014: The Secret to Having Cooperative Kids

1 hour, 2 minutes
We are natural boundary testers from a young age. It's in our nature to discover how far we can go and what we are allowed (and not allowed) to do. This process can be a frustrating one for everyone involved. We as parents don't just want blind obedience. We want children who are eventually capable of deciding for themselves what they will do and who also make choices with us that are in the best interest of everyone in the boat. But how do we get there.

Ben and Rachel talk about the things we can do at any age to begin fostering cooperation and helping our children see and enjoy the benefit of being on the same team. Even as adults we don't always agree and sometimes have difficulty working together. In this episode Ben and Rachel will share how being grounded in connected relationships with our children causes cooperation to become more of a natural tendency instead of a fight.

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We are natural boundary testers from a young age. It’s in our nature to discover how far we can go and what we are allowed (and not allowed) to do. This process can be a frustrating one for everyone involved. We as parents don’t just want blind obedience. We want children who are eventually capable of deciding for themselves what they will do and who also make choices with us that are in the best interest of everyone in the boat. But how do we get there.

Ben and Rachel talk about the things we can do at any age to begin fostering cooperation and helping our children see and enjoy the benefit of being on the same team. Even as adults we don’t always agree and sometimes have difficulty working together. In this episode Ben and Rachel will share how being grounded in connected relationships with our children causes cooperation to become more of a natural tendency instead of a fight.

Highlights, Takeaways, Quick Wins

Don’t let your expectations for cooperation be above what your children are capable of doing.
Be consistent with your boundaries.
Kids enjoy having rules so that they know what’s expected of them.
Be the person who has courage that your children can lean on when they’re scared.
The secret to having cooperative kids is connection.
Your children will be more accepting of the outcome when they know that you understand how they feel.
When we spend one-on-one time with our kids, we have more patience when they don’t cooperate.
Our mindset about cooperation shapes and guides our children to become more cooperative.
When there’s a consequence for something, you don’t have to be emotionally connected to the outcome.
It’s valuable for our kids to know the reasons behind the rules that we have.

Show Notes

07:17 Ben: It was revolutionary for us to think about cooperation in this way, but it’s not fool proof. We’re not coming to this show saying, “Our kids cooperate 100% of the time and here’s how you can do it.” It’s a process and it’s a mindset, and it doesn’t always result in the outcomes you would hope for, but this is a way of thinking about it that’s a step in the right direction. It makes cooperation a different animal, a much easier thing that promotes relationship instead of driving a wedge.
08:09 Rachel: Yesterday, I spent the morning helping the twins, because they enjoy getting into their closet, taking all of their clothes down, and playing with the hangers. I spent the whole morning putting all of the clothes back, and I put them up where they couldn’t reach them. We spent one-on-one time with them yesterday and played with them, all of the things you’re supposed to do. Last night, when we went out of our room, they had pulled out their trundle bed, and apparently had been hoarding hangers underneath the trundle bed. They were playing sword fights with the hangers.
09:03 Ben: We’re big on having an approach to these things that promotes healthy relationships, because ultimately, that’s what’s going to lead to the long-term strength and relationship cooperation that you’re looking for. It is a little bit more difficult in the beginning. It would be easier to put my foot down and make threats, but that’s a shortcut, and it doesn’t set a foundation for the long-term relationship you want to have with your kids.
09:45 Rachel: It’s only a short-term fix, and we’ve seen that too. There are situations where we’ve reached the end and we’ve had to do that, and it only works for that moment.

Set Consistent Boundaries

10:04 Ben: Have an understanding of where your child is developmentally with their ability to cooperate. As we’ve talked about before, at a certain age, they don’t have as much of an ability to follow instructions, definitely not more complicated instructions. Even when they do, their impulses to do the opposite or something else may be very strong, and they may have difficulty not following those impulses because they haven’t developed that ability yet.

Don’t let your expectations for cooperation be above what your children are capable of doing.

11:03 That’s a way that we can manage our own emotions toward the situation. I was having a great conversation with Cory Miller this morning about his little girl. She is a little bit older than one now, and she’s getting into that phase where she’s getting into things. The twins are still doing that, and they’re three. Humans are hardwired to discover where the boundaries are. Imagine yourself in a room that’s completely shut off from light. Think about how unnerving that is; even with your eyes open, you look around, and it’s like you have your eyes shut. Maybe you make a noise to get a sense of what the space is like. Does the noise you made come back to you dead, like it’s a smaller room? Or does it echo, like it’s a bigger room?
12:21 You might even get brave enough to feel around and to test things. That’s essentially what our children are doing when they’re exploring and testing boundaries. They’re trying to find out where the borders are. How big is this space I’m in? They really want the security of knowing that boundary is not going to move or change. Even when their actions seem to contradict that, they want that kind of security. One of the things we can do that helps our child in that scenario is to be consistent with our boundaries. That can be difficult to do, because it seems sometimes like they’re testing all kinds of different things. Sometimes, it’s at a moment when you don’t have the bandwidth to deal with them.
13:29 If you notice them testing a specific boundary over and over again, focus on that one for now. Help them understand that here’s where the line is and you’re not backing off of that. Ultimately, that’s going to help them feel more secure and that security is going to translate into better cooperation.
13:54 Rachel: Kids enjoy knowing boundaries. I think of our eight year old. Last year, when he was having trouble in school, he had a teacher who was pretty laid back, who let him do a lot of the things he wanted to do. Then, when he changed teachers, he had a teacher who was much stricter about the structure of her classroom and what was allowed, and she communicated that clearly with him. He did 1,000 times better in that class. Sometimes, as parents, we think that we’re imposing too much and that we have too many boundaries, and maybe we should let them be a little freer. Sometimes I think about all the rules we have in our house and I think we should back off a little.

Kids enjoy having rules so that they know what’s expected of them.

14:53 Ben: It can be difficult. With our oldest, Jadon, he’s very smart and very strong willed. I was honestly concerned when he made the change to a different teacher, knowing that she was more strict and had more rules. I was concerned about how he would respond to that, and it was surprising to me to see how much he improved in his ability to manage his emotions in that setting. It made me realize that, as capable as our children seem, they’re learning how to be independent. They’re learning how to be disciplined.
15:35 There are things about themselves that they don’t have control over yet, and that’s scary. Those boundaries are a piece of security they can hold onto. As an adult, I feel more comfortable sometimes in clear working relationships when I know there are certain expectations and constraints. When I know what’s expected of me, I know how to engage in that relationship.
16:05 Rachel: On the other side of that, my mom was pretty trustful of us as children and allowed us freedom, especially when we became teenagers. I knew some kids who had really rule-driven homes and weren’t allowed to do things, and when they left for college, they went a little crazy. There’s a balance there too. The boundaries have to be good boundaries. The way I think about it is: is this important enough to fight about all the time? We have to choose our battles.
16:46 Ben: You almost want them to press into the boundaries as they grow before you move them out some more. Understanding what they can handle can be difficult because they seem more capable than they really are. It is a trial and error thing in that sense.
17:09 Rachel: It’s different for every family. It depends on the type of kid you have, how old they are, etc.

Establish Trust Early On

17:17 Ben: I had some folks in the chat mentioning that their children are really young, so it was difficult to know what kind of question to ask. When they’re young, they’re more inclined to be cooperative and listen to you because they don’t have much of an ability to do anything. They can’t go off on their own or get their own food. That’s not to say that in all situations they’re compliant. At that age, how do you prepare them to be more cooperative? Your children are invariably going to be in situations where they feel overwhelmed, scared, unsure of what to do. I’m even thinking about the times when our children have come into our room scared about something.
18:20 When they’re having that kind of emotional response, that’s a great opportunity to come alongside them and comfort them; demonstrate that you are capable and you can do something they can’t. You can feel comfort, calm, and confidence when they can’t, and you can bring that to them. They have that experience with you over and over, and that communicates to them that you’re capable of handling things that they can’t. You know things they don’t. When we provide that comfort for our kids, especially when they’re young, it builds that trust.
19:09 You don’t want them to feel not feel confident and capable of handling those things on their own as they grow, but it is good for them to see you as a source of comfort and someone who knows something they don’t and has insight that they don’t and, therefore, can be trusted with the things they don’t understand. That’s something you can begin to do early on by bringing them comfort when they feel scared or overwhelmed.
19:42 Rachel: That issue is a pretty complicated issue, too. We look at life in a much different way because we’ve had so much more time to live and learn from our experiences. Kids don’t have a whole lot of that. When I think about when our kids come and say that they’re scared and we say, “You have no reason to be scared,” they don’t know why they have no need to be scared. Sometimes, it’s enough to say, “I’m not scared. I’m not worried about it. I understand that you feel worried.”

Be the person who has courage that your children can lean on when they’re scared.

Connection Fosters Cooperation

20:40 Ben: The secret breaks itself out into different things. The secret to having cooperative kids is connection. It’s that personal connection versus imposing your will on them by making threats or punishing them if they don’t follow along. The way you get willing cooperation is by having a connected relationship with your child, where they trust you and they see you as someone who is working in their best interest. What I love about what Rachel is saying is that there’s a real empathy to seeing what your child is experiencing through their eyes vs. your own personal understanding or experience.
21:44 You can exercise that empathy in many different ways. One way is by recognizing when they’re scared and understanding that the fear they’re feeling is really big to them, even though it seems small to you. Get outside of yourself and say, “I know this seems small, but I’m going to try and see what this might feel like from their perspective.” You can do that for a number of things. When it’s time to leave the park and they’ve been playing and having a good time, think about how it feels from their perspective. They’ve been doing something that’s super fun, they’re having a great time, and they don’t want it to end. They’re filled with joy.
22:31 Rachel: They don’t know when or if they’ll get to do it again.
22:36 Ben: They don’t understand the concept of time. They don’t get the importance of other things you have to do that day. They don’t understand what it means to have to run errands or pay bills or anything like that. They don’t have that context. That doesn’t mean that you’re not going to leave the park, but it helps you approach your children from their perspective, not just your own. Think about what it looks like when you call in to customer service and you’ve had a bad experience with your internet connection. Think about the difference between your experience with a customer service representative who’s dismissive and one that says, “I would feel frustrated too.” Think about how disarming that is.
23:43 A lot of times, especially when we’re feeling emotional, what we want more than our outcome is to feel heard and understood. Once you hear and understand me, the outcome is going to be whatever it is. Because someone understands how I feel about this, I’m going to be okay. We can do that for our children as well. We can help them feel understood and feel heard, that we understand what they’re going through. The outcome is going to be the outcome, but:

Your children will be more accepting of the outcome when they know that you understand how they feel.

24:32 Rachel: Empathy and getting on the same side as our children is just one part of having cooperative kids. The most important thing is the relationship you have. The biggest thing for me is spending one-on-one time with each kid.

One-On-One Time Fosters Connection

25:02 Ben: Spending quality, one-on-one time is one of the bigger foundational pieces of this connection. Rachel and I had a conversation recently about the choices she made about how she was going to spend her time with the kids.
25:25 Rachel: This is a hard thing for me and for any parent. Spending one-on-one time with a child is hard when you work and there’s always something to do at home—dishes and laundry need to be done and your spouse still needs time. It can sometimes feel overwhelming. For me, as a mom of six, sometimes I get to the end of the day and I haven’t spent any one-on-one time with the kids.
25:58 You definitely notice a difference. A while ago, we eased into having snuggle time six days a week. We would just take one kid and do it each time. Lately, I’ve been studying some other things and realizing anew how important it is to spend even five minutes with each of my kids. If I took five minutes for each of them, that’s half an hour out of my day. That’s not too much to ask in the name of cooperation.
26:34 Ben: You have to think about the investment you’re making. It’s about the relationship and the closeness there. If you’re concerned about your time, it’s not going to be one of those things where you invest 30 minutes a day and because of all the cooperation you’re experiencing now you have an extra 30 minutes you didn’t have before. You’re laying a foundation for something that is going to equal something really meaningful time-wise, in terms of the cooperation, being on the same page with your kids, and having strong communication. All those things add up and there can be a huge return on that investment over time.

When we spend one-on-one time with our kids, we have more patience when they don’t cooperate.

27:30 Rachel: I’ve spent time with them and reconnected with them, so I don’t get as ruffled and it doesn’t feel as urgent to me as it would. “Disconnected relationships” sound like a bad thing, but it can happen if we’re not investing time with our kids. In those busy seasons, we can move through our lives and be almost completely disconnected. We’re still spending time with them, but in our home it’s like a herd. You’re spending time in this herd, so you see them as a group instead of as individuals.
28:24 When one acts out, because there’s always going to be someone who does, it feels like everyone is acting out and it builds up to be this huge deal. That’s the place we were with our twins before we started really intentionally trying to see them as two different people. One would always wake up to be the defiant child and there was never a break from that, so it felt like, collectively, they were so incredibly challenging.
29:05 Ben: Maybe there are some folks out there who don’t understand that, but when you have a large group of people you’re working with, it’s difficult in the chaos to make that distinction emotionally. Intellectually, you can sit down and say, “Yeah, he did this and he did this. He was doing fine, and he wasn’t even in the room.” Emotionally, though, it can feel like it’s all souped together.
29:36 Rachel: What I’ve been trying to do is to take five minutes. One of the boys was playing with a pattern-play game the other day, and I just sat on the floor and watched him. I didn’t do anything, but I wanted him to know that I was there watching him for five minutes, because it was time that he had with me. It’s simple things we can do like that to foster that connection.
30:00 Ben: When you can, let it be one-on-one. Let it truly be just you and that other individual, uninterrupted. It should be an activity they’re interested in, something they want to do. Sometimes we have snuggle times, and whoever I’m snuggling with tonight will say, “I want to do this tonight!” And I’m really not in the mood. Sometimes we’re really not in the mood to do what they want to do, whether it’s to work on a puzzle or play with Legos. I wonder if it would be okay to say, “I don’t really feel like doing that, but because you want to do it, I want to spend time with you, so I’ll sit with you while you do that.”
30:55 Rachel: They hardly ever have our eyes watching them and them alone. I know this is super hard to do. It has been a challenge for me personally because it feels like everything is always so urgent in our household, and as a working mom, it’s hard already to balance life, home, and all the responsibilities that come with that. I’m learning that this is the biggest way we can get cooperation from our kids.
31:34 Ben: It can be something like five minutes. It’s amazing the difference just five or ten minutes can make. It doesn’t have to be hours of time.

Be a Student of Your Child

31:49 Another way we can foster this connection is to be a student of our children. The more we do that, the more we can understand the source of some of their behavior. We should be students of where they are developmentally, like we were talking about in the beginning. That will help us manage our expectations. Also, we should be students of their personality type. What is their love language (Related: e008 How Knowing Your Child’s Personality Type Can Help You Speak Their Language)? The more you understand about where your child is coming from, the better. What are the circumstances that caused them to be in a bad mood? Are they the kind of person who is super cranky when they’re hungry? Discover those things. That’s more of a benefit to us than it is to them.

When we understand our children, we have a different response to them under different circumstances.

33:17 It brings us back to empathy. When I remember that if Rachel hasn’t had something to eat for hours, she’s going to snap at me, instead of reacting to that, I know that she’s just hungry. We had a little argument and I came back into the room and we looked at each other and Rachel said, “I’m really hungry,” and I said, “I’m really tired.” That was all we needed.
33:59 Rachel: As a disclaimer, we don’t ask ourselves this all the time, because we’re not perfect parents all the time, there’s a question we ask ourselves. We got this question from Susan Stiffelman’s book, Parenting Without Power Struggles. In a chapter where she talked about cooperation, she said to look at what your child is doing and turn it in the opposite direction. Say, your child is continuously getting out of bed at night when it’s supposed to be bed time. In order to analyze the situation quickly, you say, “Why shouldn’t my child get out of his bed?”
34:41 Ben: We would normally say, “My child should stay in bed.” That’s the way we think; that’s where we start. We have all these reasons why they should stay in bed. That goes back to the empathy thing. Ask the opposite question: “Why should my child stay in bed?” They should want to get out of bed, because being in bed is boring when you don’t feel sleepy. Sleeping is boring when you have all this imaginative stuff in your head that you want to do.
35:16 Getting into the closet, taking hangers out, and doing sword fights sounds like a lot of fun. I know I’m a grown man, but if Rachel said, “Hey Ben, I’m going to grab a couple hangers from our closet and we’re going to have a play sword fight,” I’d be game. A lot of this is directed toward us. It’s not something you do wiht the kids, but it’s something that starts with us.

Our mindset about cooperation and our relationship with our children shapes and guides them to become more cooperative.

Disconnect From the Outcome

36:09 It’s got to start with us. One thing I try to do is to stay emotionally disconnected from the outcome I want to see. When we display an emotional connection to the outcome, it’s difficult for us to help our children understand that we’re interested in what’s best for the family. We’re interested in what’s best for everyone. We know things they don’t know. When someone shows you that they’re emotionally connected to some outcome, it’s difficult to see them as somebody who’s looking at the situation objectively, and it’s easier to discount what they’re trying to do.
37:05 As parents, we can put ourselves in a much better position when we approach these things objectively. Really matter-of-fact: this is going to be a better thing and this is what we’re going to do. We do this instead of getting angry and up-in-arms, and that’s incredibly hard to do. It takes a great deal of practice and discipline. It’s something I feel like I’m honestly at the beginning of my journey of really grasping.
37:37 Rachel: When I think of that, I think of cleanup time in our house. I always feel emotionally connected to having our house clean and tidy, because when there are toys everywhere, it eats at me. When it comes to cleanup time, it’s really hard to disconnect myself from that outcome. We have a rule in our house that if you don’t clean up what you play with, that gets put away for a week. You don’t get to play with it for a whole week. I try to approach it from this matter-of-fact way to say, “Okay guys, it’s time to clean up. You remember the rule, right?” If they don’t remember, I restate it. I let them live with that outcome. It only takes a few minutes for me to clean it up if they’re not going to do it.
38:41 Ben: It’s so hard; I want to say it through clenched teeth. This is another thing Cory and I talked about this morning that was really good:

When there’s a consequence for something, you don’t have to be emotionally connected to the outcome.

39:08 You just point to the consequence and say, “Oh no, you didn’t clean it up. I guess you’ll have to experience this consequence now. That’s too bad. I feel bad for you.” Rachel said that she had an emotional connection to the cleanliness of the house. That is in her interest; she’s the one who wants a clean house. The kids don’t care. It’s okay to explore why they should care, why it should matter to them even if it doesn’t connect directly to them.
39:52 If it’s important for you, if it helps you to be a more clear-thinking human being, they benefit from that. It’s okay to explain why. I’m not a big fan of the, “Because I told you so,” thing. It’s valuable that our children trust us enough to listen to us in the moments when it’s really important for them just to unquestioningly follow our lead. I’ve had it happen to me too many times where it’s a pride thing. I’m in a store and they’re not doing what I want them to do; I’m not reacting out of their best interest, I’m reacting out of not wanting other people to think that I’m not in control of this situation.
40:54 “Because I said so,” is a wall. You’re saying, “I’m the great and powerful Oz behind the curtain, and you don’t get to see these levers I’m pulling.” Certainly, the child can’t understand all of those things, but when you begin to let them into that world and you help them to see some of the practicality behind the “magic,” it helps them understand more of what’s going on. That’s not a negative thing, that’s promotes connection and relationship that ultimately leads to more cooperation.
41:41 Rachel: I remember when our first was young. He’s always been a negotiator; we used to joke that he would be a lawyer. I remember being told by other people that we shouldn’t engage in negotiations with our kid, but I feel like it’s really valuable. We get to have this exchange. We don’t always have time for it; there are times when we have to say, “You just have to do this because I don’t have time to explain.”

It’s valuable for our kids to know the reasons behind the rules we have.

42:23 Ben: There are parents who are thinking, “Sometimes the things I ask of my children are self-centered.” Most of the time, even if it isn’t some thing that directly benefits them, because it benefits you, it indirectly benefits your children. There are many other sacrifices you make on a daily basis as a parent, so it’s okay, healthy, and good for you to ask some things of your children that are self-serving.
43:01 As your children grow and are able to understand, they’re able to understand the sacrifices you’re making and that you make them because you love them and want the best for your family, and they’ll understand the goodness of the things you do for yourself that help you to be more of a whole person, which also benefits the family. I want to set you free from feeling guilty about those things. Sit down, look at that, and say, “Yes, it is self-serving. But when things go the way I’d like them to go with this particular thing, it helps me to feel more free in this area, which benefits my kids.” Make those connections.
43:49 Don’t just let yourself live in guilt because you want something for yourself. That’s not where you need to be. An example of that for me would be bedtime. We have a very strict rule about after a certain time, the only reason they’re allowed to come into our room is if there’s an emergency.
44:25 Rachel: An emergency is: somebody’s bleeding, somebody’s dying, or there’s a fire.
44:41 Ben: I’m still having a hard time unwrapping myself from being emotionally connected to the outcome of them not following this rule, but I will say that I can defend it with confidence. I know that when I have that time to myself and when I get enough sleep, I make better decisions as a father, I’m much more clear-headed, and I’m much more capable of detaching myself emotionally from a situation so I can approach it with a cool head. All of those things are tremendous benefits to my kids’ daily experiences. I’m not just defending it for me, but I’m defending it for them.
45:26 Rachel: On the other side of that is a child’s perspective. The one who normally gets out the most is our eight year old. He’s very much like me, very much an introvert. He gets overwhelmed by the noise in our home and the constant voices. When I think about the reasons he would get out of his bed, I think about the reasons I would want to get away from everyone. He hasn’t really had us to himself a whole lot during the day. Now his brothers are all in bed, and he’s like, “I can go see Mom and Dad now.” It makes sense to me why he would do that, but there still needs to be that boundary. I get to a certain point at night where I need nobody to say any more words to me; I’ve had enough words for the day.

Conclusion

46:38 Ben: The secret is having connection with your kids, and you foster that connection through having empathy, which includes understanding where they are developmentally, being a student of your child, understanding how they respond to certain situations and what kind of emotional language they speak. Most importantly, spend quality time with them one-on-one where you’re doing something they’re really interested in and there’s no chance of interruption; it’s just the two of you. Finally, let them into your world. Help them understand and see things the way you do and demonstrate for them what it looks like to make decisions that are in the best interest of the family and not just in your own interest.
47:35 Hanna in the chat said, “Something that helps me—and this seems really obvious, but we forget—is to remember that little kids are people. And, often, they are feeling the same things you would be feeling, but they can’t express it as well. For example, my in-laws stayed with us for three weeks last month, and I am an introvert. I was getting short tempered and physically tired by the end of their stay. My husband was sympathetic because I could explain it. Our youngest is also introverted, and was getting very cranky and acting out a lot, taking more naps in the car and sleeping in later. It was the exact same response I was having, but for some reason, it took us longer to catch on. She wasn’t being difficult. When we figured it out and started giving her more quiet time, she rapidly improved.”
49:03 Charla had another great comment: “I think the key to cooperative kids in our house is to have some routine and consistency. When life gets crazy, or after life has been crazy, they have a harder time hearing us and responding appropriately. If I’m really engrossed in a project, as I have been this week, their behavior shows it.”

If I’m more conscientious of my children’s need for stability, they’re much more eager to cooperate again instead of challenging me.

49:48 Christopher said, “My son is one and a half years old now. We try to involve him in what we do, reading our books in his reading area. He loves to watch us cook, so we got him cooking toys. We split our time with what we do alone without him to child-equivalence as he gets bigger. He loves to help sweep the patio. Will his interest in our activities fade? He already walks away to do his own thing when he gets bored.”
50:41 This is an experience we’re pretty familiar with, where when the kids are young, they show interest in what we’re doing and they want to help out. As they get older and they pick up more skills, there’s something magical about being a child and watching an adult do something you don’t know how to do. There’s also something magical about picking up that skill and pretending you can do it. When that “magic” starts to go away, that’s when it seems like they’re losing interest. The best thing you can do is enjoy that while it lasts and not expect them to always be interested in the same things.
51:33 As adults, there are people we enjoy spending time with, even though we don’t share a lot of the same interests. Don’t let you kid’s lack of interest in an activity make you question whether there is strength in that relationship or whether they’re still interested in spending time with you. There is going to be a time when they’re not interested in doing something, and they have to do it anyway. They have to exercise discipline in order to carry that out, and that’s something that’s really good for them. It’s going to prime them for moments in the future when they have a big goal, and that goal includes something they’re really passionate about, but it also includes many other things they don’t particularly enjoy doing. It’s fun when they share those interests, but it’s also good when they don’t.
53:01 Rachel: There are things we can do to foster interest in some of those areas. We did an episode about helping your kid fall in love with reading (Related: e005 How to Help Your Kids Fall in Love With Reading). I think about the work that I do; I read a whole lot because I’m a writer. We read a lot of books out loud, books I have on my list I’ll put on their list, and they’re always interested in it, and right now we’re working on summer projects. They chose to write a picture book. We have three picture books we’re working on, and they’re going through and doing the illustrations. There are things we can do as families to help foster that interest and let it have some longevity in our lives.
53:52 Our oldest is eight, and he still has a lot of interest in what we do. He asks about our processes, and he’s mesmerized by a lot of those things. As we talk about those things with our kids, as we bring them in and show them what we do, because of their relationship with us, they’re going to find it interesting.