#122 - Let's Talk: Diplomacy

The word diplomacy brings into mind images of politicians discussing comprehensive deals among nations but the truth of the matter is that diplomacy is not something that happens only in politics, rather, it is an essential component of every human relationship that includes peace, cooperation, mutual respect, and understanding among in a group of individuals as small as a newly wed couple and as large the United Nations with all its member countries.

In this episode of Beyond the Present podcast Dan and Poujix discuss the issue of diplomacy as it applies to our personal and professional lives and offer ways to avoid diplomacy being replaced by fights and arguments.

 

Episode Transcript:----more----

 

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

diplomacy, diplomatic, relationships, practicing, emotions, fails, act, punching, deal, feel, influence, books, people, business, grabbing, talk, means, long term, traveling, life

SPEAKERS

Pouya LJ, Dan

 

Pouya LJ  00:09

Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to yet another episode of beyond the present podcast, joined with me as always, Dan Molgan, how's it going, man?

 

Dan  00:17

Hey, man, buddy, how are you glad to be here with you life is wonderful. And of course, we're back on track, working very hard and trying to make sure that things remain upbeat. Despite all the challenges of your hand. Of course, I'm very happy to know that there are some improvements. Now in terms of traveling around the world, some boards are getting actually opened. And of course, it's not going to be as I really wanted. I think that the true summer will be experienced, hopefully, next year, but it's better than nothing. And let's see what happens. But for now, life is great. And I'm waiting to see hopefully how, for the rest of the summer we will see some changes in terms of traveling in terms of the orders in the European Union in Asia and the Middle East, and hopefully things will get better. We'll see. We'll see.

 

Pouya LJ  01:00

That's good. So they were talking about some topic regarding how to what is the art of being a diplomat. So first of all, the first thing comes to anybody's mind when you're talking about the word diplomat or diplomatic is the, you know, international relationships, which is very true. Of course, that's part of the whole part of the whole deal. But I wouldn't really put a stop to the definition of the word there because you can apply diplomatic behavior and being being diplomatic, as an art form in your life and your business and your personal life. So how do you how do you see it? Do you see it that is contained within the EU between countries when they're negotiating, for example, trade deals or whatever? Or do you think it applies to personal individual lives as well?

 

Dan  01:42

Absolutely, very well put out and such a smart statement. Diplomacy exists, whether someone wants to buy a candy as a five year old, or whether somebody wants to negotiate I don't know, for example, a major trade deal between three or four countries to see when, for example, a five year old goes to, for example, His mom and starts looking in his eyes and says things like, Oh, Mom, Hey, Mom, what's up? Do you see that candy over there? Well, this little five year old is actually engaging in diplomacy. Now depends on how he does it. If he says, Mom, either you buy me the candy, or I am not going to talk with you anymore. We call this emotional blackmailing. That's one of the strategies of, you know, diplomacy. If, on the other hand, he tries to get the candy by being very nice and kind with the mom and trying to, you know, be very attractive. We call this enticing, which is a very democratic approach to towards diplomacy. But diplomacy Simply put, is about reaching agreements, and avoiding conflict, especially when it comes to physical conflicts. Diplomacy basically is what prevents wars from happening and where we see worse across nations, or fights would be verbal fights or even physical fights. That's it. happens when diplomacy fails because diplomacy is that glue that holds the societies peace and stability together. And without diplomacy, there's nothing left but arguments. So imagine that child who did not get the you know, candy starts smashing things around anyhow basically and starts punching, for example with his, you know, his little hands punching the man, I want the candy. That's when diplomacy fails. So whenever we hear verbal fights, people start using strong language Oh, you this and this such and such a person. That's when diplomacy fails. When we see physical fights. That's, you know, when diplomacy when you suddenly see somebody grabs, I don't know, I don't know, some brick and or some stuff, start pushing somebody or punching somebody. That's when diplomacy fails. And of course, when you see troops landed, and boots on the ground, that's also when diplomacy fails. And obviously, as we know that, you know, in the modern world, we want our societies to the modern, in the very sense of modernity with itself brings about diplomacy because different policy itself is what led to modernity, because if we did not have diplomacy we would have no civilization would be still cavemen, wha, moving around and grabbing stones, all those things, but we have our technologies, we are capable of sitting in two different countries and having this you know, live conversation or traveling very, you know, fast between different countries, or, for example, using AI or using modern technologies and medicine, because we had diplomacy, because when diplomacy fails, progress halts. And every every side loses basically, right. And because of this, I believe it is very important for everyone to learn the art of being, you know, diplomatic, and it is hard to fully, you know, articulate what it means to be diplomatic and all you know, things and all relationships, you know, in a short period of time that we have on our podcast, but if our listeners pay attention to it, of course, it'll be very, very important and we see exactly why it is important to learn the art of diplomacy.

 

Pouya LJ  04:59

That's good to know. I mean, Again, we're not going to delve into the political aspect of it from a negotiation between countries because first of all, people tend to have some ideas of what it is and how people tend to do it. But let's, let's make it more personal. So it's my, I suppose it's more useful to with our limited time. So let's talk about how you employ diplomacy and diplomatic approach to negotiating Say, say with your let's let's talk about first class of businesses so that your business partners with your customers, whatever. So how do you how do you go about So first of all, are you going to establish a rapport using a diplomatic approach? Or what is the first step in your in your guess? Right?

 

Dan  05:41

Well, you know, usually diplomacy basically is what I call when diplomacy is about creating a relationship that is founded primarily on offering value to both sides. You see, a diplomatic relationship, for example, is a relationship where A certain degrees of logics and strategy is involved. So for example, if you see someone, and then you start jumping up and grabbing them and hugging them, this is not necessarily a diplomatic relationship. So if I, for example, go to a business meeting and I say, Hey, man, what up buddy? And I, you know, start, for example, rapping a little bit graph is, hey, what up, buddy? How's it going? Now, that's not exactly diplomatic, I'm probably going to call this security and they're gonna have to kick somebody out. Right? So diplomacy is basically being able to create a professional as well as mutually beneficial setting environment where both sides win and get value. So when you are being diplomatic, you're not trying to be friendly necessarily. When you're being diplomatic. You're not trying to be sincere necessarily, because, again, we're looking at politics here right? Now, unfortunately, politicians are accused of being extremely, you know, dishonest. That's an exaggeration, but diplomacy itself is about being able to control your emotions in the heat of a debate. So firstly, To see your intuition you feel the guy says, Listen, I know you've traveled along with this deal. But guess what? I'm offering nothing less than this amount for example. Now, your natural emotional tendency is to stand up on your chair and say you something, something, something. I just traveled this distance to do this. And now you ever meet this price you something something that's like the natural, you know, cavemen mind tendency. But diplomacy here says, alright, take a step back. Take a deep breath. Again, this all happens, you know, very quickly, you know, in the subconscious mind, let's just calm down and analyze the situation. So then you start to move on to their person, what are your conditions? What do you want to do with this? Why do you offer this so you start asking questions, and more importantly, you try to come from the frame of cooperation, rather than elimination or competition. Because this is the major factor diplomacy works when both sides understand that the other side actually isn't Just looking for his own interest. When this happens when this is, you know, thanks. For example, this guy only wants the lowest price he can get. Then automatically here there's a sense of animosity. This happens a lot, unfortunately, in business, where it's like, either you take them or I take them. And I've heard a lot of great books in sales. Unfortunately, a lot of them teach you a lot of unethical practices, things like when you are selling, you must be selling at the highest price no matter what, because of this, and they justify that with saying things like you're selling it for your team, but in reality, it's very unethical. So diplomacy is about trying to understand what the other side once trying to explain clearly what you want, and explain why especially to deal in a different way. That's called diplomacy. This happens a lot in business. But then again, it's not just in business, we can use diplomacy in all relationships, friendships and partnerships could be with your partner, spouse with your children, and this applies to almost everything. However, personally speaking The closer you are in a relationship, it's best to be more sincere, because, you know, if you're extremely strategic in all relationships that also, you know, quality relationship, but being diplomatic is not the same as being a liar. Whereas being a cheater, it's simply a matter of having strategy and relationships. And if you look at those who are very happy and have maintained long term relationships, you realize they have actually noticed some degrees of strategy and their encounters and have learned to be diplomatic.

 

Pouya LJ  09:31

So, from what I'm hearing from what you're saying, it seems to me I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, obviously. But it seems to me that it's from your point of view, at least, this whole diplomatic approach to say business or even in personal life. We'll get to that in a second half, but at least for the first half business side, it seems like it's a it's a it's a structure. It's a foundation. It's a framework that defines some boundaries, some helps you guide and navigate your relationship. With the third party or second party, that is that would that would you say that that's

 

Dan  10:04

exactly a great point, I mean yourself right now. I'm gonna give you right now, three situations and describe for me how you feel in each of these situations. So put yourself. So we're going to use three cases here. One is going to be business one is going to be personal, and one is going to be basically friendly, not extremely close, like let's say for example, a wife or a child, but also not very distant, like, for example, business. So imagine the first case in business. So you go to a business meeting, and you ask for something. And the person says, Listen, projects, we got this price right here, it's $2,500 per staff member, and we are the only company that supplies it. So take it or leave it. How do you feel in this situation?

 

Pouya LJ  10:51

I was definitely not comfortable. I'm not, you know, comforting,

 

Dan  10:55

but you really don't necessarily have any other options. So there's no other option and you told me been told by your boss to make this purchase? What will you do?

 

Pouya LJ  11:03

So, so? So assuming they're correct, actually. So there's there's no competition or only choice. Right?

 

11:09

Exactly. There.

 

Dan  11:12

They have their monopoly. So I mean, in a sense, you have to give in, don't you? Exactly. Now, here's the next case. Imagine after literally a week after that deal was done. And another company comes along and offers the same service slightly more expensive. So, for example, this service to $500 per staff now is 2700. And then you go to the, you know, office, would you be interested to even negotiate in this case, or you want to go back to the same guy who pushed and shoved into your face the last time?

 

Pouya LJ  11:43

Yeah, of course, if I could make a better deal with the second guy, and that's

 

Dan  11:46

not a bad deal. Technically, it's not a better deal because it costs more, but you know, this might have a chance. So you go to his office, for example. He says, sir, here's our price is 2700. But the reason that we offer For a little bit more expensive than this competitor is because of this and this and this and of course, we're glad to help you in terms of long term payments and certain other things. So they are very polite. They ask you a lot of questions they understand who you are and what you want. So are you more likely to pay a little bit extra and work with this guy that he actually like then to keep working with the monopoly guy who apparently right now has

 

Pouya LJ  12:22

still a lower price? Right? Well, no, I mean, definitely with the new guy even if it's more expensive because not only because it's at least they they opened the door for negotiation you never like with an ongoing especially if it's not a one time sale, maybe it has some sort of maintainence or something. And definitely the the guy that is more approachable, more. Listening better, is definitely a better choice because at least we can negotiate terms and conditions and you know, problems occur, we can solve them and talk. I think that conversation that the channel conversation being open is definitely comforting. The second

 

Dan  12:59

take exactly See, that's the point. So diplomacy, it actually leads to a better long term relationship. Now let's move on to the pharmacy and personal relationships. I really believe that the foundation of diplomacy and personal relationships, speed friendly family and other comes down to long term thinking, you see, it's much easier to do certain things to have certain reactions, especially negative ones in the short term because of some emotions you're feeling, but that could in the long term, jeopardize our relationship. So diplomacy is about this. So for example, right now, I'm gonna give you two cases. Imagine you're talking with your girlfriend. And your girlfriend basically guess is obviously very stressed very, you know, angry because she has perhaps missed her deadline for the university and she got fired from her last job because she was very busy or just she's very nervous right now. So in the first case, she comes home and says, Listen, Pooh, chicks, the cool guy with a cool suit and the cool beard look at look at me right now. Well, you feel like life is so cool. And like, look at me. So in this case, when she acts all nervous, obviously is not activated automatically. And you have two choices. You can sit back and say now You shut up your little which you're not supposed to talk to me like that. So this is when exactly diplomacy fails. But here's the question. If this really happened to you projects, do you think you would necessarily react aggressively?

 

Pouya LJ  14:30

Not necessarily. I mean, depends on what mood I am personally. And if.

 

Dan  14:35

So, if you make decisions based upon your mood, then you are not being diplomatic. This is the exact difference between diplomacy in relationships versus winging it or acting your feelings out, right. So if you're imagine you had a very good day, I mean, you had a wonderful day life is great. Everything is going well. And then of course, you're going to be like, understand like, yeah, nine out laid on me. I'm your man just keep punching, keep jabbing no problem. But if you had a bad day, what do you do? Yeah, cannot I had it, I'll do it and you start fighting and boom, diplomacy fails. So diplomacy is about acting and doing the right thing. He irrespective of how you feel. So sometimes diplomacy dictates that you must back off, even though you might need something, sometimes it implies going forward, even though you don't feel like it. So diplomacy is about managing putting a distance between your emotions, and what is right to do to save the relationship if you get the results. So people who are again, that's how politicians are generally those who are good politicians. I mean, if you look at you know, for example, the idiot Trump, who called Joe Biden sleepy Joe, I'm gonna call them idiot Trump. So this is a great example of when diplomacy fails and you just start bullying right? Now this is not just in politics, I'm sure you know a lot of people like that. You know, a lot of people who are using aggression as a means of getting results, they want to bully and all those things. But aggression rarely leads to long term results, not just in politics, but in business and in all relationships. So diplomacy is putting that distance between your emotions and your mood of that moment. And the long term longevity of the relationship and acting not based upon the feeling, but doing what is right. And that by the way, pooches is not easy at all, it requires a lot of training, which is why this, you know, show today is just a means of inspiring our listeners to start putting more time learning the art of basically diplomacy, to know that yes, a girl can start fighting, but if you know and have a good, you know, basically a diplomatic mindset, he can easily turn it around. So the same angry girl who starts shouting and all those things and you feel like oh, you feel like angry right now. say okay, let's be diplomatic here. So, how does she feel? You see, practicing empathy? How does she feel? Hopefully she's very, probably very angry. Why does she feel this way? You see, you're literally putting yourself out of that, you know, situation and inside of her basically mind within a person. And then you try to see the world as they so probably, she is very nervous. Probably she has lost her job and that for her, maybe that time of the month. I mean, you never know. But there's gonna be a lot of things right now, basically. So you put yourself in her shoes. And you say, Okay, what is my objective here, I can fight, I can start slapping her. And then we're going to break up, and then she's going to grab her stuff. She's going to leave and then I'm going to cry. And then I'm going to basically call her she's going to block me, then I'm gonna go back to her home, that's going to come kick my ass. I'm gonna go back home basically, again, and you can imagine that there's no good ending for that. Or I could try to keep it cool. And try to let her express her anger. shouted Little bit and then calm her down. And this is an example of diplomacy. So she started like, Yes, I know very tough for you, I understand totally. Now understand here, you're feeling all the pain that she does. But you are using diplomacy here, right? And in the long term, this diplomatic approach, actually, she starts shouting for a while, she starts screaming, and then after about 25 minutes, she's all done. And then she says, so how was your day, and boom, now you got to go, right here, literally, after all that stuff. And guess what someone's gonna get late at night. And that is because you have managed to be diplomatic. So whether you want good results, whether it is to have a good evening, whether it is to, you know, seal a deal, to get the paycheck to, I don't know, make the alliances or in large scales politically, if you want to build the alliances, then having that diplomatic mindset is the key to success in all these areas because of simple look at politics, and, you know, successful politicians or those who work in business. For those who have good relationships always shows that these are rarely the people who act out their emotions. Because let's be honest, you don't need any education to act of your emotions. It is natural to feel aggressive, it is natural to feel upset or hurt. It is natural to want to punch someone or kill someone these are you don't need any skills to do that. That's all ingrained in your DNA. Anybody can do a five year old can do it and 10 year old you what takes a lot of effort and education and eventually wisdom is being able to control and of course I personally spent a lot of time studying the Chinese culture to practice this for myself and everyone's relying on my friends as well because this thing able to take yourself out of the situation and out of your emotions and towards a you know focused direction we can actually make strategic decisions in a diplomatic way rather than emotional way ultimately yields the best results in all relationships.

 

Pouya LJ  19:54

Perfectly what we already discussed the personal side like a personal relationship, side of There's two. So we're gonna blow past that. And because we're getting to the end of our show as well, now, it's for the people who want to continue educating themselves getting better at this learning practices that they can, you know, do to develop this skill and art form. Are there any books or videos or people who have worked in the space and have material in this space? Do you have any recommendations for further studies?

 

Dan  20:28

Well, of course, there are a lot of great books actually, in this regard. But I really believe that diplomacy itself is not a subject that is linear in nature. That is, yes, there are many books on the subject. For example, I recommend a great book, for example, the psychology of influence, which is a very, very useful book, and has been a bestseller for decades now. And one of my most favorite actually, which talks about what it really means to influence someone basically the psychology of influence, you could try to actually by Dr. Cialdini wonderful book. And but apart from the books itself. I don't think people actually start practicing because diplomacy needs to be practiced in real relationships, not just on paper. So try to look at all of the relationships in business at school at home, and ask yourself, how much of the time am I acting out my emotions? And how much time am I actually trying to act in a diplomatic way that allows the other side to save face to control or his or her anger, to do these things and to get the results and more importantly, to be strategic in my approach, and only then you can actually improve it. But if you want to get a head start, before you practicing these things, I recommend, of course, the psychology of influence. Other than that, there are a lot of great tools and great ways to improve your knowledge of basically diplomacy through learning sales. So I recommend a lot of basically, scripts right now is available in terms of sales, you can actually find online, basically becoming better at selling up anything of any kind itself can actually prove your ability to be diplomatic, because by the very process of doing that, you will eventually Yes, of course, finally, it is experience by having a lot of experience by meeting a lot of new people. Because in order for you to get good at diplomacy, you have to have a lot of social interactions. So you can get good at diplomacy if you only know how to influence your mom, for example, or your best friend. So you want to have a wide basically range of contacts, you know how we can influence because you will then eventually over practice, you will find the patterns that, oh, it doesn't matter, like in most cases, but if the person is black or white, young or rolled tall or short, Asian, for example, or Middle Eastern doesn't really matter, you you can influence them this way. So you eventually get patterns. So the last one, of course, is having a lot of reference experience to improve your overall diplomacy.

 

Pouya LJ  22:43

Excellent, perfect. Thank you, Dan, for today's episode. If you have any final thoughts on the matter, please go ahead.

 

Dan  22:53

For sure. Just I want to thank you again for this great topic you've chosen for this session we talked about, you know what it means Used to be diplomatic, we described the diplomacy as about putting a distance between you and your emotions in order for you to be able to create, influence or save a relationship. And more importantly, we talked about the fact that it can be applied to all facets of life. And everybody can learn to do that. We also discussed that if you want to act on your emotions solely, that's not diplomacy. If you want to know why. And what happens, just take a look at you know, the current recent political events that are happening in the United States and around the world because of the analysis, of course, then you will realize this is what happens when diplomacy fails, results simply vanish and disappear. So ultimately, by knowing this and learning to do that, you can actually become better and then we talked about how we can actually work on it. And he said, other than Of course, certain books that we recommend, there's obviously the the act of practicing, you want to actually start practicing using diplomacy and salesmanship in all your relationships. So we want a couple of books, when of course the most useful right now will be the psychology of influence, but after Cellini which talks to you detail about what it means, of course parchement himself was a salesperson before he actually became a psychologist. So he talks a lot about how, for example, His, you know, brother managed to sell, for example, very good cars at very high prices. So it's a very great book to start with. But then again, practice makes perfect. So try to use those and your daily practice. Well,

 

Pouya LJ  24:19

thank you again, Dan, for this episode. My pleasure. And thank you, everybody for joining us today until a later episode. Have a good one.