#201 - Deep dive back into Zone 2 | Iñigo San-Millán, Ph.D. (Pt. 2)

Drive with Dr. Peter Attia

Podcast Notes Key Takeaways Fat oxidation, carbohydrates, and lactate are connected – lactate is the byproduct of glucose utilizationThe capacity to transport lactate through high-intensity exercise is trainableWell-trained & elite athletes have an amazing ability to oxidize lactate in mitochondria – but everyone gets to a point where the effort can’t be sustained, the difference is how long it takes you to get therePeople with metabolic syndrome who are characterized by having poor mitochondrial function cannot do an exercise oxidized with lactate because they produce lactate but can’t oxidize the lactate (their slow-twitch muscles don’t have mitochondria to use fat so rely on glucose)A reasonable measure of how zone 2 should feel: you can carry out a full conversation, maybe not as comfortably as if you weren’t exercising, but still without much strain – the other person will know you’re exercising but you are understandableZone 2 is necessary for mitochondrial health, high intensity is necessary for glycolytic efficiency (which you can improve in just a matter of months if consistent)Ideal training protocol: 4 days of zone 2 training lasting 60-90 minutes + 1 day of anaerobic/high-intensity effortHigh-intensity suggestion: keep it simple – 4 minutes high effort, near heart rate max + 4 minutes of recovery x 4-5 cyclesPSA: to be considered a zone 2 workout, you need to spend the entire duration in zone 2 for the benefit – not just an average of zone 2 oscillating faster and slower periods

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Episode Description:

Iñigo San-Millán is an internationally renowned applied physiologist and a previous guest on The Drive. His research and clinical work focuses on exercise-related metabolism, metabolic health, diabetes, cancer metabolism, nutrition, sports performance, and critical care. In this episode, Iñigo describes how his work with Tour de France winner Tadej Pogačar has provided insights into the amazing potential of elite athletes from a performance and metabolic perspective. He speaks specifically about lactate levels, fat oxidation, how carbohydrates in food can affect our lactate and how equal lactate outputs between an athlete and a metabolically unhealthy individual can mean different things. Next, he discusses how Zone 2 training boosts mitochondrial function and impacts longevity. He explains the different metrics for assessing one’s Zone 2 threshold and describes the optimal dose, frequency, duration, and type of exercise for Zone 2. Additionally, he offers his thoughts on how to incorporate high intensity training (Zone 5) to optimize health, as well as the potential of metformin and NAD to boost mitochondrial health. Finally, he discusses insights he’s gathered from studying the mitochondria of long COVID patients in the ICU.

We discuss:

The amazing potential of cyclist Tadej Pogačar [3:00]; Metrics for assessing athletic performance in cyclists and how that impacts race strategy [8:30]; The impact of performance-enhancing drugs and the potential for transparency into athletes’ data during competition [17:00]; Tadej Pogačar’s race strategy and mindset at the Tour de France [24:00]; Defining Zone 2, fat oxidation, and how they are measured [26:45]; Using fat and carbohydrate utilization to calculate mitochondrial function and metabolic flexibility [35:45]; Lactate levels and fat oxidation as it relates to Zone 2 exercise [40:00]; How moderately active individuals should train to improve metabolic function and maximize mitochondrial performance [51:45]; Bioenergetics of the cell and what is different in elite athletes [57:30]; How the level of carbohydrate in the diet affects fuel utilization and power output during exercise [1:08:30]; Glutamine as a source for making glycogen—insights from studying the altered metabolism of ICU patients [1:15:00]; How exercise mobilizes glucose transporters—an important factor in diabetic patients [1:21:00]; Metrics for finding Zone 2 threshold—lactate, heart rate, and more [1:25:00]; Optimal Zone 2 training: dose, frequency, duration, and type of exercise [1:41:15]; How to incorporate high intensity training (Zone 5) to increase VO2 max and optimize fitness [1:51:15]; Compounding benefits of Zone 2 exercise and how we can improve metabolic health into old age [2:01:45]; The effects of metformin, NAD, and supplements on mitochondrial function [2:05:15]; The role of lactate and exercise in cancer [2:13:30]; How assessing metabolic parameters in long COVID patients provides insights into this disease [2:19:00]; The advantages of using cellular surrogates of metabolism instead of VO2 max for prescribing exercise [2:25:45]; Metabolomics reveals how cellular metabolism is altered in sedentary individuals [2:33:45]; Cellular changes in the metabolism of people with diabetes and metabolic syndrome [2:39:15]; and More.

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