Psychotherapists Boudi Maassen and Robin Woodsford share their perspective of men's mental health, with live music by Matt Tonks. These two Kiwi lads have worked in the industry for a very long time and have great insight. Matt asks "do men not have the language to talk about their inner world or are they too scared to be vulnerable enough to use language to talk about their inner world?" As far as tools go for getting out of the rumination loop, we discuss the importance of connection, service/volunteering and exercise.