Homer - The Odyssey - Episode 5 - Homer And Penelope Reunited!

Homer - The Odyssey - Episode 5 - Home And Penelope Reunited!

Hi, I’m Christy Shriver and we’re here to discuss books that have changed the world and have changed us. 

And I’m Garry Shriver and this is the How to Love Lit Podcast.  Today we conclude our discussion over the Odyssey, the timeless 24 books that introduced us to so many monsters and legends, but, of course, it goes without saying, we’ve just scratched the surface in understanding how all of this has influenced our world.  In fact, even as we claim to be on the last episode, we’re still just a little over halfway through the story itself.  Our task today is to fly through the rest of the books in 45 minutes give or take a few.  Can we do it?  

We’ll give it a try.  Obviously there is no way to discuss everything that could be said or even has been said about  Homer himself, these books and all the themes so cleverly weaved.  We’ve chosen to hit the points thematically which stand out the most and of course- that leads us to the all-important Greek idea of WEAVING.   

Oh yes, the woman and their weaving.  Christy, how good of a weaver are you? 

Well, you know the answer to that- I have no idea how to weave, spin or even sew.  I can sew on a button.  You know my mother and both of my grandmothers were amazing seamstresses.  My mom even competed in 4H in sewing competitions at Boones Creek High School in Gray, Tennessee.  And your sisters Barbara and Deanna are amazing seamstresses.  But not me.  And of course, sewing is not weaving.  In my mind, although this is nowhere near historical fact,  over time weaving has simplified itself to sewing because we don’t have to make our own cloth, and now sewing has become ordering off of Amazon because now most of us don’t sew.    Instead we push buttons …. on a phones.  

HA!  Well, first of all that analysis of the disintegration from weaving to ordering on Amazon is somewhat deliberately ridiculous, but if you’re going to go there, don’t take away from the talent of finding the sale and couponing.  There’s an art to that.     

 I guess so, but back to the ancient Greeks, it’s easy to overlook if you’re not paying attention to the female characters really, but Homer places an enormous emphasis on weaving throughout the Odyssey, even the goddesses weave- Circe and we’ll see here at the end- Athena herself.  It clearly indicates how interwoven (if I may use this term) weaving was to the idea of womanhood.  Tell us a little bit about how important weaving was in Ancient Greece.   

For sure….spinning and weaving were incredibly important in the expectations for women during this time period.  The was a definite and strong connection between a woman’s ability to weave and her desirability as a woman.  Even depictions of goddesses that we see today on ancient art work are often depictions of the goddess weaving.  Athena, btw, was the goddess of women’s handicrafts, so of course, weaving and spinning were important elements of her cult.  In fact,  weaving a robe for the statue of Athena, was a part of the very important Panathenaic festival in Athens at the Acropolis.   In the archeological digs found in Greece archeologists have found all kinds of tools used in spinning and weaving.  There is evidence of looms and textiles and strong evidence linking the female contribution in terms of textiles to economic trading at a domestic level as well as a commercial industry.  It’s interesting to understand that women of all social classes were weaving- from the lowest slaves to the highest noble women like we saw in Queen Arete of the Phaeacians.  Girls would learn to work wool and weave and would spend a big portion of their time on their “trousseau”.  A trousseau is a collection of all the garments, soft furnishings, beddings, and clothes that a girl would produce during her childhood and would represent her contribution to her marriage.   

Yikes, again, I’d be a world of hurt. I can’t imagine what my trousseau would look like.  But even without knowing that insight about weaving, it doesn’t take much to see that clothes are a big part of the all important recognition scenes that are basically what these last books are about- It’s an interesting element of the story to notice how clothes are used by Homer to designate identity.  But before we do that, I wanted to weave in an anecdote, since we’re on the subject the weaving and mythology.  Let’s take a second to talk about Arachne and Athena.   

Arachne as in where we get the word arachnophobia- fear of spiders. 

Yep, so the story goes that Arachne was a girl in Ancient Greece who was so good as weaving and spinning that she went around telling people she was a better weaver than Athena.  Well, obviously this made Athena mad , so Athena challenged her to a weaving dual.  They set up their looms in the same room and wove all day and into the night.  When they finished, they compared their artifacts.  Well, Athena had woven a scene of all the gods and goddess on Mt. Olympus sitting together doing good deeds for humanity.  Arachne wove a cloth of all the gods and goddess on Mr. Olympus but in hers they were all getting drunk and falling over themselves.  Archne’s was clearly the better craftmanship, but Athena didn’t care. She pointed her finger at Arachne and made her entire body shrivel up to what today we would call a spider.  She said, “You want to spin, go ahead and spin!”  And so there you have it.  

Oh my, well, I will say, Arachne really should have known better; I would say the first rule of the gods is don’t hack off the gods.   

So, true. 

So, by way of recapping, in episode 1, we discussed the poet Homer and the set up for this story.  We introduced the idea that Homer does not take credit for writing the story, the Muse sung it to him- the story comes from the gods and is about a man Dr. Wilson translates as a complicated man; Fagles calls him the man of twists and turns.  We learn at the beginning of book 1, that after offending Poseidon and wandering the sea for ten years, Odysseus returns home- a place called Ithaca- but he arrives there shipwrecked and alone- all of his companions destroyed by their own recklessness: They should never have eaten Helios’ cows.  

Indeed, next we introduced this Greek idea that there are things that happen to us as humans that are not our fault that are caused by the gods.  That is a thing, but there are many things that happen to us that ARE our fault because of our own foolishness and often we blame the gods for things that were always in our control.  Of course, what happened to Odysseus falls into this category.  What happened to him was caused by him because he did not respect the gods and the rules of the universe they created.  What happened to him also happened to him because he just couldn’t let his ego rest- he had the fear of being a nobody.  

He isn’t the only person on this earth with that fear. In episodes 2 and 3 we looked at the world the gods created and the values they instructed men to live by.  Episode 2 we looked at books 1-4, often called the Telemachy, and we watched Telemachus develop as a man.  Of course, the first tip to developing into a man is to learn to listen to Athena (something Arachne should have paid attention to).   

Indeed, maybe we wouldn’t have so many dangerous spiders, if she had.  In episode 3, we talked about Xenia and how fundamental hospitality is to the books of the Odyssey as well as the lives of the Ancient Greeks.  Well, if I’m honest, really not just the Greeks but many cultures around the globe- ancient and contemporary.  We talked about Polyphemus, the one eyed-cyclopes and how his lack of hospitality could be contrasted with some of the many other examples of hospitality we see all over the epic.  We talked about how the hospitality scenes are type scenes and we can learn a lot by comparing them to each other. 

On a side note, I was reading a little bit about the Odyssey this week and one writer asked a very interesting question, I don’t know the answer to.   

Oh yeah, what is it.   

This guy wondered how two Greeks gods, Polyphemus’ mother was a beautiful sea nymph, but he wondered how two beautiful Greek gods could possibly have an ugly child with only one eye. 

HA!  That’s a great question. Did you find the answer? 

No.  I can’t.  So, if anyone out there knows, connect with us on our social media or via email.  I’m interested.   

Well, back to our story and the role Polyphemus plays in the Odyssey highlights a burning need inside of Odysseus.  Odysseus, after Polyphemus begins eating his men one by one, is able to blind the cyclopes and then sneak away and back onto his ship.  Blind and enraged Polyphemus begins hurling rocks at Odysseus as Odysseus leaves.  Odysseus’ big mistake came, not from blinding Polyphemus, but from taunting him.  As he leaves, Odysseus just can’t leave it alone, he tells Polyphemus that if anyone ever asks who blinded him to tell him it was Odysseus.  He had previously told Polyphemus his name was Nobody- but he just couldn’t leave it at that.  Odysseus didn’t want to be a nobody, he wanted to be a somebody, he wanted to be the recognized leader of his oikos- and he was going to strive for that- no matter if it took the entirety of his mortal life.  He would pay any price to get him- he would even relinquish the offer of immortality. 

And so Odysseus takes his ten year odyssey to get there.  I will say- it is not lost on me that one of the most central ironies of the entire story is that here at the very beginning Odysseus cannot let a lie stay a lie- but for the rest of the epic especially here at the end, we see that, Odysseus is not just extremely comfortable lying, but  In fact, it’s his trademark.  He prides himself on his ability to deceive.  This last half of the book is literally him lying and deceiving first one group of people than another- all the way until the last chapter where he lies to his own dad for no apparent reason. 

So true, strangely enough, though, Athena finds it admirable and helps him conceal time and time again.  Odysseus calls it tactics.  He learns to use deceit and recognition as a weapon for survival.  What we’re going to see as Homer  brings the story to its dramatic climax, from a literary stand point is that Homer is him using a type-scene to structure- the recognition scene.  Remember a type scene is a scene that is repeated over and over again.  There are over a dozen of these in the second half of the book and they pretty much follow a similar pattern- first Odysseus tests the person he wants to reveal himself to.  He wants to know if they are loyal, not just to him, but to the oikos.  He uses deception and concealment in the testing process.  Most of the time, he tells these crazy stories about who he is and where he’s been.  After going through some long convoluted story about some fake travel, he either foretells that Odysseus will return- or he reveals his true identity- depending on the audience.  

Well.  Never again after Polyphemus will he make the rash decision of just openly stating his identity- not even to Penelope.  Athena is most responsible for his many disguises- She changes his physical appearance and she gives him false covers of other kinds, including these convoluted stories.  The whole game is to go into the place, conceal who he is until he’s in full control of the moment, and then together with the gods make his move.  Here at the end, he and his oikos  will be given divine power to overthrow the suitors, reclaim his physical space and title, AND do all of this without starting a war with the families or oikos from which all these suitors come from- that’s a trick even greater than killing the suitors. 

So true, and to bring this back to weaving and textiles for just a second, I think it’s one important thing to pay attention to the role people’s clothes pay in identifying who they are.  It is very clear that in Homer’s world, a person’s outfit is very much a way of determining how they ranked in society.  Textile gifts are a big deal.  Notice how important it is to be dressed in the proper way in order to receive the proper respect.   

Well, of course, this is not uncommon in all cultures and a very important psychological observation.   I think it was Virginia Wolfe, the British writer, who said, “Vain trifles as they seem, clothes have, they say, more important offices than merely to keep us warm.  They change our view of the world and the world’s view of us… There are endless studies on the role of clothing functioning as identification.     

Which I guess the simplest way to see what we have going to here is to reduce it to this:  A king without a proper tunic is not a king.  Odysseus dressed as a beggar is not Odysseus.  He may be so in his head, in Telemachus’ head and even in Athena’s head, but until he is recognized from the outside, he cannot reclaim his oikos.   And we see clothing playing an important part in the various recognition scenes. 

The goddess Athena before she allows Telemachus to recognize his father, she makes a point to- before she even changes Odysseus body- to change his clothes.  Let’s read that famous passage where Athena reveals to Telemachus that his father has come home. 

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It soon turns into such a sweet passage.  A son recognizing a father; a father recognizing a son.   

For sure it’s sweet, but in one sense the word “recognition” isn’t really the right word here.  Telemachus doesn’t know his father.  He can’t possibly recognize him.  Which I think is an interesting thing to pay attention to as we go through all these scenes.  All of these people who Odysseus presents himself to have different relationships with Odysseus.  Telemachus has an intimate relationship with his father in one way, but he has no shared history with him.  He has no idea what his father is capable of which comes out in their dialogue. Telemachus is quick to tell his father that reclaiming the oikos is not just a matter of showing up.   

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He goes on to count them out-- we have at a minimum 106 posers maybe more. 

To which Odysseus responds that he’s not worried.  He’s being flanked by Athena and Father Zeus. 

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That would make me feel more confident. 

I know right.  And Telemachus does seem a little more confident, at least he talks to his mom more brazenly, which I find annoying, to be totally honest- can’t get rid of that arrogance of the presence.  But he also talks more boldly to the suitors as well.  I love that Odysseus cannot keep his identity a secret from his old nurse.  The recognition scene with Eurycleia is the only one that he does not initiate.  When she washes the beggars feel and legs, she touches the scar and immediately knows what’s going on.  Of course this freaks him out and he threatens her, needlessly, I might add.   

Don’t forget about Argos, the dog.  Argos recognizes him.   

 True, there is a lot of drama that goes on as Odysseus, disguised as a beggar, loiters around his home and watches how horrible all the suitors are behaving.  The place is in utter chaos and the whole thing is designed to fill him with rage.  I did want to draw just a small minute of attention to book 19 when the beggar and Penelope talk.  At this point in the story, Penelope does not know that Odysseus is Odysseus- at least we aren’t told that she knows.  There are many scholars that are absolutely convinced she knows who he is and is faking it, but the interaction between the two is sweet no matter what.  Odysseus, as he always does, tells a long elaborate lie about who he is.  However, during the course of his story, he claims that he met Odysseus.  Penelope wants to test the beggar so she asks him to describe what Odusseys was wearing when he met him.  Let’s read that part.   

Page 397 

For something he saw all those years ago, that’s quite a bit of detail he remembers.   

And of course, this makes Penelope cry because she had given him that outfit and fastened the brooch on herself.   

Well, it isn’t too long after that that the scene will be set for Odysseus’ complete revelation.  Just as a recap for those who haven’t read the story in a while.  Penelope has made the decision that it is time to pick a husband.  She has gone into the vault and pulled out Odysseus’ old bow- one he never took to Troy.  She goes downstairs and faces the suitors with a challenge that will decide her fate.  Let’s read what she says. 

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The part about all the suitors getting up and trying to string the bow is just classic dramatic build up.  Finally the beggar gets his turn courtesy of Penelope, Eumaeus the swineherd, and even Telemachus.  The suitors have no idea what hits them…it’s a pun!! 

Oh my, it is!! I do want to point out that the recognition scene with Eumaeus and Philoetius in book 21, is very quick.   

There’s not any time.The bow contest is heating up and revenge is coming.   

That’s true, but I also think what we are witnessing is this progression from the less intimate relationships towards the most.  He didn’t know Telemachus at all, not really.  He did know Eurycleia, the swineherd and the goatherd, but his relationship with these is one of master/servant- employer/employee- to use our language.  He engages them here like, in some sense in the old way. Odysseus needs these servants, as well as Eurycleia, to come through for him right here.  Eumaues had already spent quite a bit of time with Odysseus as a beggar, and Eumaeus had already made multiple comments as to how much this beggar resembled Odysseus so he was pretty much primed.  But Philoteus had been primed too, if you remember at one point Odysseus, as a beggar asks Philoetius, if Odysseus were to come back would you help him?  Both of these were familiar with his scar and he uses it as evidence- really the only evidence- except they fall back into the old work relationship they enjoyed back in the old days. Odysseus’ tone is matter of fact and authoritative at this point.  They are very comfortable falling back into this relationship and it isn’t really much of a struggle.  

This point where the suitors recognize Odysseus is one of the most exciting parts of the whole story. Even after Odysseus strings the bow and shoots the arrow through the axes, the suitors really don’t know what’s going on.  It’s really only after Antinous is murdered in front of them, that they really start to figure out what’s happening.  But of course, whether they recognize Odysseus at this point really doesn’t matter at all- they are getting ready to die. 

  Page 439  

Homer does like to get graphic with his death scenes and I have to admit they are super-fun.  IF you don’t read anything but like gore- reading chapter 22 is worth a perusal.  Eurymachus tries to broker a deal.  And the poor female slaves, they have a pretty terrible end.  Their existence and the fact that the suitors took them as their concubines- whether or not the women were given an option makes no difference.  They are a source of shame to the oikos and must go.  

 “”With that, taking a cable used on a dark-prowed ship he coiled it over the roundhouse, lashed it fast to a tall column, hoisting it up so high no toes could touch the ground.  Then, as doves or thrushes beating their spread wings against some snare rigged up in thickets- flying in for a cozy nest but a grisly bed receives them- as the women’s heads were trapped in a line, nooses yanking their necks up one by one so all might die a pitiful, ghastly death…they kicked up heels for a little- not for long.”   

Odysseus is cleaning.  Eurycleia brought her master fire and brimstone.  He is purging the halls, the palace, the court- all of it.  It’s quite a picture of devastation and renewal- however- even with all of the emphasis Homer puts on the end of the suitor- the killing or the revenge isn’t the main thing.  Much more attention is given to Odysseus becoming recognized by those that matter most- his father and his wife- the completion of his oikos.  And that is yet to come- chapters 23-24.  With Penelope it literally takes three attempts to convince her of who he is.  The first two of these attempts aren’t even made by Odyssues at all but by Eurycleia and then Telemachus. 

Well, just to bring it back to a modern theme and something that we have to think about especially when it comes to reuniting with romantic partners.  The recognition with Telemachus was easy.  The recognition scene with the servants was exciting.  This recognition scene with Penelope is expressed with way more mixed emotions- which is extremely understandable.  When two people are brought together after a long time, there’s a sense that the external recognition is only a part.  I may recognize who you are on the outside- but will I recognize who you are on the inside?  Are you even the same person you were when I last saw you?  Am I the same person I was when you last saw me?  And of course, the answer is NO- of course neither one of you is.  Your literally not even the same person- molecules in your body have all completely changed- but of course that’s not what worries people- will we have a relationship anymore?  Those are not easy questions for anyone.  The psychological gap in a case of twenty years is enormous.   

Homer expresses every bit of that.  After Penelope is told Odysseus is home she responds with coldness and skepticism.  Homer says her heart was in turmoil.  Torn.  “Should she keep her distance, probe her husband?”  Let’s read the whole paragraph… 

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Notice the detail that he’s in rags.  Telemachus, like a child, fusses at his mother, but sweet dad comes to his wife’s defense (that would charm me).  Anyway, I think it’s cute how Homer creates this developing connection for these two.  In essence, they perform something of a mental fight, or a dance.  They engage each other intellectually, in some sense to see if they are still compatible.  Odysseus, up to this point in the story has never met his match.  He has outsmarted even goddess Circe, nevermind 100 plus suitors.  But Penelope stumps him.   

Athena does her part- back to clothes- she weaves for him – decking him out in fine clothes- he is now the recognized king- she makes him godlike, And yet- that is not enough.  Penelope outdoes Odysseus in scepticism and tests HIM with the instruction that his bed be prepared outside in the hall.  What we see here is the difference between outside recognition and inside recognition.  For the servants, seeing the scars were evidence enough that their master was home.  For Penelope, not even seeing her husband as king was enough.  What is special about the bed is that it contained a secret.  It was theirs.  She wanted to know if the bed, in his mind, was still their secret. 

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This is so ingenuous because not only does she prove that she is indeed Odysseus’ wife, but in essence she opens the door to allow them to engage in very intimate feelings at this juncture.  What matters isn’t really the recollection that the bed can’t move, but what that bed has meant to them regarding loyalty, fidelity, trust- these are the issues at stake in Penelope’s heart.  And in many ways we are really never told how she feels.  Her options in life have been so very limited.  The stress has been so very great.  Odysseus comes back as a savior, in one sense, but that is a fairy-tale way of thinking about life, and the text here seems much more honest as to the range of emotions that would be engaged as well as the uncertainty of the future not just with Ithaca, but between these two main characters.   

Of course, there’s a lot metaphorically we could say there, there’s a lot in regard to gender roles for sure, but not just that- what she feels, what he feels is way beyond even the two of them.  Reconstituting the oikos starts with Penelope and ends with Penelope.  Of course, this story is told from an ancient male perspective, with a ancient male audience in mind, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t a lot here to think about when we think about what constitutes a healthy oikos- a home- many of us want to build economic, social entities that will constitute a positive legacy- The ancient Greeks saw intellectual compatibility, mutual respect and the absence of secrets between partners central tenants to an lasting oikos. 

Of course, I agree, but I will add, although Penelope is clearly front and center to all of this, what we just read is still chapter 23.  There is one more relationship to be reconstituted and that is with Laertes, Odysseus father.   If there is to be a complete reconstruction of structure out of chaos, this relationship is not simply a p.s., but it’s central.   

Agreed- and of course, Laertes is a reminder, at least you must think that would be, that Odysseus gave up immortality with Calypso for what he is now recreating.  Also, Penelope’s entire schtick for keeping the suitors at bay was in weaving a funeral shroud for Laertes.  So, in a sense, and this would be an entire episode if we wanted to trace this theme, the meaning of death is in many ways an idea that has been in this story since the beginning.  We did visit hades, at one point.  But there is something conclusive about this father-son relationship.  It is finding resolution in this final recognition that harmony is restored.   

True- although I will say, I found this recognition scene slightly problematic.  Why does Odysseus have to lie to his father?  The first thought I had was that maybe he didn’t want to give his father a heart attack- thinking back to the recognition scene with the dog, Argos.  

Yeah- I don’t know- what I do know- and where we will end because we just don’t have time to go into anything else- is that the story ends with Odysseus and Laertes sharing an intimate moment, but a different kind of intimacy than Odysseus shared with Penelope.  We end with trees.  Trees are a tangible token of history.  They are identifying markers.  In this case, the orchard is well-tended.  Odysseus will now be a different kind of hero.  He will not be a warrior doing battle with the world, but a tender of gardens- a man who will live to see his children grow up, who will build, create, and structure a world that has once been filled with chaos.  The orchard of Laertes bares fruit.  There’s a little more to the story, Odysseus has to handle that issue with Poseidon, but in the end, I think this is the Greek vision of peace- of a satisfying life. It’s not a bad vision.  And the very end, Athena says, “Hold back ye men of Ithaca, back from brutal war! Break off- shed no more blood- make peace at once!”   I agree!! 

It is definitely not a bad vision.  They clearly were on to something.   Well, thank you for listening.  We hope you have enjoyed our race through the epic, The Odyssey.  We know there is a lot more to say, but hopefully, we left you with some food for thought as you sort through this complex tale that has mesmerized the world for millenia.  Please remember that if you enjoy our work, give us a good review on any of the podcast apps- apple, amazon, spotify, etc.  If you are an educator, visit our website for support materials. www.howtolovelitpodcast.com.  Also, feel free to connect with us on Instagram, fb, linked in or just plain email.  We’d love to hear from you. 

Peace out!! 

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