Eavesdrop on Experts artwork

Eavesdrop on Experts

123 episodes - English - Latest episode: almost 3 years ago -

Overhear researchers talk about what they do and why they do it. Hear them obsess, confess and profess - changing the world one experiment, one paper and one interview at a time. Listen in as seasoned eavesdropper Chris Hatzis follows reporters Dr Andi Horvath and Steve Grimwade on their meetings with magnificent minds. Made possible by the University of Melbourne.

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Episodes

Science, society and drug design

November 27, 2019 01:00 - 23 minutes

Now a professor of biochemistry at the University of Cambridge, in 1969 Sir Thomas Blundell was one of the first people to see what the hormone insulin looked like. As part of the team led by Nobel Prize winner Dorothy Hodgkin, it was a medical breakthrough for diabetes patients everywhere. “I was always interested in doing a range of different things,” Professor Blundell says. “I came from a family where my grandfather was a very gifted artist and musician. And although my parents left sch...

Exposing the Hepatitis B virus

November 13, 2019 01:00 - 24 minutes

The hepatitis B virus causes liver inflammation that, despite treatment, still leaves people at greater risk of developing liver disease and cancer. While it can be effectively vaccinated against, there is no cure. Researchers Professor Peter Revill and Dr Thomas Tu are on front line of global efforts to find a cure; helped by Dr Tu developing a new method to better detect the virus’ ‘master blueprint’. For Dr Tu, who was diagnosed with the disease as a teenager, finding a cure for Hep B is...

The artistry of geology

October 30, 2019 01:00 - 21 minutes

You might not know it, but Melbourne has little earthquakes, even in the city centre and quite frequently. So says Michael Webster, engineering geologist at consulting, design and construction company, Golder Associates, and guest lecturer for the Master of Engineering at the University of Melbourne. “A lot of people know about the earthquakes down in Gippsland or the Otways, but actually in Melbourne itself, there have been earthquakes. You’d have to be a seismic instrument to actually feel ...

Knowledge sharing for health and wellbeing

October 14, 2019 19:00 - 25 minutes

A lot of Aboriginal people don’t necessarily feel comfortable accessing health services, explains Gwenda Freeman, Associate Lecturer in Aboriginal Health at the University of Melbourne. “Whereas you might have been brought up to go to the doctor when you are unwell, for Aboriginal people (going to a doctor) might be a much bigger issue,” she says. “There might be issues of racism, there might be history of difficulties, there might be hesitancy about western medicine and all sorts of cost a...

The oddities of existing things

October 02, 2019 02:00 - 33 minutes

The 13th century physician and astronomer Zakariya ibn Muhammad al-Qazwinin was an influential member of the literary circles in Iraq and advisor to the Mongol Governor of the area. One of his major works is the Wonders of Creation, a kind of compilation of the knowledge of the universe, says Dr Stefano Carboni, lecturer in Islamic Art at the University of Western Australia and 2019 Macgeorge Fellow at the University of Melbourne. “Starting from the outer spheres where the throne of God is ...

Finding memories in music

September 18, 2019 02:00 - 20 minutes

Music has this unique ability to connect with emotion, and with memory, so they’re very intricately linked, says Professor Felicity Baker, Head of Music Therapy and Director of the International Research Partnerships for the Creative Arts and Music Therapy Research Unit at the University of Melbourne. “When you hear a piece of music and then the memories become evoked as a result of that, the neural network is activated, and it also then leads to the activation of more positive moods.” Profes...

Bringing democracy to the internet

September 04, 2019 02:00 - 34 minutes

In her new book Future Histories, author and lawyer Lizzie O’Shea asks what historical social experiments like the Paris Commune can tell us about modern online democracy. “I sort of see Mark Zuckerberg’s call for regulation of his platform somewhat cynically,” she says. “I think he’s trying to do that in anticipation of it coming inevitably. So, he’s going to try and manage that process.” According to the author, this is the moment for us to organise and think about how we can install mor...

Delving into memory to understand schizophrenia

August 21, 2019 02:00 - 17 minutes

Impaired memory is a symptom of schizophrenia and University of Melbourne PhD student Cassandra Wannan has identified areas of the brain that give us new clues as to what’s going on. Up to 1 in 100 people worldwide will experience schizophrenia. It can stem from a number of factors, including genetics, trauma, and substance abuse. For centuries there’s been limited understanding of how schizophrenia operates, leading to misdiagnosis or insufficient treatment. In order to better our understa...

The Frontiers Of Physics - From planets to photons

August 07, 2019 02:00 - 35 minutes

Physics is sometimes described in terms of two frontiers, says Professor Jamieson, a physicist at the University of Melbourne and Chief Investigator of the Victorian node of the Australian Research Council Centre of Excellence for Quantum Computer Technology. “One frontier is cosmological. You look out into the abyss of space, an enormous scale of space and time.” “So that’s a journey into the wide frontier as we explore the cosmos with evermore powerful telescopes and use the laws of physi...

Indigenous astronomy

July 24, 2019 02:00 - 29 minutes

Associate Professor Duane Hamacher has spent 11 years immersing himself into the world of Indigenous knowledge and Indigenous science. Working closely with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Elders and communities to learn about their astronomical knowledge and teachings, Associate Professor Hamacher also mentors and supports Indigenous students pursuing studies in astronomy, physics, and space science. “I was very fortunate to be able to learn directly from many Elders,” says Associate ...

Investigating the brain’s insulation

July 10, 2019 02:00 - 28 minutes

Following his uncle’s brain injury, Dr David Gonsalvez studied neuroscience and now researches the connections between brain cells and how they change in diseases like Multiple Sclerosis. “The cells that I study make the insulating material myelin, that covers all of the wires in the brain,” says Dr Gonsalvez. Our ‘wiring’ is formed by axons, the long stalks that grow out of the brain’s neurons and carry electrical signals to other neurons. Myelin is wrapped around axons to insulate the sig...

Investigating the brain's insulation

July 10, 2019 02:00 - 28 minutes - 26.2 MB

Following his uncle’s brain injury, Dr David Gonsalvez studied neuroscience and now researches the connections between brain cells and how they change in diseases like Multiple Sclerosis. “The cells that I study make the insulating material myelin, that covers all of the wires in the brain,” says Dr Gonsalvez. Our ‘wiring’ is formed by axons, the long stalks that grow out of the brain’s neurons and carry electrical signals to other neurons. Myelin is wrapped around axons to insulate the ...

Movement, mobility and identity

June 26, 2019 02:00 - 39 minutes

One of anthropologist Professor Andrew Dawson’s research papers is titled ‘Why Marx was a bad driver: Alienation to sensuality in the anthropology of automobility’. The name gives an insight into his interest in the way movement, mobility and migration informs cultures and communities around the world. “Anthropologists often see cultures and communities as outcomes of people living in places. The fact is that people have always been mobile, and increasingly are mobile, especially with globa...

The genomic clues to disease

June 12, 2019 02:00 - 32 minutes

Genomics is a rapidly evolving technology that can help identify the genetic cause of a condition in a person. It can also find a person’s predisposition to various diseases like some cancers. When science first sequenced all the genes in the entire human genome, it became possible for scientists to compare the genomic patterns of larger groups of people – looking for more clues to health and disease in the ‘big data’. Professor Clara Gaff was awarded the Most Valuable Woman in Leadership i...

How can we tell if an animal is depressed?

May 29, 2019 02:00 - 30 minutes

There’s been a growing shift in animal welfare; an increasing awareness of the mental wellbeing of animals rather than purely their biological functioning – that is, an animal’s physiology, reproduction and injury. Mike Mendl, professor of Animal Behaviour and Welfare at Bristol University in the UK, is drawing on animal behaviour, human psychology and cognitive neuroscience to improve animal welfare. “Data from human studies shows that people who are unhappy or depressed tend to be much mo...

The complex relationship between prostate cancer and obesity

May 15, 2019 02:00 - 21 minutes

Previously seen as an older man’s disease, increased rates of prostate cancer in younger men has been associated with an increased incidence of obesity. “There are a number of changes that happen in the body when you have obesity, that could lead to the progression of cancer,” says Professor Watt, Head of the Department of Physiology, School of Biomedical Sciences at the University of Melbourne. “Essentially what we’ve found is that, unlike other cancer types, which rely heavily on glucose ...

Reversing irreversible blindness

May 01, 2019 02:00 - 27 minutes

Glaucoma is the leading cause of irreversible blindness worldwide. By the time we reach the age of 80, around 15 per cent of us will have glaucoma. By using gene therapy, University of Melbourne ophthalmology professor, Keith Martin, and his team are aiming to encourage the cells that connect the eye to the brain to make new photoreceptors that pick up light, replacing those that have been lost. “The cells I’m most interested in glaucoma are called retinal ganglion cells and these are the c...

Giving games their sound

April 17, 2019 02:00 - 30 minutes

Chiptune is the electronic music that was integral to the experience of playing the early computer games like Pac-Man and Donkey Kong. And the art of composing a chiptune was all about being innovative in the face of the constraints that came with using a simple sound chip. “One of the really nice things about Chiptune is because it is so raw and open and simple, you are forced into a situation where you have no option but to create,” says Professor Kenny McAlpine, a Melbourne Enterprise Fell...

The history of paper

April 03, 2019 01:00 - 31 minutes

Before paper, we had papyrus - made from reeds in Egypt, or parchment - made from the skin of various animals. And then China invented paper in order to collect Buddhist texts. From there, over the next two centuries, the use of paper moved through Central Asia used by merchants, government and commerce. But, how did we get from Ancient Egyptian scrolls to modern-day office paper? Jonathan Bloom is the now-retired Norma Jean Calderwood University Professor of Islamic and Asian Art at Boston...

Big and naughty architecture

March 20, 2019 01:00 - 32 minutes

Sir Peter Cook is well known for his ‘big and naughty’ architecture. The Emeritus Professor at University College London, the Royal Academy of Arts and the Frankfurt Staedelschule, Sir Peter co-founded the avant-garde architectural group Archigram and worked on constructions like the radical Art Museum in Graz, Austria. Sir Peter says that buildings and structures must be designed for people. “...it’s also a question of timing, positioning, spacing, iconography, to what extent something is...

My brilliant career

March 08, 2019 01:00 - 56 minutes

While progress has been made, men still hold 60 per cent of senior positions within the Australian Medical Research Institute’s 49-member organisations, according to 2018 data. For International Women’s Day, six female leaders in medical research come together to discuss the professional challenges they’ve overcome, to help encourage more women in science to build successful, enduring careers. Professor Fabienne Mackay, head of the School of Biomedical Sciences, joins Professor Kathryn Nort...

Molecules in motion

March 06, 2019 01:00 - 33 minutes

Professor Eva Nogales started her career in a time where barely any women were seen in science departments. In college, she skipped biology to focus on physics, relying on her high-school knowledge of the former to shape her career as a biophysicist. Now, she’s using her understanding of the microtubules in our cells for improving disease management, including slowing the uncontrollable growth of cancer. This niche understanding of our cell behaviour at the molecular level is already improv...

Workplace bullying in the #MeToo era

February 20, 2019 01:00 - 40 minutes

Workplace bullying. Chances are we’ve all seen or experienced it at least once in our lives. From the extreme of sexual or physical assault, to the subtler eye-rolls that exist in the ‘grey area’ of bullying. Dr Victor Sojo, a lecturer and Research Fellow at the Centre for Workplace Leadership at the University of Melbourne, says all these negative behaviours can lead to a toxic work environment and, as a result, impact on productivity. “At the most basic level within organisations, people ...

Learning to live with fire

February 06, 2019 01:00 - 38 minutes

When we talk about bushfires in Australia, we talk about the devastation. But Professor Cristina Montiel Molina from the Complutense University of Madrid says we need to re-think that. “We don’t consider fire a natural element in our lives, but it’s a part of landscape,” says Professor Molina. “We don’t really know how to live with fire.” In fact, Professor Molina says that mega fires we’ve experienced in Europe, Australia, Chile and California in recent years are our own fault - as result ...

Australia: liveability vs sustainability

January 23, 2019 01:00 - 37 minutes

The Australian city of Melbourne has been voted the world’s most liveable city numerous times - but does that status make those of us who live here complacent about the city’s long-term future? Professor Lars Coenen is the inaugural City of Melbourne Chair of Resilient Cities - an initiative between the City of Melbourne and University of Melbourne. The aim is to strengthen the city’s resilience in the face of sustainability challenges like global warming. But key to creating a sustainable c...

Defining a pathogen

January 09, 2019 01:00 - 49 minutes

Professor Roy Robins-Browne, renowned vaccinologist who retired from the University of Melbourne late last year, and Professor Myron (Mike) Levine, a microbiologist from University of Maryland are “scientific soulmates”. The two met in 1979, when Professor Robins-Browne’s interest in the varieties of E. coli that cause diarrhoea took him to the Center for Vaccine Development of the University of Maryland in Baltimore. At this time, Professor Levine was working in developing countries on the ...

Intellectual disabilities and the fight for justice

December 19, 2018 01:00 - 24 minutes

The Justice For LB campaign, which was launched following the death of 33-year-old Connor Sparrowhawk in a British residential unit, has made the issue of preventable deaths among people with an intellectual disability more visible. It’s an issue that can be solved; and that it’s time to start addressing it, say researchers and campaigners. Dr Andi Horvath chats with prominent UK campaigners Dr George Julian and Chris Hatton about what needs to change. For more information about Connor Sparr...

Can love overcome the distance between us?

December 05, 2018 01:00 - 42 minutes

A farm labourer and builder’s mate in England, a porter in Scotland, a new immigrant in Israel; Professor Nigel Rapport’s fieldwork has offered him opportunities to explore the precious reality of human individuality in a wide range of circumstances. Episode recorded: October 18, 2018. Interviewer: Steve Grimwade. Producer and editor: Chris Hatzis. Co-production: Dr Andi Horvath and Silvi Vann-Wall. Banner image: Jeremy Bishop/Unsplash.

Standing up for science

November 21, 2018 01:00 - 34 minutes

Biologist Professor Randy Schekman received the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 2013, along with colleagues, for his work on cell membrane vesicle trafficking - a major transport system within our cells. A passionate advocate of the scientific method and open-access journals, Professor Schekman argues that science needs to be vocally defended now, more than ever. Episode recorded: September 19, 2018. Interviewer: Dr Andi Horvath. Producer and editor: Chris Hatzis. Co-production: ...

Language for living

November 07, 2018 01:00 - 34 minutes

“Just being able to say beautiful words, to put beautiful words together, is a way of moving through time and living your life and holding onto your life more valuably.” Professor David Mason, former Poet Laureate of Colorado, on why poetry is so ubiquitous and important. Episode recorded: September 17, 2018. Interviewer: Dr Andi Horvath. Producer and editor: Chris Hatzis. Co-production: Dr Andi Horvath and Silvi Vann-Wall. Banner image: Taylor Ann Wright.

Why nerd politics is here to stay

October 24, 2018 01:00 - 41 minutes

Politics in the digital age is increasingly being shaped by tech-savvy activists; the Edward Snowdens and Julian Assanges of the world. But it’s when these ‘nerds’ join with others that true change happens - like Spain’s Indignados movement becoming a force in the country’s mainstream political system. Dr John Postill discusses his new book The Rise of Nerd Politics in this new episode of Eavesdrop on Experts. Episode recorded: September 4, 2018. Interviewer: Steve Grimwade. Producer and e...

Why investigative journalism matters more than ever

October 10, 2018 02:00 - 27 minutes

“If you knock on a door and it doesn’t open, keep knocking. It’s persistence that gets results in journalism.” The Boston Globe’s Editor At Large, Walter V Robinson, was famously immortalised by Michael Keaton in the Oscar-winning movie Spotlight, about his team of investigative reporters that lifted the lid on institutional child sexual abuse in Boston’s Catholic Church. Here he discusses the importance of investigative reporting, and the challenges it faces today. Episode recorded: June 1,...

The breath of life

September 26, 2018 02:00 - 26 minutes

Pneumonia is the biggest killer of children worldwide. But when it comes to fighting the disease, particularly in remote communities, the key problem is access to medicine and technology. Oxygen, with antibiotics, is crucial to pneumonia treatment, but not every healthcare facility has oxygen available. In fact, some don’t even have electricity. In 2011, a team of physics researchers - including Associate Professor Roger Rassool from the University of Melbourne - collaborated with colleagues ...

How is commuting changing us?

September 12, 2018 02:00 - 28 minutes

In his new book, Transit Life published by MIT Press, Associate Professor David Bissell encourages us to think about how we use our daily commute, and it is shaping our relationships, how we work and how we build our cities. He chats about the joys and pains of commuting to Steve Grimwade. Episode recorded: August 21, 2018 Interviewer: Steve Grimwade Producers: Chris Hatzis, Dr Andi Horvath and Silvi Vann-Wall Audio engineer and editor: Chris Hatzis Banner image: Shutterstock

The quantum sensing revolution

September 10, 2018 02:00 - 15 minutes

In this bonus episode of Eavesdrop on Experts, our reporter Dr Andi Horvath ventures into the misunderstood world of quantum physics and, specifically, quantum sensing. While the discussion about “spooky” quantum phenomena like Schrödinger’s famous cat is about a hundred years old, there’s a revolution coming in quantum sensing. Quantum sensors exploit of the quantum mechanical behaviour of atoms or ions to measure physical quantities such as frequency, acceleration, rotation rates, electric ...

Celebrating synths

August 29, 2018 02:00 - 56 minutes

Synthesisers are the stars of the Grainger Museum’s latest exhibition, Synthesizers: The Sound of the Future. The exhibition celebrates these democratising instruments, with a particular look at Melbourne’s emerging electronic music scene in the 1960s and ‘70s. Chris Hatzis takes a stroll through the exhibition and chats with curator Heather Gaunt, MESS's director and sound artist Byron Scullin, and artist and composer David Chesworth. Music used in episode: "Kraut Mich Mit Einen Dachshund" "...

Why does radio hold a special place in our hearts?

August 15, 2018 02:00 - 28 minutes

Loneliness and isolation can be a very real issue for many older Australians. Dr Amanda Krause’s research is looking at how listening to the radio can help. Episode recorded: August 3, 2018 Interviewer: Steve Grimwade Producers: Dr Andi Horvath, Chris Hatzis and Silvi Vann-Wall Audio engineer and editor: Chris Hatzis Banner image: Getty Images The survey for Dr Krause’s Radio for Wellbeing research project can be completed online. You can also visit the Community Broadcasting Foundation websi...

Turning science into business

August 01, 2018 02:00 - 25 minutes

Back in the day, ‘applied life science’ might have referred only to winemaking. Nowadays the massive biotechnology industry is responsible for a vast array of projects that fight diseases, find the functional age of cells, and even create effective alternatives to vaccines. But, as Dr Lynn Johnson Langer warns, many of these exciting new projects will never leave the lab without the right funding and the development of relevant and in-depth business skills. Episode recorded: July 18, 2018. ...

From "failed musician" to innovative entrepreneur

July 18, 2018 02:00 - 26 minutes

Associate lecturer Susan de Weger is a French horn player. In fact, she’s a self-confessed “failed musician”, who walked away from music and went on to establish a multi-million dollar IT consulting practice in Europe. But music didn’t walk away from her. Once she returned to Australia, she decided to change her internal narrative and tackle a Performance Master’s degree at the Melbourne Conservatorium of Music, University of Melbourne. Now she teaches music entrepreneurship to a new generati...

Your online life after death

July 04, 2018 02:00 - 44 minutes

If Facebook continues growing at its current rate - by 2130 the number of dead users will surpass the living. In fact, the number of the dead on Facebook is already growing fast. By 2012, just eight years after the platform was launched, 30 million users with Facebook accounts had died, and that number has only gone up since. These days, it’s not unusual to see memorial pages on social media - but how is the digital world changing our approach to death? From algorithms that can post tweets in...

ENCORE: Unexpected outcome in bagging area

June 20, 2018 02:00 - 17 minutes

In this encore presentation of Eavesdrop on Experts, environmental psychologist Dr Wouter Poortinga shares how the 5p plastic bag tax in the UK reduced consumption between 70 and 90 percent almost overnight. He discusses how, with a little bit of prompting, habits can change and how we need a plan to stop wasting take-away coffee cups. Episode recorded: 8 February, 2017 Interviewer: Steve Grimwade Producers: Dr Andi Horvath and Chris Hatzis Audio Engineering: Gavin Nebauer Editor: Chris Hatzi...

Exercising your emotions

June 06, 2018 02:00 - 25 minutes

Get emotional - it's for your own good. For decades, emotional stability - that is, not being outwardly emotional - has been upheld as the pinnacle of normal functioning. But things are changing, and Dr Peter Koval wants to show everyone why letting your emotions show is the way of the future. Episode recorded: 29 May 2018 Interviewer: Dr Andi Horvath Producers: Dr Andi Horvath, Chris Hatzis and Silvi Vann-Wall Audio engineer and editor: Chris Hatzis Banner image: Emotion/Flickr

Solving our climate history puzzle

May 23, 2018 02:00 - 37 minutes

Climate scientist and paleoclimatologist Dr Joelle Gergis has spent over a decade painstakingly piecing together Australia’s climate history, using historical records dating back to the First Fleet, natural records held in our trees, corals and ice and computer modelling. As she outlines in her book Sunburnt Country, published by Melbourne University Publishing, Australia’s climate has always been “spectacularly erratic”, but human activity has accelerated these rates of change. As the develo...

Smashing through science's glass ceiling

May 09, 2018 02:00 - 20 minutes

Professor Frances Separovic has amassed many ‘firsts’ in her career as a scientist, including being the first female chemist to become a member of the Australian Academy of Science and the first female Head of the School of Chemistry at the University of Melbourne. Our reporter Dr Andi Horvath sits down for a chat with Frances, where she discusses the road she travelled to reach the peak of her profession, from school in Broken Hill to Deputy Director of the Bio21 Institute. Episode recorded:...

The legal rights of rivers

April 24, 2018 02:00 - 23 minutes

Rivers in New Zealand, Australia, India and Colombia have all been granted legal rights recently. Environmental law expert Dr Erin O’Donnell explains to our reporter Dr Andi Horvath why granting nature legal rights is becoming more accepted. Episode recorded: 23 March 2018 Interviewer: Dr Andi Horvath Producers: Dr Andi Horvath, Chris Hatzis and Silvi Vann-Wall Audio engineer and editor: Chris Hatzis Banner image: The Whanganui River in New Zealand was the first in the world to be awarded leg...

Sorting fact from fiction in a post-truth world

April 11, 2018 02:00 - 30 minutes

When social media micro-targeting is shaping political views and ‘alternative facts’ abound, is there any hope for democracy? Cognitive psychologist Professor Stephan Lewandowsky explains why we still believe something to be true, even after we have been told it is not, and why we are all so willing to believe what we read - including fake news. In our post-truth era he suggests we all need to become a little more cynical, to ward off misinformation and guard against its potential to manipula...

The secret history of stone

March 28, 2018 01:00 - 47 minutes

Cultural geographer Tim Edensor is passionate about place. His career has taken him from the Taj Mahal to industrial ruins in England's north, and now to Melbourne and its stone buildings. Wandering is the best way to get to know a place, says Dr Tim Edensor, and as a cultural geographer who has explored everything from what Christmas lights reveal about British class identity to Melbourne's old stone buildings, he should know. Episode recorded: March 1 2018 Interviewer: Steve Grimwade Produc...

Seeing like an anthropologist

March 14, 2018 01:00 - 40 minutes

Anthropologist Monica Minnegal has spent her career observing "the extraordinary things that people do", with much of her work dedicated to learning more about the Kubo people in Papua New Guinea. A community in the last uncontrolled part of the country, the Kubo are now encountering the West through mining companies and navigating the many cultural and social changes that brings. Episode recorded: February 23, 2018 Interviewer: Steve Grimwade Producers: Dr Andi Horvath, Chris Hatzis and Silv...

At the human-computer interface

February 28, 2018 01:00 - 34 minutes

In 1980 Ben Shneiderman published one of the first texts in the field that would come to be known as human-computer interaction, and has since pioneered innovations we take for granted today, like touchscreens and hyperlinks. He has now turned his attention to maximising the real-world impact of university research, by combining applied and basic research; a topic he addresses in his new book 'The New ABCs of Research'. He chats with our reporter Steve Grimwade. Episode recorded: December 14 ...

For the love of the stage

February 14, 2018 01:00 - 40 minutes

Acting is not natural - but it can be learned, and the VCA's Rinske Ginsberg passes on her wisdom about how the body can express an internal state; as well what it takes to make it as an actor. The Melbourne Fringe 'living legend' talks to Steve Grimwade, reflecting on life in Melbourne's radical arts scene of the 1980s, and how performance and art making has changed since. Episode recorded: December 8 2017 Interviewer: Steve Grimwade Producers: Dr Andi Horvath, Chris Hatzis and Silvi Vann-Wa...

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