There’s one huge structural driver of unsustainability that ecological economists rarely talk about, is fiendishly complex, and deliberately opaque in part to avoid accountability. We’re talking about the financial sector. So we’re happy to welcome Katie Kedward onto the show to help talk us all through the key basics. Katie is a Research Fellow in Sustainable Finance at the Institute for Innovation and Public Purpose at UCL, and we cover issues spanning the role of different actors throughout the financial sector, the limitations of current approaches to reduce its climate and biodiversity impacts, and the role of the state in shaping finance so it works for society. There were some technical difficulties in the recording so apologies for a small change in audio quality during the course of the interview. Sound quality rescued by Editor Aidan Knox.