My Buddy Buddha

Is Buddhism a way of life or a religion? Is Buddha divine or is he just a smart guy?

Because Buddhism is such an open religion (you can be a Buddhist and belong to another religious group) many people view it as a way of life instead of as a religion. However, Buddhism directly addresses what happens to your soul after death, which is a pretty religious thing to do. 

In this episode, we tell the story of Siddhartha Gautama. While you might think he’s the first Buddha, he’s actually the 28th Buddha we’ve had on earth, and there are more to come. Siddhartha was born in a royal household and given every creature comfort. It wasn’t until he was an adult that he saw people get sick, live in poverty, grow old, and die. When he had this experience he realized that life is suffering and left his home forever. 

Siddhartha went to the other end of the spectrum and lived with ascetics, depriving himself of sleep and food while he meditated under the famous Bodhi tree, where he eventually received enlightenment after 49 days. This enlightenment brought us the Middle Path – something between indulgence and deprivation. 

Buddhism started in BCE as an oral tradition, by the first century CE we started having records written down. 

Some of the most notable beliefs in Buddhism are the 4 Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path. 

4 Noble Truths

Duhkkha – Life is sufferingSumadaya  - Suffering is caused by cravingNirodha – You can escape the cycle of sufferingMagga – the pathway to escape suffering

Eightfold path

Insight/WisdomRight view – seeing the world as it really is. Actions have consequencesRight intention – our motives must be compassionateMorals/VirtuesRight speech – don’t lie or use abusive/vulgar languageRight conduct – don’t hurt people or don’t satisfy unnecessary appetitesRight livelihood – only do and possess what you mustMeditationRight effort – do not strain yourself unnecessarilyRight mindfulness – do not be absent-minded, live in the momentRight meditation – must control your focus to gain insight

Join us for a broad overview of the Buddhist religion, beliefs, practices, and more!

 

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Preston Meyer  00:00
I’m Preston

Katie Dooley  00:13
and I’m Katie, and

Both Hosts  00:15
Welcome to the Holy Watermelon podcast!

Katie Dooley  00:23
Did you know that nirvana is not only a cool 90s band but a state of enlightenment?

Preston Meyer  00:29
No way! Totally radical,

Katie Dooley  00:33
Nirvana does mean cool though. right? So

Preston Meyer  00:37
That’s pretty awesome.

Katie Dooley  00:37
Smells like teams te- teen spirit teen spirit.

Preston Meyer  00:43
We’ll get there. we’ll get

Katie Dooley  00:46
Kurt Cobain’s just rolling in his grave right now.

Preston Meyer  00:50
Nah, he’s zeen with it all now

Katie Dooley  00:51
guess So Buddhism, it’s uhh...

Preston Meyer  00:59
Kinda a big complicated thing.

Katie Dooley  01:01
It’s, I mean, they all are. Also, preview, I think three episodes from now four episodes for now we’re gonna have a topic that has no answer again. So that’s fun.

Preston Meyer  01:14
Right? I’m looking forward to doing those again.

Katie Dooley  01:18
But some people don’t even think Buddhism is a religion, Preston. And what do you say to those people?

Preston Meyer  01:25
I say you haven’t thought hard enough about it.

Katie Dooley  01:29
I would have said something saltier, but.

Preston Meyer  01:32
I think that’s exactly the level of salty that matches my feelings on that point.

Katie Dooley  01:39
I just take salty to the extreme. Maybe we should talk about why some people think it’s not a religion.

Preston Meyer  01:44
Absolutely. It’s... when we compare it to say Christianity, which is a very exclusionary religion. Like there’s, there’s one God and there is no God, but God, and there’s this set of canon scripture and nothing else really matters. You compare that to Buddhism, which is very diverse, but also very broad,and open and accepting of other ideas. In Japan, most Buddhists are also Confucianists and Shintoists. We’ll talk a little bit more about Shintoism later. And in China, most Buddhists are also Confucianists and Taoists. So it’s easy to look at it as a school of philosophy. But when you also remember that there’s a lot of doctrine about the soul, and life after this life, and beyond that even, if you’re talking about the soul, as separate from your current life, that looks pretty religious to me.

Katie Dooley  02:57
It does, and it’s on a spectrum. But some people think Buddha is divine. And then some people think he was just a guy that had a shit together. So yeah, I mean, if you think he’s any level of divine, then that falls under religion. And I would also argue that, you know, people say Buddhism is a way of life or a philosophy of life, how are other religions... not those things either?

Preston Meyer  03:21
If your religion isn’t your way of life, what are you doing?

Katie Dooley  03:26
Showing up on Sunday to put in some face time?

Preston Meyer  03:29
I mean, a lot of people do exactly that. It’s true.

Katie Dooley  03:32
But even that you could argue is a way of life to show up and put in face time and get something from the community in return

Preston Meyer  03:38
For sure. So to me, Buddhism is a religion.

Katie Dooley  03:42
We’re gonna lump it in with the rest of them in this series. It also has, I have the number somewhere, I think, but has a lot of participants. I can’t find the number in my thing, but it is,

Preston Meyer  03:55
I remember seeing it in your notes near the top it was just around half a billion.

Katie Dooley  03:56
Oh, there it is. I didn’t put it in numbers. Words. I can’t find half a billion people. So obviously people are getting something out of this.

Preston Meyer  04:09
Yeah, absolutely.

Katie Dooley  04:11
How did it started, Preston? How?

Preston Meyer  04:15
Well we’ve got this fella named Siddhartha Gautama. Buddha is a title rather than a proper name. Exactly. And it means enlightened or awoke or just woke. And Siddhartha Gautama was a pretty special kid before he became the Buddha. He was born into a royal household in India/Nepal area and there was this prophecy that was given shortly after or shortly before, that he would become a great nation leader if he stayed in the home or a great spiritual leader. If he left the home, and his parents wanting to preserve their dynasty, said, “well, we’re just keeping keep them in the house.” And that worked out great for a while.

Katie Dooley  05:10
The OG helicopter parents.

Preston Meyer  05:12
Oh, yeah, for sure, totally. And that will become incredibly obvious as we go into further details. Like he never saw anybody gets sick. He’d never saw anybody die. He never saw poor people out the window.

Katie Dooley  05:26
He had whatever he wanted, like food, and he they married him off young to someone, I presume, was quite beautiful. And just like every wish was his command.

Preston Meyer  05:37
Yeah, it was pretty great that... if I could live like that, I would feel pretty good about it. In the moment,

Katie Dooley  05:43
I think you need more Buddhism in your life.

Preston Meyer  05:49
But things changed for our guy. Siddhartha Gautama eventually did go for a wander and he saw all kinds of things that he did not like at all.

Katie Dooley  06:02
Like sick, dead, poor.

Preston Meyer  06:06
Yeah, exactly. There’s a fourth one on that list and now I have to go through which ones you did.

Katie Dooley  06:13
Poor, homeless?

Preston Meyer  06:15
And old. And he realized, life is suffering. I’ve been living a lie. And so he walked away from this wonderful life he had at home.

Katie Dooley  06:32
Oh, no,

Preston Meyer  06:33
Permanently.

Katie Dooley  06:33
Oh, no. Not what his parents wanted for him.

Preston Meyer  06:36
Not at all.

Katie Dooley  06:37
Are any of us doing what our parents want?

Preston Meyer  06:39
Very few of us, I think. I know I’m not

Katie Dooley  06:44
we’re writing We’re writing... We’re producing a podcast on religion.

Preston Meyer  06:49
Definitely not what my mom and dad wanted for me. But here we are anyway. And we are spreading light and knowledge on things that may or may not affect your day to day life.

Katie Dooley  07:04
I think it should affect your day to day life.

Preston Meyer  07:06
I think so. But everybody’s different. Right?

Katie Dooley  07:10
So we went on the spiritual quest, he lived with the ascetics. Poor, meditating. What happened?

Preston Meyer  07:18
Well, now I’m just thinking of vinegar. I’ve never heard anybody say acetic before. I know how it said. I’ve always heard it ascetic. But I can’t say for sure that everyone else I’ve talked to said it right, either.

Katie Dooley  07:29
Literally every episode, it comes down to like, are we pronouncing this right? We’ve only read it in books.

Preston Meyer  07:36
Yeah, that has happened kind of a bit.

Katie Dooley  07:38
We haven’t even started talking about the Tipitaka yet, so that’ll be another... We’ll get to that and everyone can listen to us butcher words. Really good. Tell us what happened when he

Preston Meyer  07:50
So being inspired by a random homeless person, he decided... he went on a spiritual quest. He wanted to escape suffering. And knowing that life is suffering, he went about trying to figure out how that is and why that’s the case. And he became woke. He was awakened under the famous Bodhi fig tree, which it’s not super clear, but I’m fairly confident that Bodhi fig tree was named after the Bodhisattva. The Buddha

Katie Dooley  08:35
And that’s still in India today.

Preston Meyer  08:38
The same tree isn’t still there.

Katie Dooley  08:40
But there is a giant ass...

Preston Meyer  08:42
There is a huge Bohdi fig tree

Katie Dooley  08:47
That’s gotta be old but probably not 2500 years old.

Preston Meyer  08:53
It’s about almost 2300 years old, almost.

Katie Dooley  08:57
Okay, then. I mean, that would put it close to Buddha’s time.

Preston Meyer  09:02
Pretty close, relatively speaking. It’s closer to his time than ours. So that’s point. And so there’s a lot of pilgrimage to this newish tree every year.

Katie Dooley  09:16
And he meditated there for 49 days.

Preston Meyer  09:19
Yeah. Which is more than a week longer than Jesus’ 40-day fast. And Jesus spent his time walking around, but the Buddha just chilled out and meditated. So really, who was using more energy during their fast

Katie Dooley  09:35
I mean we had this conversation... Did Jesus get to sleep? He just didn’t get eat.

Preston Meyer  09:42
He just didn’t get to eat or drink

Katie Dooley  09:43
Okay, so I mean, I feel worse for the Buddha then.

Preston Meyer  09:48
I think that he got himself some new robes after that 49 days. I think you would need to. I mean, if you didn’t eat or drink during this meditation, he wouldn’t produce anything new to sit in after his third day, right? But he’d still be sitting in it for that whole time unless he meditated completely in the nude, which some people do but I don’t think that’s part of this story.

Katie Dooley  10:13
I don’t know... he must’ve taken breaks, he must have had a pee break. But then is that how you reach enlightenment? I don’t know. Anyway, I don’t recommend to you to meditate for 49 days straight.

Preston Meyer  10:28
We have people on record, having tried it in the last few years. And not one of them has achieved anything other than severe, severe, disgusting deaths.

Katie Dooley  10:44
Buddha Siddhartha, on the other hand, discovered the middle path. That was after 49 days, he came up with this idea, the middle path, which is somewhere between indulgence and deprivation. He was...

Preston Meyer  10:57
Avoid the extremes. 49 days of meditation sounds extreme.

Katie Dooley  11:01
I know. But Moses also spent forty years in a desert that takes six days so... Time management is clearly a prerequisite to being some sort of divine Prophet, poor time management, I should say. Yeah, so he’s like this indulgent life I lived as a kid was way too much. And this way of ascetics, is this also too much in a different way. So just live your life in...

Preston Meyer  11:27
The middle path

Katie Dooley  11:28
In moderation. Now, the Buddhist tradition was mostly oral, it started in about 500 BCE, I have a couple of dates down here. Clearly, we don’t know for sure.

Preston Meyer  11:44
Right. And like a lot of our religious traditions we’ve looked at before, they are along the lines of being founded by a reformer kind of thing.

Katie Dooley  11:54
Yeah. So started about 500 BCE, as an oral tradition and then in the first century CE they started writing it down. So we see this all the time. You had an influential person, nobody thinks to write it down at the time. So 100 years later,

Preston Meyer  12:10
I think it’s more a question of capacity. There’s being able to write back in this stage or history is not a common skill. We just need to send time travelers further back, teach them better writing skills. Typewriters might help, or I mean, since they’d going to break I’ll teach them how to use a pencil.

Katie Dooley  12:37
So in the first century CE, we started to write it down the book, I guess, the text is called the Tipitaka. There are three sections, and they are generally not considered divine unlike we see, unlike that was a bad sentence. Unlike in the Abrahamic or Vedic traditions, which are considered divine, there is the Vinaya Pitaka are the code for monks, there is this Sutta Pitaka, the teachings of the Buddha and the Abhidhamma Pitaka supplementary teachings.

Preston Meyer  13:12
And so this Tipitaka is just basically wisdom literature, to help people understand what the universe has in store and also a little bit of commanding ritual, like how to meditate, how to take care of things, how to be good neighbors, there’s a little bit of that

Katie Dooley  13:29
All the, the, I guess the philosophies and ways of life that we were talking about earlier, and there’s 84,000 teachings of the Buddha. He talked a lot if it was an oral tradition,

Preston Meyer  13:41
Right? Be nice to have that many episodes out of our podcast. But I think it’s

Katie Dooley  13:48
84,000 bi weekly.

Preston Meyer  13:51
We couldn’t do it. I know that but I think we could generate that many words.

Katie Dooley  13:57
We can’t do it... It would take us 3200 years.

Preston Meyer  14:02
Yeah, if we have that many words, though, between so many of our episodes, maybe

Katie Dooley  14:07
I’m sure we do, probably, we talk a lot. So Siddhartha was not the first Buddha, what?!, Explain.

Preston Meyer  14:19
So the role of the Buddha is to come and restore the Buddha’s teachings and understanding of Buddhist cosmology to the earth. Siddhartha Gautama is the 28th Buddha on Earth. Theoretically, there’s other lines of Buddhas on other planets too, if you want to get into those lines of Buddhism. And so there’s, there’s always somebody new. And we’ve actually also received promise that there will be another Buddha after Siddhartha Gautama. We don’t have his his name prophesied of what he’ll be called when he’s born, but the title that is given to him by Siddhartha Gautama is Maitreya Booyah. Let me try that again. Maitreya Buddha.

Katie Dooley  15:11
Yeah, there’s Ds in there.

Preston Meyer  15:14
And he’s also called the Budai in Chan Buddhism, or Zen Buddhism, as it’s often called as well. This Budai is the laughing fat Buddha that everybody’s reasonably familiar with seeing as opposed to the skinny Buddha, that we also frequently see that is Siddhartha Gautama.

Katie Dooley  15:35
The chubby Buddha is yet to come. I don’t know how to segue in. What doess Buddhism teach?

Preston Meyer  15:44
Well, having come from, kind of as an offshoot of Hinduism, there’s this idea that there’s a cycle of lives the samsara

Katie Dooley  15:55
I thought you were gonna see cycle of lies.

Preston Meyer  16:00
I mean, for some people, maybe. Anyway, if you get to keep living, and you’re a liar, and you’re a liar, and you’re a liar, then cycle of lies, there you go. But that’s not the ideal. And I don’t think that actually comes into play and the teachings of the Buddha so much. And so there’s this idea that, wherever your station of life may be, you can hope to ascend to enlightenment, which will require learning in this life, and then achieve nirvana, escaping samsara. That’s not a universal goal, the Mahayana Buddhists are more frequently inclined to stay rather than escape, which is kind of cool. We’ll talk a little bit more about that later. And vocabulary shifts a little bit between Hinduism and Buddhism, like the idea of Dharma has slightly different meaning. In Hinduism, it’s it’s pretty straight up. This is your duty, your duty as your dharma in Buddhism, dharma is more used as just talking about the teachings of the Buddha. And the interpretations of it.

Katie Dooley  17:17
You know, the best part about Buddhism is?

Preston Meyer  17:20
What’s the best part of Buddhism?

Katie Dooley  17:22
Everything, all the teachings are numbered! I love that. It just makes it easy for people to understand.

Preston Meyer  17:29
Like we have the Four Noble Truths.

Katie Dooley  17:32
Shall I start?

Preston Meyer  17:33
Go for it.

Katie Dooley  17:33
Okay, Truth number one: Dukkha. I hope I’m saying that right?

Preston Meyer  17:38
It’s either Dukkha Dukka. If the transliterates knew what they were doing, it’s gonna be one of those.

Katie Dooley  17:43
Okay. Dukkha: Life is suffering. Everyone gets old and sick and dies.

Preston Meyer  17:52
Man, what a bummer. Good thing that’s where we start.

Katie Dooley  17:54
Yeah, it does get better. It gets better. Just like A Christmas Carol.

Preston Meyer  18:00
It does get better.

Katie Dooley  18:02
Also numbered.

Preston Meyer  18:05
All right. The second Noble Truth is Samudaya. That suffering is caused by craving. So figure out what you’re craving, and maybe you can mitigate that suffering a little bit. So it’s up to you to change what you want.

Katie Dooley  18:22
Number three: Nirodha. You can escape the cycle of suffering.

Preston Meyer  18:27
That’s good news.

Katie Dooley  18:28
Yeah, we’re turning turning around here.

Preston Meyer  18:31
That is ultimately the gospel message of all of Buddhism is that there is an escape to suffering. And I like

Katie Dooley  18:37
That’s almost all gospel messages, period.

Preston Meyer  18:42
Usually. The fourth is Magga. Yay, get your red caps on.

Katie Dooley  18:51
There’s two G’s...

Preston Meyer  18:52
Yes, M A, G, G, A. And if you capitalize the whole word, I don’t know what you’re doing. But Magga is the pathway to accomplish this escape from suffering. And there’s an elaboration on this Magga is the eightfold path. So what is the first part of this eightfold path which we should know it is represented by that wagon wheel or the eight spokes wheel. Ship steering wheel. Yeah. We’re like pumping our fist. Yay, visual media.

Katie Dooley  19:34
The full path is also broken into three parts. So the first one is insight or wisdom and the first point of that is the right view. So see the world as it really is, and then our actions have consequences.

Preston Meyer  19:47
Super important. I mean, actually, all all eight of these plants are super important. That’s why they are here where they are. Alright, so the second part of that insight on the Eightfold Path is right intention. It’s important that our motives must be compassionate, that we can’t go around being selfish all the time. It’s not going to get us anywhere. It’s certainly not going to bring us enlightenment,

Katie Dooley  20:18
This one actually says, don’t be a dick. Weird. The second section is moral virtue. And the first one in that section is right speech. So don’t lie and don’t use abusive or vulgar language. So I’m not a very good Buddhist. I mean, I don’t lie generally, but I do

Preston Meyer  20:44
Use abusive language

Katie Dooley  20:45
I curse more than I should, where I’m literally the reason we have an explicit podcast so.... fuck.

Preston Meyer  20:58
I swore once on this podcast real good but I was quoting somebody else. Alright, the fourth part of this eightfold path is right conduct. So basically, don’t go around hurting people certainly don’t go around killing people. Basically, if you’re going to cause harm, you’re not using right conduct. And it’s also part of this that you should not be going around satisfying, unnecessary appetites. So like having lots and lots of sex all day every day, definitely frowned upon. Not that that’s many people’s real life. But that is some people’s proper intents

Katie Dooley  21:43
David Duchovny was a sex addict probably still is.

Preston Meyer  21:47
Who knows? I know we did that Californication show?

Katie Dooley  21:50
No, I think he’s like an actual...

Preston Meyer  21:52
I mean, probably who knows? When you’re rich and handsome, you can get away with a lot of things.

Katie Dooley  21:58
Number five, the rightfold path or rightfold path?? I’m reading the line. Number five of the Eightfold Path is Right Livelihood only do and possess what you must. So that is just like being a minimalist, which is, you know,

Preston Meyer  22:14
It’s weird that attached to that idea is the idea that you shouldn’t go out and work.

Katie Dooley  22:20
I think that’s more for the monks but uhh

Preston Meyer  22:24
Probably instead should just beg for food. Yeah not money but food.

Katie Dooley  22:35
I think that’s, I mean, like extrapolating, especially for the average Buddhist, that’s probably, you know, where we talk about being worldly. Right? If you’re working so much that, like, why are you working so hard? Right? Why? Especially where we are in Canada, why do people work so hard? Because we try to keep up with the Joneses. And I think that’s what this point is trying to say. Is like,

Preston Meyer  22:57
Don’t work harder than you should be.

Katie Dooley  22:58
Yeah, there’s what like, yeah, honestly, like, what for?

Preston Meyer  23:03
Right? All right, point number six, beginning into the third bracket of this eightfold path, which is meditation. Point number six is right effort. Do not strain yourself unnecessarily.

Katie Dooley  23:17
What was I just saying?

Preston Meyer  23:19
Right? It’s, it’s similar to the last point, but it’s different because it’s targeted towards meditation, that you need to be able to just kind of do it. Just sit down, chill out, be in the moment, be mindful. And now I’m leading into the next point, I’m just going to let you take

Katie Dooley  23:45
I’ll just take over right now. Thank you, just passing the baton. Number seven is right, mindfulness. Do not be absent minded and live in the moment. Meditation is big on like calming the monkey brain that humans have, and probably more so now than ever, with all the electronics and distractions that we have. So just be in the moment and focus on what’s at hand and clear your mind of everything.

Preston Meyer  24:14
And when other thoughts come into your mind,

Katie Dooley  24:17
Squash them!

Preston Meyer  24:18
No, that’s not right at all... That’s the opposite of Zen. You’re... the way I was taught to meditate when I was in university was that when thoughts come into your mind, you can acknowledge them but don’t grab on to them. Just let them float on by.

Katie Dooley  24:41
I feel like I’m being really dramatic today.

Preston Meyer  24:43
A little bit, but that’s okay.

Katie Dooley  24:44
I just miss humans.

Preston Meyer  24:46
Right? This pandemic sucks. And the eighth spoke on this wheel of the Eightfold Path is right meditation called Samadhi which is that you must control your focus to gain insight, so when distracting thoughts come to your mind, you have to be able to let them go. There is a, an aspect of control to it, but you don’t need to mute every thought that comes into your mind. But you need to be able to clear your mind.

Katie Dooley  25:17
Acknowledge, release.

Preston Meyer  25:18
Acknowledge, release, acknowledge, release, and eventually your mind will be clear enough that you can gain insight. That’s the goal, anyway.

Katie Dooley  25:25
It took, I mean, it took Buddha 49 days, so don’t stress out guys.

Preston Meyer  25:28
Right, and he’s the guy. Well, and that’s to gain enlightenment. Insight is like one step on that ladder.

Katie Dooley  25:39
Yeah, baby step. Don’t worry about it.

Preston Meyer  25:45
There’s more numbers. So there’s a series of reasonably common prayers in Buddhism, the jewels, the prayers of the three refuges. What are they, Katie?

Katie Dooley  26:00
I take refuge in my Buddha. I take refuge in my dharma. And I take refuge (I’m sure there’s a better word for this) in my religious community.

Preston Meyer  26:13
Yeah, that’s pretty much the deal.

Katie Dooley  26:15
I was gonna say namaste, but that is not Buddhist at all.

Preston Meyer  26:18
I mean, it’s not anti-Buddhist, but it’s not a strictly Buddhist sentiment.

Katie Dooley  26:26
So that’s basically what they believe.

Preston Meyer  26:30
Right. And those sentiments are fairly common through most religious traditions, really. Thanks for the prophet or God. Thanks for the teachings I’ve got. Sometimes thanks for the book. And then thanks for my religious community where I take refuge.

Katie Dooley  26:50
I mean, yeah. Pretty sweet.

Preston Meyer  26:52
Not terribly foreign.

Katie Dooley  26:54
Preston!

Preston Meyer  26:55
Katie!

Katie Dooley  26:56
Guess what? We have a Discord!

Preston Meyer  26:59
Yeah, we do. We even got a question from one of our friends on Discord.

Katie Dooley  27:04
I’m gonna plug the Discord real quick. Join us on Discord. We have... we have channels for all the different religious religions that you can have constructive debates and conversations on. We have announcements, we have suggestions, and you can post memes and questions, all sorts of great stuff. We will be posting the links on our social media because it isn’t on the discoverable server yet.

Preston Meyer  27:37
Well, it’s brand new, and we need 7000 members to join.

Katie Dooley  27:41
But it’s a great place to ask questions for upcoming episodes, just like this next one, which was what is the difference between Mahayana and Theravada Buddhism, Preston?

Preston Meyer  27:52
All right. It’s, it’s not a simple answer.

Katie Dooley  27:59
But we’re gonna simplify it.

Preston Meyer  28:00
We’re gonna do our best. There’s so much to it. And I know that some of you will probably just look us up on or not look us up, look this up on Wikipedia, and you’ll get a far more thorough and detailed set of answers. But basically, Theravada Buddhism is the school of the elders. It’s the oldest, continuing like still present tradition of Buddhism and it’s more orthodox, it’s more strictly organized, I guess. They believe the Buddha was human and it’s very meditation focused. A lot of the tradition is it shows a clear connection to the Hinduism that Buddhism was born out of, that the goal is pretty universally that you should escape this cycle of lives. In contrast to that, Mahayana Buddhism is also incredibly diverse. More diverse than Theravada Buddhism is, there’s loads of subdivisions in there. But by and large, it is under an umbrella, I guess that is called the great vehicle, meaning the great vehicle that will take you to awakening. However, there’s a very strong tradition present in Mahayana Buddhism, of not escaping the cycle of samsara, that it is a lot more acceptable to intend to come back for more lives when you could have escaped, so that you can show compassion to those who are stuck here who can’t escape yet. And I’m sure there’s other motivations but it’s kind of the number one motivation that’s taught for that practice. It’s a great goal but for Mahayana Buddhists, it’s a lot more common to put that off for a little while to help out the people who are still here. Until theoretically, there’s enough other people who can take over your job. And then you can go ahead and disappear. Which I mentioned before, I’m going to talk about it more later. I’m still going to talk about it more later.

Katie Dooley  30:26
Keeping us on the edge of our seat! What are you going to talk about?

Preston Meyer  30:30
You’ll see when I bring it up again later.

Katie Dooley  30:32
So I did a whole bunch of research on Buddhist monks.

Preston Meyer  30:38
All right, what do you learn

Katie Dooley  30:39
Lots! Which they are... I mean, they’re the visible Buddhists. Your average Buddhist is probably your neighbor, that’s a Buddhist, you probably have no no idea. But we all have this image of the... we all have this image of like the orange or red, I want to say cloak, that’s robes, and shaved head. You know what a Buddhist is. So the term is actually bhikkhu, which means beggar or one who lives by alms. So if you’re a Buddhist monk, you spend most of your time begging and studying. You can be a male or female Buddhist monk, Buddhism is far more egalitarian than Hinduism. There’s no caste system, and men and women are viewed completely equally in Buddhism. So you can be a female Buddhist monk as well. And you can start really young, some parts of Buddhism will ordain you as early as six years old, as a monk, which is kind of cool. Some of them you have to be like, in your you have to be an adult, like 18 or 20. But you can be a six year old Buddhist monk. That’s pretty cool.  Yeah, I mean, depending on where you are in the world, you may see Buddhist monks begging. I know in Vancouver, Canada, this is more common they have a higher Asian population than almost anywhere in Canada. So you can definitely see Buddhist monks begging in Vancouver, and I’m sure there’s places in the States as well. And obviously, if you go to predominantly Buddhist countries, you will see this, they are not begging for money, do not give them money, they will literally have to dump it on the ground, it is a waste of your money. They are begging for food, please go buy them a sandwich.

Preston Meyer  32:39
It’s not a complete waste of your money. But you do need to know that your money is not what you think it is.

Katie Dooley  32:45
They’re dropping it on the ground and someone else is picking it up. Yeah, maybe someone who needs it maybe someone who doesn’t. They are not allowed to ask for anything. So they won’t tell you that they can’t take your money and that they would really rather have

Preston Meyer  32:59
A sandwich,

Katie Dooley  33:01
or burger or whatever. So just if you ever see one and you’re like compelled to give, instead of donating that money to them Go to the nearest subway and buy them a sandwich.

Preston Meyer  33:11
So you say burger. But you and I both know that an awful lot of Buddhists are vegetarian.

Katie Dooley  33:16
That is true. But if you’re begging for beggars can’t be choosers... I don’t know how that works. If you have the means to get them a vegetarian dish, then...

Preston Meyer  33:26
They would appreciate that.

Katie Dooley  33:29
They have a lot of rules to live by. I believe I wrote down the number 149. That number isn’t in my brain, but I don’t see it in my notes. But they have a whole bunch of rules to live by. Which I’m not going to get into because there are a lot of them. But there are five rules more numbers that are common throughout Buddhism not just for Bhikku. Number one refrain from harming living beings. This goes back to our vegetarian comment. Number two, refrain from taking which is not freely given. So again, we can’t ask for something. Number three, refrain from sexual misconduct,

Preston Meyer  34:10
Don’t be a rapists, good advice.

Katie Dooley  34:13
Number four, refrain from wrong speech such as lying, idle chatter, malicious gossip or harsh speech again, Katie is not the best Buddhist and number five is refrain from intoxicating drink and drugs which leads to carelessness. So, the other distinguishing feature of Buddhist monks that I spoke of when I started talking about this was, bald. And I learned a new vocabulary word the practice tonsure or the shaving of the head for religious reasons, reasons. Reasons. Play that in Scrabble.

Preston Meyer  34:49
So is tonsure shavedness, or the act of shaving?

Katie Dooley  34:55
I think it is the state of being shaved not just the act of shaping. I think Buddhist monks are basically the only people who do it now. But this was also common in medieval Christian monks, Friar Tuck.

Preston Meyer  35:11
Friar Tuck is famously bald on the crown of his head.

Katie Dooley  35:15
That is another example tonsure

Preston Meyer  35:16
I always think that’s so funny that so many Christian monastic orders require baldness when the Bible that they spend all of their time studying, because I mean, you don’t have a whole lot of time for other things in these monasteries, tells you not to do that.

Katie Dooley  35:33
I mean, Jesus was a hippie.

Preston Meyer  35:35
I mean, he would have looked like one for sure.

Katie Dooley  35:39
And that’s, that’s your Buddhist monk, who’s the most famous Buddhist monk?

Preston Meyer  35:44
All right. So I got two that come to mind. Thich Nhat Hanh is actually super popular. He’s on Oprah occasionally.

Katie Dooley  35:51
And you know who else was on Oprah?

Preston Meyer  35:53
The Dalai Lama!

Katie Dooley  35:54
What!

Preston Meyer  35:56
Was he? I assume so. I don’t know I haven’t googled that. But the Dalai Lama. He’s a fella that I’ve alluded to a couple of times.

Katie Dooley  36:06
This is what he’s bbeen building up to the climax of the episode. I hope it lives up, too.

Preston Meyer  36:11
So the Dalai Lama is hugely popular. He’s revered outside of his religion. He’s made a huge effort to be recognized outside of Tibetan Buddhism, which is a subset kind of, of Mahayana Buddhism. So he’s basically the leader of Tibet, which of course, is a nation that no other country honors as being its own nation. Because everybody’s like, yeah, I just don’t want China to be pissed at me. So every now and then you’ll see a Free Tibet protest, but no country is willing to say, “Yeah, Free Tibet”, on an official statement.

Katie Dooley  36:51
Like Israel/Palestine, right?

Preston Meyer  36:53
Except not as complicated. It’s straight up China said Tibet, It’s ours now. And we’re not letting it go. And it’s not going to change. Israel/Palestine is a much broad-- bigger conversation that we will have later. So the Dalai Lama is a title. It means big master. And he is, like I said, the head of state of Tibet. The current Dalai Lama is titled the 14th Dalai Lama. He’s been continually going through this samsara cycle, since, well, forever. He’s had 74 incarnations since the time of Siddhartha Gautama, only the last 14, has he actually born the title Dalai Lama, this office was created in 1391 CE as the head of state of Tibet. And so he’s been wearing this mantle forever, he’s taken it beyond its older scope, to be more ecumenical. He is seen as a leader of people who don’t necessarily subscribe to Tibetan Buddhism in particular, or Buddhism at all, broadly. He’s just respected as a wise religious leader. It’s like Protestants who think it’s perfectly reasonable to listen to the Pope, you’ve got people who aren’t Christian, who aren’t Buddhist at all, listening to the Dalai Lama, because he’s got wisdom to share. And he is an incredibly compassionate person, which is pretty awesome. And I think that’s really a big part of what makes them so popular.

Katie Dooley  38:47
People like nice people.

Preston Meyer  38:48
Right? It’s he’s easy to like, unfortunately, the Chinese government is, you know, not super friendly to Tibet, and its attempt to be freed from Chinese rule. And so it’s become very obvious that they will interfere in the selection of the next Dalai Lama, which is a thing that happens whenever the current Dalai Lama dies, they go out looking for him again, usually takes a little while you have to wait for the appropriate amount of time to say yes, he has been born. And then a further amount of appropriate time to say that he has grown enough that we could recognize him when we go looking. So the Chinese government, it’s public knowledge, they’re going to interfere in this process. So the Dalai Lama is currently on the fence. At least when he speaks publicly. He is presenting it as though he’s on the fence on whether or not he will come back. So the Dalai Lama said a few years ago on an interview that he was going to make a decision with others in counsel when he’s 90, so we’ve got until 2025 to wait. And I mean, presumably this guy could live to be 100. He’s incredibly healthy,

Katie Dooley  40:13
Because he doesn’t eat meat or say me things about people.

Preston Meyer  40:16
But he is also an enemy of the state of China. So he’s managed to avoid what I can imagine are probably a few assassination attempts, but I haven’t looked it up. But if you’re an enemy of such a powerful government, there’s probably been attempts. But he, he’s still alive, which is impressive. But after more than 70 incarnations since the time of Siddhartha Gautama he is finally considering calling it quits, and not coming back anymore, and going and enjoying nirvana.

Katie Dooley  40:57
What would that mean for Buddhists worldwide? Hypothesize.

Preston Meyer  41:01
Well, worldwide, he’s not really a religious leader to most Buddhists. He’s just a revered wise dude.

Katie Dooley  41:10
Just like me me. I’m kidding.

Preston Meyer  41:14
He has no ecclesiastical authority over most Buddhists. So broadly, it would have no real impact. But for Tibet, that would require a reorganization of their government structure.

Katie Dooley  41:28
Like it woud be like the if Pope was like, I don’t want to be pope anymore.

Preston Meyer  41:31
Like we had happen.

Katie Dooley  41:32
Well, not even that but like, there shouldn’t be a Pope and yeah, I’d be bigger.

Preston Meyer  41:36
Yeah, having the Pope say no more Popes I mean, that would be along the lines of everybody’s reaction in the theater when Luke said no more Jedi. Everyone’s like, what the hell Disney Stop it.

Katie Dooley  41:51
Seagulls stop it now.

Preston Meyer  41:53
I love that ridiculous, ridiculous project.

Katie Dooley  41:59
So yeah they, I yeah, I guess Tibet’s gonna have to figure something.

Preston Meyer  42:04
Yeah. And they’ll figure it out. And it’s all up to them. And I’m sure it’ll be fine. I don’t think it’ll mean a whole lot religiously for Tibetan Buddhists. But it might mean something for them as their own organization statewise. But honestly, not enough that would impact the rest of the world either. But the whole world loves the Dalai Lama. So I mean, his passing just as its own thing would be a huge worldwide recognized event.

Katie Dooley  42:40
So our last points are just a nice summary of what Buddhism looks like in North America.

Preston Meyer  42:47
So in Canada, and as far as I can tell, the United States isn’t really a whole lot different from Canada in this respect. Buddhism was brought here by immigrants mostly. But during that counterculture movement of the 60s and 70s, an awful lot of white Christians, who were tired of their parents, tired of the religious flavor of the government, and tired of their overbearing pastors and priests and whatnot, decided, I can do this my own way. Which of course, if you ever watch a teenager rebel always means look at the next thing, and not actually do it your own way.

Katie Dooley  43:30
Well, I’m gonna jump in here. Like I, I love the numbers, and that the points are really easy. And all eight points, the eightfold path makes sense when not all 10 of the 10 commandments make sense, just sayin’

Preston Meyer  43:44
it’s pretty solid. It’s a very agreeable, chosen religion. And so this counterculture movement happened. We talked about it with Hinduism, that white folks adopted a lot of Hinduist practices and ideas, and then ended up carrying them into their Christianity. There’s a lot less of that in Buddhism, but it’s it is also happening,

Katie Dooley  44:05
I think it’s probably because Buddhism is a nice complement. You know, what it means? It can live complimentary to whatever, you’re exactly where it’s that doesn’t happen quite as much. Hinduism will absorb your religious practice, whereas Buddhism will lie next to it nicely.

Preston Meyer  44:22
Yeah. That’s a pretty good way of looking at it. And so, with all of these, both immigrants, and I’m... multigenerational, at this point, Buddhists and these counter culturalist white people who have adopted Buddhism, and also others who have just looked at it, not in a rebellious way, but just says, “Yeah, this is good, I want it”. There’s a lot of people who are Buddhists without belonging to any particular group, a lot that are happy to visit monasteries and temples without ever associating with them on any permanent basis.

Katie Dooley  45:01
Yeah this is where that like way of life argument comes in. And people go, Well, I just, you know, I don’t eat meat and I am nice to everyone so therefore I’m a Buddhist. A way of life as opposed to some sort of worshipfulness, but I still agree with our original assessment.

Preston Meyer  45:18
Yeah, I think I suspect that an influence on the statement that Buddhism isn’t a religion is those people who say, I’m spiritual, but not religious. I do the Buddhist thing. I think that’s definitely a part of that evaluation. And so there’s, like I mentioned before, it’s it’s not absolutist, it’s there is no, us versus them that’s part of the deepest Buddhist feelings like there is in Christianity. Christianity, and Islam and Judaism. And less Judaism than Christianity and Islam. See the world in this constant conflict of good versus evil. And Buddhism is just like, yeah, life sucks. The world is a big ball of suffering, try and get off.

Katie Dooley  46:10
Get me off this rock

Preston Meyer  46:12
Right? And that’s from an outsider perspective, that is a very appealing perspective.

Katie Dooley  46:21
Any final thoughts? Summary, that we missed, points to be made?

Preston Meyer  46:29
I think that, like we’ve we’ve talked about how religion is a spectrum that within Christianity within Judaism, within Islam, you’ve got this spectrum. And like any person can fall anywhere in that spectrum. That’s more true of Buddhism.

Katie Dooley  46:47
The spectrum feels more natural and Buddhism it does. Whereas we’re gonna talk about this in more detail in the next episode, but especially in the Abrahamic traditions, you get this No True Scotsman fallacy. Whereas in Buddhism, it just like feels natural that you fall, where ever you want to fall, and nobody’s gonna go, “Well, you’re not a Buddhist”.

Preston Meyer  47:08
Yeah. In Buddhist, it’s, yeah, you’re a Buddhist, you just happen to be walking a different path than me,

Katie Dooley  47:13
Your middle path. And I guess that’s where the middle path is a nice, and I think, a refreshing belief, if that’s the word I want. Doctrine? Is because your middle path can look different to someone else’s middle path.

Preston Meyer  47:27
Well, it’s not a narrow path. No, it’s a rather broad path, you have a lot of latitude in your practice in Buddhism, more so than you would see in the other religions that we’ve talked about, except Hinduism, I guess, is also pretty broad allowance for your path as well. But not quite so much as Buddhism, like it’s, there’s the idea that you should stay close to the middle. But it’s a wide path and as long as you’re not jumping off either side, you’re gonna be fine.

Katie Dooley  48:00
I think. Yeah, no, I am reminded of us house shopping, actually. And that, I mean, we live in a single family home, it’s three bedroom, two bath, and it’s just me and my husband. So some might argue that it’s too much. And maybe it is, but we actually reduced our budget halfway through the shopping because we realize what we’re looking for was too much. And that was us, you know, bringing it from this idea of excess to something more moderate and so yeah, that might look different from someone else’s house shopping. But I think that’s a good example of the middle path. I don’t know. Maybe that’s maybe that’s dumb maybe making it about me.

Preston Meyer  48:42
As weird as it sounds, religion is always about you.

Katie Dooley  48:48
Oh, I just now I’m excited for episode What will it be? This is 11episode 14.

Preston Meyer  48:54
I mean, to be honest, I never even think about numbers about these anymore.

Katie Dooley  48:58
I do because I’m the one has to number them.

Preston Meyer  49:01
When I go through to listen to our episode thing, I just look for the biggest number and then I listened to that and make sure everything’s okay

Katie Dooley  49:14
Cool, well, I hope you learned something about Buddhism. It was always one of my favorites in school because it was just so moderate.

Preston Meyer  49:20
There’s so much to learn. Yeah, it’s fascinating.

Katie Dooley  49:23
And you can take you in whatever direction you want to take it you can be super Orthodox and and religious with it. Or you can just not eat meat and be a little hippie dippie with it.

Preston Meyer  49:32
Yeah. Or you can look at the whole thing from the outside is just a religious sociologist or anthropologist. Which is, I’ve actually started writing that on my resume. Now, instead of saying I took religious studies, no, I took religious sociology or religious anthropology because when I say religious studies, people like, what good is theology going to do you? I mean, yes, I also studied theology, but that’s not what this is.

Katie Dooley  49:58
Whatever I say I have an interest in or Religious Studies people like I didn’t know you were religious. I’m like “I’m not” you don’t need to be religious to study religious studies

Preston Meyer  50:05
Yes. So that’s why I say sociology or anthropology instead of studies

Katie Dooley  50:10
Well, everyone you can find us on Discord now. Join us join the conversation, have conversations with other listeners. We are on Facebook and Instagram at Holy watermelon pod. I forgot what our handle was.

Preston Meyer  50:28
That’s terrible. You’re created it.

Katie Dooley  50:31
So Instagram, Facebook, @holywatermelonpod. [email protected] Or please come check out our Discord and let’s continue this conversation. Until next time...

Both Hosts  50:45
Peace be with you!