EdTech Loop Ep. 94 - The Light Side of Data

Last week we discussed COPPA and the thousands of data points children create just by living and using our personal devices. Students also create data points at school which we hope to use to support teachers in helping those students achieve at their very best. It comes in many forms. You have SAT data, mandated state reporting data, but you also have a kindergarten student identifying colors, that's data, too. It's everywhere.

 

TechTool of the Week:

Copyrighteous Podcast

 

Full Transcript

Larry Burden 0:00
big theme that no one's gonna get

Larry Burden 0:07
Think Twilight Zone, and then you lose faith in humanity.

Andy Phillips 0:11
It sounds uplifting.

Larry Burden 0:11
It's fun for me,

Danelle Brostrom 0:12
it's very interesting.

Andy Phillips 0:15
It's my favorite of all time.

Larry Burden 0:22
It's Episode 94 of the EdTech Loop podcast. My name is Larry Burden and her midi-chlorian count is off the charts it's Danelle Brostrom, and also joining us, the TCAPS Yoda of data, Mr. Andy Phillips. We've learned to trust our feelings, which has revealed this week's moment of Zen

Moment of Zen 0:40
Pass on what you have learned, strength, mastery, but weakness, folly, failure, also yes, failure.

Larry Burden 0:50
Stay for some soup, you must, if you are to partake in this week's meat of the show, the light side of data. So, last week, last week's episode, we had, we had kind of a darker, maybe a little darker..

Danelle Brostrom 1:05
It wasn't dark it was informative,

Larry Burden 1:06
it was informative, but we kind of talked about data and how maybe the privacy of our children can be invaded and some of, some data points regarding them might be used for a less than helpful purpose in their life. We wanted to have, Mr. Phillips on here, Andy on to discuss what our school districts do with data that can really help them really achieve and grow in their learning. So with that being said, How are we using student data.

Andy Phillips 1:40
First Larry, let me, let me say that I did listen to last week's podcast. Larry and I had a brief conversation last night at an organization outside of school. And we talked about, COPPA, which, which I learned about listening to the podcast. I also, it was awesome because I was picking up my kid from gymnastics, which is where I saw Larry, and to listen to the podcast and the amount of time it took me to get home, I listened to it I'm double speed.

Danelle Brostrom 2:07
Nice.

Larry Burden 2:08
Very high voices.

Andy Phillips 2:10
It was awesome, yes. And because I know both of you have made it way more entertaining.

Danelle Brostrom 2:13
It makes me talk even faster.

Andy Phillips 2:16
And my daughter was freaked out by it to.

Danelle Brostrom 2:17
Okay, I'm gonna do that.

Andy Phillips 2:19
So I did listen to it and it was interesting that we call, to me that's, that's data. Yeah, I get it. And you guys talking about the thousands of data points that are out there just by basically living, not doing anything crazy high tech all the time, just living and using your personal devices creates all these data points. Well students have data points to and that's what we'll talk about today, I would assume is how we use student, like, assessment type data which comes in all sorts of forms. So how do we use it? It goes from school board reporting, state reporting, to the best use of data, which is teachers using it to help their students achieve at their very best. So that's a broad question, but that's a super, super broad answer that's how we use it, and it comes, you know, it's all sorts of forms. You have SAT data, which is college entrance and it's also mandated state reporting data, but you also have a kindergarten student identifying colors, that's data, too. Because of that student can identify colors and the teacher sees that, well, that student needs work on colors or patterns or shapes or whatever. So it's everywhere.

Larry Burden 3:31
You just kind of have, you know, pretty much answer the second question, but I want to go a little bit deeper so the next question was what data is being collected? And you kind of did it broadly. On a district level and in the classroom level what are we, what are we targeting? What kind of data is targeted by the district? 'Cuz I think that's, as you said, we're always collecting data. Every teachers is in the classroom collecting data, it's called observation. What data are we then trying to track and really use? Because I think one of the neat things that we're doing, you know, the Blueprint to some extent is really going on here what data is useful, and then kind of focusing and tracking that. What kind of are some of those things that oh, this is what we really want to key in on?

Andy Phillips 4:13
First of all, if it's not useful, and we don't have to do it, we shouldn't do it. That's, that's the bottom line Danelle's nodding.

Danelle Brostrom 4:20
Write that down. Say that again for the people in the back.

Andy Phillips 4:22
Right, and that's something that we have worked on with teams. And an example of that is we've taken away a lot of assessments for, that were required in the elementary world that we just weren't using and teachers weren't using. And if they were using they still have the option of, of doing it, right. From the district level, we use the summative data the most: MSTEP, PSAT, SAT, NWEA, and I'm excited with this new data tool that Danelle, and I went to a thing on OTUS which compiles these data points together. So, last week at Traverse Heights, when they had their half-day release-day, probably for the first time, maybe, maybe not for the first time ever, but the first, for the first time without doing hours and hours of laborious cutting and pasting, I was able to show a fifth grade teacher, here are your students last four NWEA scores along with their two last M-STEP scores. So that teacher can then narrow down, these are my real bubble students. Because this student was proficient in M-STEP math last year but not this year, and NWEA scores indicate that the student has a shot at being proficient on M-STEP. What does she do with that data, she's aware, that's the most important thing in my opinion. She's just aware so that she just holds that student to this higher standard knowing that, yeah, your track record says, you can do it and you'll be a needle mover for our school. The more local it can be the better. Anything is data. You said it, observations are data and oftentimes teachers don't remember that or recognize that as being as important as some of this other stuff. I think another theme I say all the time whenever I'm working with teachers is you always should have a reason for what you're doing, and there should be some sort of output. And the reason for what you're doing is usually, whatever the assessment is going to be, right? So whatever that is, you should be using it to gauge how closely, students are coming into whatever the learning target is. I had a Moment of Zen moment. I did a...

Larry Burden 6:18
Only if it's a Yoda quote because that's what I was going with

Andy Phillips 6:20
It's not Yoda

Danelle Brostrom 6:22
Listened to last weeks pod and has a Moment of Zen, you need to come back often.

Andy Phillips 6:24
I've got a couple of them. Just because I, the Moments of Zen, make me laugh every time that I hear them. This is a good one. It's not Star Wars though, it's from Mark Twain

Moment of Zen 6:37
Data is like garbage. Better know what you're going to do with it before you collect it.

Andy Phillips 6:43
Are you going to put sound effects in there

Larry Burden 6:44
100% hundred percent. I might even change your voice, put you on half speed. Well, we have the data. We know how it's being collected. How are we communicating those findings with teachers? How are we making it useful? We have these, these points, these tools. We have the data, as you said, we want to know what we're going to do with it. So how are we communicating that?

Andy Phillips 7:07
Yeah. The more the teacher can own the data, the better. but there are so many, so many different areas that that data is located. That sometimes...

Larry Burden 7:18
Let's start at the district level and go down.

Andy Phillips 7:19
It can be a roadblock. Okay, well I'm thinking of how do we get this data to teachers. So NWEA is a really good example. Many teachers, probably most teachers, maybe even all teachers are pretty savvy at manipulating the NWEA Data Warehouse website. So they go on and probably look at a quadrant report which is maybe the best thing that...

Danelle Brostrom 7:38
I agree.

Andy Phillips 7:38
teachers can look at as far as just like a balcony view. But teachers are doing that themselves. It's not like, I mean some principals might give teachers a copy of maybe they're quite a report, but it's all about the teacher being able to mine it. And then, you know, as far as other data points go. It's just a matter of how savvy teachers are themselves at mining into it. Like I'm thinking another really rich source of data is Think Central, because we do all sorts of assessments on Think Central. But if the teacher isn't savvy about how to get in there and do it, and really look at the results, you can see results by Common Core State Standards in Think Central, but it takes some clicks to get there and often that can be a roadblock.

Larry Burden 8:20
I'm sorry to interrupt, what is Think Central?

Andy Phillips 8:23
It's the online testing tool that's our big publishing company for elementary reading and math. It's where all the assessments are housed, and kids take the tests through Think Central. So unit tests, passage tests, those kinds of things.

Larry Burden 8:42
So it's not all over the place. They're not having to search and...

Andy Phillips 8:44
Right, but the more savvy you are. So Danelle can speak to this too because there are teachers out there that get just gobs of really good information, and so when it comes time for something like report cards. Teachers can pull these really great reports, by doing smart things from Think Central, but their, I would say more savvy at being able to use it. And it definitely has, just like everything else, a personality to it. And sometimes it doesn't always, you know, work like we want it to work and whatever. But if you're less savvy, you're just probably doing what the minimum requirements are, and then what happens is the data? Probably not much.

Larry Burden 9:21
As a Tech Coach, what are you finding regarding Think Central and that usability, what questions are you being asked Danelle?

Danelle Brostrom 9:28
I love that we're at the point where we're asking these questions, frankly. I love that education is at this point where we're saying, how am I going to use this data today to make changes to my instruction tomorrow. And if I'm not using the data let's get rid of it. And how do I question what I'm giving the kids to decide whether it's actually going to make a difference or not. Like, I love that we're at a point in education where we're doing that. Because the beginning of my career, we weren't. We were still just following what we were supposed to be doing. We weren't, we weren't giving it that extra piece of thought, and using the data in this way. So I love that we're here. I totally agree with Andy. I think it just depends on the teachers comfort level with using that data. We've, we've done a really good job at collecting it but I think that next piece, and this is the same everywhere, I think that next piece of actually how to use that data to change your instruction is where we're at. I think we're doing, we're making strides with that every day.

Andy Phillips 10:18
One more thing to that I think is really important and relevant to this part of any kind of data conversation is that it shouldn't just be used, like for, for individual students, and individual student growth. And a lot of my work, probably my favorite part of my work, is when a teacher has a really good idea, and wants to try something in his or her classroom. You can use data to see if something is working or not. Instead of thinking how am I going to look at it today, to adjust for tomorrow. You can think of it, what do I want the data to show based on my hypothesis that this will be a needle mover for students. And so setting these goals then looking back, like holistically at, did this work. To either validate or to say you have to change what I thought wasn't going to work. That's another really powerful use of it, and that's another thing that wasn't really happening I don't think when we all started in this field. We would do something, and it basically sunsetted when the material got old or things ran its course. And we would maybe try something different and the only thing we had to prove anything might be MEAP scores or something like that. And even then, it was so, so in the past, whatever that data was that you can make..

Larry Burden 11:33
The MEAP was always well behind and not useful.

Andy Phillips 11:35
And the MSTEP continues to be. So we have all this data that's now in real time. But, I just wanted to put that in here that, that's another thing that teachers need to be empowered to use it for decision making for, for things that they, they think about. Just it's all over the place, when a teacher has an idea, and we can actually give it a shot and pilot something, the pilot comes along with, well what are the expectations, and if we don't meet those expectations we have to go back to either the way it was or rethink.

Danelle Brostrom 12:02
I think it's exciting for teachers because I think things are more concrete. It's not just kind of like oh, it feels like it's, it's, it's okay it's working.

Larry Burden 12:10
Driving down the road without headlights on.

Danelle Brostrom 12:11
Yeah, it feels more concrete and it's exciting for students because it's definitely we're doing things that are making a difference.

Larry Burden 12:17
What's the most striking or surprising piece of data that you've run into since you've been here?

Andy Phillips 12:24
Larry that would have been a great way to give me a heads up on before

Danelle Brostrom 12:25
Tough question, wow.

Larry Burden 12:25
I thought about it.

Andy Phillips 12:30
The most surprising thing to me was that, and continues to be that data is located in so many different places. And you really have to work to try to make sense of it for whatever different stakeholder group that you work with. Gosh, I'd say the most interesting thing and it probably was the same thing before I, before I came and will continue to be because it's like this, this big puzzle. It's really interesting to me that students who may be high achieving on one type of test, or are pretty high achieving like good AB students sometimes are not high achieving on some, like, like an M-STEP or like a PSAT. And so that's something that a lot of curriculum leaders at TCAPS are trying to really hone in on. Which is why I mentioned getting that data all compiled together so we can identify who those students are, and, and hopefully move the needle. But that continues to surprise me. So I just looked at a thing today, that I shared with someone that had a student who scored, like in the 80th percentile in the last iteration of NWEA math, but wasn't proficient on the last iteration of the M-STEP for that student, but was proficient on two years agos M-STEP. That's what's interesting to me. And, just to try to build more consistency in it for students, so that when it comes time to take that 11th grade SAT which is as high stakes as it gets. Because that's the thing that can get kids into college and financial assistance, and to make those more predictable. And, you know, if we can hone in on those types of students and really help them achieve proficiency that's going to be good for everybody.

Larry Burden 14:06
How does the Blueprint help in that communication process, in that finding out what information, what data is useful? You know, that back and forth. It's funny, I hear a lot of your meetings, because you're right next door to my office and I hear some really good discussion about data, how has that...

Andy Phillips 14:25
Do you hear the bad discussions?

Larry Burden 14:25
I put the headphones on.

Andy Phillips 14:25
Yeah, right.

Larry Burden 14:29
How does that, that structure help that dialogue?

Andy Phillips 14:32
Probably the most important thing we do with the Blueprint is something that is just really good practice whether your Blueprint District or not, but the Blueprint forces you to do it, is this thing called Performance Management. So every month the Instruction, Curriculum Instruction Team sits down basically with Principals, sometimes Assistant Principals, sometimes Teacher Leaders from each school, and we go over, basically the balcony view of data. And then Principals and those Teacher Leaders are prompted to have those same discussions with their building networks. Without something like the Blueprint, those things wouldn't be in place to do so regularly. And it just holds you to doing them regularly. And it forces you, and that's a, that's an okay word to use here, it forces you to pick some sort of data to discuss each month. And we have it all laid out. So like, the first month was M-STEP data, because it was September first time we've talked about it, since we came back from summertime. The next month was NWEA holistic proficiency data. This next month is going to be what we can mine out of Think Central. Getting local, talking about student grades with secondaries. But we're kind of forced to stick to the same timelines so that Principals know what to prepare for and so that you know we just don't going to be talking about when each month comes. That's a really powerful part of the Blueprint. It holds you to these things, and it makes you lay it out for the year so that you have something to follow.

Larry Burden 15:54
Teaching students is really complex, and I know in the past, having been some of those meeting, meetings, involving curriculum, it can spiral very quickly into a ton of different topics, and it's really hard to manage a meeting and make sure that you have an outcome that's workable and actionable. It's been interesting to hear those, the meetings, involving the Blueprint, because it always seems like there's something actionable coming out of it that's data driven.

Andy Phillips 16:20
Yep, when we're leading meetings, like we're having a social studies workbook committee that just, I'm organizing the agenda now and there's going to be data in that committee. We're going to put out there our struggling, 5th grade M-STEP Social Studies scores because that's the objective of that group. And that's, there's no reason not to make it the objective. There's no reason not to say that we're coming together, investing in teachers to make the work more robust for students because we think that'll move the needle with M-STEP scores. So yeah, even, even on stuff like that we're bringing data back into the conversation all the time.

Larry Burden 16:53
To tie in what we talked about last week, we are collecting all this data, how are we keeping it safe? And we all look at Danelle?

Andy Phillips 16:59
I learned about COPPA last night, at double speed, in my car so.

Danelle Brostrom 17:07
Well I think currently all the places where we are keeping data we've negotiated the terms of those agreements with those companies so we're good with those. It's all of the random things that we just need to get ahold of.

Larry Burden 17:19
The research has been done, and I think, I bring that up not to do a gotcha, I brought that up to, you know, if there are parents listening to this, to know that the main sources of data that we're using have been vetted.

Danelle Brostrom 17:35
Yes,

Larry Burden 17:35
You know, Danelle's read the,

Danelle Brostrom 17:37
We got you

Larry Burden 17:37
Terms, Danelle's read the policies. We're safe.

Andy Phillips 17:40
Yeah, something that I found interesting coming to TCAPS is we did have a Danelle and we did have this big, fairly large Technology Department that does do all those things. And it took, it takes a minute to get used to all the people that you have to tell, or communicate with of things that you're doing going forward so that people like Danelle can make sure the privacy policy, policy is okay. And if it's not, you know, how can we work, either work through it, or make sure that we adjust whatever our agreement is so that it is ok. So those things do happen sometimes you have to be reminded Oh, you didn't tell so and so and you should have told them in the beginning. Getting better at that.

Larry Burden 18:22
Well I think, I think we do have a bit of a Lone Ranger mentality sometimes in education. And, you know, we go off on our, our tangents. But the structures are there. The structure, structures are in place, not to put a lid on the creativity that's going on in the classroom, they're there to keep us safe in the classroom, and to support the teachers in doing what they could be doing. And making sure that, for instance the, the data that they're collecting from their students is safe and useful as you were saying earlier, you know if we're not using the data that's collected, we probably shouldn't be doing that assessment.

Andy Phillips 18:57
Mark Twain said that.

Larry Burden 19:01
With that, is there anything else Danelle?

Danelle Brostrom 19:04
No.

Larry Burden 19:04
All right. TechTool of the Week

Andy Phillips 19:08
Can I

Larry Burden 19:08
I'm sorry, I'm sorry

Andy Phillips 19:09
I prepared, I prepared, one more quote for this. This is a good Moment to Zen to.

Moment of Zen 19:13
Data will talk to you if you willing to listen.

Andy Phillips 19:16
By some guy named Jim Burgesson. And finally, I like this one too.

Moment of Zen 19:22
If we have data let's look at data, if all we have our opinions. Let's go with mine.

Andy Phillips 19:31
That's a good closing right?

Danelle Brostrom 19:32
That should be one your business card.

Larry Burden 19:33
Yes it should. TechTool of the Week. Beat that, follow that.

Techtool of the Week 19:42
I can't. There is a new podcast out that I'm really enjoying it's called Copyrighteous, and it's by Diana Gill. And what she's doing is kind of awesome. They're called micro podcasts, and they are discussing responsible creativity for educators. So, leading on our privacy and COPPA discussion last week. Her first episode was just a short little five minute snippet where students want to know how to use music safely in a video project. Here's how to use music safely in this video project. I'm really interested to see where this podcast goes because I think anytime we can get those short snippets about digital citizenship and media literacy to our teachers, the better off we are. So keep an eye on this podcast they're doing some pretty cool stuff,

Larry Burden 20:23
How long are they?

Danelle Brostrom 20:24
five minutes, boom, here's your stuff here's what you need to know. So Copyrighteous.

Larry Burden 20:28
Tutorials and updates, really, unbelievably, the TechNollerGist has no new tutorials this week which is the first time I think this year that he hasn't had at least two out. So, come on, come on, David, get busy.

Andy Phillips 20:41
Maybe he should hold one back so he has one in the can

Danelle Brostrom 20:42
Yeah David.

Larry Burden 20:47
Last weekend three, to be honest, so I guess we'll give them a break this time. So really, I was just going to give another shout-out to the COPPA podcast last week I think it was really informative and it would benefit anybody to listen I do believe. So in closing, follow us on Facebook and Twitter @TCAPSLoop

Danelle Brostrom 21:02
@Brostromda

Andy Phillips 21:04
@fishinspartyap

Larry Burden 21:06
All right! Subscribe to the podcast on podbean, iTunes, Stitcher, Tune-in, Downcast, Overcast, the Google Play Store and Spotify or wherever else you get your ear candy. Leave a review, we love the feedback. Thanks for listening and inspiring.

Andy Phillips 21:23
The next time if there's, if there's a focus for it, that would be lovely.

Larry Burden 21:27
Sure.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Music by Podington Bear