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Come Let Us Reason Podcast

376 episodes - English - Latest episode: about 3 hours ago - ★★★★ - 43 ratings

Welcome to Come Let Us Reason Together, the podcast from Lenny Esposito and Come Reason Ministries. Here, we dig deeply into ways Christianity shows itself as an intelligent and rational faith. Episodes include topics about faith, ethics, worldview, and philosophy from a distinctly Christian perspective. Join us each week and see just how rational faith can be!

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Episodes

Talking About Science and Faith Without Exploding (Part 2)

April 17, 2022 07:01 - 24.3 MB

Talking About Science and Faith Without Exploding (Part 2) Talking about faith issues seems stressful enough, but how do Christians engage people who use science against their beliefs? In this closing set of teachings from our Christianity and Science series, Lenny explains how to open up conversations instead of fights, where to be cautious in making your claims, and why including ideas like love and justice are key to creating a fruitful dialog. This class is part of a full series of lect...

Talking About Science and Faith Without Exploding (Part 1)

April 10, 2022 21:01 - 28.5 MB

Talking About Science and Faith Without Exploding (Part 1) Talking about faith issues seems stressful enough, but how do Christians engage people who use science against their beliefs? In this closing set of teachings from our Christianity and Science series, Lenny explains how to open up conversations instead of fights, where to be cautious in making your claims, and why including ideas like love and justice are key to creating a fruitful dialog. This class is part of a full series of lect...

Your Mind is Not Your Brain: The Case for the Soul (Part 2)

April 03, 2022 07:01 - 27.5 MB

Your Mind is Not Your Brain: The Case for the Soul (Part 2) Materialists and evolutionists believe the physical self is all there is; your consciousness is nothing more than a complex series of interacting electro-chemical processes in your brain. However, Christianity holds human beings are more than just matter. We have been created as body and soul. Here, Lenny explains the Christian concept of the soul and shows why materialism is insufficient to make sense of consciousness. This class i...

Your Mind is Not Your Brain: The Case for the Soul (Part 1)

March 27, 2022 07:01 - 29.1 MB

Your Mind is Not Your Brain: The Case for the Soul (Part 1) Materialists and evolutionists believe the physical self is all there is; your consciousness is nothing more than a complex series of interacting electro-chemical processes in your brain. However, Christianity holds human beings are more than just matter. We have been created as body and soul. Here, Lenny explains the Christian concept of the soul and shows why materialism is insufficient to make sense of consciousness. This class i...

Arguing Against Naturalism and Materialism (Part 2)

March 20, 2022 07:00 - 35.9 MB

Arguing Against Naturalism and Materialism (Part 2) The idea of the supernatural seems anathema to many in the scientific community today. Most of the hard sciences are taught from an exclusively naturalist point of view, where concepts such as God, the soul, or even an immaterial mind are at best ignored or outright rejected. However, the naturalist has a huge problem-—claiming naturalism means abandoning reason itself. Listen in as Lenny shows why believing in materialism means giving up o...

Arguing Against Naturalism and Materialism (Part 1)

March 13, 2022 08:00 - 37.1 MB

Arguing Against Naturalism and Materialism (Part 1) The idea of the supernatural seems anathema to many in the scientific community today. Most of the hard sciences are taught from an exclusively naturalist point of view, where concepts such as God, the soul, or even an immaterial mind are at best ignored or outright rejected. However, the naturalist has a huge problem-—claiming naturalism means abandoning reason itself. Listen in as Lenny shows why believing in materialism means giving up o...

Brave New World: Bioethics in the 21st Century (Part 2)

March 06, 2022 08:00 - 42.5 MB

Brave New World: Bioethics in the 21st Century (Part 2) With life-saving treatments, artifical implants, and new techniques, humans are relying on medical science more than ever. But science without morality is dangerous and can lead us into real-world situations that were only nightmares in the past. Gene editing, human cloning, euthanasia, and abortion are just some of the real risks to the inherent dignity of human beings. In this podcast series, Lenny outlines the need for a transcendan...

Brave New World: Bioethics in the 21st Century (Part 1)

February 27, 2022 08:00 - 49.3 MB

Brave New World: Bioethics in the 21st Century (Part 1) With life-saving treatments, artifical implants, and new techniques, humans are relying on medical science more than ever. But science without morality is dangerous and can lead us into real-world situations that were only nightmares in the past. Gene editing, human cloning, euthanasia, and abortion are just some of the real risks to the inherent dignity of human beings. In this podcast series, Lenny outlines the need for a transcendan...

The Dangers of New Reproductive Technologies (Part 2)

February 20, 2022 08:01 - 23.3 MB

The Dangers of New Reproductive Technologies (Part 2) Human reproduction is one of the most amazing areas of life we study. Scientific advancements can now allow people to become parents who would never have otherwise had the chance. But this area is fraught with dangers like those that exploit surrogates or treat embryos as disposable commodities. Listen in as Lenny cautions about the progress and the pitfalls of new reproductive technologies. This class is part of a full series of lecture...

The Dangers of New Reproductive Technologies (Part 1)

February 13, 2022 08:01 - 34.7 MB

The Dangers of New Reproductive Technologies (Part 1) Human reproduction is one of the most amazing areas of life we study. Scientific advancements can now allow people to become parents who would never have otherwise had the chance. But this area is fraught with dangers like those that exploit surrogates or treat embryos as disposable commodities. Listen in as Lenny cautions about the progress and the pitfalls of new reproductive technologies. This class is part of a full series of lecture...

Is It Anti-Science to Believe in Miracles? (Part 2)

February 06, 2022 08:01 - 32.5 MB

Is It Anti-Science to Believe in Miracles? (Part 2) In early Christianity, miracles played a significant part in the Christian witness, but do miracles really happen? Science has shown us so much more about how the world works. Does it disprove miracles as confused thinking? Are we rational to reject miracle claims out of hand? In this podcast, Lenny will look at why holding to miracle accounts can be considered completely rational and how miracles can help you share with others. This cla...

Is It Anti-Science to Believe in Miracles? (Part 1)

January 30, 2022 08:01 - 27 MB

Is It Anti-Science to Believe in Miracles? (Part 1) In early Christianity, miracles played a significant part in the Christian witness, but do miracles really happen? Science has shown us so much more about how the world works. Does it disprove miracles as confused thinking? Are we rational to reject miracle claims out of hand? In this podcast, Lenny will look at why holding to miracle accounts can be considered completely rational and how miracles can help you share with others. This cla...

Archaeology: Where Science and Faith Meet (Part 3)

January 23, 2022 08:00 - 32.6 MB

Archaeology: Where Science and Faith Meet (Part 3) The Bible is unique among sacred texts in that it is set against a historical backdrop. Do recent archaeological discoveries validate or discredit the Biblical accounts? In this week's podcast, Lenny explore the relationship between the Bible and archaeology. This class is part of a full series of lectures entitled "Christianity and Science: Tackling the Issues of the 21st Century." To find out more, visit the comereason.org web site. Par...

Archaeology: Where Science and Faith Meet (Part 2)

January 16, 2022 08:00 - 37.2 MB

Archaeology: Where Science and Faith Meet (Part 2) The Bible is unique among sacred texts in that it is set against a historical backdrop. Do recent archaeological discoveries validate or discredit the Biblical accounts? In this week's podcast, Lenny explore the relationship between the Bible and archaeology. This class is part of a full series of lectures entitled "Christianity and Science: Tackling the Issues of the 21st Century." To find out more, visit the comereason.org web site. Par...

Archaeology: Where Science and Faith Meet (Part 1)

January 09, 2022 08:00 - 37.3 MB

Archaeology: Where Science and Faith Meet (Part 1) The Bible is unique among sacred texts in that it is set against a historical backdrop. Do recent archaeological discoveries validate or discredit the Biblical accounts? In this week's podcast, Lenny explore the relationship between the Bible and archaeology. This class is part of a full series of lectures entitled "Christianity and Science: Tackling the Issues of the 21st Century." To find out more, visit the comereason.org web site. Par...

The LICE Problem for Evolutionists (Part 2)

January 02, 2022 08:00 - 59.1 MB

The LICE Problem for Evolutionists (Part 2) Evolution. Most high schools and colleges teach it today as unquestioned fact. However, new evidence has emerged that cast serious doubt on modern views of the theory. In this podcast, Lenny offers a cunulative case argument against the modern evolutionary synthesis and show why it is reasonable to believe that man is intelligently designed, a product of special creation. This class is part of a full series of lectures entitled "Christianity an...

The LICE Problem for Evolutionists (Part 1)

December 26, 2021 08:00 - 38.7 MB

The LICE Problem for Evolutionists (Part 1) Evolution. Most high schools and colleges teach it today as unquestioned fact. However, new evidence has emerged that cast serious doubt on modern views of the theory. In this podcast, Lenny offers a cunulative case argument against the modern evolutionary synthesis and show why it is reasonable to believe that man is intelligently designed, a product of special creation. This class is part of a full series of lectures entitled "Christianity an...

Understanding the Evolution Debate (Part 4)

December 19, 2021 08:01 - 12.3 MB

Understanding the Evolution Debate (Part 4) Ever since Charles Darwin offered his Origin of Species in 1859, evolution has proven to be one of the more contentious issues in the science and faith discussion. In this set of talks, Lenny explains what the nature of the debate over evolution entails, the three main competing ideas on the origin and diversity of life, and a few of the problems of modern evolutionary theory. This class is part of a full series of lectures entitled "Christianit...

Understanding the Evolution Debate (Part 3)

December 12, 2021 08:01 - 18.9 MB

Understanding the Evolution Debate (Part 3) Ever since Charles Darwin offered his Origin of Species in 1859, evolution has proven to be one of the more contentious issues in the science and faith discussion. In this set of talks, Lenny explains what the nature of the debate over evolution entails, the three main competing ideas on the origin and diversity of life, and a few of the problems of modern evolutionary theory. This class is part of a full series of lectures entitled "Christianit...

Understanding the Evolution Debate (Part 2)

December 05, 2021 08:01 - 20.6 MB

Understanding the Evolution Debate (Part 2) Ever since Charles Darwin offered his Origin of Species in 1859, evolution has proven to be one of the more contentious issues in the science and faith discussion. In this set of talks, Lenny explains what the nature of the debate over evolution entails, the three main competing ideas on the origin and diversity of life, and a few of the problems of modern evolutionary theory. This class is part of a full series of lectures entitled "Christianit...

Understanding the Evolution Debate (Part 1)

November 28, 2021 08:01 - 21 MB

Understanding the Evolution Debate (Part 1) Ever since Charles Darwin offered his Origin of Species in 1859, evolution has proven to be one of the more contentious issues in the science and faith discussion. In this set of talks, Lenny explains what the nature of the debate over evolution entails, the three main competing ideas on the origin and diversity of life, and a few of the problems of modern evolutionary theory. This class is part of a full series of lectures entitled "Christianit...

Science and Evidence for God: A Finely Tuned Universe (Part 2)

November 21, 2021 08:01 - 25.3 MB

Science and Evidence for God: A Finely Tuned Universe (Part 2) Atheists and others have argued that as scientific knowledge increases, our belief on God will seem more and more silly. They say we simply believe in a "God of the gaps." However, one of the startling results of the modern scientific enterprise is just the reverse: the more we understand our universe, the more we need God as creator to explain it. This class is part of a full series of lectures entitled "Christianity and Scienc...

Science and Evidence for God: A Finely Tuned Universe (Part 1)

November 14, 2021 08:01 - 22.9 MB

Science and Evidence for God: A Finely Tuned Universe (Part 1) Atheists and others have argued that as scientific knowledge increases, our belief on God will seem more and more silly. They say we simply believe in a "God of the gaps." However, one of the startling results of the modern scientific enterprise is just the reverse: the more we understand our universe, the more we need God as creator to explain it. This class is part of a full series of lectures entitled "Christianity and Scienc...

Science and the Evidence for God: Why Is There Something Rather Than Nothing? (Part 2)

November 07, 2021 07:00 - 45.2 MB

Science and the Evidence for God: Why Is There Something Rather Than Nothing? (Part 2) Atheists and others have argued that as scientific knowledge increases, our belif ion God will seem more and more silly. They say we simply believe in a "God of the gaps." However, one of the startling results of the modern scientific enterprise is just the reverse: the more we undersatnd our universe, the more we need God as creator to explain it. This class is part of a full series of lectures entitled ...

Science and the Evidence for God: Why Is There Something Rather Than Nothing? (Part 1)

October 31, 2021 07:00 - 40.4 MB

Science and the Evidence for God: Why Is There Something Rather Than Nothing? (Part 1) Atheists and others have argued that as scientific knowledge increases, our belif ion God will seem more and more silly. They say we simply believe in a "God of the gaps." However, one of the startling results of the modern scientific enterprise is just the reverse: the more we undersatnd our universe, the more we need God as creator to explain it. This class is part of a full series of lectures entitled ...

The Trouble with "Trusting the Science" (Part 3)

October 24, 2021 07:00 - 36.7 MB

The Trouble with "Trusting the Science" (Part 3) We've all heard the admonishment to "trust the science" in various situations. But is demanding faith in science while dismissing faith in religion truly rational? In this episode, Lenny Esposito tackles the distinctions between faith, belief, and knowledge and offers specific examples of where the tenets of the Christin faith not only proved more accurate than the invocation of science during the last century, but also proved to be more human...

The Trouble with "Trusting the Science" (Part 2)

October 17, 2021 07:00 - 38.2 MB

The Trouble with "Trusting the Science" (Part 2) We've all heard the admonishment to "trust the science" in various situations. But is demanding faith in science while dismissing faith in religion truly rational? In this episode, Lenny Esposito tackles the distinctions between faith, belief, and knowledge and offers specific examples of where the tenets of the Christin faith not only proved more accurate than the invocation of science during the last century, but also proved to be more human...

The Trouble with Trusting the Science (Part 1)

October 11, 2021 00:26 - 39 MB

The Trouble with Trusting the Science (Part 1) We've all heard the admonishment to "trust the science" in various situations. But is demanding faith in science while dismissing faith in religion truly rational? In this episode, Lenny Esposito tackles the distinctions between faith, belief, and knowledge and offers specific examples of where the tenets of the Christin faith not only proved more accurate than the invocation of science during the last century, but also proved to be more humane....

The Trouble with "Trusting the Science" (Part 1)

October 10, 2021 07:00 - 39 MB

The Trouble with "Trusting the Science" (Part 1) We've all heard the admonishment to "trust the science" in various situations. But is demanding faith in science while dismissing faith in religion truly rational? In this episode, Lenny Esposito tackles the distinctions between faith, belief, and knowledge and offers specific examples of where the tenets of the Christin faith not only proved more accurate than the invocation of science during the last century, but also proved to be more human...

Separating Science from Scientism (Part 3)

October 03, 2021 07:01 - 23.9 MB

Separating Science from Scientism (Part 3) Atheist Richard Dawkins claims that "scientists get to work and solve problems" while those of faith offer nothing to help advance humanity. Stephen Hawking says the universe doesn't need God; it can make itself. What these famous scientists have in common is a belief in scientism, not science. With all the talk of “trusting the science,” it becomes crucial to learn the difference between what is knowledge and what is a faith statement that eliminat...

Separating Science from Scientism (Part 2)

September 26, 2021 07:01 - 24.1 MB

Separating Science from Scientism (Part 2) Atheist Richard Dawkins claims that "scientists get to work and solve problems" while those of faith offer nothing to help advance humanity. Stephen Hawking says the universe doesn't need God; it can make itself. What these famous scientists have in common is a belief in scientism, not science. With all the talk of “trusting the science,” it becomes crucial to learn the difference between what is knowledge and what is a faith statement that eliminat...

Separating Science from Scientism (Part 1)

September 19, 2021 07:01 - 22.6 MB

Separating Science from Scientism (Part 1) Atheist Richard Dawkins claims that "scientists get to work and solve problems" while those of faith offer nothing to help advance humanity. Stephen Hawking says the universe doesn't need God; it can make itself. What these famous scientists have in common is a belief in scientism, not science. With all the talk of “trusting the science,” it becomes crucial to learn the difference between what is knowledge and what is a faith statement that eliminat...

The Origin and Nature of Western Science (Part 2)

September 12, 2021 07:01 - 25.1 MB

The Origin and Nature of Western Science (Part 2) There’s a popular trope that science is somehow antithetical to Christian belief. Not only is this not true, it is a well-established fact that without Christianity the modern practice of science wouldn’t exist. Indeed, it was Christian assumptions and motivations that birthed today’s modern scientific enterprise. Listen in as Lenny explores the intimate relationship between Christianity and science. This class is part of a full series of le...

The Origin and Nature of Western Science (Part 1)

September 05, 2021 07:01 - 24.6 MB

The Origin and Nature of Western Science (Part 1) There’s a popular trope that science is somehow antithetical to Christian belief. Not only is this not true, it is a well-established fact that without Christianity the modern practice of science wouldn’t exist. Indeed, it was Christian assumptions and motivations that birthed today’s modern scientific enterprise. Listen in as Lenny explores the intimate relationship between Christianity and science. This class is part of a full series of le...

The End of Evil Through the Death of God (Part 2)

August 29, 2021 07:00 - 39.7 MB

The End of Evil Through the Death of God (Part 2) One of the most challenging questions Christians face is "Why Ddoes God allwow evil in this world?" Most of the time, the person vocingin that objection never talks about the most evil act in human history: putting the sinless Creator to deth on a cross. As Lenny concludes his four-part series on the resurrection, he examines how Christianity and the crucifixion specifically provide a solution to the problem of evil that all other worldviews...

The End of Evil Through the Death of God (Part 1)

August 22, 2021 07:00 - 38.5 MB

The End of Evil Through the Death of God (Part 1) One of the most challenging questions Christians face is "Why Ddoes God allwow evil in this world?" Most of the time, the person vocingin that objection never talks about the most evil act in human history: putting the sinless Creator to deth on a cross. As Lenny concludes his four-part series on the resurrection, he examines how Christianity and the crucifixion specifically provide a solution to the problem of evil that all other worldviews...

Double Vison: Seeing Jesus's Second Coming in the First (Part 2)

August 15, 2021 07:00 - 33.2 MB

Double Vison: Seeing Jesus's Second Coming in the First (Part 2) Christians have historically held that Jesus not only came to be our redeemer through his sacrifice, but he will also come again in glory to rule and reign in righteousness. While this was a mystery to the Old Testament prophets, it has been revealed to his church. In this talk, Lenny explores how the second coming of Jesus is foreshadowed even in the cricifixion account. Part 2 of 2

Double Vison: Seeing Jesus's Second Coming in the First (Part 1)

August 08, 2021 07:00 - 34.8 MB

Double Vison: Seeing Jesus's Second Coming in the First (Part 1) Christians have historically held that Jesus not only came to be our redeemer through his sacrifice, but he will also come again in glory to rule and reign in righteousness. While this was a mystery to the Old Testament prophets, it has been revealed to his church. In this talk, Lenny explores how the second coming of Jesus is foreshadowed even in the cricifixion account. Part 1 of 2

The Crucifixion as Tangible History (Part 2)

August 01, 2021 07:01 - 24.8 MB

The Crucifixion as Tangible History (Part 2) In thinking about Jesus’s death, it can become easy for us to distance ourselves from events that we may believe but are over-familiar with. The historical can take on a fictional quality. However, we must remind ourselves that the crucifixion, burial, and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth was really real. In this study, Lenny examines the historical evidence of Jesus’s passion that forms the foundation of our faith. Part 2 of 2

The Crucifixion as Tangible History (Part 1)

July 25, 2021 07:01 - 24.8 MB

The Crucifixion as Tangible History (Part 1) In thinking about Jesus’s death, it can become easy for us to distance ourselves from events that we may believe but are over-familiar with. The historical can take on a fictional quality. However, we must remind ourselves that the crucifixion, burial, and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth was really real. In this study, Lenny examines the historical evidence of Jesus’s passion that forms the foundation of our faith. Part 1 of 2

The End of Humanity (Part 2)

July 18, 2021 07:01 - 25.6 MB

The End of Humanity (Part 2) The crucifixion of Jesus sits at the center of the Christian faith. It also marks the end of humanity. What does that mean, exactly? In this lesson, Lenny explains how the word "end" can convey a thing’s ultimate purpose as well as its final outcome. Join us as we explore how the crucifixion not only displays the ultimate example of evil in sinful creatures putting their holy Creator to death, but also sets a glorious destiny of forgiveness for Adam’s offspring. ...

The End of Humanity (Part 1)

July 11, 2021 07:01 - 20.9 MB

The End of Humanity (Part 1) The crucifixion of Jesus sits at the center of the Christian faith. It also marks the end of humanity. What does that mean, exactly? In this lesson, Lenny explains how the word "end" can convey a thing’s ultimate purpose as well as its final outcome. Join us as we explore how the crucifixion not only displays the ultimate example of evil in sinful creatures putting their holy Creator to death, but also sets a glorious destiny of forgiveness for Adam’s offspring. ...

How Reasonable Is It to "Trust the Science"? (Part 2)

July 04, 2021 10:00 - 39.9 MB

How Reasonable Is It to "Trust the Science"? (Part 2) We've all heard the admonishment to "trust the science" in various situations. But is demanding faith in science while dismissing faith in religion truly rational? In this episode, Lenny Esposito tackles the distinctions between faith, belief, and knowledge and offers specific examples of where the tenets of the Christain faith not only proved more accurate than the invocation of science in t the last century, but also more humane. Part 2...

How Reasonable Is It to "Trust the Science?" (Part 1)

June 28, 2021 02:19 - 39.6 MB

How Reasonable Is It to "Trust the Science?"(Part 1) We've all heard the admonishment to "trust the science" in various situations. But is demanding faith in science while dismissing faith in religion truly rational? In this episode, Lenny Esposito tackles the distinctions between faith, belief, and knowledge and offers specific examples of where the tenets of the Christain faith not only proved more accurate than the invocation of science in t the last century, but also more humane. Part 1 ...

Jesus and the Impact of Ideas (Part 2)

June 20, 2021 07:00 - 35.9 MB

Jesus and the Impact of Ideas (Part 2) Controversy and conflict seem to be more and more prevalent in our lives. We divide over matters of the church, over politics, over health, and even over others who are themselves fighting. In our post-Christian culture, believers are especially susceptible to finding themselves arguing against the continuing rise of decadence. How can we deal with conflict and controversy in a biblical way? In this multi-part series based on Luke chapter 20, Lenny look...

Jesus and the Impact of Ideas (Part 1)

June 13, 2021 21:21 - 33.6 MB

Jesus and the Impact of Ideas (Part 1) Controversy and conflict seem to be more and more prevalent in our lives. We divide over matters of the church, over politics, over health, and even over others who are themselves fighting. In our post-Christian culture, believers are especially susceptible to finding themselves arguing against the continuing rise of decadence. How can we deal with conflict and controversy in a biblical way? In this multi-part series based on Luke chapter 20, Lenny look...

Jesus: The Smartest Man Who Ever Lived (Part 2)

June 06, 2021 07:01 - 22.5 MB

Jesus: The Smartest Man Who Ever Lived (Part 2) Controversy and conflict seem to be more and more prevalent in our lives. We divide over matters of the church, over politics, over health, and even over others who are themselves fighting. In our post-Christian culture, believers are especially susceptible to finding themselves arguing against the continuing rise of decadence. How can we deal with conflict and controversy in a biblical way? In this multi-part series based on Luke chapter 20, Le...

Jesus: The Smartest Man Who Ever Lived (Part 1)

May 30, 2021 07:01 - 25.6 MB

Jesus: The Smartest Man Who Ever Lived (Part 1) Controversy and conflict seem to be more and more prevalent in our lives. We divide over matters of the church, over politics, over health, and even over others who are themselves fighting. In our post-Christian culture, believers are especially susceptible to finding themselves arguing against the continuing rise of decadence. How can we deal with conflict and controversy in a biblical way? In this multi-part series based on Luke chapter 20, Le...

Jesus and the Trampling of Truth (Part 2)

May 23, 2021 07:01 - 22.3 MB

Jesus and the Trampling of Truth (Part 2) Controversy and conflict seem to be more and more prevalent in our lives. We divide over matters of the church, over politics, over health, and even over others who are themselves fighting. In our post-Christian culture, believers are especially susceptible to finding themselves arguing against the continuing rise of decadence. How can we deal with conflict and controversy in a biblical way? In this multi-part series based on Luke chapter 20, Lenny l...

Jesus and the Trampling of Truth (Part 1)

May 16, 2021 07:01 - 27.1 MB

Jesus and the Trampling of Truth (Part 1) Controversy and conflict seem to be more and more prevalent in our lives. We divide over matters of the church, over politics, over health, and even over others who are themselves fighting. In our post-Christian culture, believers are especially susceptible to finding themselves arguing against the continuing rise of decadence. How can we deal with conflict and controversy in a biblical way? In this multi-part series based on Luke chapter 20, Lenny l...

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