, they're on their fifth one. I mean, it's just ... And that's [inaudible 00:26:27] of the privilege of changing your birth control pill. So there's so many things. I mean, you look at pharmaceutical budgets and a majority of their costs go towards advertising. And it's a very slim percentage that goes towards actual research. An even slimmer percentage when it goes towards research for medications that are taken by women. So it just is so, so very infuriating.

Alyssa Scolari [26:59]:

It's infuriating and it's sickening. And it doesn't matter that the fact that there are few women who have died, it doesn't matter because that's still somebody's child, somebody's potential mom, somebody's sister. It doesn't matter. And it's not like it's difficult to tell test women prior to putting them on a pill. Hormone testing, have we tested them for any potential clotting disorders, like a history of a clotting issue because they know that birth control can cause blood clots. And it's said so casually. Like, oh, this can cause blood clots. So you just want to like keep an eye out. How does one keep an eye out for a blood clot?

Julia Abbiss [27:49]:

That was the ... Well, I shouldn't say hilarious.

Alyssa Scolari [27:51]:

I mean, hysterical in a very morbid sense.

Julia Abbiss [27:55]:

Exactly. But during the Johnson & Johnson vaccine controversy where they're like, oh, we're going to entirely pull from the market because it caused blood clots in, I think it was like three, nine ... It was an even smaller percentage. And you saw Twitter ablaze with women like, oh my God. Like wait till America hears about the birth control pill. And it just showed like, you can actually take this off the market and test it and give it its due diligence. No, I don't know if you saw any of those Twitter threads, but it was pretty ...

Alyssa Scolari [28:36]:

Hysterical. Yes. Like, oh yeah, wait until they get a load of what the birth control pill does. We're we're taking Johnson & Johnson off the market for the three to nine people who have had blood clots. Like the number of women who have had issues on birth control was astronomically higher.

Julia Abbiss [28:55]:

Well, can I just tell you, so I got the J&J vaccine and literally two days later it was pulled because of those side effects. And I was like, are you fucking me?

Alyssa Scolari [29:01]:

Oh no.

Julia Abbiss [29:02]:

Like, I've avoided birth control this entire time.

Alyssa Scolari [29:07]:

And it's a fucking Johnson & Johnson shot that's going to do me in.

Julia Abbiss [29:11]:

Oh my God. Classic.

Alyssa Scolari [29:12]:

Son of a bitch. Oh God. And here's the other thing that I think is important to like touch base on. And there's another very simple way of tracking your cycle and being able to be your own form of birth control that's talked about in the film that women never get told. It's very, very fascinating how women are immediately put on a pill when this pill has many side effects, causes suicidality in women, decreases their quality of life, decreases their sex drive, can cause blood clots, all of these other issues, and gastrointestinal issues. That's the other thing we should say is that there's been a ton of research that shows that birth control is linked to gastrointestinal issues.

When I came off the pill after what? Seven years of being on it, I had gut issues that I am still trying to get under control. Like, I mean bad. But whatever. You guys know about my gut issues too. So all that, but what we don't tell women and what they're not given the choice to be like, oh, well, what you could do is also track your cycle yourself. Like there are tools out there that you can purchase where you can track your own cycle and gauge your own fertility. And part of that is because we live in a world that's like, you should be terrified of sex. And if you even think about sex, you're going to get pregnant. That's not actually the case.

Julia Abbiss [31:01]:

Yes. I was today years old when I found out that you could only get pregnant for essentially six days out of your cycle. And that just totally blew my mind. And it's so interesting because most women aren't told this until they're actually trying to get pregnant. So why aren't we using that six days cycle to inform when we can't get pregnant? So there's all these different devices now in the fem tech world, which is so fascinating and it's ever evolving that essentially you are able to track your cycle, to find out when that optimal window is. In which case, if you're trying to prevent pregnancy, you can use alternative barrier methods or anything else that works for you. Some women double up who they have a non-hormonal IUD and also do cycle tracking.

So like the birth control pill, it is the most effective when you are taking your temperature, your basal temperature every single day at the same time. There's research being done about connecting your Fitbit, your Apple Watch to track your temperature and sync it with your app so that you don't actually have to take your temperature every morning. And it like can like register when you're waking up so it takes your temperature immediately, which is honestly the problem that I've had. Because when I try taking my temperature, I have like no set sleep schedule. So my timing is always so off. I'm not like a reliable candidate when it comes to actual temperature taking.

But if you are meticulous and you're able to take it at the same time every day, and it is optimal when you do have a regular cycle, which I know eliminates a lot of people unfortunately. But I think that these different apps are coming out by female founders also, which is really inspiring that you have all these women who've experienced all these different adverse side effects and thinking surely there has to be a better way. And they're making that happen. So it's a movement that I really think we should all be paying attention to and seeing what's to come.

Alyssa Scolari [33:31]:

Yeah, absolutely. And this is a movement that's about, again, I just want to reiterate what we talked about at the beginning of this, which is that this is not about trying to shame you or make you feel bad if you have taken birth control and you have experienced great benefit from it. If you have, good for you. This is not about trying to erase birth control. This is about trying to spread awareness and help people become educated. And for me, watching that film, The Business of Birth Control, which is what this entire discussion is based off of, is it was hugely validating for me to know that so much of my depression and rage really wasn't me. And I have found in the work that I've done with so many of my clients who have female reproductive organs who were on the pill when they have come off of the pill, they are so completely different in terms of how they are able to manage their depression, their anxiety, their PTSD symptoms.

And now, so many of the conversations that I have with my clients are them being like, "Was I ever even depressed in the first place? Or was it the birth control that has made me depressed?" I have had clients come off of birth control and no longer require therapy because they are absolutely fine. So this is about spreading awareness. This is about promoting women's advocacy. This is about reproductive rights, and this is about fighting for your right as a woman or as a person with female reproductive organs to have a really good fucking sex life with yourself and with other people.

Julia Abbiss [35:24]:

Amen.

Alyssa Scolari [35:25]:

Like that is what this is about. And I strongly encourage you if you are listening to this today, I strongly encourage you even if you have male reproductive organs, if you identify as a ... Like, I strongly encourage you to watch this anyway, because we also need you as allies to help advocate. So much of the advocacy I've had to do for myself, I know I wouldn't have been nearly as effective if my husband weren't standing by my side, learning about birth control as well. So get on board with this and we actually have a way for you to be able to see this film. Julia, can you talk about that?

Julia Abbiss [36:12]:

Yes. So we have a 48 hour free screening opportunity starting on Friday, February 4th, going till Sunday, the 6th. And you can sign up on our website. Again, it's for free at thebusinessof.life. I don't know if you're able to link that in your show notes.

Alyssa Scolari [36:32]:

I sure am. And today is February 1st. Well, if you are listening to this on the day that the podcast launches, then it is Tuesday, February 1st. And so we have just days and this film will be airing for free. The link will be in the bio. I highly encourage you to go check it out. Whether you are a mental health professional, this can help you, whether you are somebody who's taken birth control before, this can help you, whether you are somebody who is married to somebody or who is in a relationship with somebody or knows somebody who has been on the pill, this can help you. So the link will be in the bio. And Julia, thank you so much for your time, for your expertise, for having such a incredible role in the making and creation and promotion of this film. Because this is really helping women to, I think, feel a sense of solidarity. I know that's what I felt when I watched it. Hugely validated and so not alone. So thank you.

Julia Abbiss [37:39]:

Thank you so much, Alyssa. I really appreciate it and loved being on your show. Thank you.

Alyssa Scolari [37:46]:

Thanks for listening everyone. For more information, please head over to lightaftertrauma.com or you can also follow us on social media. On Instagram, we are @LightAfterTrauma. And on Twitter, it is @LightAfterPod. Lastly, please head over to patreon.com/lightaftertrauma to support our show. We are asking for $5 a month, which is the equivalent to a cup of coffee at Starbucks. So please head on over. Again, that's patreon.com/lightaftertrauma. Thank you and we appreciate your support. [singing]