Sikh and You Shall Find

Sikhism is one of the newest "World Religions," only about 800 years old. Sikhism was developed in the context of Islam and Hinduism. It is a monotheistic religion based on the teachings of 10 gurus.

In this episode, we cover the history of the 10 gurus and the creation of the religion. From human gurus to book gurus we talk about the creation of the Guru Granth Sahib, the Sikh holy book. Did you know that the Guru Granth Sahib is considered to be a fully living and present guru?

Sikhism is a panentheistic religion that takes elements of Hinduism and mixes it with elements of Islam.

Sikhs worship in Gurdwaras and their gatherings are filled with hymn singing followed by a free vegetarian meal so that they can support all members of the community, not just their religious one. 

We also cover the 5 Ks of the Khalsa, a group within Sikhism of devout followers that hold themselves to a higher standard of beliefs and practices. 

Finally, Sikhism is becoming more popular amongst non-Indian groups and we chat about the future of this religion.

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Katie Dooley  00:12
Hi Preston 

Preston Meyer  00:13
Hi, Katie. Are you ready for the Holy Watermelon podcast?

Katie Dooley  00:17
You mean...

Both Hosts  00:18
The Holy Watermelon podcast! 

Katie Dooley  00:22
Yeah, I am. We have to say that same time. Actually, I was re-listening to our first episode, and we don't actually say and at the same time. 

Preston Meyer  00:29
Yeah? Oh, well.

Katie Dooley  00:31
We've really grown at podcasting.

Preston Meyer  00:35
I think that's a good thing.

Katie Dooley  00:36
I mean, I hope so after...

Preston Meyer  00:38
After the experience we've had over the last several months, we should definitely be improving.

Katie Dooley  00:43
This is episode 12, so we're 12 hours of audio.

Preston Meyer  00:49
12 hours of finished audio.

Katie Dooley  00:50
If you cut out all the noise we make. There's got to be another 12 hours out there.

Preston Meyer  01:01
And not counting the lost audio, a couple of episodes we've lost.

Katie Dooley  01:05
We don't talk about the lost audio. So I didn't know anything about our topic today.

Preston Meyer  01:14
Yeah, my knowledge is pretty limited too.

Katie Dooley  01:16
Not anymore. 

Preston Meyer  01:17
Not anymore. But going into preparing this. I was mostly uninformed, definitely under-informed.

Katie Dooley  01:27
Today we are talking about Sikhism. And as if you're a longtime listener, you know, I took religious studies in university and this was one religion we didn't cover which I'm very surprised by because there are a whole lot of Sikhs in the world. 25 million Sikhs around the world. And we didn't cover it. We covered Shinto, which would mean we'll do Shintoism next week, we covered Shintoism before we covered Sikhism, and that blows my mind.

Preston Meyer  01:54
Yeah, if I remember correctly in my intro, 102 course had Sikhism on the syllabus and I think we hit everything on the syllabus except Sikhism. Because you know, sometimes you overdo one thing, 'cause you think it's worth spending an extra day

Katie Dooley  02:13
Or everyone's dumb... The teachers like to "I got to get this figured out" 

Preston Meyer  02:16
There's loads of reasons you never stick to the syllabus and if I remember correctly, Sikhism was the thing that suffered because of that.

Katie Dooley  02:25
Well, let's fill those gaps for ourselves and for everyone else today, shall we?

Preston Meyer  02:30
Alright, so where do you want to start?

Katie Dooley  02:33
Well, I was very surprised by how new of a religion it is.

Preston Meyer  02:39
It's only like 500 years old. 

Katie Dooley  02:40
Only 500 years old, which is of the big religions, that would be the newest. I mean, there's iterations of religions that are newer, but like a big, brand new idea. Which I mean, we'll get into the how it's not quite brand new, but brand new ideas. Yeah, it's it's a little baby religion.

Preston Meyer  03:04
Right? Like most religions, as you said, it's not really new in every sense. It is born of other religions. But this one's not a break off of one religion, which is kind of cool.

Katie Dooley  03:20
It's, as I was saying, it's a little baby religion. It is the baby of Hinduism and Islam.

Preston Meyer  03:26
It's weird to see two things come together and make a baby.

Katie Dooley  03:29
Especially religions that are so vastly different. It's when you see Judaism turn into Christianity turn into Islam, or even now that we've covered Hinduism and Buddhism, you know, there are a lot of parallels in in the reincarnation and the lifecycle piece of Buddhism and Hinduism, but this is like totally new. But based off of both of them. I kind of dig that. I didn't know this Sikhism is monotheistic.

Preston Meyer  03:58
I mean, mostly. So I guess we remember we talked about those different models of theology, and the simple surface level monotheism is pretty correct.

Katie Dooley  04:11
Just like monotheism is pretty correct for Christianity.

Preston Meyer  04:16
It's more true for Sikhism than it is for Christianity, or for at least most parts of Christianity. Remember how we were talking about how Hinduism is very pluralistic, it's got a wide pantheon of gods that ends up focusing on three gods that ends up focusing on one god that ends up being pantheistic, instead of polytheistic when you dive in real deep. For Sikhism, it's got a similar... it's got a similar effect. Sikhism is pretty monotheistic on the surface, but it seems like All of the big thinkers of Sikhism as they dive into it show that it's a model of theology that we actually haven't addressed. Even when we spent a whole bunch of time looking all the different models of theology. Sikhism shows itself to be panentheistic ,which it's like pantheism. But panentheism adds an extra two letters and convolutes it and makes it more complicated. Instead of the idea of pantheism, like in Hinduism, where everything is God, eventually, when you break it down, since every living thing is a shard of that, Brahman, in Sikhism, panentheism is the idea that everything belongs to God in a, not just in an ownership way, but as like a physical manifestation kind of way. But that God is also greater than the sum of everything in existence, that everything is in God.

Katie Dooley  06:08
And God is in everything. 

Preston Meyer  06:12
I mean, it's not wrong, but it's not quite right. Theological models get super nuanced as you want to subdivide and subdivide further and so that's where we sit now with a slightly complicated panentheism in a relatively new religion.

Katie Dooley  06:33
Before we jump into the gurus, and how Sikhism started, I just while we're talking sort of number stuff, I just thought it was a really fun fact. So there's 25 million Sikhs around the world. Because it originated in the... 

Preston Meyer  06:51
One of the most densely populated nations on the planet.

Katie Dooley  06:54
India/Pakistan. They have the highest density of Sikhs in the world. But we're in Canada, and Canada has the second number, highest second highest amount of Sikhs per capita. Now, there's like a big asterisk on this because we don't really have a huge per capita. So the Indian stat I saw was about 2% of the population is Sikh. And when you have a population of a billion people, the people, Canada's it's about 1.5 Sikhs, as our population, we only have 30 million people.

Preston Meyer  07:28
And Sikhs makes up about half a million of us.

Katie Dooley  07:30
Yeah, no, and that's a huge number. But relatively speaking, it's still not a lot of people compared to the number, the volume of people in India, but I thought that was cool that Canada has the second largest per capita in the world. The neighborhood that I live in, actually has quite a dense Sikh population. Sikhism was founded by Guru Nanak in 1469, 

Preston Meyer  07:57
Guru being his title, not his first name, 

Katie Dooley  08:00
And he is the first of 10 successive gurus. And I made some notes on the most prominent of the 10. I'm not going to get into all 10 just the ones that really moved Sikhism forward.

Preston Meyer  08:11
Because not all gurus are created equal. 

Katie Dooley  08:13
No, it's true. So Nanak had a he was born in Lahore, Pakistan, and he disappeared and with some ascetics, and had his first mystical experience, and God told him as God frequently does, is that everyone's doing it wrong and I'm gonna tell you the right way to do it.

Preston Meyer  08:34
He had grown up a Hindu, and his best friend was a Muslim. They spent all their time together, it seemed, according to reports, and they were out together when Nanak disappeared into the river. 

Katie Dooley  08:50
The Indus River 

Preston Meyer  08:51
Yes, I think that's right.

Katie Dooley  08:53
I mean, you're up in the Indus region. 

Preston Meyer  08:55
Oh, yeah. That's likely and he was gone for days, and his best friend, and his family were super stressed out about it and then he showed up after having been he must have been pulled out of the water by somebody.

Katie Dooley  09:11
If I disappeared in a river for days. Would you be worried about me? 

Preston Meyer  09:15
We go actually several days without texting each other, so I might not know soon enough. But yeah, I'd be worried to know that you disappeared in a river.

Katie Dooley  09:23
Bryant just texts you and says she's in a river. All right, I'm sorry. They're worried but he comes back.

Preston Meyer  09:31
He does come back. And like you said with some big news,

Katie Dooley  09:35
Big news, he was given a mantra from God and this mantra is still included in Sikh morning devotions. And the manatra is, "There is one supreme being, the eternal reality, he is the creator without fear and devoid of enmity. He is a mortal never incarnated, self existent, known by grace through the Guru, the Eternal One from the beginning through all time present now the everlasting reality", that's what he was told by God, and that there is no Hindu and no Muslim. Surprise, it's this third one Sikhism.

Preston Meyer  10:09
So basically, he want everybody to know that both of these models of theology and the actions that come from them, were not divinely accepted or approved or helpful.

Katie Dooley  10:24
My note literally says, exactly, how every other religions starts.

Preston Meyer  10:29
I mean, that's, that is the memo that pretty much every religious founder comes out with. Y'all are doing it wrong.

Katie Dooley  10:36
Jesus got it. Muhammad got it. Nanak got it. Buddha got it. You're doing it wrong. Here's the right way.

Preston Meyer  10:45
So, we actually have kind of a start date for Sikhism. That Nanak formally organized a commune in 1526, so less than 500 years ago.

Katie Dooley  11:02
We should have an anniversary party.

Preston Meyer  11:04
I don't think we'd be the only ones doing so. I think that's a great idea. Because it's kind of a big deal. And so this commune he started so that people could come to him, and he would teach them. And so he was the guru. And his disciples were called Sikhs, which of course is the Punjabi word for disciple or student.

Katie Dooley  11:26
I'll just mention here that this we already start to see, like I said, the baby between Hinduism and Islam, where we use a term like guru, which is used in Hinduism, but it's monotheistic, like Islam, so already had already at the very start of it, it's this little marriage of the two.

Preston Meyer  11:44
Well, when you live in India/Pakistan region, the subcontinent has many languages. And most of actually, not most, about half of them are closely related. So you're going to have a lot of overlap in labels. In your common religious language, you're going to use some of the same words.

Katie Dooley  12:06
I've noted down four other gurus. So the second, fourth, ninth, and tenth Guru, I listed as noteworthy not that the others didn't do anything, but like 

Preston Meyer  12:16
These ones are special 

Katie Dooley  12:17
These ones are extra special! So the second guru was Guru Angad. And he is known for standardizing the hymns and starting Sikh scripture and this book that he started gets super important later on.

Preston Meyer  12:34
And his job was not an easy one. As I was looking into this, he did exactly what you said he was gathering and and sharing the hymns. And he didn't actually start a standardization process, until he found out that somebody else who claimed that he ought to be the guru was also spreading hymns. And so the Guru, the proper recognized guru, actually put a lot of work in to gather from all these other people who had reliably sourced hymns from the Nanak and compiled them into one solid text. And he found a great deal of frustration in that process, but he put a lot of work into it. And he did do some editing. But the book is what it is.

Katie Dooley  13:28
I was just going to ask if the book is considered divine, but I'm about to answer my own question. Nevermind, I forgot. Guru number four was Guru Arjan. He is the first martyred Sikh so he was put to death by the Mughal emperor Jigga Jahangir? Who was intolerant of this newer, newer religion. Arjan supervise the compilation of the Sikh holy texts, the Adi Granth, which will eventually I kind of love this eventually be known as the Guru Granth Sahib, which I can't wait to talk about that fun fact.  Is there anything you want to add about number four?

Preston Meyer  14:18
No, I got nothing.

Katie Dooley  14:21
Number nine, we're skipping a whole bunch. So there's 10 total, we're going from four to nine. Number nine was Guru Tegh Bahadur, and he was also martyred by the person who built the Taj Mahal. So that was Shah Jahan, and he was he was martyred for refusing to convert to Islam.

Preston Meyer  14:42
There's a little bit of that in history.

Katie Dooley  14:44
I mean, I didn't dig into it too much, but I'm pretty sure Sikh and Muslims.

Preston Meyer  14:50
There's a lot of direct conflict between the two.

Katie Dooley  14:53
Maybe we'll do another episode just on that. Number 10 is Guru Gobind Singh, and he was the last human guru. And he was also murdered, he was assassinated, and instead of declaring a new guru, which was the traditions, when one dies, they pick a new one. To stop the, I think it was to stop the bloodshed to be honest, he declared the book, the next guru.

Preston Meyer  15:26
It's really hard to kill a book, especially when at this point, it's been published and distributed.

Katie Dooley  15:33
And from my understanding, it's like Transubstantiation in Christianity where the Eucharist is literally the body and blood of Christ. Like this is literally a living breathing guru, but it's..

Preston Meyer  15:46
And doesn't breathe.

Katie Dooley  15:49
It's a living, breathing guru. So the Adi Granth becomes Guru Granth Sahib

Preston Meyer  16:00
I think it's interesting that from a anthropological point of view, the Guru's absolutely fill the role of prophets that we see in other religions. But internally, there's actually a deliberate differentiation. The gurus are teachers, and though they can receive revelations, and they certainly offer them, they are not called prophets.

Katie Dooley  16:25
Guru means teacher, so is it more of a distilling and disseminating of information?

Preston Meyer  16:32
I think that's the primary difference.

Katie Dooley  16:36
I mean, it's very nuanced at this point when you're dealing with God, but it's almost like an interpretation, instead of just speaking the revelation in my... me trying to reconcile it in my own brain. Yeah, that fair?

Preston Meyer  16:50
I think that's what the difference is. And so, as we mentioned before, it exists in a world where it's competing with Hinduism and Islam, and specifically denouncing both of them outright, kind of like how the Church of England outright denounces the Church of Rome as being awful and wrong.

Katie Dooley  17:14
Literally made up so Henry needs to divorce his wife, Catholics are wrong.

Preston Meyer  17:19
Well, it's a lot easier to validate your position as a rebellious church, when you say that the people I'm rebelling against were wrong, before I started this fight. That's literally how all rebellions go is we're tired of this thing that we don't agree with.

Katie Dooley  17:36
We didn't start the fire. I don't know.  I don't know how to segue out of this. Well, Preston, you did a lot of research on their actual beliefs. So I'll let you

Preston Meyer  17:52
I did a little bit, you did a bunch, too. 

Katie Dooley  17:54
I really didn't flesh it out, well soo.. that was your job. 'Cause I'm bad at this part.

Preston Meyer  18:02
So the idea of God in Sikhism is full of similarities to both the God of Abraham as recognized in the Islamic faith, and the Brahman of the Hindu faith that God, neither begat nor is he begotten, but also is fully in corporal, but exists in all things, which, of course, gets complicated. And there's more and more Christians who have adopted this idea, as we've talked about, in our Hinduism episode of God being greater than the sum of the universe, which is super complicated. And the word that you'll want to look up is panentheism.  Yes, Pan, P-A-N-E-N-theism.

Katie Dooley  19:03
I thought you're talking about the Hunger Games Panem. I'm kidding.

Preston Meyer  19:09
So it's basically All-in-God-ism. And it's a specific, not totally unique, but not widespread, universally agreed upon sub set of pantheism, I think, would be a way to classify that. And it's a way to motivate a respect for literally every living thing, which is not a bad thing. There's a good handful of titles for God as most religions have. Sikhs will use titles like Ik Onkar, which means one God, you have words like Waheguru, the wondrous Lord or wonderous leader or master, wonderous teacher, so, guru being part of that title is what makes it kind of a tricky word. But very often it's translated as wondrous Lord. Even though I mentioned before that there's a respect for all living things being centered in India, you can't really ignore the caste system. And so, most Sikhs aren't terribly concerned with it as far as I've observed. I have a Sikh friend and though he's, he has mentioned it, it's not really a big deal for most Sikhs, by the looks of it.

Katie Dooley  20:35
Yeah, one thing that I was reading about Sikhism is that they're actually really big on the quality of men and women. I didn't say anything on the caste system specifically but but that in their system...

Preston Meyer  20:46
It's a lot less important to Sikhs than it is to Hindus, that's for sure. 

Katie Dooley  20:49
You know what, I don't know why I didn't do this before I knew it was an episode I read the Bhagavad Gita. It's like a two hour audiobook highly recommend and there's one point that's like, you would hate to come back as a woman like, excuse me?

Preston Meyer  21:08
That's wonderful. What a great thing to say out loud.

Katie Dooley  21:11
Yeah, so anyway, we'll get to. We'll get to the Khalsa later, but you can be a female member of that group. They don't. They don't care.

Preston Meyer  21:29
Khalsa? Khalsa, I'm pretty sure that's an L.

Katie Dooley  21:35
We'll get to the Khalsa later but you can be a female member of the Khalsa.

Preston Meyer  21:40
Oh, karma is still a thing.

Katie Dooley  21:41
Still a thing? That's interesting to me. I'm curious how they reconcile that with monotheism because it feels like a very polytheistic idea.

Preston Meyer  21:52
I don't think... Well, so the way we talked about karma before a couple episodes ago and our Hinduism discussion. So Karma is a word that basically means action and so your actions, they may be motivated by the number of gods in your life. This is not... that your actions are still your actions, and there are consequences for your actions. So karma is still a thing and so this is an element that definitely came over from that Hinduism idea. Or, at the very least, by living in India, this became part of the discussion. Reincarnation is part of the deal, which is easy enough to follow from our previous discussions. And the goal, of course, is still to escape. But they use a different word, probably, honestly, just a dialectical issue. The word is mukti instead of moksha. It sounds an awful lot like the same word in a different dialect.

Katie Dooley  23:03
They just changed a little bit. For copyright reasons. I'm trying to think of, like Cheetos versus Cheezies Make it a Z instead of a -To and they won't come after you.

Preston Meyer  23:22
And the interesting thing that I don't remember seeing so much in the Hinduism discussion, but definitely come up in our Buddhist discussion that life is suffering, life is hell. For Sikhs, hell is life on Earth, you want to escape that. So the goal of course, is to eventually achieve mukti and escape the cycle of suffering.

Katie Dooley  23:56
Well, let's talk about Maya and the Five Thieves. Maya is a term that appears in Sikh scripture and it's mean, like infatuation or desire for things that you shouldn't have, like worldly things. That's what Maya is. There's similar concepts. I mean, it I guess, would be like sin, you know, wanting things that you shouldn't want, essentially.

Preston Meyer  24:25
Okay. And so what are these thieves

Katie Dooley  24:27
The five thieves... very similar. Lust, anger, greed, attachment, and pride.

Preston Meyer  24:37
All right, so it's kind of like the seven deadly sins, but there's fewer of them.

Katie Dooley  24:41
Yeah, you can be lazy and you can eat a lot. I think that's the only two sloth and gluttony.

Preston Meyer  24:47
Yeah, sloth and gluttony are gone. Attachments, not one of the seven so there's another one that's missing to be replaced here by attachment. Do I need to pull up a list what the seven deadly sins are because I can't remember all of them right now.

Katie Dooley  25:01
I mean, I don't sin so...

Preston Meyer  25:04
Seven Deadly Sins, Google power! All right, so the seven deadly sins are pride, greed. Lust is on there. Envy, envy is the one we're missing. 

Katie Dooley  25:23
I think attachment sort of almost touches on that, right? 

Preston Meyer  25:27
It's definitely an a, an associated principle.

Katie Dooley  25:31
Think of what you're envious of people for it's because you have an attachment, you want something that they have, there's an attachment piece to worldly objects there.

Preston Meyer  25:39
So now I'm thinking of the Jedi. The Jedi eschew attachment.

Katie Dooley  25:43
Yeah. Are Sikhs just Jedi? 

Preston Meyer  25:46
You know what as we look through the list of how things go from this point forward, we'll see a few more parallels.

Katie Dooley  25:55
I actually really like the Sikh practices, which we'll get into in a minute. But yes, so these five things lust, anger, greed, attachment, pride, not to be confused with the seven deadly sins, although very similar, will stop you from reaching this Mukti reincarnation.

Preston Meyer  26:12
Or if you want to have a unapproved approach to Sikh practice, you can continually indulge in these things to ensure another resurrection, or reincarnation. If you don't want to leave this earth, if you don't want to achieve Mukti, if that's the way you want to live... So there's another handy...

Katie Dooley  26:46
I love numbers in your beliefs!  Make it easy for me. 

Preston Meyer  26:52
So what are the three pillars?  Pretty standard principle common among most religious practices and easy to accept in a neighbor, I think.

Katie Dooley  26:53
Three Pillars not to be confused with the Five pillars of Islam. He looked at Christianity Seven Deadly sins and the Five Pillars of Islam. He's like, we can shorten this. There are three pillars to Sikhism Naam Japo, which is meditation, the chanting of God's name and reflecting on God. Just God time prayer would be a... Yep, the next one is Kirat Karni. It's kind of like Dharma, kind of like Hindu Dharma, but not quite Hindu Dharma. It's about doing honest work and making a living, contributing to society. There's nothing in there, like in Hindu Dharma, where it's like accepting your circumstances. It's just contributing kind of being a good neighbour,

Preston Meyer  27:51
Being a good member of your community. That's a really great way of saying don't be a dick because you're taking the positive language of be a not-dick.

Katie Dooley  28:00
Be a not dick. I like that. New t-shirt idea. And the third pillar like how many are we on is Vand Chakna. And this is donation, giving back to that community that you're a part of, in the form of food or money, monetary donations, and I, in my research, I might have to say the Sikhs might be the best at this. And I know part of that is the cultural makeup of where we live, and proportions of people but I'm gonna have a story to share later, when we started talking about the Gurdwara. I think Sikhs do this very well in the sense that they give to the greater community whereas a lot of religious groups just give to their religious community.

Preston Meyer  28:53
If you don't come to our church, we won't feed you. 

Katie Dooley  28:55
Yeah, you get all these gift gifting perks, giving perks if you're in the community but if you're outside the community might not so yeah, anyway, that's those are the three pillars. Let's come back to turbans. This I actually was the part I had a lot of fun researching was like the day to day practices of Sikhs this is where I will usually leave the historical stuff for Preston because I like the nitty gritty what does it look like if you're a Sikh human? So Sikhs pray three times a day again looked at Islam and was like that's too much.

Preston Meyer  29:33
Five times is hard, even hour is too many just do three, man.

Katie Dooley  29:38
So morning when they wake up sunset, and before they go to bed. Now, as a Canadian who lives pretty far north. I feel like that can be hard because sometimes you go to bed before sunset.

Preston Meyer  29:51
That's only in the summer, and honestyl me, almost never.

Katie Dooley  29:55
If you're Katie frequently. 

Preston Meyer  29:57
I very seldom go to bed before sunset. Especially not in winter when the sun goes down at 3:30.

Katie Dooley  30:06
But when it goes down to 11:30 yeah I go to bed before

Preston Meyer  30:09
In the summertime up until midnight almost every night anyway.

Katie Dooley  30:14
And hymns are a large part of the prayer process, getting back on track. Hymns are a big part of the prayer tradition for Sikhs.

Preston Meyer  30:26
So instead of a regular church service, like you're used to seeing and I don't know, like mass or your evangelical stand up and scream at each other thing.

Katie Dooley  30:34
And Imams write sermons are equivalent of I don't know if they call them sermons but...

Preston Meyer  30:40
I imagine in mostly English communities, that would be the word that they learn for English for what's going on there. Sikhs have Gurdwaras that are open pretty much all the time, right?

Katie Dooley  30:53
Yes. So there's no. So from my understanding and searching local gurdwaras is... it doesn't matter what day it is. It's not like in Christian where it is Sunday, because that was the day he rose. They'll just like pick it and stick with it. But there's no significant meaning. I think I'm imagining like, probably not COVID times and even denser Sikh populations, they'd be open all the time. I think they the one I looked at was Thursday, and that's probably just for routine in people's lives. But yes.

Preston Meyer  31:27
Yeah, there's plenty of Christians who in Dubai are willing to meet on Friday, because that's when everyone else is doing their Masjid meetings. So it's like, yeah, this is what makes sense. Instead of Sunday, so it's kind of cool.

Katie Dooley  31:42
The service is called a Kirtan and it's communal singing so like I said, hymns, song is very important. In Sikhism you're gonna sing.

Preston Meyer  31:56
So not terribly alien to the popular traditions around here.

Katie Dooley  32:00
No, but I think there isn't. I don't I mean, I have a band and we should go. But I don't think there's a speaking portion. I think it's all this communal I think it's cool. Unless I'm the one saying, don't come back. Go to the kitchen. Run away.

Preston Meyer  32:18
We have something else we'd rather you do. That's fine, though. We've mentioned Khalsa earlier.

Katie Dooley  32:27
No you forgot a part that's really important and exciting to me the food part! I gotta mention, becausde it's important to me apparently. After a Sikh service, there is a communal meal served in a kitchen or a Langer is the term for it. And I love it. So anyone can go after service and you can eat for free. And they purposely make the meal vegetarian, not because they're vegetarians, but because then any other religious group can come and eat. So if you're a Jewish person, and you're hungry, you can go to a Gurdwarea nd eat. If you're a Muslim, and you're starving, you can go and eat there. So anyone. And that's the point too. It's like this idea of a soup kitchen that if you're hungry, you can come and eat here and not have to worry about it, which I thought was super cool.

Preston Meyer  33:26
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense to coming from the intersection of Hindu and Islamic traditions. You've got a lot of dietary restrictions. And they're not... they don't overlap much at all, really?

Katie Dooley  33:41
No. Beef, pork, dairy, any of any of it.

Preston Meyer  33:45
I mean, most Hindus don't eat a lot of meat, or much at all, but some do. And Muslims have very strict rules on a lot of the food that they can eat

Katie Dooley  33:59
And Jewish people with pork and dairy mixing, or meat and dairy mixing and then not eating pork at all.

Preston Meyer  34:05
Just keeping a vegetarian is the simple answer. 

Katie Dooley  34:09
And this is where the story I alluded to, are you on Nextdoor?

Preston Meyer  34:14
I mean, barely, but yeah.

Katie Dooley  34:17
If you don't know what Nextdoor is, it is a social networking app that is sorted by your geographical region. So I could post that I need my sidewalk shoveled and everyone in my neighborhood would be notified and then people nearby could contact me as an example. And I saw a post and I don't want to shame anyone. But it was basically like, he hard financial times and he was like, I need food, cigarettes and weed. And basically everyone who commented on it was like cigarettes and weed like you're kinda pushing it... but again, I'm not here to judge anyway, and it was a gentleman with a South Asian name. And he commented and said "Yep, I'm not going to do the cigarettes or weed but I will bring you food" and like a kept reading the thread and sounds like he followed through and delivered him food and, and he this gentleman commented like "Yep, he actually he was in dire straits", he needed food so you know, stop giving him a hard time about the weed and cigarettes. And then the guy who receivedm commented was very grateful "Thank you so much. I want to learn more about you and your culture and your community". And the guy commented, he said, "Yep, Sikhs are all about, you know, giving to our community and helping people when they need them". So it was nice to see that after doing all this research on the Gurdwara, and being able to, you know, come and grab a free meal, and that they actually, like you said, like, some random-ass stranger being like, I need weed and food. And he was like, "Yep, I'm not gonna judge you for" when literally, including myself, everyone was like, "Really, you're asking for cigarettes and weed with your food?" He's like, "No, I'm not gonna judge. I'm not going to help you with that part. But I will come and bring you food". And he did. And I was like, you know, little, little hope in the world. So that's my happy Sikh story of the week.

Preston Meyer  36:07
I like it. All right. So, there is a subset of Sikhism. These are people who are initiated into a deeper part of the tradition. And the word for this extra-committed group within the larger group is the Khalsa. And they're actually super cool. I did some deep, deep digging into what goes on, and I think it's really pretty nifty. These people are a lot more likely to look like your stereotypical Sikhs.

Katie Dooley  36:46
I think that's where this comes from as the kalsa. But you don't need to so we'll get more into it. But like Turbans are worn by the Khalsa, but you don't need to be in the Khalsa to wear a turban, but everyone in the Khalsa will wear a turban.

Preston Meyer  37:00
Almost without exception, but it's actually not a strict requirement. I mean, it's generally expected for sure, but it's not a strict requirement. Depending on who you talk to, I guess I'm sure if your parents are like, really into it, they'd get mad at you for not wearing a turban to cover your long hair. But when it's a little bit more orthodox, you've got an extra set of rules, and there's some prerequisites for the initiation ceremony. You are specifically forbidden from wearing any jewelry or mark associated with any other faith or God. Like, if you're walking in with a crucifix, you're gonna be turned away. If you got a rosary tattoo on your foot, you will be turned away

Katie Dooley  37:50
Even if you've converted to Sikhism?

Preston Meyer  37:52
Yeah, according to what I read, yes, if you have any tattoo, that is a permanent mark of any other faith, you won't be admitted to the Khalsa initiation ceremony. Conversion obviously is a thing that is enjoyed by every faith that if you want to join my faith, that's cool. That's a celebrated thing. But there's rules for the Khalsa and apparently that's one of them. And you also can't go through the ceremony if you have piercings of any kind. So like, nah, I'm just gonna stop I don't need to.. Y'all know what I'm saying? Piercings of any kind, no good. I don't know why I felt the need to explain for you. Extra graphic or something? I don't know what I was thinking there. I don't need to explain what a piercing is. 

Katie Dooley  38:50
No. If you do not know what a piercing is it please drop us a line on our Discord.

Preston Meyer  38:56
Or you know, feel free to Google it. We would love to have you and everybody join us on Discord and we can have productive, healthy conversations about religion and have a lot of fun. And sure and the nature of piercings. We also share some great memes. I know that everybody loves memes. If you don't appreciate memes you are an alien to me. I don't know. Anyway, but the most visible things we want to get into for how to identify the Khalsa. You've got the five Ks.

Katie Dooley  39:34
Don't you think Katie should go through the five K's?

Preston Meyer  39:36
I think so. I don't want to monopolize all this time. But you know what? Remember how we cut down all these lists. Instead of seven deadly sins. We had the five things that I don't know why I can't remember the word right now. And then we took the five pillars kind of down the three pillars. I'm really glad it's five K's

Katie Dooley  39:59
Alright. So, K number one is the Kesh. This is uncut hair and beard, forming the lion's mane and we'll get into the significance of the lion later. Do want jump into that now? And this is why the last name Singh is so popular because all men in the Khalsa were encouraged to take the last name Singh. And then when those 25 million how many million? 25 million Sikhs around the world

Preston Meyer  40:15
I want to jump into it right now. I think it's really cool. The fella who started the Khalsa was the 10th Guru Gobind Singh. His name was Singh, and so Singh means lion. And so for all the men who become part of this group of Khalsa they're meant to grow out their hair and never ever cut it ever again. And same goes with their beard, causing this huge frame of hair that is meant to resemble in their tradition, the lion. It becomes a becomes a very... 

Katie Dooley  41:21
Common last name. So that's number one. And I don't I I'm gonna jump in here and women were encouraged to take the last name Kaur K-A-U-R, Kaur which means Princess, that would be for Khalsa women as well. I'm diverting from the five Ks. I just wanted to make sure I pointed out that for the women as well. Number two is the Kangha which is the wooden comb worn in this hair that doesn't get cut that reminds you to be clean and tidy and should be used twice a day. Number three is the Kirpan, which is a steel sword or dagger. And it is your oath to immediately defend all those in danger. So I think present day Khalsa definitely do carry a small knife all the time, but it's definitely not like a big old Broadsword.

Preston Meyer  42:14
Yeah, you see a lot fewer swords today. But typically these people are armed. Yeah, they will carry a knife, and I'm sure loads of people are threatened by the idea of a muscular brown man being armed at all times. But you see a 300 pound white dude with cowboy boots and a gun in his pocket. I'm intimidated by that more.

Katie Dooley  42:42
Even some of my guy friends like, I've had, I've like needed stuff done. And they'll just like whip out this massive knife and like "I'm just carrying it"

Preston Meyer  42:51
There was years where I would always have a pocket knife with me. But I also used it on a regular basis. It hasn't been the case for a while, so I don't carry a knife with me anymore.

Katie Dooley  43:03
This friend, I think he was a contractor. But like, I forget what I had him over for and just like without this massive knife, and I was like, Okay, I mean, you're obviously but like, my point is that if you're worried about a Sikh being armed, all of your friends are armed with a knife probably.

Preston Meyer  43:19
Probably, I've really liked that it's more about being prepared than it is about being threatening. And we'll get into that a little bit more as we look at some further points.

Katie Dooley  43:34
The number in the fourth K is the Kara or a steel ring or bracelet worn on the right wrist. It is the link in the community chain and it is a reminder to be mindful of what they are doing with their hands. Oh my.

Preston Meyer  43:51
Yeah. It's that simple.

Katie Dooley  43:54
Is it really as simple as my 12 year old boy brain?

Preston Meyer  43:58
Maybe? I mean, that's part of it.

Katie Dooley  44:01
Okay. All right. Number five is the Kach. K-A-C-H-H, Shorts with a drawstring belts. This is to remind one to avoid lust one of the five thieves and always be prepared to fight against attackers. Yeah, want to explain that one to me.

Preston Meyer  44:24
So just like the Kirpan, the Sikhs, at least earlier in their history, a little bit more visible than where we are in the world in history. There's the need to be vigilant and to be ready to stand up and defend somebody and need at all times. And so the Kachh the shorts are worn all the time. A lot of men will bathe in them and then put on dry ones after the bath. Changing them off one leg at a time. Like un-leg one. Put on new shorts on that leg. And then then take the wet ones off the second leg and then pull them back up.

Katie Dooley  45:02
That seems more hindering if you had to run in a fight right away.

Preston Meyer  45:06
It does. Logistically, it's tricky. But it's

Katie Dooley  45:13
I understand the concept of always wearing them.

Preston Meyer  45:15
Yeah, it's a commitment to the article of clothing rather than the principle it embodies the way I see it.

Katie Dooley  45:21
Because I totally get the you don't want to be caught naked in a bath and then have to fight for someone's life. But having two pairs of pants on the same time is worse than being naked. To fight off for someone's life.

Preston Meyer  45:34
I think you're right

Katie Dooley  45:34
Actually just two pairs of pants on at the same time period.

Preston Meyer  45:41
No, just imagine a dude walking around with two pairs of jeans but not overlapping.

Katie Dooley  45:46
I'm gonna go try this later today. When you leave. I have two pairs of leggings just like the ones I'm wearing. And I'm gonna take one off

Preston Meyer  45:56
Would be a fun way to surprise Bryant

Katie Dooley  45:58
Oh, just two legs wibbling between two pant legs with wibbling between my legs.

Preston Meyer  46:07
So, though I appreciate the Kachh 100% That particular practice does seem a little tricky.

Katie Dooley  46:16
Hopefully you're not having to fight so often that it becomes an actual logistical problem.

Preston Meyer  46:22
Right. And that that's one of the advantages, I guess is that usually that's not a real life problem. So those are the five Ks and they may be listed in different orders depending on who you ask. But there's also bonus points.

Katie Dooley  46:36
You have so many bonus points. I can't wait to hear them all.

Preston Meyer  46:40
I love them, actually. So there are additional articles of clothing for the Khalsa panj kapare or panj kapre or panj kapare. I'm going to admit I have no idea how to say that for sure.

Katie Dooley  46:51
Again, as scholars, we've only read the words

Preston Meyer  46:56
Yeah, so that there is more clothing that is associated with Sikhs who are ready to go out into battle. So, dastar is the word for turban. Even though I think turban is an Arabic word or derived from an Arabic word. The Indian dastar is basically the it is the same thing. And then there's the Sikh chola, which is specifically military garments, which are actually kind of cool to look at. Worth googling. You gotta be careful though, when you look for chola include the word seek otherwise, you're just gonna get a bunch of pictures of Spanish girls.

Katie Dooley  47:38
I will I'll pop a picture of Sikh chola in our Discord.

Preston Meyer  47:41
Do it. Alright. There's also a hazooria. Looking at the description of the hazooria did not help me at all the entire time, I was imagining a little grasping claw like you can buy Dollarama. But the description that I found was not nearly as helpful as I would have liked. I had to Google image search hazooria, and found out that it's basically a fancy napkin, its function is to keep your hands clean. And also to keep you humble, though, you'll find a lot of people that's mutually exclusive, at least among white folks, that's a problem we have. But it's a thing that if you want to pick a thing up off the ground, you don't want to get your hands dirty. When you do this. You would have this hazooria napkin type thing that you pick it up with and keep your fingers clean. Yes. Not even crazy. In fact, yeah... Yeah, you're wording there was not great. I understand what you're saying. It's perfectly reasonable. In fact, most of what we see in Sikhism and most religions, most things are completely reasonable. I think objectively speaking, there's usually something in most faiths that is far outside reasonable. But most of the things need to be acceptable to the everyday person.

Katie Dooley  49:13
Or they don't last very long.

Preston Meyer  49:15
No, I think the most reasonable things. 

Katie Dooley  49:17

That's what I mean is they're not reasonable...

Preston Meyer  49:19
Yes, alright, and then there's more of these bonus points for the Khalsa. There is the kamar kasa, which is a belt to hold weapons, because some people may be offended by this idea. But the fully committed Khalsas typically have more than just the kirpan. There was a time where there was a list of five things that a truly prepared Khalsa would be armed with. You've got the Chakram which if you've played say, Mortal Kombat, you might know what a Chakram is it's a round blade, like a Frisbee round, but it's hollow in the middle, so that you can wear it around your turban. It serves to protect your head and your hair and your turban from sword strikes. So it's fully steel, strong, but it's also sharp, probably not all the way around so that you've got something to grip with. If you wanted to hit somebody with it, like in Mortal Kombat, or SoulCalibur. When you see a Chakram, there's usually a handle. 'Course in a lot of popular media in the last 15-20 years, you'll see Chakrams with handles in the middle or their half circles with a handle through them. These are completely useless to wear on your head. Or you tied your turban in a way that accommodates this weird shaped Chakram. But for the most part, they were round things with a sharp blade on the outside, they would protect your head and could be used as handheld weapons, in theory. Though, probably not on the regular, because you would want to keep that on your head for combat. There was also the katar which is a small push dagger a lot smaller than your kirpan. And it's not so slashy slashy, It's thrusting weapon 

Katie Dooley  50:36
Pokey-poke. 

Preston Meyer  51:25
There was also the peshkars, which is a narrow knife, usually pretty long, but narrow. So you can force it

Katie Dooley  51:34
Like a hairpin sort of. There's a name for a pointy stick. 

Preston Meyer  51:41
Yeah, that's, that's, I guess that's not unfair. It's designed to be able to pop through chainmail. Which, I mean, these people are prepared for all of the combat of the world 500 years ago. And then my favorite, there was a new addition to the list, which made it a list of five a little while ago that has since been outright banned by the Indian government for for reasons that may become clear when I tell you what this fifth item is, 

Katie Dooley  52:13
What is oh my god, tell me

Preston Meyer  52:14
It's a pistol. The fifth weapon in this panshastar is usually a match lock pistol or a six shooter. We're talking back in the good old days. If you're carrying a nine millimeter with you sure, fine. But I feel like most people today feel pretty similar to the way the Indian government did when they said hey, maybe don't. And when they made this ban, it would have been really easy to accept the rule, but also would have been easy to rebel against it. It did look a lot like a specific anti-religious movement law. But there was enough people who are like, yeah, we need to follow the laws of the land. So they were willing to cut the firearm from their list of weapons 

Katie Dooley  52:14
To have a whole bunch of knives. 

Preston Meyer  52:23
I mean, so many, so many blades, which makes a guy look badass.

Katie Dooley  53:23
I would be curious what percentage of Sikhs are part of the Khalsa. I don't look into anything on that. But I'm sure a portion of the Canadian population of Sikhs are part of the Khalsa, but I've never seen anyone with a chakram. I feel like that one is also...

Preston Meyer  53:42
It's not one of the five K's. These are just bonus points. I did preface that whole list of bonus points with that 

Katie Dooley  53:51
So not every Khalsa will be fully arm right. 

Preston Meyer  53:55
In fact, for day to day, I think very few Khalsa are. So the turban is one of those bonus points, that if you're going to keep your hair clean, it's a lot easier if it's covered. And so I even though it's a bonus point, almost everybody who goes with their hair on cut is wearing a turban.  And again, you just because you go with uncut hair does not make you part of the kalsa. So there is some you know, I don't want to say "regular Sikh" sounds so bad. Some will be clean shaven and some will not cut their hair. And again, that can be men, men or women. So sometimes you'll see female Sikhs with turbans and I have a friend. I miss seeing him he's spending a whole lot of time outside the city. And then pandemic makes it hard to socialize on a face to face basis. But super cool guy and he does where the shorts, but doesn't wear a turban. He keeps his hair short. So, the five K's aren't exclusive to the Khalsa, but they're obviously expected by the Khalsa

Katie Dooley  55:16
So they become a part of the Khalsa ,there is an initiation ceremony it's kind of similar to a baptism like we would see in Christianity and new members drink amrit which is a sweetened water.

Preston Meyer  55:30
It's got nectar in it 

Katie Dooley  55:32
And the take on additional rules in terms of doctrine and personal conduct that the average Sikh doesn't need to follow you know, the five Ks being part of that.

Preston Meyer  55:44
For sure. We already talked about how Gobind Singh made requests of people to use new last names Singh meaning lion, Kaur meaning princess.

Katie Dooley  55:58
Just lower down in our notes. I'm gonna throw it out because it's a good word. So the term keshdhari referring to kesh the uncut hair. Keshdhari means hair bearing. You can be a keshdhari and not part of the Khalsa. But that's just a cool term to play in Scrabble. You sit at Christmas with your family be like do you know what a keshdhari? Like no, tell us. And then this is really great podcasts that I listened to you should listen to it too

Preston Meyer  56:29
Right? It's great way to work our podcast into your holiday time with your family. All right. So in North America, there is a growing number of Sikhs. In fact, there's a growing movement of non-Indian Sikhs. The Sikh Dharma International is a group that was founded about 50 years ago down in the southern states, not the crazy south which is a population where Sikhs would not feel welcome. But in California and New Mexico, there's actually a growing population of people of multinational descent, and a very diverse place where most religions are accepted. I think that's why Scientology is headquartered there. More or less ish. Okay. They're not headquartered there. They just have a lot of power there. That makes sense. Scientology is a different day. But anyway, the Sikh, Dharma International is based in Los Angeles and California and New Mexico, just said them, and they escaped my mind, but I brought them back. They also typically wear white robes. And so they're called White Sikhs by a lot of folks, not just because they've got white skin, but they augment this by having white robes. But yeah, they are mostly white. So there's that growing movement here in North America, and men and women wear turbans, which is, I don't think standard I think the turban is mostly for men and women will cover their hair, but not in a turban. As far as I've seen outside of the white Sikh group.

Katie Dooley  58:14
I've never seen...

Preston Meyer  58:17
A woman with a turban? 

Katie Dooley  58:18

No, I've seen a woman with a turban. I've never seen a female Sikh cover her hair in a way not a turban. Because they don't wear scarves don't wear hijabs. I either see them just own their long hair or wear a turban.

Preston Meyer  58:33
Okay. I guess we're seeing different things. And that's okay, because we don't live in the same part of town. Anyway, that's kind of cool. I like that. All right. And a downside to being a Sikh in North America, is that for the last 20 years, maybe longer, but it's become more of a problem in the last 20 years is there's a lot of anti-Islamic. I wrote different words in my notes, but anti-Islamic people.

Katie Dooley  59:05
You wrote psychos! 

Preston Meyer  59:08
I did. 

Katie Dooley  59:09
And I don't disagree

Preston Meyer  59:10
Now that it's been recorded. Yeah. These people are extremely Islamophobic and they've decided to start attacking Sikhs, because they can't tell the difference. Even though there's not a lot of Muslims wearing turbans around here. 

Katie Dooley  59:28
No, there's no reason for them to wear a turban. And I mean, first of all, it shouldn't matter. Let's just clear that up is that it shouldn't matter. 

Preston Meyer  59:37
Well, one of the big number one offense that inspires all of this is the Twin Tower attacks on September 11, 2001. I mean, these people came from a different part of the world. They look different from each other. And the people who did the attacks are dead. Attacking people who happen to share some philosophical on religious traditions, makes no sense at all. It's not okay. I let alone associating completely separate people. 

Katie Dooley  1:00:09
I this is not a political podcast, but in Canada, our New Democratic Party are quite left wing party leader Jagmeet Singh. He is a Sikh. And he he put it really well once, which is why I bring it up not to get political. But he had received some anti-Muslim, anti-Islamic phobic comments. And somebody asked him, you know, why didn't you crack them and say that you're a Sikh, he said, because it shouldn't matter. It shouldn't matter which I really liked. Like, you shouldn't, doesn't matter if you're wrong, you shouldn't be attacking. It's not about saying, oh, sorry, you're the wrong person. I'm not Muslim, go attack Muslims. He's like, it doesn't matter. They're wrong. Regardless, so I

Preston Meyer  1:00:52
It doesn't matter why you're wrong. Stop being a dick. 

Katie Dooley  1:00:54
Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. So I thought he put I think Preston and Jagmeet Singh put it more eloquently than I could. But yeah, basically, don't be a dick. And I think it, you know, again, don't attack anyone anyway. But that's part of the reason we're doing this podcast, like,

Preston Meyer  1:01:12
To help you be informed. 

Katie Dooley  1:01:13
Like, yeah, I mean, I'm not condoning Islamophobia, but like, gonna be Islamophobic, or at least be Islamophobic. 

Preston Meyer  1:01:21
At least do it right 

Katie Dooley  1:01:24
I don't want to condone it. But like,

Preston Meyer  1:01:27
If we do it, if we can change your mind on whether or not you should do a thing, at least figure out how to do it properly.

Katie Dooley  1:01:38
I mean, it just goes to show how ignorant they are in their Islamophobia, because they don't even know what they're scared of. And that's why I'm here today. And that goes for any religion, right? If you're, I feel like I need to step up on the soapbox. And I'm trying not to because

Preston Meyer  1:01:58
It's so easy to be reminded that people suck an awful lot of the time. But we can all be better.

Katie Dooley  1:02:06
I feel like we should really quickly just record a bonus that we should wrap up Sikhism, but a bonus episode of the genocide in China, which we need to wrap up Sikhism but now I'm getting on the soapbox, because there's this Muslim genocide in China. And I was on Facebook, which was my first mistake. And CBC made a post about and everyone's like, Oh, Trudeau is bringing such a pussy, he needs to call out this genocide, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, this is literally the same group of people that two weeks ago on a post about Muslims and Canada, were like, go back to your country. We don't want Sharia law. And it's like, so you're fine to call it a genocide when you don't have to look at it, but you're happy to promote violence against Muslims here. 

Preston Meyer  1:02:46
People suck. 

Katie Dooley  1:02:47
I was like, ready to flip my table. I just got off Facebook.

Preston Meyer  1:02:52
So I have the idea. The, the what looks to me like the prevailing principle of Sikhism and I really like it, that Sikhism is not about hearing voices from God, as we see a lot in religious traditions. It's about changing the nature of the human mind. Anybody can have personal direct experiences with Divine and they can achieve spiritual perfection at any time, which is more ethereal. And also it doesn't require you to be any place to be able to communicate with the divine because the Divine is everything and everything is in the Divine.

Katie Dooley  1:03:40
I really liked learning about Sikhism and I am excited to go to a Gurdwara. When this pandemic is over with you 

Preston Meyer  1:03:49
Right, it'd be a lot of fun 

Katie Dooley  1:03:50
And learn some more and eat some food.

Preston Meyer  1:03:53
Right? Anytime I can get free food, it's it's a delight, but also being able to break well, I assume there's bread. Being able to break bread 

Katie Dooley  1:04:03
It would definitely be like, naan or roti or something. But yeah, 

Preston Meyer  1:04:06
That's a-okay by me. That's a good experience.

Katie Dooley  1:04:10
I think so and I, South Asian cultures in general are very open to teaching and feeding. I think it'd be a good experience for us when we can go do that. And we'll come back and record an episode on it when we get that chance, hopefully in the fall, but we'll see.

Preston Meyer  1:04:29
Well, that's basically for the notes that we have on Sikhism and thanks for joining us. Be sure to follow us on Instagram and Facebook 

Katie Dooley  1:04:38
@holywatermelonpod 

Preston Meyer  1:04:39
Feel free to email us your questions 

Katie Dooley  1:04:42
[email protected] 

Preston Meyer  1:04:43
But even better. Join us on 

Katie Dooley  1:04:46
Discord?

Preston Meyer  1:04:46
That's the one I'm looking for.

Katie Dooley  1:04:49
Joining us on our Discord we will be posting links on our social media, Instagram and Facebook. Let us know we'd love to have you part of the conversation, make suggestions ask questions. We do address questions in our episode, so send them on over and 

Both Hosts  1:05:07
Peace be with you!