This episode considers what effective governance looks like in the secondary school and how school leaders and governors can work together successfully and productively. We speak with three school leadership experts about: The distinction between the strategic and the operational and to what extent should governors be operational? How can we support governors who have little or no experience of schools? What makes for an effective chair and vice-chair of governors? What does an effective link governor role look like? How does governance change between individual schools and chains of schools within MATs? Which governance structures work best? What kind of information should school leaders provide to governors when and in which format?