Ben Esposito, developer of Donut County, joins Drew this week to talk a bit about the first game about a hole in the ground. Ben also has credits on titles such as, What Remains of Edith Finch and The Unfinished Swan. The conversation turns to Ben's Jewish heritage and upbringing and the urge to question what you are taught to believe blindly and why Super Mario Odysseyis truly a freaky and violent game.