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Games in Schools and Libraries
135 episodes - English - Latest episode: over 2 years ago - ★★★★★ - 5 ratingsThe Games in Schools and Libraries podcast is about board, card and digital games, and the ways in which they can find a place in schools or at the local library.
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Episodes
GSL 128: ShushCon19 Game Reviews
June 04, 2019 16:23 - 25.3 MBIn Games in Schools and Libraries 128 Donald and Chris review games that were donated for ShushCon 2019. Donald will be at ALA Summer Annual in DC. Let us know via email or social media if you’ll be there and would like to either play a game or record a segment for the show. Games Covered Fate/Fate Accelerated 3 Cheers for Master Cursed Court Renfair Gloom in Space Koi Nevermore Merchants of Araby Between two Castles of Mad King Ludwig 10 Minute Heist Games in Schools and ...
GSL 127: An Amazing Story of How Kids Went from Playing RPGs to Designing One
May 29, 2019 12:46 - 41.8 MBCameron Hays taught his students what RPGs are, and they loved them so much, they began to make their own in a completely self-driven way. From creating their own Google Classroom to assign each other responsibilities to playing and playtesting, hear how Cameron's students are creating an RPG that represents the best of how we can use games in the classroom to increase student engagement and generate authentic results. https://www.gencon.com/attend/trade [email protected] Gen...
GSL 126: A Universe of Story
May 22, 2019 22:30 - 36.5 MBSpace Games! In Games in Schools and Libraries 126 Donald and Chris get extra spacey as they talk about games they have brought into the library to support 2019 Summer Reading and the Moonrise Grant. More Space Games. Space is big! Space Games Space Base Gloom in Space Terraforming Mars Rover Control Gravwell Silent Death / Arclight Roll for the Galaxy Survive Space Attack Exodus Fleet Star Trek Catan Cosmic Encounter Savage Worlds - The Last Parsec RPG Starfinder RPG Trav...
GSL 18: Geography (REBROADCAST)
May 14, 2019 22:02 - 48.6 MBIn Games in Schools and Libraries #18 Giles and Don discuss games and geography, from maps and keys to geopolitics and topography. This episode was originally hosted by the Games for Educators Website. After listening to this episode go check them out. http://g4ed.com/ Games in Schools and Libraries is produced by Inverse Genius in association with Georgetown County Library System. Games in Schools and Libraries Guild at Board Game Geek Email us: [email protected]
GSL 125: Teaching Science Through Games
April 30, 2019 12:00 - 43.8 MBIn Games in Schools and Libraries #125 Catherine Croft joins Kathleen Mercury to talk about designing games to help teach science concepts, and how other teachers can design games for their own classrooms. Catherine Croft, PhD, Catherine was neuroscience researcher before she began teaching high school science and designing games. Catherine’s fun, classroom-friendly games, are available through her company, Catlilli Games. http://catlilli.com/about-us/our-team/ Games in Schools an...
GSL 17: Care of Games (REBROADCAST)
April 23, 2019 16:12 - 37.5 MBIn Games in Schools and Libraries Giles and Don discuss the care of games. From looking after video games and electronic devices, to bags, tape and elastic bands for board games, as well as the routines that can help maintain good quality and extend the life of a games collection. This episode was originally hosted by the Games for Educators Website. After listening to this episode go check them out. http://g4ed.com/ Games in Schools and Libraries is produced by Inverse Genius in associat...
GSL 124: Endangered
April 16, 2019 13:00 - 23.6 MBMarc Specter of the Grand Gamers Guild joins Donald Dennis to talk about Endangered, a project now on Kickstarter. Endangered is a game of survival by Joe Hopkins where players work together to save earth's endangered species. Schools and Libraries are both eligible for the Endangered Activist tier, allowing your institutions to get a great deal on this beautiful game. Grand Gamers Guild Web Site: https://grandgamersguild.com/ Twitter @GrndGmrsGld Facebook: Grand Gamers Guild Kick...
GSL 123: From Gamer Scientist to Scientist Game Designer
April 08, 2019 16:55 - 28.6 MBJohn Coveyou of Genius Games joins Kathleen Mercury to talk about his games, how he designs them, and how teachers and libraries can use them in the classroom. This episode is posted a few days early so you have the chance to check out the Nerd Words Kickstarter campaign before it has ended. John Coveyou, former science teacher at the middle, high, and collegiate levels, formed Genius Games to bring scientifically accurate and fun games to the classroom. @JohnCoveyou https://www.gen...
GSL 122: ShushCon 2019 Debrief
April 04, 2019 16:36 - 36.3 MBIn Games in Schools and Libraries episode 122, Donald and Chris talk about their ShushCon experience; what when right and what they hope to improve on next year. Story Games Workshop Check out the Slides Companies that supported the Workshop Smirk and Laughter - Before there were Stars Hub Games - Untold Adventures Await Atlas Games - Once Upon A Time Brotherwise Games - Call to Adventure Pharaoh’s Challenge MAZES The RPG of Dice, Danger, and Dungeons via Kickstarter Swarmcast ...
GSL 121: Designing Analog Games as part of a Video Game Curriculum
March 15, 2019 18:08 - 49.4 MBKathleen talks to Jay Cormier, a prolific game designer who teaches analog game design as part of a video game design program, and how to teach a lot of big ideas in a short amount of time. Jay Cormier @bamboozlebros failfaster.ca bamboozlebrothers.com https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/burntislandgames/in-the-hall-of-the-mountain-king https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/828934174/fail-faster-the-playtesting-journal Exact Instructions Challenge https://youtu.be/cDA3_5982h8 A...
GSL 16: Games And Art (REBROADCAST
February 27, 2019 16:55 - 42.3 MBIn this rebroadcast of Games in Schools and Libraries episode 16 Giles and Don discuss games and art. Games that can be used to stimulate discussion on art, games that use art to evoke a theme, and games that involve the players creating art. Games Discussed Dixit Middle Earth The Collectible Card Game CCGs Civilization Pastiche Fresco Sienna The Road to Canterbury Telestrations Pictionary Draw Something Cluzzle Monster Squash Clay-o-rama This episode was orig...
GSL 120: Wargames as Instructional Tools at the US Air Force Academy
February 20, 2019 17:01 - 38.5 MBIn episode 120 of Games in Schools and Libraries Kathleen talks to Lt. Colonel James "Pigeon" Fielder about his design and use of wargames at the US Air Force from classroom exercises to massive military simulations. Lt Col James “Pigeon” Fielder, Ph.D. USAF Associate Professor of Political Science at the U.S. Air Force Academy and an active duty U.S. Air Force officer. https://www.linkedin.com/in/jdfielder/ https://jdfielder.com/ @j_d_fielder http://shushcon.com Games in Schoo...
GSL 15: Gamification (REBROADCAST)
February 14, 2019 16:32 - 43.4 MBRebroadcast Episode In this rebroadcast of Games in Schools and Libraries episode 15 Giles and Don discuss discuss the gamification of the classroom, and our experiences with this topic. This episode was originally hosted by the Games for Educators Website. After listening to this episode go check them out. http://g4ed.com/ Games in Schools and Libraries is produced by Inverse Genius in association with Georgetown County Library System. Games in Schools and Libraries Guild at Board Ga...
GSL 119: Designing Meaningful Games for an Older Audience
February 07, 2019 20:43 - 50.9 MBIn Games in Schools and Libraries 119 Kathleen talks to Bob De Schutter, the C. Michael Armstrong Professor at the Armstrong Institute for Interactive Media Studies at Miami University in Ohio. Dr. De Schutter talks about his research in games for and about older adults, creating ga ming experiences around memories of older adults, (highlighting his current project, Brukel, based on his Belgian grandmother's reminiscences about World War II), and why older adults need to be gamers. Profes...
GSL 118: Con Jobbing
January 31, 2019 15:00 - 38.4 MBIn Games in Schools and Libraries 118 Donald Dennis and Chris Bell talk about the upcoming ShushCon story game workshop, and their experiences at SCARAB 2019. ShushCon http://shushcon.com ShushCon Trade Day - March 22, 2019 Terrain Making Workshop - Feb 3, 2019 Lock Paper Scissors Reviews https://lockpaperscissors.co Lost Mummy Escape Room Z SCARAB http://www.s-c-a-r-a-b.com/ Hitting conventions to advertise your own gaming events and activities. RPGs we experi...
GSL 117: Utilizing Simulations in the Classroom
January 26, 2019 16:52 - 45.4 MBKathleen talks with Jeremy Caddel and David Thomcyzk about using simulations in their collegiate classes (political science and entrepreneurship, respectively), as well as Kathleen's experiences running a large-scale simulation at the NASAGA convention, and lessons learned. http://nasaga.org/ Jeremy Caddel [email protected] https://pages.wustl.edu/caddel @jeremycaddel David Tomcyzk [email protected] https://www.qu.edu/student-resources/directory/staff.56685.html Game...
GSL 13: Reason (REBROADCAST)
January 10, 2019 15:58 - 29.8 MBRebroadcast Episode In this rebroadcast of Games in Schools and Libraries episode 13 Giles and Don discuss discuss using games in a school or library with a reason or purpose in mind. This episode was originally hosted by the Games for Educators Website. After listening to this episode go check them out. http://g4ed.com/ Games in Schools and Libraries is produced by Inverse Genius in association with Georgetown County Library System. Games in Schools and Libraries Guild at Board Game ...
GSL 116: Into the Gaslands
December 16, 2018 20:24 - 20.5 MBGaslands in Action In Games in Schools and Libraries episode 116 Donald Dennis and Chris Bell talk about what’s been going on in the library lately. First the pair discuss the Gaslands, a miniatures game that uses Hot Wheels scale vehicles, from Osprey Games. They touch on how it plays as well as customizing cars, making terrain, and how they are using it at the library. Forge Three Keys to win! Next they talk about Keyforge, a unique deck game by Richard Garfield. After talking...
GSL 115: Converting Games Into Instructional Tools
November 07, 2018 16:03 - 43.7 MBIn Games in Schools and Libraries episode 115, Converting Games Into Instructional Tools, gamification expert Jon Cassie speaks with Kathleen about gamification of instruction as well as reward systems, and how to help non-gaming colleagues to gamify their instruction. Jon Cassie BGG: joncassie Twitter: @joncassie Web sites: www.joncassie.com www.gamelevellearn.com Podcast: Game Level Learn Games in Schools and Libraries is produced in association with Inverse Genius and the...
GSL 114: Reviews with Donald and Chris
November 02, 2018 16:40 - 25 MBThe Mind In Games in Schools and Libraries #114 Donald and Chris review games that have hit the table at the Waccmaw Neck Branch Library in Pawleys Island. Ghost Stories Games Reviewed Ghost Stories Tower of Madness The Game - The Game on Fire Dude - More Dude Nut so Fast Warsaw City in Ruins Thanos Rising The Tower of Madness Thanos Rising Games in Schools and Libraries is produced in association with Inverse Genius and the Georgetown County Library System. Games in Schools...
GSL 113: Gamification as a Teaching Mindset
October 26, 2018 19:51 - 30.7 MBIn Games in Schools and Libraries episode 113 Kathleen speaks with Dave Eng, an educator and consultant, about gamification mindsets, or approaches to designing instruction to generate specific outcomes using gaming elements. Dave Eng BGG: https://boardgamegeek.com/user/notdaveng Twitter: https://twitter.com/davengdesign Web site URL: http://www.davengdesign.com/ Podcast/blog/etc: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davengdesign Games in Schools and Libraries is produced in association wit...
GSL 14: Events (Rebroadcast)
October 17, 2018 22:52 - 36 MBIn this rebroadcast of Games in Schools and Libraries episode 14 Giles and Don discuss game events they have run, and some of the things to consider when running events in schools or libraries. This episode was originally hosted by the Games for Educators Website. After listening to this episode go check them out. http://g4ed.com/ Games in Schools and Libraries is produced by Inverse Genius in association with Georgetown County Library System. Games in Schools and Libraries Guild at Boa...
GSL 112: Microscope and the Persistent RPG
October 10, 2018 18:43 - 14.7 MBIn episode 112 of Games in Schools and Libraries Donald Dennis and Chris Bell talk about the new recurring Saturday RPG program they are starting at the library in Pawleys Island. http://www.lamemage.com/microscope/ http://www.dungeon-world.com/ https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/137012/Funnel-World Games in Schools and Libraries is produced in association with Inverse Genius and the Georgetown County Library System. Games in Schools and Libraries Guild at Board Game Geek Email ...
GSL 111: Developing Literacy Skills Using Games
October 05, 2018 02:28 - 55.3 MBIn Games in Schools and Libraries episode 111 Kathleen speaks with Sarah Bonilla about her work incorporating games and game design to teach reading and writing skills as part of her 6th grade English classes. Sarah Bonilla 6th Grade Literacy & Science Teacher at South Park Middle School (Oshkosh, WI) Twitter: @adventgeekgirl Instagram: adventgeekgirl BoardGameGeek: adventgeekgirl e-mail: [email protected] website: adventgeekgirl.blogspot.com Sarah hosts a seminar on Tablet...
GSL 110: Moonrise over Pawleys Island
September 26, 2018 15:00 - 12.8 MBChris Bell or the command center from Kerbal Space Program? You may never know. In Games in Schools and Libraries 110 Donald Dennis and Chris Bell talk about the new Moonrise: Phases of Innovation grant and how that space technology oriented grant will be facilitated through gaming activities. Games Mentioned Fiasco Starfinder Kerbal Space Program //Code Rover Terraforming Mars Oculus Rift Star Trek Bridge Crew Space Engineers Games in Schools and Libraries is produced in ...
GSL 109: Board Games Through a Video Game Designer's Lens
September 19, 2018 17:33 - 40.4 MBIn episode 109 of Games in Schools and Libraries Stone Librande Stone Librande, video game designer (EA SimCity, Riot Games) joins Kathleen Mercury to share his insights from teaching tabletop game design to video game designers and lessons learned from designing for his kids. Stone Librande @StoneLibrande stonetronix.com Games in Schools and Libraries is produced in association with Inverse Genius and the Georgetown County Library System. Games in Schools and Libraries Guild at ...
GSL 108: Trivia Game Replacement
September 12, 2018 15:00 - 16.1 MBIn episode 108 of Games in Schools and Libraries Donald Dennis and Stephanie Frey talk about trivia games, and what games have replaced Trivia Pursuit. Timelines / Cardlines Wits & Wagers / Say Anything / Happy Birthday Bezzerwizzer Terra / Fauna Apples to Apples Games in Schools and Libraries is produced in association with Inverse Genius and the Georgetown County Library System. Games in Schools and Libraries Guild at Board Game Geek Email us: [email protected] The ...
GSL 12: Spatial Games (REBROADCAST)
September 05, 2018 22:50 - 21.2 MBIn this rebroadcast of Games in Schools and Libraries, episode 12, Giles and Don talk about spatial games. Games all about shapes, space and thinking spatially. This episode was originally hosted by the Games for Educators Website. After listening to this episode go check them out. http://g4ed.com/ Games in Schools and Libraries is produced by Inverse Genius in association with Georgetown County Library System. Games in Schools and Libraries Guild at Board Game Geek Email us: schoolsandli...
GSL 11: Social Interaction (REBROADCAST)
August 10, 2018 15:00 - 45.3 MBIn this rebroadcast of Games in Schools and Libraries, episode 11, Giles Pritchard and Donald Dennis talk about talk about games that are great for social interaction! This episode was originally hosted by the Games for Educators Website. After listening to this episode go check them out. http://g4ed.com/ Games in Schools and Libraries is produced by Inverse Genius in association with Georgetown County Library System. Games in Schools and Libraries Guild at Board Game Geek Email us: schoo...
GSL 107: Glowforge and Ravenloft
August 03, 2018 16:05 - 24.6 MBGlowforge scan and cut samples In Games in Schools and Libraries 107 Donald and Stephanie talk about the new Glowforge that has arrived at the Waccamaw Neck Branch Library, and about running long campaigns for your patrons. Glowforge https://glowforge.com/ https://glowforge.us/PPBKNFNY https://www.thingiverse.com/ Curse of Strahd Strahd product overview Games in Schools and Libraries is produced in association with Inverse Genius and the Georgetown County Library System. Games i...
GSL 106: My Little Cloud Dungeon
July 27, 2018 19:02 - 18.9 MBIn episode 106 of Games in Schools and Libraries Donald Dennis and Stephanie Frey talk about bringing The Cloud Dungeon and My Little Pony: Tails of Equestria into the library.
GSL 105: Lucas Gillispie
July 20, 2018 15:00 - 38.8 MBIn episode 105 of Games in Schools and Libraries Lucas Gillispe joins Kathleen Mercury to discuss professional development & administrator support for games in school programs Lucas Gillispie Surry County Schools Director of Academic and Digital Learning @lucasgillispie edurealms.com Games in Schools and Libraries is produced in association with Inverse Genius and the Georgetown County Library System. Games in Schools and Libraries Guild at Board Game Geek Kathleen's resources http...
GSL 104: Matthew Bivens
July 13, 2018 19:53 - 47.4 MBMatthew Bivens, an art teacher in California, joins Kathleen Mercury to talk about Game Design as part of an Arts Cirriculum. Matthew T. Bivens https://www.facebook.com/matthew.t.bivens https://twitter.com/BivensArtClass Games in Schools and Libraries is produced in association with Inverse Genius and the Georgetown County Library System. Games in Schools and Libraries Guild at Board Game Geek Kathleen's resources https://www.kathleenmercury.com/ Email us: [email protected]...
GSL 103: Managing a Group of Kids
June 12, 2018 16:29 - 42.4 MBHow do you manage a group of kids in a games program if you're not a teacher? In Games in Schools and Libraries. episode 103, Kevin Crowther and Kathleen Mercury help Adrienne Ezell prepare for leading a games program at her local library. Kevin Crowther http://thecardboardjungle.libsyn.com/ www.hexagram63gamesstudio.com On twitter @cbj_kevin Email [email protected] and [email protected] Adrienne Ezell Art Director and Graphic Designer for hobby games. Designer of ...
GSL 102: Gigamic Road Show
June 01, 2018 16:01 - 16.4 MBIn Games in Schools and Libraries #102 Nate Scheidler of Gigamic World joins Donald Dennis to talk about how and why Gigamic is reaching out to schools and libraries in a very direct and personal way. If you like games check the routes listed below to see if he will be near your school or library with a large selection of Giant Gigamic Games. Nate Scheidler US Marketing Manager [email protected] (773) 992 6921 Web: http://en.gigamic.com Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Gigamic...
GSL 101: Games and Leadership
May 26, 2018 14:26 - 56.3 MBIn Games in Schools and Libraries 101 JS Bragg and Bethany MacMillan join Kathleen Mercury talk about how they teach a course on leadership at Miami University of Ohio using board games. Bethany MacMillan Coordinator of Student Activities, Miami University Middletown Campus Facebook: GamingGirl.Bethany (message me also to tell me who you are, please) Email: JS Bragg Assistant Director, Student Activities & The Cliff Alexander Office of Fraternity & Sorority Life, Miami University Twitter,...
GSL 10: Story Telling Games (REBROADCAST)
May 19, 2018 13:28 - 26.1 MBIn this rebroadcast of Games in Schools and Libraries, episode 10, Giles Pritchard and Donald Dennis talk about story telling games. What games are great for story telling, and how can they find a place in the classroom or at the library. This episode was originally hosted by the Games for Educators Website. After listening to this episode go check them out. http://g4ed.com/ Games in Schools and Libraries is produced by Inverse Genius in association with Georgetown County Library System. ...
GSL 9: Games and Books (REBROADCAST)
May 11, 2018 15:58 - 33.4 MBIn this rebroadcast of Games in Schools and Libraries Episode 9: Games and Books, Giles Pritchard and Donald Dennis talk about books and games. Books that are about games, like Orson Scott Cards Enders Game, and games that tie into popular book franchises, like The Lord of the Rings and others. This episode was originally hosted by the Games for Educators Website. After listening to this episode go check them out. http://g4ed.com/ Games in Schools and Libraries is produced by Inverse Geni...
GSL 100: Games as a Vehicle for STEM Education
May 04, 2018 15:01 - 48.9 MBIn Games in Schools and Libraries #100 Ian Zang Joins Kathleen Mercury to discuss the difference between STEM learning vs. STEM jobs and how that relates to 21st century education. Ian Zang @Ianzangdesign Breaking into Board Games @breakingintobg Ian's Games Constellations Curio: The Lost Temple Games in Schools and Libraries is produced in association with Inverse Genius and the Georgetown County Library System. Games in Schools and Libraries Guild at Board Game Geek Kathleen'...
GSL 99: ShushCon 2018 Debrief
April 27, 2018 17:11 - 43.1 MBSaturday at ShushCon 2018 In Games in Schools and Libraries episode 99 Donald Dennis and Stephanie Frey discuss the long weekend of ShushCon 2018, including the associated Librarian Training Day they hosted. Librarian Computational Thinking Activity Training What is computational thinking? Behold the glory of the Code-A-Pillar Games & Activities Discussed Think & Learn Code-A-Pillar Let's Go Code! Activity Set Future Coders: Robot Races Future Coders: Bunny Trails Code & Go Robot Mo...
GSL 98: Using Games to Teach History
April 20, 2018 21:44 - 56.4 MBIn Games in Schools and Libraries 98, Patrick Rael joins Kathleen Mercury to talk about using games to teach history. [email protected] http://www.bowdoin.edu/faculty/prael/ Games in Schools and Libraries is produced in association with Inverse Genius and the Georgetown County Library System. Games in Schools and Libraries Guild at Board Game Geek Kathleen's resources https://www.kathleenmercury.com/ Email us: [email protected] The ideas expressed by libraries included i...
GSL 97: ALA Midwinter 2018
April 13, 2018 17:11 - 26.4 MBIn Games in Schools and Libraries 97 Stephanie Frey joins Donald Dennis to talk about her ALA Midwinter 2018 experiences. RTC Cohort http://www.ala.org/tools/readytocode Midwinter Highlights NC WIT - National Center for Women & Informational Technology https://www.ncwit.org HOMAGO - Guidebook CS/CT +x Google Applied Digital Skills https://applieddigitalskills.withgoogle.com Getting good stats Talk Back Boards https://www.pinterest.com/EHeumannGurian/audience-responses-talk-back-bo...
GSL 96: Resilience Through Game Design
April 06, 2018 15:10 - 43 minutes - 33.7 MBWhat is resilience, and how does gaming help students and teachers develop it?
GSL 95: Narrative in Games with Andrew Parks
March 16, 2018 15:00 - 1 hour - 53.6 MBIn Games in Schools and Libraries episode 95 Andrew Parks joins Kathleen Mercury to talk about the value of narrative in games.
GSL 94: The Benefits of Tabletop and Digital Game Design
March 09, 2018 16:00 - 58 minutes - 46.6 MBAngie Hoffman and Kathleen Mercury talk about the benefits of all kinds of game design, from digital to tabletop.
GSL 93: Mayday Games
March 02, 2018 17:00 - 58 minutes - 47.2 MBIn Games in Schools and Libraries 93 Donald Dennis and Daniel Peterson of Mayday Games talk about the appeal of family games and how they make a good core to a collection, giving it a good foundation to grow from. Also, why shouldn't you just fill up your library game collection with your favorite games? Daniel Peterson Daniel Peterson Daniel on Facebook Mayday Games @maydaygames Games in Schools and Libraries is produced in association with Inverse Genius and the Georgetown...
GSL 92: Hub Games
February 16, 2018 15:00 - 1 hour - 58 MBDonald Dennis, Kathleen Mercury, Michael Fox talk about how Hub Games might be useful in schools and libraries.
GSL 91: RTC John Aromando
February 09, 2018 19:22 - 10.4 MBIn this episode John Aromando joins Donald Dennis to talk about bringing coding activities into the library.
GSL 90: SCARAB 2018
January 20, 2018 14:22 - 24.9 MBIn Games in Schools and Libraries episode 90 Donald Dennis and Stephanie Frey talk about their experiences taking gaming on the road. Over the course of SCARAB 2018, in Columbia SC, Stephanie ran more than 120 people through escape rooms and Donald ran a wide variety of RPGs. The pair also competed in the RPG Pharaoh's Challenge, taking first and second place for Game Mastering excellence. As you can tell it was a long weekend, and they really hadn't recovered when they recorded this epis...
GSL 89: Ctrl, Alt, Decode
January 12, 2018 18:11 - 47.2 MBIn Games in Schools and Libraries episode 89 Donald and Stephanie talk about what they've been doing in their library for the Libraries Ready to Code grant, and reflect on related programs they had offered their patrons before they'd even applied for the grant. RTC Activities Escape Room Design Board Game Design CS First Video Game Design Web Site Design Game Instruction Magic the Gathering Game Reviews Some games that focus on teaching principles of coding and computational th...