Economics for Rebels artwork

Economics for Rebels

64 episodes - English - Latest episode: 4 days ago -

The world is on fire. We have to radically and rapidly transform every aspect of society to stay within 1.5 degrees of global warming. How is this possible? And how do we do this in a way that is fair? Ecological economists integrating ecological and critical social perspectives have long been working on ideas to bring about just sustainability transformations. This podcast aims at communicating these ideas in order to open them to critical discussion, from global problems to people’s everyday lives.

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Episodes

Holding Big Oil responsible through climate litigation

March 25, 2024 00:05 - 41 minutes - 95.2 MB

Ecological economists need to pull all sorts of leverage points to enable a just future in which the economy flourishes within planetary boundaries. One of the leverage points that is receiving increasing attention is climate and nature litigation. But what do we as community need to know about climate litigation, historical responsibility for climate change, and how litigation works in practice? We welcome Dr Benjamin Franta onto the show to discuss all things related to climate litigation....

Addicted to Growth - Robert Costanza

March 11, 2024 10:59 - 39 minutes - 90.9 MB

Today’s guest, Robert Costanza is hardly unknown to anyone who is vaguely familiar with ecological economics. While we could fill entire seasons discussing the topics he has covered in his works, in this episode we are discussing his latest book: Addicted to Growth: Societal Therapy for a Sustainable Wellbeing Future where he applies the analogy of addiction to our contemporary problems. Humanity is addicted to economic growth and like true addicts, even if we accept that it is ruining us by...

Employment and work in a postgrowth world - Ben Gallant

February 26, 2024 07:58 - 39 minutes - 90.2 MB

Some key mainstream critiques of postgrowth economics revolve around labour, and what the labour market would look like in a postgrowth economy, with the common perception being that economic contraction tends to be associated with unemployment, and therefore that a postgrowth economy is socially unsustainable. But, if we are to transition to a postgrowth world for ecological reasons or because of secular stagnation, ecological economics needs to present a compelling story about what people’...

Fooling ourselves while burning our trees? - Mary Booth

February 14, 2024 13:43 - 38 minutes - 89.1 MB

Over the last decades, burning wood for energy has expanded in the EU, as have proposals for implementing Bioenergy with Carbon Capture and Storage (BECCS). The origins of this questionable boom can be found in accounting loopholes, which allow burning woody biomass to be classed as carbon neutral and BECCS as carbon negative. Based on these loopholes and large lobby power, (woody) biomass has received generous subsidies and been counted towards renewable energy targets in the EU. A large in...

Where can science and policy making meet? - Eszter Kelemen

January 11, 2024 09:58 - 33 minutes - 76 MB

When it comes to environmental issues, it is crucial that policymakers rely on scientific evidence, while scientists become conscious of how important it is to provide relevant and comprehensive information on their work to policymakers. In our ambiguous post-truth world, this is no trivial challenge. Today’s guest, Eszter Kelemen tells us about the current state of affairs in science-policy interface and the challenges that this encumbered liaison poses not just to both sides but to environ...

Biosphere defenders - Claudia Ituarte-Lima

December 20, 2023 15:20 - 43 minutes - 99.2 MB

Ecological economics has a long tradition of disputing the mainstream economic view that people’s concern for the environment scales with income, and that it’s a luxury good. The main counterargument is the widespread evidence on environmental justice conflicts, encapsulated by what Joan Martinez-Alier called the ‘environmentalism of the poor’. Today, we focus on the role and importance of people working on the front lines of environmental degradation – biosphere defenders. Our guest today i...

Trading irresponsibility: turning environmental policies into gambling casinos - Frederic Hache

December 05, 2023 13:42 - 35 minutes - 80.2 MB

When we say, “Money cannot buy conscience”, in today’s economy, we could not be further from the truth. Our current economy can turn absolutely anything into financial assets. Even irresponsible behaviour. A company that is incapable of reducing its carbon emission can just buy carbon credits and continue business-as-usual. Another that is about to ruin a habitat can offset its wrongdoing by paying money to someone else to save another habitat somewhere else. While these solutions may make b...

Should countries pay for their climate debt?

November 15, 2023 12:14 - 38 minutes - 87.4 MB

There are huge inequalities in the world when it comes to releasing carbon into the atmosphere. Some countries have disproportionately contributed to the climate crisis and keep aggravating their climate debt. In the language of climate coloniality, these countries could owe reparation payments to low-emitting nations. But can we calculate who owes whom how much? And should we calculate it? Today’s guest, Andrew Fanning together with Jason Hickel recently published a paper aiming to answer t...

Why will technology not save our souls? – Timothée Parrique

October 30, 2023 00:13 - 49 minutes - 112 MB

The myth of green growth surrounds us wherever we look. Eco-modernisation’s promise that technological fixes will provide us with the efficiency we need to decouple environmental burdens from economic growth suggests that business-as-usual can continue. Today’s guest Timothée Parrique is the best to explain why this is not happening and why relying solely on technological solutions is like betting on green zero in roulette. Hosted by Alexandra Köves. Edited by Aidan Knox.

How governments can develop the capabilities to solve the 21st century’s sustainability challenges - Rosie Collington

October 17, 2023 08:27 - 38 minutes - 87.6 MB

There’s a long history of states solving major social challenges through ambitious and mission-driven public policy, such as getting a person on the moon, or the foundation of the UK’s national health service. But the last few decades have seen declines in the ambition and entrepreneurship of the state, at a time when global sustainability challenges have called for more and better leadership. How did this happen, why is this a problem for implementing policies consistent with the goals of e...

Can a sustainability transition do justice to the Global South? – Roland Ngam

October 01, 2023 23:24 - 42 minutes - 96.3 MB

The world as we know it now is built on a history of colonisation and even today massive parts of the world are being economically and culturally colonised. Our guest today, Roland Nkwain Ngam believes that hegemonic capitalism is both the creator and consequence of the brutal exploitation of black, brown and white bodies, women’s backs, nature and all the commons that we were all meant to enjoy equally. As the ecological crisis we are witnessing today is a direct consequence of hegemonic ca...

Can a sustainability transition do justice to the Global South? – Roland Gnam

October 01, 2023 23:24 - 42 minutes - 96.3 MB

The world as we know it now is built on a history of colonisation and even today massive parts of the world are being economically and culturally colonised. Our guest today, Roland Nkwain Ngam believes that hegemonic capitalism is both the creator and consequence of the brutal exploitation of black, brown and white bodies, women’s backs, nature and all the commons that we were all meant to enjoy equally. As the ecological crisis we are witnessing today is a direct consequence of hegemonic ca...

Compensating for losses: what you need to know about biodiversity offsetting – Sophus zu Ermgassen

September 18, 2023 10:36 - 37 minutes - 86.5 MB

Currently markets determine most of what happens around us. But markets have no morals: everything is up for grabs. If you have the money, you can turn wetlands, forests, or any other biodiversity rich areas into mono-cultural agricultural lands, human habitats, or mines in the name of development. But can we and should we compensate this by making the developers pay for biodiversity conservation somewhere else? This is the central question around biodiversity offsetting and in his research,...

The next generation: teaching ecological economics - Corinne Baulcomb

June 20, 2023 08:45 - 40 minutes - 93.8 MB

Today’s show is one for the ecological economics lecturers out there – it’s about the joy of teaching ecological economics, the ‘aha’ moments when your students see the world in a new way, and how to teach really really well. We welcome Corinne Baulcomb onto the show, Director of one of Europe’s largest EE programmes at SRUC/University of Edinburgh, sharing her experiences over the last decade of teaching EE’s beautiful ideas to the next generation of thinkers.

Improving the effectiveness of international environmental agreements: lessons from human rights law - Niak Koh

May 30, 2023 10:57 - 27 minutes - 63.3 MB

Various global initiatives have emerged to try to address the degradation of the living world, but despite decades of implementation we’ve had limited success at changing that trajectory. Why? Dr Niak Koh is a sustainability scientist based at the Stockholm Resilience Centre at Stockholm University. In some of her recent work, Niak has focused on what biodiversity agreements can learn from the implementation of international human rights agreements, which have historically been more successf...

Inequality and wellbeing in household consumption - Marta Baltruszewicz

May 07, 2023 23:13 - 34 minutes - 78.4 MB

It is now well-established that contemporary society has finite ecological constraints, and massive inequality in wealth, wellbeing and carbon consumption. But how is the consumption of our shared ecological space distributed across society, and what’s the ecological efficiency through which today’s economy generates improvements in wellbeing? In this episode host, Sophus zu Ermgassen welcomes Dr Marta Baltruszewicz, who has led some fascinating research empirically exploring interlinkages b...

The ecological economics of food systems – Mike Clark

April 23, 2023 22:34 - 35 minutes - 82.1 MB

The fundamental purpose of ecological economics is to deliver an economy that achieves high living standards for all within the constraints of the Earth system. There is arguably no economic sector which is more consequential for this vision than the food system, and perhaps the greatest sustainability challenge of the coming decades is the question of how to deliver quality nutrition for all, whilst minimising the biodiversity and carbon impacts of one of the most ecologically impactful sec...

Just how far is ‘beyond growth’ for policy makers? - Tim Jackson

April 11, 2023 17:10 - 48 minutes - 110 MB

Ecological economics is all about staying within planetary boundaries while providing prosperity for all. This, however, means that we desperately need to transcend both our growth-centred worldview and our fully growth-dependent economic and social systems. The solutions proposed by ecological economics cover messages of true political nature. While bottom-up initiatives are incredibly important in this transition, drastic top-down policy changes would make a massive difference. Our guest t...

Rethinking limits - Giorgos Kallis

March 13, 2023 11:38 - 38 minutes - 87.9 MB

Talking about ecological economics often invokes the mentioning of limits. Ecological and social limits to growth are often brought up in the context where we need to respect these external boundaries and restrain ourselves accordingly. Today’s guest, Giorgos Kallis in his book Limits puts forward an unusual but compelling argument that instead of seeing a world where human wants are unlimited and the environment limits them, we should start seeing a world where human desires are limited, an...

Unconditional Autonomy Allowance and Degrowth – Vincent Liegey

February 26, 2023 23:56 - 39 minutes - 89.5 MB

The sustainability transition ecological economists urge would mean that we radically transform our economies and societies. Such a transformation is not without disruptions and therefore we need tools to make it just. Our guest today, Vincent Liegey argues that the Unconditional Autonomy Allowance, in which all citizens are provided with guarantees to a minimum sustenance without any conditionality is just the tool we need in Degrowth transitions. It not only mitigates the insecurities arou...

An electrifying guide to the ecological economics of energy - Paul Brockway

February 14, 2023 11:34 - 41 minutes - 94.1 MB

A key focus of ecological economics is studying the role of energy in the economy. What role does energy play in economic production? What happens when the economy becomes more energy efficient? What fundamental relationships do the IPCC decarbonisation models get wrong, that leads to radically different visions for how to decarbonise our economies? Join us with Dr Paul Brockway who has spent much of the last decade thinking about the decarbonisation of energy systems for a guide through wha...

What if we thought money was in fact abundant? – Joe Ament

February 06, 2023 07:26 - 42 minutes - 98.4 MB

In our podcast series we have already covered many different perspectives on the necessary transformation of the monetary system to establish an ecologically sustainable and socially just world. Our guest today, Joe Ament argues that thinking about money differently allows us to think differently about sustainability. Much of our worldview on money is that it is a commodity and is therefore limited. Thinking instead that money is a social relation allows us to think of it as something not ph...

Today’s society is built on sand - Aurora Torres

January 16, 2023 01:00 - 32 minutes - 75.3 MB

As of 2020, the physical mass of all the world’s man-made structures exceeded that of all the world’s living things. And there’s raw materials – sand and construction minerals - at the heart of these structures, but we rarely notice them, or think about where they come from. In this episode we speak with Dr Aurora Torres, one of the leading experts in the sustainability implications of society’s hunger for sand and construction minerals, and explore the ecological economics of the sand suppl...

From an empty world to a full world – A tribute to Herman Daly’s work with Dan O’Neill

December 29, 2022 19:32 - 35 minutes - 82 MB

Herman Daly, one of the founders of ecological economics, died on the 28th of October 2022 at the age of 84. His work questioning the pursuit of economic growth and articulating the alternative of a steady-state economy, has been foundational to sustainability science. Daly observed that mainstream economics completely omits the natural world and in reality, the economy is not an isolated system, but a subsystem of the biosphere. All of the resources used by the economy come from the environ...

What ecological economists need to know about the financial sector - Katie Kedward

December 19, 2022 12:32 - 43 minutes - 99.5 MB

There’s one huge structural driver of unsustainability that ecological economists rarely talk about, is fiendishly complex, and deliberately opaque in part to avoid accountability. We’re talking about the financial sector. So we’re happy to welcome Katie Kedward onto the show to help talk us all through the key basics. Katie is a Research Fellow in Sustainable Finance at the Institute for Innovation and Public Purpose at UCL, and we cover issues spanning the role of different actors througho...

Decolonising knowledge production - Brototi Roy

November 17, 2022 12:19 - 32 minutes - 75.3 MB

Ecological economics is about finding ways to achieve environmental and social justice in our sustainability transitions. However, justice is a fragile and ambiguous concept, and it is in the eye of the beholder where it gains meaning. Colonialism did not end with previously colonialised countries gaining their freedom. It lives on in our global culture, economy, social processes and in the perception of self-worth in all of us. Science is no exception. Knowledge production is still vastly b...

The Progress Illusion - Jon Erickson

November 02, 2022 09:17 - 39 minutes - 91.5 MB

In this episode we discuss the history of how neoclassical economics achieved its hegemonic dominance, and the rise of ecological economics as a coherent alternative to the neoclassical paradigm, which is the main focus of Prof Erickson’s new book The Progress Illusion. We pick up stories along the course of Prof Erickson’s journey from neoclassically-trained environmental economist at Cornell, through discussing the emerging concept of natural capital during the fall of Pinochet in Chile, t...

There are no Professorships on a dead planet: discussing the role of academics and universities in tackling climate change - Charlie Gardner

October 16, 2022 23:18 - 46 minutes - 106 MB

Scientists have been warning about the dangers of climate change for decades, but with little success at convincing society to slow the rate of greenhouse gas emissions. Why? What is wrong with the conventional academic’s theory of change, that providing information to key stakeholders will enable more effective climate policymaking? These questions have been central to Dr Charlie Gardner’s career and development, and this conversation tracks his experiences moving from a leading Conservatio...

Debate on green anarchism vs. eco-socialism

October 02, 2022 22:22 - 1 hour - 197 MB

Time and again neoliberal techno-capitalism has demonstrated an inability to address global challenges such as the climate crisis. Two movements, which have been called Green Anarchy and Eco Socialism, share a similar urgency and critique on the role techno-capitalism and fossil capital are playing in global ecocide, but there are substantial differences between them. Green Anarchists and other “small is beautiful” advocates aspire to empower local communities through mutual aid in a decentr...

Debt and inequality in postgrowth economies: lessons from history - Tilman Hartley

September 18, 2022 23:39 - 35 minutes - 31.5 MB

Economies organised around growth experience terrible welfare outcomes when growth rates decline, leading postgrowth economics to study mechanisms for mitigating these impacts. Two of the biggest challenges to postgrowth economics are debt and inequality, both of which are conventionally addressed through economic growth. So how can we study these questions empirically, given economies have consistently been growing since the industrial revolution? Today’s interviewee is Dr Tilman Hartley, a...

Communicating Ecological Economics: There's a hidden ecological economist in all of us - Alexandra Köves

September 05, 2022 08:24 - 39 minutes - 36.5 MB

To see ecological economics implemented in practice at the kind of scale needed to remain within the planet’s safe operating space, ecological economists need to effectively communicate and win the public battle of ideas that underpin what policy paths countries go down. Today’s interviewee is our host Alexandra Köves, who has been publicly communicating the ideas of ecological economics for years as the host of both this show but also one of Hungary’s most popular science podcasts. She talk...

Transforming batshit jobs: Just transition in aviation - Halliki Kreinin and Tahir Latif

June 07, 2022 12:18 - 41 minutes - 38.1 MB

Staying within planetary boundaries means that our consumption patterns must change. This is ever so true when it comes to environmentally highly detrimental activities such as flying. But today’s reasoning goes that if we reduce flying, not only do we give up on enjoyable pursuits as consumers, but we also jeopardise the livelihood of those working in the industry. The work that destroys the environment for the sake of short-term profit is often called a “batshit job”. How can we transform ...

The road ahead: Strategies for socio-economic transformation - Ekaterina Chertkovskaya

May 11, 2022 17:34 - 36 minutes - 33.7 MB

Ecological economics is about socio-ecological transformation. Once we realise that current institutions, norms, and narratives must change, the overarching question remains: how can we change them? Erik Olin Wright was an American sociologist whose work on transforming into post-capitalist societies have impacted many who deal with transcending the mainstream framework. Today’s guest, Ekaterina Chertkovskaya builds on Wright’s ideas when drawing up what she calls a “strategic canvas for Deg...

Radical change: just how radical? - Andreas Malm

April 28, 2022 14:01 - 32 minutes - 30.3 MB

No doubt that ecological economics is about inducing radical change in the world. While that is almost never up for debate in these circles, just how radical is radical remains to be a highly divisive issue. Environmentalist movements had been seen in the past rather peaceful and being rebellious as an ecological economist is more about strongly attacking the current order. In theory. But can profound change really happen without blowing up a pipeline? Today’s guest, Andreas Malm argues that...

'Development': Just a term for upholding power structures? - Bengi Akbulut

April 02, 2022 09:00 - 52 minutes - 48.4 MB

Many believe that wanting the best for both the environment and humans just makes sense. However, when we introduce ecological economics concepts of providing good life for all within planetary boundaries, the most vicious problem that we face is to do with power structures. This episode’s guest, Bengi Akbulut has been arguing that our current understanding of development is detrimental to real change and development is most often just a way to maintain the power structures. Can we change th...

Real valuism: A world beyond money - Anitra Nelson

March 06, 2022 00:00 - 42 minutes - 39.1 MB

Ecological economists all over the world attempt to find the right paths to transcend our currently unsustainable and unjust economic practices. Some are more radical in their proposed measures than others. Today’s guest, Anitra Nelson argues that „monetary values and activities are the key stumbling block to us achieving socio-political and economic justice and sustainability on Earth”. Hence, she proposes to do away with money altogether.

Less is more for more: Degrowth, sustainability and equality - Jason Hickel

February 21, 2022 02:00 - 38 minutes - 35.4 MB

Degrowth is a research field and a social movement that aims to transcend the primacy of economic growth and transition societies to an ecologically more sustainable and socially more just world. Overcoming our environmental sustainability hurdles through mainstream approaches like eco-modernisation does not even try to tackle the problems of social injustices like inequality. Our guest, Jason Hickel argues that the root of environmental and social problems is the same and through Degrowth w...

Working-time reduction: For us or for the planet? - Stefanie Gerold

February 08, 2022 12:44 - 42 minutes - 38.9 MB

In a world where we acknowledge ecological boundaries, consumption patterns must change. Many ecological economists would argue that not only the way we consume but the way we work must also change. Leaving behind the overriding aim of economic growth at all costs means that work needs not only to be perceived differently but also distributed differently. A common suggestion that occurs in these discussions is the necessary reduction of working hours. Stefanie Gerold explains us why.

Rich and famous vouching for change? – On the role of climate elites and philanthropists - Edouard Morena

January 24, 2022 14:10 - 44 minutes - 41.5 MB

More and more of the rich and famous are taking up climate activism and try to convince the world that we all need to act now. But what is their message? Ecological economics is about realising that business-as-usual no longer works. Instead of techno-optimism, we need real system change. But what exactly are climate elites saying? What is the role of philanthropy in climate politics? And how does this all feed into sustainability transitions? Do they help our cause or just defer fundamental...

Are societies better off at the cost of the ecological environment? - Andrew Fanning

November 22, 2021 11:00 - 43 minutes - 40 MB

A common argument in favour of capitalism is that the world has seen unprecedented rise in living standards in the past 200 years: no more dangerous jobs, better access to education and health services, significant drops in the prices of basic provision, higher life expectancy, less famine. So, can we also argue that all this is worth it even at the expense of environmental degradation? Doughnut economics is about finding the right balance: the safe and just space where human societies can o...

The social shortfall and ecological overshoot of nations - Andrew Fanning

November 22, 2021 11:00 - 43 minutes - 40 MB

A common argument in favour of capitalism is that the world has seen unprecedented rise in living standards in the past 200 years: no more dangerous jobs, better access to education and health services, significant drops in the prices of basic provision, higher life expectancy, less famine. So, can we also argue that all this is worth it even at the expense of environmental degradation? Doughnut economics is about finding the right balance: the safe and just space where human societies can o...

Sustainable hedonism - Orsolya Lelkes

November 15, 2021 13:26 - 32 minutes - 29.7 MB

To stay within planetary boundaries, our consumption patterns must change. Could a provocative term like sustainable hedonism help us transform ourselves and our economic realities  towards ecological sustainability while still insisting that we can live a good life? Today’s guest, Orsolya Lelkes certainly believes so.

Ultrasociality: human cooperation at its extreme - Lisi Krall

October 26, 2021 15:39 - 28 minutes - 26.2 MB

Since the establishment of agricultural societies, humans have turned themselves into a super-organism that is now jeopardising not only its own existence but also the survival of many other species. Our capacity to organise ourselves, to divide labour, to even sacrifice individual gains for the benefits of humanity has trapped us in a system that is expansionary and full of co-dependencies. The jury is still out whether we can turn this around and once again become just one of the species t...

Student change agents: Rethinking Economics - J. Christopher Proctor

October 11, 2021 07:15 - 34 minutes - 32.1 MB

Ecological economics is highly critical of mainstream economic thinking and provides new approaches and new solutions to how we could transform our world. However, currently millions of young economists leave their education without even the slightest chance of realising that what they had been offered is a mere indoctrination with mainstream ideas without real critical thinking or alternatives. Today’s guest is J. Christopher Proctor, and we talk about Rethinking Economics and other student...

Humans, values, structures, good science and rebellions in Social Ecological Economics - Clive Spash

September 26, 2021 23:00 - 54 minutes - 50.3 MB

Ecological economics is a field that historically evolved from discourses of people from many disciplines. Finally, ecologists and economists were in dialogue with each other on how to transform the world to respect planetary boundaries. Today’s guest Clive Spash argues, however, that “the importance of social, political, ethical and institutional factors is something which ecologists are not trained to detect, and economists are trained to neglect”. The way forward can only be social ecolog...

Humans, values, structures, good science and rebellions in Social Ecological Economics

September 26, 2021 23:00 - 54 minutes - 50.3 MB

Ecological economics is a field that historically evolved from discourses of people from many disciplines. Finally, ecologists and economists were in dialogue with each other on how to transform the world to respect planetary boundaries. Today’s guest Clive Spash argues, however, that “the importance of social, political, ethical and institutional factors is something which ecologists are not trained to detect, and economists are trained to neglect”. The way forward can only be social ecolog...

Unearned income: Is rentier power a threat to sustainability transitions? - Beth Stratford

August 28, 2021 23:00 - 35 minutes - 33 MB

Not extracting more resources than what Earth can sustainably provide means that our consumption patterns must also change. However, even common sense suggests that if we put caps on resource use, the question “who can use how much of what” will become pressing. Today’s guest is Beth Stratford, and we will talk about the necessity to diffuse rentier power and redistribute economic rents to mitigate threats of economic instability, inequality and insecurity that could otherwise arise from sca...

Unearned income: Is rentier power a threat to sustainability transitions?

August 28, 2021 23:00 - 35 minutes - 33 MB

Not extracting more resources than what Earth can sustainably provide means that our consumption patterns must also change. However, even common sense suggests that if we put caps on resource use, the question “who can use how much of what” will become pressing. Today’s guest is Beth Stratford, and we will talk about the necessity to diffuse rentier power and redistribute economic rents to mitigate threats of economic instability, inequality and insecurity that could otherwise arise from sca...

Rebels with a cause: practicing decommodification

August 15, 2021 23:00 - 56 minutes - 52.7 MB

The relevance of Karl Polányi’s insights on social and economic transformation to ecological transformations has long been established. At the core of Polányi’s work were the processes that drive the relationship between state and market, namely commodification and decommodification, particularly the three fictitious commodities of land, labour and money. Understanding decommodification in the heart of the ecological crisis is of vital importance as no ecological sustainability can be achiev...

Rebels with a cause: practicing decommodification - Peadar Kirby and Logan Stranchock

August 15, 2021 23:00 - 56 minutes - 52.7 MB

The relevance of Karl Polányi’s insights on social and economic transformation to ecological transformations has long been established. At the core of Polányi’s work were the processes that drive the relationship between state and market, namely commodification and decommodification, particularly the three fictitious commodities of land, labour and money. Understanding decommodification in the heart of the ecological crisis is of vital importance as no ecological sustainability can be achiev...