Life's Worth Living Podcast
98 episodes - English - Latest episode: about 1 year ago -Life's Worth Living Foundation President and Founder, Jon Gossett launched this podcast to find stories of loss, and those who have done amazing things because of their loss. On this podcast we will discuss all things mental health, suicide prevention and feel good stories that will bring you to tears. Please hit subscribe, rate and review.
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Episodes
LIfe's Worth Living Podcast - Big Budah
April 04, 2023 02:16 - 1 hour - 134 MBBig Budah has been making us smile for years in Utah. You know him from his time as a DJ on the radio, and his time on the AM News, as a feature reporter. Budah felt this was his calling bringing happiness to us his viewers. Then COVID-19 hit, and things got real. It was during this time that things began to unravel with his mental health. When it started, he felt it was harder and harder to bring himself out of the darkness he felt. Inside he knew everyone was against him, but that was just...
Life's Worth Living Podcast - Joe Hall
October 17, 2022 14:03 - 1 hour - 157 MBToday's guest is my buddy Joe Hall. Joe has suffered with depression, and suicide ideation for nearly 15 years. During the pandemic, he lost a long time job, and was involved in a motorcycle accident that nearly took his life. This brought Joe the closest he's ever come to taking his life. After multiple surgeries, he made a commitment to himself to run a marathon. One thing led to another, and Joe found himself raising awareness for suicide and mental health, by walking across the United St...
LWLF Podcast - Season 3 Episode 5
May 19, 2022 04:04 - 1 hour - 128 MBGuys my guest today is none other than my buddy Nate Webb. Nate tells about his personal struggles with being bullied. We talk all things bullying, and why the bully bullies. Nate is the Founder of the movement, Bullies Be Gone. We have an open and honest chat about social media, and our children. We talk about how if you don't teach your children, their electronics will. You can literally be replaced as a parent by something you purchased them. I hope this hits home to you parents and that ...
LWLF Podcast - Season 3 Episode 4
May 11, 2022 12:29 - 1 hour - 141 MBTodays guest is my good friend Ceilly Pellew. I got to know Ceilly from her job as reporter for the local newpaper, as she covered LWLF. We both just returned from our 100 mile Walk to Wendover, and I thought the timing was perfect. Ceilly has a story like everyone, and I just knew we needed to hear it. She did something amazing on Tiktok right before the walk, and it went viral. I can't wait for you to hear this story. She is amazing.
LWLF Podcast Season 3 Episode 4
May 11, 2022 12:29 - 1 hour - 141 MBTodays guest is my good friend Ceilly Pellew. I got to know Ceilly from her job as reporter for the local newpaper, as she covered LWLF. We both just returned from our 100 mile Walk to Wendover, and I thought the timing was perfect. Ceilly has a story like everyone, and I just knew we needed to hear it. She did something amazing on Tiktok right before the walk, and it went viral. I can't wait for you to hear this story. She is amazing.
LWLF Podcast - Season 3 Episode 3
May 02, 2022 12:00 - 1 hour - 117 MBTodays guest is none other than my buddy, rock sensation Ofi. When this podcast aires we will have just completed our Annual 100 Mile Walk to Wendover for suicide awareness. Ofi has agreed to perform a private concert at our after party. Ofi cares so much about suicide prevention, and he has his own personal story. You will only hear it here. Hopefully for many of you, you had the chance to see this mega talent in person. For those of you who didn't attend the walk look him up. Everytime I g...
LWLF Podcast - Season 3 Episode 2
April 25, 2022 12:00 - 1 hour - 143 MBWe are back for season 3, and today my guest is Kenna McCloy. Everyone I knew kept telling me I needed to have her on, an I assumed she was pretty amazing. She did not disappoint. She is currently going to the University of Utah, and runs track there as a sprinter. Kenna has suffered with depression since she was about 14. After losing a close friend to suicide she decided to use her experience to make a difference in the lives of others. Don't miss her compelling story.
LWLF Podcast Season 3 Episode 2
April 25, 2022 12:00 - 1 hour - 143 MBWe are back for season 3, and today my guest is Kenna McCloy. Everyone I knew kept telling me I needed to have her on, an I assumed she was pretty amazing. She did not disappoint. She is currently going to the University of Utah, and runs track there as a sprinter. Kenna has suffered with depression since she was about 14. After losing a close friend to suicide she decided to use her experience to make a difference in the lives of others. Don't miss her compelling story.
LWLF Podcast - Season 3 Episode 1
February 14, 2022 13:40 - 55 minutes - 103 MBI am so excited to share my interview with Bailey James. Bailey is coming out to St. George, Utah on March 5th at the Electric Theater to perform with Hollywood Icon and Country Singer Tom Proctor. This concert is to raise money for our Veterans. Tickets are $20. Bailey has just had her single "Finally Free" hit #42 on the Billboard Charts. This is an amazing accomplishment, and she's only 19. She has performed at the Bluebird Cafe, The Douglas Corner, The Listening Room, Wildhorse Saloon, an...
LWLF Podcast Season 3 Episode 1
February 14, 2022 13:40 - 55 minutes - 103 MBI am so excited to share my interview with Bailey James. Bailey is coming out to St. George, Utah on March 5th at the Electric Theater to perform with Hollywood Icon and Country Singer Tom Proctor. This concert is to raise money for our Veterans. Tickets are $20. Bailey has just had her single "Finally Free" hit #42 on the Billboard Charts. This is an amazing accomplishment, and she's only 19. She has performed at the Bluebird Cafe, The Douglas Corner, The Listening Room, Wildhorse Saloon, a...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 37
February 07, 2022 03:27 - 1 hour - 132 MBMy guest this episode is my good friend Dustin Rykert. Many of you know him from his days playing football for BYU. Some of you remember him being drafted into the NFL, to the Oakland Raiders. Today you will hear his story from the beginning. He will tell you his struggles with addiction, that he has stuggled with for a lifetime. Addiction ended his NFL career, and he spiraled down. At one point he worked as Dennis Rodman's bodyguard, which didn't help someone who struggled with addiction. H...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 36
January 17, 2022 14:41 - 1 hour - 153 MBMy guest this week is my buddy Therapist Jed Thorpe. Well here we are again starting a new year, 2022. The last couple years have been plagued with a pandemic, and it seems to be going no where. Jed is here to talk about how to prepare for a rough year, regulating emotions and normalizing anxiety. We may jump off course and go other places as well. If you are like me, your mind takes you places and Jed was happy to go there.
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 35
January 10, 2022 14:06 - 1 hour - 122 MBToday my guest is my good friend Maria Howard. Maria is the Jr High Cross Country Coach. She lost a student to suicide that affected her greatly, and because of that she was driven to look in the mirror at herself, and work on her own mental health. This set her on a healing journey running 3000 miles. The journey all together was approx. 30 full days running. She will tell you about the why, and how it brought her healing. You aren't going to want to miss this.
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 34
December 06, 2021 13:00 - 1 hour - 114 MBMy friend Dr. Christy Kane and I discuss brain development and the effects of electronics on our youth. The effect of social media being developed to make us addicted through shots of Dopamine, and how too much can cause anxiety. We talk about trauma, and how it effects our mental health. We chat about PTSD, ACE's and how soon one should seek a mental health professional. We talk about how to stop the stigma of mental health and how to break down those barriers through compassion and empathy...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 33
November 15, 2021 13:27 - 1 hour - 174 MBI am excited to share a conversation with my good friend Dean Adams a former Marine for this special Veterans Day Edition of the podcast. Dean talks about growing up with a strong work ethic ranching in Salmon, Idaho. His family came to Tooele but later returned to Idaho when Dean was a teenager. They ran the family gold mine from a one bedroom cabin in the mountains. After high school, Dean enlisted and his journey began as a Marine. Hear how he was uniquely prepared for this life, and what...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 32
November 08, 2021 13:00 - 1 hour - 123 MBMy guest this week is Debbie Moline. We met a few weeks ago, and after a brief visit with my wife, Tracy told me you need to have her on your podcast. Debbie has had her fair share of challenges and trials. Debbie lost her 4 year old little girl to an accident, she has had cancer twice, a brain aneurysm and 44 surgeries. She struggled with thoughts of suicide after losing her little girl, but yet she is still here fighting. She believes she is a strong woman because of what she has lived thr...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 31
November 01, 2021 12:00 - 1 hour - 132 MBMy guest this week is Jen Deveraux. Jen is a #1 national best selling author and motivational speaker. She survived a horrific car accident. A fifty ton truck hit her at speeds of 60 mph. She struggled with infertility, adoption and divorce. She has now married the love of her life and together they are raising her tow children. Jen says, "I have endured, I have been broken, I have known hardship, I have lost myself. But here I stand, still moving forward, growing stronger each day. I will n...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 30
October 25, 2021 12:00 - 59 minutes - 125 MBListen in as I chat with one of my best friends, Becca Brown. Becca and I co-founded Life's Worth Living Foundation in February 2014, after the death of her brother Jed by suicide. She goes back and remembers that day, and the loss. We talk about drug addiction, and the results. She shares happy memories of her brother, and we chat about trying to turn this tragedy into something that would help others not have to go through what she went through. Since that day the Foundation has impacted t...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 29
October 19, 2021 12:00 - 45 minutes - 83 MBMy guest today is Amberley Snyder. Amberley is a barrel racer and inspirational speaker who fought her way back from tragedy. She was in a rollover accident which left her a paraplegic. Amberley is now inspiring thousands across America by telling her inspirational story and competing in rodeos across the Western United States. She has let the challenges she faces refine her not define her. She has a Netflix movie of her life, called "Walk Ride Rodeo" It is also available in book form on Ama...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 28
October 10, 2021 18:06 - 1 hour - 121 MBI am so excited to introduce you to my good friend Box Elder County Commissioner Stan Summers. I don't think you will meet anyone so empathetic. Find out why, as he shares his childhood with us, including the death of his mother when he was only 19. Stan and his beautiful wife Jennifer have had an amazing life, but not one without its challenges. Stan shares his story vulnerably about the loss of their first child, miscarriages and difficulties. He is my hero for the way he lives his life, t...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 27
October 04, 2021 12:00 - 1 hour - 158 MBToday my guest for the podcast is one of my friends since childhood, Diane Sykes Bartholomew. Diane agreed to come on the show and share her personal story of dealing with mental illness, depression and bi-polar 2. She shares about her dealing with suicide ideation, and a 72 hour involuntary hold in a mental health facility. I some of you will relate to what she went through, and for others it may give insight to what people feel when placed on a 72 hour hold. My hope is that this will give ...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 26
September 27, 2021 12:00 - 52 minutes - 99.7 MBI am so excited for you to hear the last episode of Suicide Prevention month, with my interview with country music star Matt Kennon. Matt's song "The Call" stopped me in my tracks when I first heard it. His message of prevention hit me hard, and brought me to tears. He summed up what I have been teaching for the past 8 years in three and a half minutes. I knew that I needed to feature him on the podcast. Not only does he share that song with us, but also two others, "My Last Prayer" & "You H...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 25
September 20, 2021 12:00 - 1 hour - 129 MBSo excited to share a real, and vulnerable conversation with my dear friend Ganel Lyn Condie about all things suicide. I believe this conversation will help so many. Ganel Lyn lost her 40 year old sister to suicide, and since then it has become her passion. She is a popular inspiring speaker, and author. She is the popular host of TALK CFM and THE MIDDLE. What an honor it was for me to sit down with her for an hour and just talk. I hope you enjoy. ganellyn.com
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 24
September 13, 2021 12:00 - 1 hour - 135 MBThis weeks episode features Malory Ruesch and her incredible story. Malory was deep in the throws of addiction, and became very desperate. In and out of jail, her world was spiraling out of control. That is until one day in a courtroom, that an unknown, and unexpected visitor arrived, Chuck. Chuck took her under his wing, and helped Malory decide to start living. This is where her future took a turn. Today, Malory gives credit to her angel Chuck, and she has become a force in the recovery wo...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 23
September 06, 2021 12:00 - 56 minutes - 102 MBThis weeks guest is my new friend Ben Schilaty. Ben is one of the co-hosts of the popular podcast "Questions from the Closet". He is an author of the book "A Walk in my Shoes", available at Deseret Book or Amazon. He is the Honor Code Administrator, and Adjunct Professor at Brigham Young University, and he is also gay. In this podcast we talk about how we can love and accept those that are part of the LGBTQ community. Why words matter, and how they can effect us. He talks about his personal ...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 22
August 30, 2021 12:00 - 1 hour - 73.2 MBPart 2 with my friend Mel Anderson. In last weeks episode Mel shared stories that would be most peoples worst nightmares. Mel lived those in real life, every form of abuse was handed out by her parents. We hear about her and Mike's escapes, and how they both joined the military. Mel went into the Army JAG program to become an attorney. In this weeks episode we learn about the alleged murder of her oldest brother she believes to be by her parents. Then we hear about the trial of her father be...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 21
August 23, 2021 12:00 - 1 hour - 138 MBMy guest Mel Anderson tells Part one of her story of enduring a childhood that would be anyone's worst nightmare. Violent abuse and neglect came at the hands of those who were meant to protect her. She was the second child of sixteen, in a dysfunctional family plagued by extreme physical, sexual, and emotional abuse at the hands of her parents who thrived on power and secrecy. Mel is a suicide attempt survivor, twice and she escaped a life of hell. With only a fourth grade education became a...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 19
August 09, 2021 12:00 - 1 hour - 169 MBThis weeks guest you may notice has the same last name as last weeks guest. Shantel Sullivan is the wife of David. I received numerous messages after his episode aired. A few of which said if you thought David's story was amazing, you need to hear his wife. Shantel shares her vulnerable and honest story, one of sexual and physical abuse. This early childhood trauma led her to a life of drug use and sexual activity as a pre-teen. That life ultimately caught up to her and she had her child tak...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 18
August 02, 2021 12:00 - 1 hour - 192 MBMy guest today is David Sullivan. At the request of one of my listeners, I brought David in to hear his amazing story. David bravely shares his story, which he calls, "My life, my story, my pain and my glory." Vulnerably David shares how his mother told him at age 8 that she only had 6 months to live, and how it affected him. Shortly after receiving this news David began drinking and doing drugs. This led him down a path of criminal activity and ultimately landed him in Federal Prison. David...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 17
July 26, 2021 12:00 - 1 hour - 122 MBMy guest is Brandy Vega. Brandy tells of her struggle as young girl with depression and suicide. In 2019 Brandy's twelve year old attempted to take her life. Brandy agreed to keep this between family out of respect to her daughter, and fear of what others would think. Then last February late one night the police came knocking letting them know they needed to check their daughter. A friend who she confided in had called the police. Because of that call her life was saved. She was given a seco...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 16
July 19, 2021 12:00 - 1 hour - 140 MBMy guest today is my friend Emelie Shinn. Emelie wants to share her personal story of her struggles with an eating disorder. Emelie has struggled for years and is now 107 days in recovery. Hear her why, and how it nearly cost her life. I learned so much from her, and know that this information will be beneficial. Maybe you yourself have struggled, or maybe a loved one has. It's our hope that you learn from this discussion. That it will help people struggling connect with resources, and get t...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 15
July 12, 2021 12:30 - 58 minutes - 123 MBTodays guest is my friend Charity Wilson. Charity had a pretty normal childhood, but at age 24 she was brought back to reality after a 3 month stay in a psychiatric hospital where she was diagnosed Bipolar. She doesn't have memory of her time there, or why she was taken there. She came home to a failing marriage, and struggling to find some sense of normal. The following decade she struggled with depression, a suicide attempt, and therapists. 2 years ago, because of trauma she was diagnosed ...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 14
June 21, 2021 12:30 - 57 minutes - 108 MBMy guest today is Dr. Robb Kelly. Robb lived an extraordinary life. Natural born musician, who played bass for the likes of Sir Elton John, Queen and David Bowie. He got married, swore to give up drinking when his child was born, swore again when the next baby came, but could never give it up. He stabbed his wife three times when she told him he had had enough. ultimately lost his wife, kids, business and everything and became homeless. One night a stranger took him off the streets, and he f...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 13
June 14, 2021 12:30 - 1 hour - 139 MBThis weeks episode is with my friend Debbie Bush. Debbie and I met in January after the loss of her 18 year old son Jayden. Jayden had a smile and personality that could light up any room. The Bush family was awakened in the middle of the night by one of Jaydens friends letting them know that they needed to find their son. That night the Bush families world changed in an instant. Hear directly from her how life has changed. How they are moving forward, and why she can't be silent about suici...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 11
May 31, 2021 13:00 - 1 hour - 136 MBMy guest this week is the one and only Jason Hewlett. I met funny man Jason in St. George at the Convention Center, he was the keynote and I was to follow him up with suicide prevention. I have never been that scared. On this episode he shares how covid19 turned his speaking world upside down. Vulnerably he shares where last year took him career wise, and what got him through. He talks about his new book The Promise to the One. Our discussion is one you won't want to miss. Hear what he has t...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 10
May 24, 2021 12:30 - 1 hour - 141 MBMy guest this week is my buddy Tom Proctor. Tom is well known for his long Hollywood career. He has been on hit TV shows like Nashville, Lawless and Justified. He has had major roles in many movies like Guardians of the Galaxy, 12 Years a Slave, Django Unchained and many more. Tom has begun a second career as The Tom Proctor Band, and is making his presence known in Nashville. Our good friend J. Marc Bailey another country artist connected us and together we all are going to host a large mus...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 9
May 17, 2021 12:30 - 1 hour - 138 MBMy guest today is my friend Alecea Petersen. Alecea heard the shot go off in her basement. It was her 14 year old son, Kodee. He had attempted suicide. The years following would be filled with hospitals, doctors and countless procedures. Kodee survived but not without struggle. Hear it from a mothers perspective. What went through her mind initially. What kept her strong. Today she fights to end the stigma of mental health. She is making a difference.
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 8
May 10, 2021 12:30 - 1 hour - 136 MBThis weeks guest is my friend Drew Holmes. Drew shares his story of addiction. His addiction sent him to prison, but he came out a new man ready to help others through their journey. It was with that goal in mind that he ultimately found himself once again struggling with a prescription drug prescribed by his doctor. He said when he took the Adderall, he instantly knew it would be his downfall. It got to a point he even had thoughts of suicide. Today Drew is in the middle of writing a book t...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 7
May 03, 2021 13:00 - 1 hour - 122 MBMy guest this week is Kengo James. Kengo tells us his story of growing up in a Japenese family in Utah. His life was Utah, while his home life was Japanese. In 8th grade he struggled with suicide ideation, until another student smiled at him, and he realized it was going to be okay. Although that didn't solve his problems, he knew he was seen. He now is an advocate for suicide prevention, and works with the youth to help them through. His positivity is contagious, Kengo is no doubt the kind ...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 6
April 19, 2021 13:00 - 1 hour - 141 MBThis weeks guest Travis Whittaker shares his story. Travis grew up with some adverse childhood experiences, and because of a back injury got addicted to pain killers. His addiction led him down a hole to where he struggled with suicidal thoughts. Ultimately, a terrible car accident led him to a recovery center where he turned his life around. Today Travis runs Living Recovery Interventions where he helps others find recovery. He is the host of Car Talk with Travis, a podcast where he discuss...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 5
April 12, 2021 13:00 - 1 hour - 149 MBThis weeks guest is my good friend, Tooele County Sheriff Paul Wimmer. We chat about when he knew he wanted to go into law enforcement. We talk suicide and first responders. We talk about how much they are called out on suicides, and what a difficult situation that is. Sheriff Wimmer shares how his families world was rocked in 2014 when his nephew took his life. Paul has seen the effects personally, and that has given him insight and empathy to suicide. He has been a champion of the Foundati...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 4
April 05, 2021 13:00 - 1 hour - 133 MBMy guest today is my new friend Beth Young. Beth teaches about the Five Pillars of Health. Those five are, What we eat and drink, movement, relationships, quality sleep, and stress management. She is a Tai Chi instructor, and we talk about how 45 minutes in to her first class, she began to feel immense joy, and she felt as though 100 lbs had been lifted from her shoulders. Beth is a life coach as well. She has a book on the way. Check out her website refuelingyourlife.com
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 3
March 29, 2021 13:00 - 1 hour - 133 MBToday my guest is my friend Summer Smart. At the end of Season 1, I reached out to the audience asking what we should discuss in Season 2, Summer reached out and recommended we talk about Postpartum Depression in men. It's a real thing. Summer lost her son 7 months ago, on the 2 month birthday of his newborn baby. Summer hopes to reach people who are struggling before it's too late. Give it a listen, you never know who this may help.
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 2
March 22, 2021 12:46 - 1 hour - 147 MBMy guest this week is a hero of mine. Christy Johnson is the Director of the Tooele Community Resource Center. Christy shares her story, that began at age 5 when her father died by suicide. He struggled with alcoholism. Hear how that event changed her life, and how she struggled without a father. Her story is filled with heartbreak. She has taken those struggles, and they have become her strengths. Hear how she uses those lessons learned to make our community a better place. She's incredible...
LWLF Podcast - Season 2 Episode 1
March 15, 2021 13:00 - 1 hour - 124 MBTo kick off Season 2 of the podcast, I brought my good friend Spencer Campbell. Spencer takes this entire episode to talk about bullying. We talk about the effects of bullying, and why the bully bullies. What the bullied person can do when experiencing the trauma and abuse of bullying. Spencer has overcome so much, and his life is in such a good place now. He recognizes how grateful he didn't end his life when he first thought about it. We talk sympathy and empathy. This is one of my favorit...
LWLF Podcast - Episode 52
March 08, 2021 14:30 - 1 hour - 158 MBWe look back on season one of the podcast. Where we have come from and where we are going. Huge thank you to you the listeners. 52 episodes down and ready for season two.
LWLF Podcast - Episode 51
March 01, 2021 13:30 - 1 hour - 222 MBMy guest this week is my friend Ace Morrill. Ace shares his story from being a "Dare" kid in school to unknowingly using drugs, and how he was hooked instantly. His addiction took his life in a direction he never thought it would go, and ultimately his addiction cost him his children, and led him to prison. While incarcerated Ace found the LDS 12 Step program, which from the moment the prayer was said he felt motivated to change. Now 7 years sober, he has served as a facilitator for the prog...
LWLF Podcast - Episode 50
February 22, 2021 13:30 - 1 hour - 131 MBMy guest, Nicole Marie Hilton had some adverse childhood experiences early on in life. Because of what she endured, she developed some mental health challenges. Nicole struggled with this for most of her life. On October 7th, 2020 she decided to end her life. She jumped off a 100 ledge in Southern Utah, in front of her parents, in an attempt she feels was brought on by a personal attack from Satan. She broke nearly every major bone in her body, ruptured many organs and instantly became a par...
LWLF Podcast - Episode 49
February 16, 2021 13:30 - 1 hour - 126 MBMy guest Korey Burris shares his personal story, which led to his attempting to take his own life at age 17. He has since been given the nickname "Shotgun". He talks about how Satan can put thoughts in your head, in your own voice that can lead one to suicide. He now works in suicide prevention in his hometown of Orange, Texas. He is a minister, and runs a Facebook group called Suicide Prevention & Gods Helpers. Hear his amazing story, and how he has overcome addiction and suicidal thoughts ...
LWLF Podcast - Episode 48
February 08, 2021 13:30 - 1 hour - 148 MBI was privileged to get to meet my guest Katie Cheshire at Live in Real Life, an event I spoke at, at Riverton High School. Katie is a gifted actress and singer. Katie has become a powerful mental health advocate. She is an attempt survivor, and part of the LGBTQ community. Her message is so needed, and can benefit us all. Hold on pain ends.