Episode 72: Redux - Loving Someone with Complex PTSD with David and Alyssa Scolari

In this old episode, Alyssa brings her husband, David, on the show to discuss the challenges that can come with supporting a loved one with PTSD. David offers advice for supporters on how they can aid their loved ones on their path to recovery while also taking time to care for themselves.

Due to some health issues this week, we are doing a repeat of Episode 26. We'll be back next week with the new regular content you enjoy!

 

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Transcript:

Alyssa Scolari:

Hi friends, hope everybody's off to a wonderful week. I am just popping on for a few minutes today to let you know that there will be no official new episode this week. This is the first time that we are pulling a repeat episode, so we are going to be sharing the episode that I did with my husband, David, on loving somebody with PTSD or more specifically complex PTSD. This is a really good episode. It's one that David and I did together, and I hope that you all enjoy it.

Alyssa Scolari:

The reason that there is no podcast episode this week is because quite frankly, it has been a pretty horrible week. I had planned to share with you all a little bit about what has been going on, and I have been, I know I've been touching on the fact that I've had some health issues lately in my previous episodes, and I was really hoping to be able to record a solo episode so that I could share what I'm going through with you all, especially off the heels of having my doctor's appointment.

Alyssa Scolari:

We had a doctor's appointment and we got some kind of just bad news and it's nothing life threatening, of course, so I'm not dying or anything like that, but all in all, it's just very upsetting news. It's news that we were kind of anticipating, but upon hearing it, it definitely didn't help, and I think the weight of everything really set in for both my husband, David and myself. David and I are the ones that run the podcast and David does all the editing, and I think that he's kind of having a rough time as well. Yeah, it's just been a really difficult week.

Alyssa Scolari:

I will be back next week and hopefully I will have had time to process everything and then I will update you all on what's going on, but right now I'm just not feeling the best. Again, while I was hoping to be able to chat with you all about what's been happening, this weekend definitely looked a lot more like me hanging out in my PJs with my dogs, just being in the grief of all of it. I love you all. I am holding you all in the light and I ask that you all hold me in the light as well right now because things are pretty tough, but I will be back now next week, and I appreciate your patience and I hope that you enjoy this episode.

[singing]

Alyssa Scolari:

Hey everybody, I feel like I need a new introduction. Because for every episode I'm like, "Hey everybody." And I sound so cheesy.

David Scolari:

No, we got to stay on brand. That is part of the brand and we're going with it, baby.

Alyssa Scolari:

No, it's too cheesy. Welcome everybody. No, that's really, that's terrible too. Anyway guys, hello guys, girls, they, them, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Light After Trauma podcast, I'm your host Alyssa Scolari, and as you may or may not already be able to tell, we are doing an episode with the man behind the scenes today, my husband David. He is the editor of the podcast and the technology guru. Most importantly, I'm married to him. Hi Dave.

David Scolari:

Hello.

Alyssa Scolari:

The reason behind this is because as much as I think it's very important to give a voice to trauma survivors, I think it's also equally important to give a voice to the ones who are on the sidelines supporting us and loving us through our PTSD recovery journey. I thought that it might be helpful for folks if David came on the podcast today to share a little bit about what it's like to love somebody through PTSD. Yeah, here's Dave.

David Scolari:

Hey everybody. How are we all doing today?

Alyssa Scolari:

I can't, I'm going to have to edit that part out.

David Scolari:

Dave, edit that part out. You watch that rat bastard. He'll leave that right in there.

Alyssa Scolari:

I guess I'll just start firing questions at you.

David Scolari:

Go right ahead.

Alyssa Scolari:

It's so weird because I've actually never done a podcast that somebody sitting in the same room as me. March 23rd will be three years that we've been married.

David Scolari:

Yes ma'am.

Alyssa Scolari:

When I first met you, we met in 2016.

David Scolari:

Indeed.

Alyssa Scolari:

Did you have any idea that I had a history of trauma?

David Scolari:

Not a fricking clue.

Alyssa Scolari:

When did you find out? Do you want to talk about from your perspective how it all went down?

David Scolari:

Yeah. I guess probably the first time I knew that you had been through something was I think were driving to my aunt and uncle's down in Long Beach Island. On the drive there, you nervously told me that you were seeing a therapist for some things, and I'm sure you were like, oh my gosh, I'm going to tell this guy and he's going to be like, "Get out." In the middle of the Pine Barrens and drive away never to be seen again.

Alyssa Scolari:

I did. It was so funny. I dropped that on you like, to the listeners out there, when we were dating, I at first didn't tell him I was in therapy because at the time I guess I embraced the shame and stigma around being in therapy, which I no longer do. I now have no problem and will tell the whole world, obviously, that I'm in therapy, but I was a different person back then. What I did was I waited until we were in the car, so you couldn't abandon me. We were on a barren road where there was no cellphone service. I don't think consciously I was doing that on purpose, but I think subconsciously I was definitely like, "All right, I'm going to trap him, tell him I'm in therapy and there's nowhere for him to run."

David Scolari:

For folks who aren't familiar, in South Jersey, there are what we call the Pine Barren forests, and when you're driving through A, yes, there is no cell phone reception, B, there's like nobody out there, no houses, no towns, no convenience stores for long stretches of the road. So yeah, you're not turning around, you're not going anywhere, you can't just drop somebody off there. I mean, unless, I don't know, you were the mafia and you were doing something down there, but anyways, so yeah.

Alyssa Scolari:

Yeah. I made it so that you couldn't leave me, but even then I didn't tell you that I had a history of trauma because I didn't know.

David Scolari:

Right. Yeah. I mean, that's the first time I knew you had some things you were going through or working through-

Alyssa Scolari:

Eating disorder wise.

David Scolari:

Right.

Alyssa Scolari:

But when in your recollection were we talking about the fact that I then had PTSD? I don't think it wasn't until after we were married.

David Scolari:

Yeah. Because I don't think you really uncovered your trauma and kind of started to come to terms with some of it until after we were married.

Alyssa Scolari:

Conveniently.

David Scolari:

Which, by then, we were locked in baby and I wasn't going anywhere.

Alyssa Scolari:

Which obviously we kid. Part of the reason why I really thought, again, that it would be helpful to have David on here is because he sort of has been through this process with me and he can look at it from a different lens. He didn't know what he was walking into. Obviously, we got married and then it wasn't until shortly after we got married that I started to have all of these memories come to the surface. Can you tell me what that was like for you? Because there's so much I truthfully don't remember because I was in such a bad place.

David Scolari:

Yeah. I mean, obviously you were, it's tough, right? Because you have your good days and your bad days and some days we were just in the middle of doing something random, watching TV, going out somewhere, talking to somebody, hanging out, and you can start having those memories flood back into your consciousness there. I'll be very honest, I would say probably the word to use would just be unexpected, because with the recovery process and remembering things, you don't, there would just be days again where it, just out of the blue you would be angry, you would be sad, you would be enraged, you would be all sorts of emotions and I would kind of just be blindsided by it. Yeah, it was never consistent in terms of when you would uncover stuff and remember things and then have all those emotions associated with that. Sometimes, you wouldn't even know why you're crying or being mad or angry just because you were dissociating or other things. It would just come out of the blue.

Alyssa Scolari:

What was that like for you being on that kind of roller coaster?

David Scolari:

I mean, I think the word roller coaster is an apt kind of way to describe it. It can be challenging sometimes, because it can just come out of the blue and sometimes no matter the words that I say or the actions that I take, it's just sometimes a process where we got to cry it out. We got to yell it out, scream it out, and let your body kind of just process in the moment what you were remembering or going through or the things you were feeling.

Alyssa Scolari:

I'm sure that for those of you listening, if you have loved ones who have PTSD or complex PTSD and are going through this journey or did at one point, this is probably all sounding very familiar to you where it's like, especially if you're married to that person or that person is your romantic partner, it's sort of like one minute we're talking about something that's seemingly not emotional, he's asking me what I want for dinner and I'm curled up in a ball and the couch sobbing because I can't make up my mind. I'm frustrated because now I'm having flashbacks of other times when I couldn't make up my mind in the middle of a trauma. He's like, "What? I just asked you if you wanted pizza or spaghetti." And I'm balling and it's comical in retrospect. Right?

I mean, wouldn't you say like it's funny in retrospect? But, let me tell you something. When somebody asks you if you want, or if you're that person that's like, "Hey babe, do you want pizza for dinner or would you like chicken?" And that person just curls up into a ball and sobs, it's, I think, extremely stressful and extremely taxing. Right? Then, on top of it, we had the pandemic. We've been stuck. Not stuck, because I like you. I mean I love you. I'm such a jerk. We've been in this house for, which our house is not big. It's very small, very close corners, close corners, or close quarters?

David Scolari:

Quarters.

Alyssa Scolari:

Oh, okay. Well, there we go.

David Scolari:

Dave, edit that out.

Alyssa Scolari:

Yep. Edit that out, Dave. We've really not had any time apart, and I've still been going through quite a bit. Does that, like are there times where you're just at your wit's end?

David Scolari:

Oh, yeah. I mean, sure. Sometimes, again, just because what you're remembering, what you're feeling, or what happened that has brought forth, whether it's at your job or whatever, has kind of brought forth memories. Sometimes, I'm trying to calm you down, I'm trying to get you grounded again. Sometimes I can say things and it helps ground you. Sometimes what I say doesn't help ground yet.

Alyssa Scolari:

Sometimes it makes it worse.

David Scolari:

Sometimes the dogs do a much better job of grounding you than I do. In fact, they probably way, way better.

Alyssa Scolari:

I like my pets.

David Scolari:

Indeed.

Alyssa Scolari:

What are some things that you think people can do when they see their loved ones struggling when they see their loved ones dissociating, because this has been a learning process for you as well. This isn't something that I've been going through by myself. I've been going through it with you. Although, at times it feels like I'm by myself. What are some things that you have learned along the way that could help?

David Scolari:

Probably, one, patience. I think even in when I go, "Do you want Wendy's or McDonald's?" And you then start bawling out on the couch. I'm like, "Oh, this this ... Oh, okay. We can go someplace else." But no, when that happens, I think the first thing that even sometimes when I'm like, "Ooh, this is like the third time today where we're having a meltdown." There's part of me, that's like, "Ooh, not again, here we go." Part of what helps get me through it is to realize that it's not you. It's the people or events that have caused the trauma that is now welling up inside of you. To recognize that it's not you being a bad person or anything like that, but it's those events and those people. It really helps put it into context and allows me to go, "Okay, hey, maybe this is the third time we're bawling our eyes out on the couch today, but that's okay. We have a rollercoaster ride ahead of us and we'll be there and get through the ups and the downs." I think that's one, just kind of having that context.

Alyssa Scolari:

Just reminding yourself and reframing like, "This is not that person. This is that person's trauma. That person is not fully present right now."

David Scolari:

Yep. Not letting the trauma define the person, you in this particular case. I think that's hugely important for anybody, that reframing that, putting it into context really allows you to see the person that you've fallen in love with.

Alyssa Scolari:

Well, how is it that you know and are able to tell when I'm dissociated, or when I'm not present? And how are you able to tell it's the trauma? Because I think some people out there, and I think, you don't have a background in trauma, right? You have no degree in trauma. This has been such a learning experience. I think that there are a lot of people out there that have zero experience with trauma, have a loved one who's been through trauma and like, how are they supposed to tell if it's dissociation and how are they supposed to calm their own defenses? How can they educate themselves? How can they calm their own defenses? Because I'm sure there are times when I am dissociated and there have been times where we have fought and you have lost your patience. What would you recommend for somebody who just has no understanding of even what dissociation is?

David Scolari:

Yeah. I think it's really having a conversation with the person who is going through that trauma, whether it's a friend or spouse or whatever. I think for you and me in particular, having conversations either outside of your episodes of crying or anger or whatever.

Alyssa Scolari:

After I've calmed down and grounded myself a little bit.

David Scolari:

Yeah. I mean, honestly I think it's ... I think I've learned the most, and again, maybe this isn't for everybody, but I've always learned the most about what you've been through and what you're thinking, or have felt at the time like right after we've kind of grounded you a bit and gotten you to a point where you've calmed down a bit, then we're able to like, we have some really good conversations that can go from anywhere from five minutes to maybe an hour or more. We kind of just break down like what you were feeling, what memories came back, and that has really helped me put things into context in terms of, "Oh, okay, this is what triggered this thought.' Or, "This is what welled up inside of you." That's really just added more and more context over the years that I've known you and we've been going through this process and yeah, just really helps put it all into context.

Alyssa Scolari:

I think one of the biggest takeaways from that is this, the concept that it's not going to be helpful to talk it out in the moment always. It's really important to try to help that person when they're really triggered or really dissociated to get to a state of calm first, because when I'm dissociated, there's really no talking it out with me because you won't win. Whatever you say, I hate it. In that moment you're not David, right, in my eyes. You're one of my abusers. In that moment, I can't stand you. Whatever you say is going to be wrong. It's going to make me worse. I'm not going to like it. I'm going to say something that's going to trigger you. Then, that's how blow ups happen. One of the things that you've really learned, which I think is going to be helpful for people to hear, is that it's not really about talking it out in the moment. It's about what can we do to ... How can I help this person to ground themselves and calm down, and then we will revisit this later.

David Scolari:

Absolutely. What, and I think you you've said this often, especially sometimes in the moment. Me, I'm a very logical sort of person.

Alyssa Scolari:

Ugh, are you ever.

David Scolari:

I always try and talk things out and you're like, "Listen, I totally, logically, get what you're saying. I hear you David, but I don't, like I can't feel that." With the disassociation, you may hear the words, you may agree with the words in some part of your brain, but another part of your brain is just blowing up and being like, "I don't care what you're saying. I'm just in this space right now where I'm hearing it, but I'm not processing it."

Alyssa Scolari:

Yeah. I think that's exactly it. Going back to even something that might not seem trauma related, like when we first got married and we, as David said, he is all about logic and I am all about like flying by the seam of your pants. Like, okay, let's not look at our bank account. Let's just get on a plane and go on vacation. David's like, "Okay, but the budget." Right? Speaking of budgets, when we first got married, he was like, "Okay, well let's create a budget." Because we really did not have, I mean, we were very poor when we, I think it's fair to say.

David Scolari:

Oh yeah.

Alyssa Scolari:

Yeah, we were extremely, extremely poor when we first started out.

David Scolari:

Nonprofits, surprisingly, don't pay a lot of money.

Alyssa Scolari:

Who would've thought? We both met working in a nonprofit and in that nonprofit I was an employee and David was a volunteer. We really were making like the salary of one person working at a nonprofit.

David Scolari:

Right. Probably more like a salary of somebody working at McDonald's or Wal-Mart.

Alyssa Scolari:

Yes, we were essentially making minimum wage. David was like, "Budget. We got to look at a budget." I, for, and now I kind of understand, I understand a lot more why now, but this is like three years removed. Back then, when we talked about a budget, I lost my ever loving shit. I mean, like shut down, cried hysterically, or got mad at him because he wanted to do a budget and I would refuse. That was a point of contention, like one of the biggest points of contention in our marriage, I think, when we first started out. It was a huge trigger for me. Now I understand why, but back then I had no idea.

Again, it's not always helpful to try to figure it out in the moment, because logically I knew we had no money. I knew we had a ton of debt. And I knew that budgeting was the only way that we were going to be able to sustain ourselves. Emotionally, I mean, my emotions took over and I was incoragable. You couldn't talk to me about budgeting at all. I thought, I mean, I thought you were going to kill me. I'm sure you want to do at times. Because he would just say the B word, he would say budget, and he could just, right?

David Scolari:

Oh yeah.

Alyssa Scolari:

Like, you could just see the change in me.

David Scolari:

Yeah.

Alyssa Scolari:

You might not have the answers. You might not be able to talk it out in the moment, but I also think it helps you've learned a lot coming to therapy with me. It helps that I'm a trauma therapist so I've been able to teach you a lot about trauma. For the listeners out there, I don't think everybody kind of has that luxury of happen to be dating or married to somebody who specializes in trauma. One of the things that I think helped you and could help other people out there is go to therapy with your partner.

David Scolari:

Or find maybe like a support group or something.

Alyssa Scolari:

Yes. Because, it's very hard. If you are the one supporting the person through their recovery journey, it is very, very difficult and very taxing on the relationship. David has come to therapy with me. I think you learned a lot. You've read books on trauma. I think you've even learned a lot through editing this podcast.

David Scolari:

Yeah. Also, the nonprofit we worked for did a lot of trauma informed sorts of trainings, even though I myself am not a therapist. All employees did a lot of that sort of training because they wanted to be a trauma informed organization.

Alyssa Scolari:

Yep. Pick up a book, go to therapy, find a support group, because it's so important to recognize that this is very taxing for our loved ones who are trying to support us through this. What are some ways that you have found that help me and could potentially help other people with trauma, like ground themselves in the moment?

David Scolari:

Sure. I mean, listen, sometimes I am able to just talk it through a little bit and get you grounded that way. I would say the other way would, I mean honestly, be the dogs. I mean, they do the most ridiculous things during some of your most intense episodes there and it just causes us to laugh. I think that that moment of our dogs laying in the most awkward position possible coming up and licking your face or doing other things just gives that two second break in what you're going through, that dissociation, and kind of makes you laugh for a little bit.

You might still be in that dissociation a little bit, but then I see really that you start to come down off of that dissociation because just the dogs and the situations and the things that they do or just they coming up and you petting them just really helps calm you down and kind of grounds you. Sometimes pets, other kind of external stimulus that can be, I don't know, relaxing, or just to kind of break that tension there in a dissociation, I think, can be really helpful or has been helpful for you.

Alyssa Scolari:

Yeah. I mean, I think redirecting me, sometimes you will get me out of the room that I'm in. Sometimes you'll encourage me to take a bath. Sometimes he will encourage me to work out even when I don't want to, and I might curse the entire time, but then after I do it, I feel better. I think that you help in a big way by taking care of a lot of like the, kind of like the mundane tasks around the house and making sure that I'm like fed and hydrated and taking my meds. You do a lot. I mean, there's a lot that you do that helps me be able to manage all of this. But with that being said, sometimes I think that supporters of those who have trauma, if they take on too much, then their plate gets overwhelmed and there is only so much you can take. Right?

One of the reasons why the dogs helped me so much, just because dogs have never hurt me, right? Men have hurt me. Men have abused me. That's why sometimes, as great as you are, you're still a symbol for everything that has hurt me. Sometimes I want nothing to do with you. Sometimes I just need to be with my dogs. Sometimes, I will just verbally kind of assault you. What would you recommend for somebody who's in that position? For somebody who's sort of trying to support their loved one through their PTSD journey, but is also like, okay, I'm kind of at the end of my rope here as well, because I think we get to those spots too as a couple where it can be you're at the end of your rope, I'm at the end of my rope. Okay. Well now what? What do you recommend?

David Scolari:

I think the key here is really taking care of yourself. Yes. We're going to say that word self care, or maybe it's two words. Is it? Is it two words or is it one word, hyphenated?

Alyssa Scolari:

It's two words.

David Scolari:

Two words. All right, well.

Alyssa Scolari:

Self-care for you.

David Scolari:

Self-care for me, yes.

Alyssa Scolari:

Yes.

David Scolari:

I don't know, reading a book, playing video games, watching my own show that I like or something like that can just give me that mental little break to help me recover a little bit so that the next time you're having an disassociation or whatever, I'm mentally refreshed. I think that's key is, yes, taking care of the person who has that trauma, of course. Cleaning or cooking or making sure the person is taking their meds and encouraging them, sitting through with them as they go through a dissociation or an episode or whatever, those are all things that are important to do. You also, there is something to be said when we hear about self care is you got to take care of yourself before you can take care of somebody else. If you're not eating, if you're not taking a mental break, if you're not doing X, Y, or Z for yourself, that helps you physically and mentally, you're not going to be able to take care of the other person. I think that really is key, to do stuff for yourself. Whatever that may be.

Alyssa Scolari:

Yeah. I think that that's important because the supporters of those who are in recovery can't pour from an empty cup. I just want to be clear that what we're saying here is not drop everything that's important to you as the supporter and take care of the person going through recovery. It's trying to find a balance of supporting your partner while also taking care of yourself. Wouldn't you agree?

David Scolari:

Yes, ma'am.

Alyssa Scolari:

But then I also think that even with all of that being said, right, there are going to be times where it's still going to feel like too much. At that point there also, I think, should be a discussion. Wouldn't you agree?

David Scolari:

Yeah, sure.

Alyssa Scolari:

What does that discussion look like? It's not like, "I don't love you and can't help you anymore." Right? But also, like, you can't be expected as the supporter to lay down and kind of take, especially if you're the target, right? Just because we're supporting somebody through PTSD recovery doesn't mean that we kind of lay down and a doormat and allow ourselves to be targets for their anger or rage or whatever it may be. Sometimes we do that as trauma survivors. I do it. I've done it to Dave quite a few times. What do you recommend for people who find themselves in that position, but are afraid to speak up for fear that like, well, this person's already going through so much. I don't want to tell them that what they did hurt my feelings.

David Scolari:

Yeah. I mean, I think once that person has calmed down and grounded themselves, I think it's perfectly acceptable to then kind of go up and say like, "Hey, listen, I know you were going through that dissociation and whatnot. You were saying X, Y, and Z things because of the trauma you had in the past, but that really hurt." Or, "I didn't like the way you did this or said that." Because I think that's important because everybody's a human being, right? We all make mistakes and we all have feelings and emotions, whether we've been through trauma or not. You, as the support person, are more, are entitled to your feelings and entitled to respect and whatnot.

We can understand that the person or the loved one, whoever they are, has been through trauma and is saying these things, again, as we mentioned earlier in the episode. Context is important and we can understand that they're saying this yelling, screaming, crying, saying things to you that may hurt your feelings because, not because again they're a bad person, but because they have had bad things done to them. That being said, you also are a human being who has emotions. You also are entitled to respect and to love and all that stuff. Yeah. Sometimes just saying it and hearing, being able to say like, "Oh yeah, I'm sorry. I didn't mean it. I just was in the dissociation." Like, listen, I know that, I don't get, my feelings may be hurt, but at the end of the day I know it's not you being bad or trying to be mean to me intentionally. Yeah. But even just hearing that sorry, and like, yeah, that was a bridge too far just reaffirms that that love and respect that you have for me And I have for you when helps me move on.

Alyssa Scolari:

I guess my last question for you is of, it's been such a difficult process and such a hard thing for you to see me through and for me to go through, obviously. What would you say, because I noticed, and I think about this often that if you hadn't seen me through this, you'd be a very different person today. What about you and who you are has changed for the better because of what I've gone through and what you've supported me through?

David Scolari:

I think I've, one, become more open about talking about my feelings, which is something that I didn't do before I met you. I generally, I'm a private person. I don't like to talk about those things, but having met you-

Alyssa Scolari:

I'm doing a happy dance right now because it's so true. You didn't like to talk about anything.

David Scolari:

No, that's true.

Alyssa Scolari:

Now, here you are pulling stuff out of me. Sorry, I said I wasn't going to steam roll and I'm steam rolling. Go on.

David Scolari:

No, go right on ahead. It's your podcast. You can do what you want. Yeah. I think, one, talking about my feelings more, whether it's related to something that happened during a dissociation episode, or just something that happened at work or in life in general, just talking more about that, which I think has been extremely helpful for me to kind of be able to talk about and process those things. That's certainly something that's helped me keep me grounded and sane and whatnot. I think at the end of the day, as I learned more and more about you and I love you more each and every single day. Yeah. I think, I know when we started dating and whatnot you were always afraid of, "Well, if I tell him this happened to me or that I'm in therapy or this, he'll love me less." But I don't, I love you more each and every single day.

Alyssa Scolari:

It's given you a lot more patience.

David Scolari:

Indeed.

Alyssa Scolari:

I think it's helped to you to get to know me on a deeper level.

David Scolari:

Mm-hmm[affirmative].

Alyssa Scolari:

It's helped me like in the same regards, it's helped me to get to know you on a deeper level as well. Well, thank you. I appreciate you coming on here, because I know that you're more of a behind the scenes kind of guy. But, it's definitely important. To all the trauma survivors out there, tell your supports how much they mean to you and to the ones who are listening who are supporters, you mean the world to us. We couldn't get through this process without supports in our lives. Thank you. As difficult as it may be sometimes, and I just want to point out that this is David's perspective. This is one person's perspective. Somebody else might feel differently about it. That's okay too.

If anybody has any questions about what we talked about and questions for David, please feel free to reach out. You can reach out on my Instagram or my Facebook, or you can email me or go on my website, which is just the Alyssascolari.com. Feel free to ask questions, because this, I think, is a really important topic and not one that we have talked enough about. With that being said, very thankful for my husband, for Dave, for everything that he does for me. The podcast would not be possible without him. Yeah, I think that's all we got. I think that's a wrap.

David Scolari:

That's a wrap.

Alyssa Scolari:

The last thing that I wanted to just let you all know is that I have started a Patreon. You will see it in the show notes. We have really, really enjoyed, well, I have really enjoyed creating this podcast and creating this awesome content for all of you. I am honestly shocked that in less than six months this podcast has just taken off. It's taken off in ways that I never thought that it would. As it's gotten bigger and bigger, it's requiring much more time, much more effort, and quite a bit of money. I did start a Patreon. If you like what you hear and you are interested in contributing at all to that, I would greatly appreciate it. Any little bit counts and all the money goes towards really just helping to keep this content awesome. As great as it is, keep it high quality and to just keep things rolling out smoothly on a weekly basis. Just wanted to let you all know about that.

Again, any contribution would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening everyone. For more information about today's episode, and to sign up for the Light After Trauma newsletter, head over to my website at Alyssascolari.com. The really great thing about being a part of this newsletter is that not only do you get weekly updates on new podcast episodes and blog posts, but you also get access to the private Facebook community as well as access to all sorts of insider tips, resources, and info graphs that supplement what we talk about on the show. You also can connect with me and other trauma warriors. I'm super active on the Facebook community. I look forward to talking with you.

[singing].