What Was That Like - a storytelling podcast with amazing stories from real people artwork

What Was That Like - a storytelling podcast with amazing stories from real people

281 episodes - English - Latest episode: 24 days ago - ★★★★★ - 1.2K ratings

A storytelling podcast, with first-hand amazing stories presented by Scott Johnson and Meredith Hackwith Edwards. Each storyteller tells their own personal true story, with all the details of what happened. Animal attacks, plane crashes, mass shootings, and more – you'll hear what happened directly from the person who experienced it, and the inspirational outcome of how they came out on the other side. 

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Episodes

40: Spence is a lighthouse keeper

January 03, 2020 08:00 - 58 minutes

Can you imagine having a job that required you to live on an island, and your primary purpose there was to make sure ships avoid running into the land? It’s definitely not a job for everyone, but for some people it’s perfect. Spence is one of those people. He’s a modern day lighthouse keeper. This is a bit of a different type of episode for this podcast. Sometimes when I come across opportunities like this, I think, okay, I would find this really interesting, but would other people find it in...

Steve's wife lost all her memory WWTL 39

December 20, 2019 08:00 - 49 minutes - 40.3 MB

If you’re a parent, you know that the birth of your first child is an incredible experience. For Steve and Camre, it didn’t happen at all the way they expected it to. Steve got the call at work that Camre was at the hospital and had already delivered the baby. He dropped everything and drove there frantically, and he was confused because the baby wasn’t due for another 7 weeks. He ran into the hospital, and the first thing he saw was his newborn son, Gavin. He quickly scrubbed up and hel...

39: Steve's wife lost all her memory

December 20, 2019 08:00 - 53 minutes

If you’re a parent, you know that the birth of your first child is an incredible experience. For Steve and Camre, it didn’t happen at all the way they expected it to. Steve got the call at work that Camre was at the hospital and had already delivered the baby. He dropped everything and drove there frantically, and he was confused because the baby wasn’t due for another 7 weeks. He ran into the hospital, and the first thing he saw was his newborn son, Gavin. He quickly scrubbed up and held him...

Henry was attacked by an alligator WWTL 38

December 06, 2019 08:00 - 48 minutes - 39.7 MB

Henry is an educator in the field of marine science. And as you’ll hear when we’re talking, it’s not just his job. It’s his life work. It’s as much a passion for him as it is a career. When he goes diving in a river and kind of rummaging around the bottom, he never really knows what he’ll find. What he expects to find mostly are rocks and sand. What he HOPES to find are ancient shark teeth, or even the skeletal remains of prehistoric creatures. What he did NOT expect to find was a live a...

38: Henry was attacked by an alligator

December 06, 2019 08:00 - 52 minutes

Henry is an educator in the field of marine science. And as you’ll hear when we’re talking, it’s not just his job. It’s his life work. It’s as much a passion for him as it is a career. When he goes diving in a river and kind of rummaging around the bottom, he never really knows what he’ll find. What he expects to find mostly are rocks and sand. What he HOPES to find are ancient shark teeth, or even the skeletal remains of prehistoric creatures. What he did NOT expect to find was a live alliga...

Ray went from 500 pounds to ultrarunner WWTL 37

November 22, 2019 08:00 - 47 minutes - 38.2 MB

My conversation today is with Ray, who lives in St Augustine, Florida. Just a couple of years ago, Ray was on a downward spiral in terms of his health. Like a lot of people, his weight had gotten out of control. He didn’t realize how far off track he was until he visited a doctor one day. That doctor visit was his wake-up call. And he definitely woke up. I think you’re going to love this story. I also wanted to mention something right up front. Part of Ray’s amazing turnaround is the fac...

37: Ray went from 500 pounds to ultrarunner

November 22, 2019 08:00 - 51 minutes

My conversation today is with Ray, who lives in St Augustine, Florida. Just a couple of years ago, Ray was on a downward spiral in terms of his health. Like a lot of people, his weight had gotten out of control. He didn’t realize how far off track he was until he visited a doctor one day. That doctor visit was his wake-up call. And he definitely woke up. I think you’re going to love this story. I also wanted to mention something right up front. Part of Ray’s amazing turnaround is the fact tha...

Ray went from 500 pounds to ultrarunner

November 22, 2019 08:00 - 47 minutes - 38.2 MB

My conversation today is with Ray, who lives in St Augustine, Florida. Just a couple of years ago, Ray was on a downward spiral in terms of his health. Like a lot of people, his weight had gotten out of control. He didn’t realize how far off track he was until he visited a doctor one day. That doctor visit was his wake-up call. And he definitely woke up. I think you’re going to love this story. I also wanted to mention something right up front. Part of Ray’s amazing turnaround is the fac...

36: Acaimie rescued her husband

November 08, 2019 08:00 - 47 minutes

Acaimie and her husband, Clay, have been through a pretty bizarre experience. When I heard this story, I knew I needed to talk to this young lady. She and Clay were doing a volcano hike. That in itself might seem story-worthy. But this was not actually an “active” volcano so it wasn’t spewing lava. They hiked the 2 ½ miles up to the rim, hung out for a while, took some pictures. Then Clay decided he wanted to climb down into the crater. Acaimie didn’t feel safe because of the steep incline, s...

Acaimie rescued her husband WWTL 36

November 08, 2019 08:00 - 43 minutes - 35.2 MB

Acaimie and her husband, Clay, have been through a pretty bizarre experience. When I heard this story, I knew I needed to talk to this young lady. She and Clay were doing a volcano hike. That in itself might seem story-worthy. But this was not actually an “active” volcano so it wasn’t spewing lava. They hiked the 2 ½ miles up to the rim, hung out for a while, took some pictures. Then Clay decided he wanted to climb down into the crater. Acaimie didn’t feel safe because of the steep incline...

Ross was blinded by his father WWTL 35

October 25, 2019 07:00 - 1 hour - 58.4 MB

In an ideal world, children should be able to trust their parents. After all, it’s the grown-ups in the family who are responsible for the kids. No child should ever have to worry about safety when mom and dad are around for protection, in an ideal world. That’s the world Ross thought he was living in when he was 8 years old, with his older brother Ryan, who was 10. They were happy kids with no reason to be afraid. Until one night at their home in Charlotte, North Carolina, when his mother...

35: Ross was blinded by his father

October 25, 2019 07:00 - 1 hour

In an ideal world, children should be able to trust their parents. After all, it’s the grown-ups in the family who are responsible for the kids. No child should ever have to worry about safety when mom and dad are around for protection, in an ideal world. That’s the world Ross thought he was living in when he was 8 years old, with his older brother Ryan, who was 10. They were happy kids with no reason to be afraid. Until one night at their home in Charlotte, North Carolina, when his mother to...

Diana survived a plane crash WWTL 34

October 11, 2019 07:00 - 1 hour - 56.3 MB

Lexington, Kentucky. 1 pm on a Friday, Labor Day weekend. Diana, a medical flight nurse, was sitting in a Lear jet. The pilot was unconscious. The co-pilot could not move because he had a broken back. Diana’s patient had died on impact. The plane was sitting on Versailles Rd in Lexington, after it had just slid across the road on it’s belly. The landing gear was gone. The right wing had been ripped off the plane. And now that it had come to a stop, Diana knew she had to get the door open...

34: Diana survived a plane crash

October 11, 2019 07:00 - 1 hour

Lexington, Kentucky. 1 pm on a Friday, Labor Day weekend. Diana, a medical flight nurse, was sitting in a Lear jet. The pilot was unconscious. The co-pilot could not move because he had a broken back. Diana’s patient had died on impact. The plane was sitting on Versailles Rd in Lexington, after it had just slid across the road on it’s belly. The landing gear was gone. The right wing had been ripped off the plane. And now that it had come to a stop, Diana knew she had to get the door open and ...

33: Karen was shot on Interstate 95

September 27, 2019 07:00 - 44 minutes

One summer day in Jacksonville, Florida, Karen got the surprise of her life. She was with her friend Sheryl. They were pulled over on the interstate, I-95, and Karen was holding a blanket to her face. She was bleeding, and she didn’t even know what had happened. In short time, she learned from a police officer that she had been shot. And she wasn’t the only one. Nine cars that afternoon, on that section of I-95, had been hit by bullets from an unknown source. Six people were injured. And the ...

Karen was shot on Interstate 95 WWTL 33

September 27, 2019 07:00 - 40 minutes - 33.1 MB

One summer day in Jacksonville, Florida, Karen got the surprise of her life. She was with her friend Sheryl. They were pulled over on the interstate, I-95, and Karen was holding a blanket to her face. She was bleeding, and she didn’t even know what had happened. In short time, she learned from a police officer that she had been shot. And she wasn’t the only one. Nine cars that afternoon, on that section of I-95, had been hit by bullets from an unknown source. Six people were injured. And t...

32: Chloe accidentally started a business

September 13, 2019 07:00 - 44 minutes

Today’s episode is a little different. I’d like to know what you think about it. My guest today is Chloe. Chloe is a university student in New York, and in the last couple of months, she has gone through a pretty radical change. Two months ago, Chloe was in a desperate state. She was unemployed, having lost her job with no notice. After losing her job, she had gone through her savings. She was 48 hours away from having her electricity disconnected. She was a week away from losing her apartmen...

Chloe accidentally started a business WWTL 32

September 13, 2019 07:00 - 40 minutes - 33.3 MB

Today’s episode is a little different. I’d like to know what you think about it. My guest today is Chloe. Chloe is a university student in New York, and in the last couple of months, she has gone through a pretty radical change. Two months ago, Chloe was in a desperate state. She was unemployed, having lost her job with no notice. After losing her job, she had gone through her savings. She was 48 hours away from having her electricity disconnected. She was a week away from losing her apa...

Kevin saved a life while golfing WWTL 31

August 30, 2019 07:00 - 28 minutes - 23.3 MB

If you were out in public somewhere, just going about your day, and you saw someone collapse – someone you don’t know – what would you do? Most people don’t really know what they would do, until they’re actually put in that situation. There are stories of people who witness something like this, and they just freeze. Or, if it’s a busy place like a public sidewalk and someone is on the ground, a lot of times everyone will just walk by. It’s an unfortunate psychology thing with humans called...

31: Kevin saved a life while golfing

August 30, 2019 07:00 - 31 minutes

If you were out in public somewhere, just going about your day, and you saw someone collapse – someone you don’t know – what would you do? Most people don’t really know what they would do, until they’re actually put in that situation. There are stories of people who witness something like this, and they just freeze. Or, if it’s a busy place like a public sidewalk and someone is on the ground, a lot of times everyone will just walk by. It’s an unfortunate psychology thing with humans called di...

30: Travis lost his son

August 16, 2019 07:00 - 1 hour

My guest today is Travis. He lives near Bismarck, North Dakota. Travis is a man in pain. You’ll hear it in his voice. He just lost his 16 year old son, Brandon. Brandon had asthma. That in itself is not really anything unusual. The CDC says that 1 in 13 people have asthma. Here in the US, that means more than 25 million Americans have it. And it’s actually been increasing for the past 40 years. Brandon had had asthma for almost his whole life. He knew what it was like and how to deal with it....

Travis lost his son WWTL 30

August 16, 2019 07:00 - 1 hour - 63 MB

My guest today is Travis. He lives near Bismarck, North Dakota. Travis is a man in pain. You’ll hear it in his voice. He just lost his 16 year old son, Brandon. Brandon had asthma. That in itself is not really anything unusual. The CDC says that 1 in 13 people have asthma. Here in the US, that means more than 25 million Americans have it. And it’s actually been increasing for the past 40 years. Brandon had had asthma for almost his whole life. He knew what it was like and how to deal wit...

Westin survived a boat propeller WWTL 29

August 02, 2019 07:00 - 58 minutes - 47.1 MB

If you’re a parent, you can probably identify a little bit with this story. Especially if you have teenagers. My kids are grown now, but I remember back when they were teenagers. And my kids were really good! They never got in trouble or anything like that. But even with responsible, mature teenagers, you just dread that some day you might get a phone call. It’s that phone call from one of your kids that starts out, “Now Dad, I don’t want you to freak out or anything, but something’s hap...

29: Westin survived a boat propeller

August 02, 2019 07:00 - 1 hour

If you’re a parent, you can probably identify a little bit with this story. Especially if you have teenagers. My kids are grown now, but I remember back when they were teenagers. And my kids were really good! They never got in trouble or anything like that. But even with responsible, mature teenagers, you just dread that some day you might get a phone call. It’s that phone call from one of your kids that starts out, “Now Dad, I don’t want you to freak out or anything, but something’s happened...

28: Shiny ate his own foot

July 19, 2019 07:00 - 46 minutes

Today’s conversation is one I’ve been looking forward to, ever since I first came across the story. As you might know, I’ve said in the past that one of my goals for this show is to never be boring. And today’s topic fits in perfectly with that goal. My guest’s name is Shiny. Not his real name of course. Shiny was presented with a rare situation. Some might even call it an opportunity. How would you respond, if you were given the opportunity to actually eat meat that came from a human being? ...

Shiny ate his own foot WWTL 28

July 19, 2019 07:00 - 42 minutes - 34.1 MB

Today’s conversation is one I’ve been looking forward to, ever since I first came across the story. As you might know, I’ve said in the past that one of my goals for this show is to never be boring. And today’s topic fits in perfectly with that goal. My guest’s name is Shiny. Not his real name of course. Shiny was presented with a rare situation. Some might even call it an opportunity. How would you respond, if you were given the opportunity to actually eat meat that came from a human bein...

Luke survived a fatal crash WWTL 27

July 05, 2019 07:00 - 1 hour - 49.7 MB

Probably most people have been in some type of car accident at some point in their life. I've been in more than one myself. None of them were serious, or even involved injuries. These things are common - human drivers make mistakes, and cars just run into each other sometimes. But the crash we're talking about today wasn't a simple fender bender.  Luke and five of his friends were just having a fun, 4th of July vacation. In fact, this episode is being released on July 5, 2019 - the 5-yea...

27: Luke survived a fatal crash

July 05, 2019 07:00 - 1 hour

Probably most people have been in some type of car accident at some point in their life. I've been in more than one myself. None of them were serious, or even involved injuries. These things are common - human drivers make mistakes, and cars just run into each other sometimes. But the crash we're talking about today wasn't a simple fender bender.  Luke and five of his friends were just having a fun, 4th of July vacation. In fact, this episode is being released on July 5, 2019 - the 5-year ann...

John was lost for 4 days WWTL 26

June 21, 2019 07:00 - 54 minutes - 44.3 MB

When you hear the word “lost”, what comes to your mind? Honestly, it seems like these days I don’t really worry too much about getting lost. Most of that is because of the amazing technology called GPS. I mean, I’m here in my office in Safety Harbor Florida, in the Tampa Bay area. I could get in my car, look at my phone, and enter some random house address in Los Angeles, California, 2500 miles away, and within seconds Google will be ready to direct me turn by turn to get to that address. ...

26: John was lost for 4 days

June 21, 2019 07:00 - 58 minutes

When you hear the word “lost”, what comes to your mind? Honestly, it seems like these days I don’t really worry too much about getting lost. Most of that is because of the amazing technology called GPS. I mean, I’m here in my office in Safety Harbor Florida, in the Tampa Bay area. I could get in my car, look at my phone, and enter some random house address in Los Angeles, California, 2500 miles away, and within seconds Google will be ready to direct me turn by turn to get to that address. Eve...

25: Kasey married a wrong number

June 07, 2019 07:00 - 49 minutes

Today we’ve got a really fun conversation. Still a weird story with an extra unusual twist thrown in partway through, but it’s a fun one and I think you’re gonna like it. And if you didn’t already know, you now have the opportunity and ability to support this podcast through my Patreon at whatwasthatlike.com/support. So if you like this show and want it to keep going, that’s how you do it! I’m still working on how it will work for different levels, so that’s coming up in the near future. But ...

Kasey married a wrong number WWTL 25

June 07, 2019 07:00 - 45 minutes - 37 MB

Today we’ve got a really fun conversation. Still a weird story with an extra unusual twist thrown in partway through, but it’s a fun one and I think you’re gonna like it. And if you didn’t already know, you now have the opportunity and ability to support this podcast through my Patreon at whatwasthatlike.com/support. So if you like this show and want it to keep going, that’s how you do it! I’m still working on how it will work for different levels, so that’s coming up in the near future. B...

Marina was stalked WWTL 24

May 24, 2019 07:00 - 39 minutes - 32.5 MB

What if you kind of knew someone in high school, then you became friends with that person when you both ended up at the same college? What if you started hanging out with that person, and talking with him most days before or after classes? What if you confided in this person, and came to really appreciate the friendship that was growing? Then, what if you started to realize that this person was not at all the person you thought they were? That’s what happened to Marina, and it was a ...

24: Marina was stalked

May 24, 2019 07:00 - 43 minutes

What if you kind of knew someone in high school, then you became friends with that person when you both ended up at the same college? What if you started hanging out with that person, and talking with him most days before or after classes? What if you confided in this person, and came to really appreciate the friendship that was growing? Then, what if you started to realize that this person was not at all the person you thought they were? That’s what happened to Marina, and it was a pretty sc...

Whitney was shot 12 times WWTL 23

May 10, 2019 07:00 - 58 minutes - 47.5 MB

Sometimes great ideas show up in your brain at the most surprising times. One morning last September, Whitney Austin suddenly had the idea that she was going to do something. She was going to take action and do everything in her power to reduce gun violence. And let me tell you, Whitney is a very determined person. When she decides to do something, it’s gonna happen. Since that day, she has started a non-profit organization, along with several of her colleagues, with the purpose of reducin...

23: Whitney was shot 12 times

May 10, 2019 07:00 - 1 hour

Sometimes great ideas show up in your brain at the most surprising times. One morning last September, Whitney Austin suddenly had the idea that she was going to do something. She was going to take action and do everything in her power to reduce gun violence. And let me tell you, Whitney is a very determined person. When she decides to do something, it’s gonna happen. Since that day, she has started a non-profit organization, along with several of her colleagues, with the purpose of reducing A...

22: Tyson was abducted

April 26, 2019 07:00 - 1 hour

The tag line for this podcast is “real people in unreal situations”, and today’s story is about as unreal as it gets. Imagine you’re leaving work one night. It’s dark. You’re walking through the parking lot, and suddenly an SUV with two men inside pulls up beside you, one of them jumps out and grabs you, throws you in the car, and they quickly drive away. And there was no one around to see this happen. They drive for a while but you can’t see where they’re taking you. You end up at a house. Y...

Tyson was abducted WWTL 22

April 26, 2019 07:00 - 1 hour - 59 MB

The tag line for this podcast is “real people in unreal situations”, and today’s story is about as unreal as it gets. Imagine you’re leaving work one night. It’s dark. You’re walking through the parking lot, and suddenly an SUV with two men inside pulls up beside you, one of them jumps out and grabs you, throws you in the car, and they quickly drive away. And there was no one around to see this happen. They drive for a while but you can’t see where they’re taking you. You end up at a hou...

21: Ramon's wife hired a hit man to kill him

April 12, 2019 07:00 - 58 minutes

You know, this isn’t really a true crime podcast, but today’s episode sure puts it in that category. Ramon and Lulu got married, and for the first few years it was great. They had a business that was doing very well, they built a new house, they had cars and nice clothes. Life was good. Of course, every marriage has its ups and downs. If you’re married, you know what I mean. But in most cases, a marriage that goes bad just ends in a divorce, and eventually everyone gets on with their lives. ...

Ramon's wife hired a hit man to kill him WWTL 21

April 12, 2019 07:00 - 55 minutes - 44.5 MB

You know, this isn’t really a true crime podcast, but today’s episode sure puts it in that category. Ramon and Lulu got married, and for the first few years it was great. They had a business that was doing very well, they built a new house, they had cars and nice clothes. Life was good. Of course, every marriage has its ups and downs. If you’re married, you know what I mean. But in most cases, a marriage that goes bad just ends in a divorce, and eventually everyone gets on with their live...

William was hit while biking WWTL 20

March 29, 2019 07:00 - 38 minutes - 35.9 MB

Today’s story happened last summer – July of 2018. William was out riding his bike. He came up to an intersection where he had a stop sign, and had to turn either left or right. While he was stopped at that intersection, a car approached from his right, and turned left – coming straight at him. What makes this story interesting is that the driver of that car didn’t see William sitting on his bike at that intersection, because the driver was looking down at his phone. He didn’t look up in...

20: William was hit while biking

March 29, 2019 07:00 - 42 minutes

Today’s story happened last summer – July of 2018. William was out riding his bike. He came up to an intersection where he had a stop sign, and had to turn either left or right. While he was stopped at that intersection, a car approached from his right, and turned left – coming straight at him. What makes this story interesting is that the driver of that car didn’t see William sitting on his bike at that intersection, because the driver was looking down at his phone. He didn’t look up in time...

Dan biked to the South Pole WWTL 19

March 15, 2019 07:00 - 1 hour - 60 MB

I’ve lived in areas where it gets really cold, and I’ve lived where it’s warm most of the time. I’ve lived up north in Ohio and in Maine, and now I’m in sunny Florida. I definitely prefer the warmer climate. But today’s story is about being cold. Really, really cold. Dan Burton brought his fat tire bike to the coast of Antarctica, and he biked from there to the South Pole. That’s 750 miles, and it’s uphill, and it’s against the wind, and it’s in temperatures that are colder than just about...

19: Dan biked to the South Pole

March 15, 2019 07:00 - 1 hour

I’ve lived in areas where it gets really cold, and I’ve lived where it’s warm most of the time. I’ve lived up north in Ohio and in Maine, and now I’m in sunny Florida. I definitely prefer the warmer climate. But today’s story is about being cold. Really, really cold. Dan Burton brought his fat tire bike to the coast of Antarctica, and he biked from there to the South Pole. That’s 750 miles, and it’s uphill, and it’s against the wind, and it’s in temperatures that are colder than just about an...

Max got a deal on Shark Tank WWTL 18

March 01, 2019 08:00 - 33 minutes - 27.6 MB

This episode is a fun one for me. I’m an entrepreneur, so I love watching Shark Tank. If you’re not familiar with the show, it’s where some regular person who has the beginnings of a business comes on and pitches the idea to 5 investors, called Sharks. The investors ask questions and decide if they want to become partners with that person and invest in the business. Some of the people who have gone on there have gotten deals and gone on to great success. Others have gotten no deal, but per...

18: Max got a deal on Shark Tank

March 01, 2019 08:00 - 37 minutes

This episode is a fun one for me. I’m an entrepreneur, so I love watching Shark Tank. If you’re not familiar with the show, it’s where some regular person who has the beginnings of a business comes on and pitches the idea to 5 investors, called Sharks. The investors ask questions and decide if they want to become partners with that person and invest in the business. Some of the people who have gone on there have gotten deals and gone on to great success. Others have gotten no deal, but perhap...

17: Sue crashed a skydive

February 15, 2019 08:00 - 54 minutes

I’ve been friends with Sue for several years, so I know what she’s like. And after you hear the conversation I had with Sue recently, you’ll have a pretty good idea too. I hope you’re ready. October 24, 2015 – Sue was with her daughter Jessica, who was 14 years old at the time, and her friend Elise. Sue and Elise were skydiving buddies, and they were doing what they often did on a beautiful Saturday morning – they were going to go jump out of a plane. Since she was 14, Jessica wasn’t yet old ...

Sue crashed a skydive WWTL 17

February 15, 2019 08:00 - 50 minutes - 41.1 MB

I’ve been friends with Sue for several years, so I know what she’s like. And after you hear the conversation I had with Sue recently, you’ll have a pretty good idea too. I hope you’re ready. October 24, 2015 – Sue was with her daughter Jessica, who was 14 years old at the time, and her friend Elise. Sue and Elise were skydiving buddies, and they were doing what they often did on a beautiful Saturday morning – they were going to go jump out of a plane. Since she was 14, Jessica wasn’t yet o...

Alyssa's abuser set himself on fire WWTL 16

February 01, 2019 08:00 - 40 minutes - 33.2 MB

In the United States, 1 out of 3 women have experienced some form of physical violence by an intimate partner. Alyssa Moore WAS that one out of three. Alyssa lives in Tennessee, and she’s a musician, a songwriter, and an audio engineer. She was also a victim of physical and emotional abuse from her boyfriend, Jared McLemore. One day, at her request, police put out a warrant for his arrest. That night, while she was at work setting up audio at a bar called Murphy’s (in midtown Memphis), Aly...

16: Alyssa's abuser set himself on fire

February 01, 2019 08:00 - 44 minutes

In the United States, 1 out of 3 women have experienced some form of physical violence by an intimate partner. Alyssa Moore WAS that one out of three. Alyssa lives in Tennessee, and she’s a musician, a songwriter, and an audio engineer. She was also a victim of physical and emotional abuse from her boyfriend, Jared McLemore. One day, at her request, police put out a warrant for his arrest. That night, while she was at work setting up audio at a bar called Murphy’s (in midtown Memphis), Alyssa...

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