White Horse Inn
399 episodes - English - Latest episode: 2 days ago - ★★★★★ - 2K ratingsDo all paths lead to God? Is the Bible history or mythology? Are we saved by grace or good works? Featuring conversations with Christians from a variety traditions, this program is designed to give you a better understanding of what you believe and why you believe it.
Homepage Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Overcast Castro Pocket Casts RSS feed
Episodes
How the Local Church Can Minister to the Dechurched
April 14, 2024 08:00 - 40 minutes - 92.4 MBWhat happened in American culture and in the church from the 1970s-1990s? What were the conversations and big concerns of that time when White Horse Inn recorded its first episodes? In answering some of these questions, churches can get their bearings as to what trends have impacted those who no longer sit in their pews and what to do about it. “The early 1990s was an inflection point for American religion. Between the early 1970s and 1990s, the share of Americans who had no religious ...
The Great Dechurching, with Michael Graham and Jim Davis
April 07, 2024 08:00 - 1 hour - 141 MBJustin Holcomb interviews Jim Davis and Michael Graham, authors of The Great Dechurching, to discuss why forty million Americans have stopped attending church in the past 25 years. Many attribute church decline to encroaching secular trends, abuse in the church, or spiritual deconstruction. While all of these trends have spiked in recent years, Davis and Graham, with the help of Ryan Burge, reveal that these factors are not the primary causes for the erosion of church attendance and share wh...
Preaching the Resurrection Amidst the Mockery of the World
March 31, 2024 08:00 - 42 minutes - 101 MBOn this Easter Sunday, we join Paul at the Areopagus in Acts 17. Hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Walter Strickland, and Bob Hiller dive into Paul’s apologetic approach as he speaks to his pagan audience and how on Easter we will, like Paul, be mocked by some for preaching the resurrection of the dead, while others will want to hear more about its hope and promise. CHECK OUT THIS MONTH’S OFFERS: Knowing the Bible: Acts Study by Justin Holcomb Subscribe to Modern Reformation mag...
Preaching That Frees Us from the Law
March 24, 2024 08:00 - 38 minutes - 93.4 MBIn Acts 13:16-41, we encounter the newly converted Paul preaching at the synagogue in Antioch. In this episode, Michael Horton, Bob Hiller, Walter Strickland, and Justin Holcomb discuss what happened between Stephen’s death and Paul’s conversion, and what uniquely transformed Paul from a law-abiding Pharisee to preaching “[freedom] from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.” CHECK OUT THIS MONTH’S OFFERS: Knowing the Bible: Acts Study by Justin Holcomb Su...
Preaching That Endures the Anger of Mobs
March 17, 2024 08:00 - 42 minutes - 101 MBIn Acts 7, we see Stephen’s sermon before the Sanhedrin. What did he say that enraged those he was speaking to and how can we model his posture of forgiveness in the face of persecution? Hosts Michael Horton, Walter Strickland, Bob Hiller, and Justin Holcomb trace Stephen’s redemptive historical tour de force that ultimately culminates in his martyrdom and ask how we can model our own lives and ministries after his example. CHECK OUT THIS MONTH’S OFFERS: Knowing the Bible: Acts Study ...
Preaching Repentance to the Religious and Irreligious Alike
March 10, 2024 09:00 - 36 minutes - 86.9 MBWhy was Jesus sent to the Jews first? How does the church relate to Israel now? In Acts 3:12-26, Peter continues to unravel for the “Men of Israel” how Jesus is the fulfillment of the promises made to the Patriarchs, Moses, and the Prophets. In this episode, Michael Horton, Bob Hiller, Justin Holcomb, and Walter Strickland discuss Peter’s second sermon, how Christianity and Judaism became their own distinct religions, and how the preaching of the gospel calls for the religious and irreligiou...
A Tribute to Rod Rosenbladt
March 08, 2024 09:00 - 50 minutes - 115 MBWatch this conversation at youtube.com/@whitehorse1990 Let’s just go to the OK Corral together to defend the gospel and help people.” In this episode of White Horse Inn, original hosts, Michael Horton, Ken Jones, and Kim Riddlebarger discuss the impact and legacy of their dear friend and former co-host, Rod Rosenbladt. Rod died after a brief illness on February 2, 2024. For those at White Horse Inn, “Dad Rod” was more than just a regular voice articulating a confessional Lutheran distin...
Preaching That Cuts to the Heart
March 03, 2024 09:00 - 44 minutes - 107 MBWhat can the modern church learn from apostolic preaching in Acts? More than we may realize. In this episode, Michael Horton, Walter Strickland, Justin Holcomb, and Bob Hiller uncover many of the key themes, components, and characteristics of apostolic preaching. Starting with Peter’s Pentecost sermon in Acts 2:14-40, the hosts discuss the hermeneutics of the apostles and how we can use their insights in the Old Testament to “cut to the heart” of those who hear our message today. CHEC...
Art in the Christian Life with Guest Ann Tarwater
February 25, 2024 09:00 - 24 minutes - 55.7 MBMichael Horton is joined by Ann Tarwater to discuss the place of art in the Christian life, if art is just for the elites, and how churches can emphasize truth, but neglect goodness and beauty. Ann started her career as a model for famous American fashion designers Oscar de la Renta, Mary McFadden, Alpert Nipon, and many others. She also graduated with a Masters of Divinity from Reformed Theological Seminary in Charlotte, North Carolina. Building upon her background in modeling and fa...
Art and the Pulpit with Guest Dr. Carl Ellis
February 18, 2024 09:00 - 39 minutes - 91.2 MBWalter Strickland and Carl Ellis discuss how the sermon is a piece of rhetoric that is not merely made of wise words (Acts 4:13), but could also be described as a piece of art. Even if there are no icons, tapestries, and stained glass windows in a church, there is still art in worship and in the sermon. Dr. Carl Ellis began his ministry as a Senior Campus Minister in New York, he studied under Francis Schaeffer at LÁbri in Switzerland, completed his MAR at Westminster Theological Semin...
Art and Church Architecture with Guest Dr. Lloyd DeWitt
February 11, 2024 14:53 - 41 minutes - 94.1 MBJustin Holcomb sits down with Lloyd DeWitt to discuss how the church has historically thought of sacred space and architecture, what we can learn from categories and trends that have impacted church architecture, and what we miss when we replace steeples, pulpits, and cathedrals with many eclectic, modern designs. Dr. DeWitt is the Chief Curator and Irene Leache Curator of European Art at the Chrysler Museum of Art in Norfolk, Virginia. He holds a Ph.D. in Art History from the Univers...
Art and the Reformation with Guest Dr. Dan van Voorhis
February 04, 2024 09:00 - 38 minutes - 87.6 MBBob Hiller is joined by Dan van Voorhis to discuss a theology of the arts and how Reformational theology, and Lutheran theology specifically, instructs Christians on the place of art as we live coram deo (in the presence of God). They discuss if art can be “redeemed,” cultivating good taste in art, differences in Lutheran and Reformed traditions, and more. After receiving his Ph.D. in History from the University of St. Andrews, Dr. van Voorhis spent 11 years teaching history and political...
Misunderstood Passages about the “Inconsistencies” in the Bible
January 28, 2024 09:00 - 43 minutes - 99.7 MBThe Bible is a large library of ancient books, covering different ancient literary genres. While all things that pertain to how we can be saved are made plain and clear in the words of Scripture, not everything in the Bible is equally as clear. There are many passages that seem to contradict themselves, which can create a hay day for those antagonistic toward the faith. It can also make for a difficult devotional time for the Christian just trying to faithfully read Scripture. In this episod...
Misunderstood Passages about the Weird Stuff in the Bible
January 21, 2024 09:00 - 38 minutes - 88.3 MBFrom the Nephilim to the imprecatory psalms, there is a lot of weird stuff in the Bible. The problem is that for many people, these texts can quickly turn into rabbit holes of vain speculation. In the episode, Michael Horton, Walter Strickland, and Bob Hiller show how ordinary Christians can be inquisitive readers of Scripture—being receptive to their meaning and place in God’s revelation—while also refraining from making the strange and the niche central to our who we are.
Misunderstood Passages About Culture
January 14, 2024 09:00 - 41 minutes - 95.6 MBWhen it comes to cultural concerns of our day, Bible passages are often used by pastors, politicians, or concerned family members to calm or stoke anxiety and fear in others. In this episode, Michael Horton, Walter Strickland, and Bob Hiller situate these passages in their original context and discuss how they’re often used to address the salient cultural and political issues that occupy so many people’s attention today.
Misunderstood Passages About the Christian Life
January 07, 2024 09:00 - 39 minutes - 90.7 MBWhat are some of the most misunderstood passages in the Bible? In this episode, Michael Horton, Walter Strickland, and Bob Hiller discuss three of the most Googled verses in the Bible and how these verses are often shared to help motivate people amidst uncertainty, anxiety, and sufferings big and small.
I Will Build My Church
December 31, 2023 09:00 - 43 minutes - 98.6 MBThank you for supporting and listening to White Horse Inn this year! In this special year-end episode, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland answer listener questions and reflect on what excites them as they anticipate God’s work in 2024.
The Blessings of Simeon
December 24, 2023 09:00 - 39 minutes - 91.4 MBAs we consider Christ’s birth, we can’t help but consider his death. From a baby in a manager to a man hanging on a cross, it is through Jesus’s life, death, and resurrection that we find the hope and joy we sing about at Christmas. In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland reflect on The Song of Simeon, recognizing God’s faithfulness and Jesus’s redemptive purpose.
Gratitude and the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come (Special)
December 22, 2023 09:00 - 7 minutes - 16.6 MB"Before I draw nearer to that stone to which you point," said Scrooge, "answer me one question." In this special episode re-release, Michael Horton shares how the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come in Dickens's 'A Christmas Carol' points us to our need for a transformation, but how only the gospel can move us from behavioral change to living a new life of gratitude and joy.
Grace and the Ghost of Christmas Present (Special)
December 20, 2023 09:00 - 10 minutes - 23.6 MB"Come in! and know me better, man!" In this special episode re-release, Justin Holcomb shares how the Ghost of Christmas Present in Dickens's 'A Christmas Carol' teaches us about grace and peace and the invitation to feast in the Christian life.
Guilt and the Ghost of Christmas Past (Special)
December 18, 2023 09:00 - 5 minutes - 13.6 MB“Oh! But he was a tight-fisted hand at the grindstone, Scrooge! a squeezing, wrenching, grasping, scraping, clutching, covetous, old sinner!” In this special episode re-release, Bob Hiller shares how the Ghost of Christmas Past in Dickens's 'A Christmas Carol' teaches us about guilt, the law, and how we are freed from its condemnation through Christ.
The Angel’s Announcement: Gloria
December 17, 2023 09:00 - 39 minutes - 90.7 MBAngelic announcements are found throughout both the Old and New Testaments, but angels remain perplexing. Why does God use these messengers, and what is the nature of their message? In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland delve into the mysteries of these terrifying warriors and their message of peace.
Legacy, Leadership, and the Law with Guest Sinclair Ferguson
December 13, 2023 10:00 - 42 minutes - 96.6 MBWatch this interview at youtube.com/WhiteHorse1990. In this bonus episode of White Horse Inn, Michael Horton and Sinclair Ferguson discuss James Montgomery Boice's lasting impact on systematic expository preaching and tackle the modern challenges faced by leaders in the age of social media. Sinclair offers a candid take on the role of pastors versus leaders, as well as the Scottish Reformation, and how to avoid the pitfalls of antinomianism and legalism. (Episode SP015)
The Way of Peace: Zechariah's Song
December 10, 2023 15:22 - 38 minutes - 88.9 MBOld Testament birth stories often begin with barren women, and the story of Zechariah and Elizabeth follows suit. Conceived in their old age, John the Baptist is born out of a miracle at just the right time—mere months before Jesus. But why is he such a prominent figure in Jesus’s birth narrative? And what can we learn from his father’s song? In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland discuss the song of Zechariah and how a fie...
The Magnificat: Mary’s Song of Praise
December 03, 2023 09:00 - 40 minutes - 93 MBIn the small town of Nazareth, an angel told a humble virgin girl that she would be God’s chosen instrument through whom the deliverer would come. And, though she couldn’t fully comprehend all this would entail, Mary received the Lord’s word and took her place in God’s unfolding plan of redemption. In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland dive into Mary’s song of praise. They consider how this simple girl became the mother of...
Sharing Hope Through Hardship with Guest Joni Eareckson Tada
November 29, 2023 11:00 - 30 minutes - 69.3 MBWatch this interview at youtube.com/WhiteHorse1990. In this bonus episode of White Horse Inn, Michael Horton interviews Joni Eareckson Tada, who shares her story of hope through hardship and how her determination continues to help others with similar disabilities all across the globe. (Episode SP014)
Where Do We Go From Here?
November 26, 2023 08:00 - 44 minutes - 102 MBWhat does Christianity and liberalism look like 100 years later? How does Machen’s writing apply to us today, and what does that mean for the future of the American church? In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland advocate for a modern reformation, reflecting on what must still be recovered and what it looks like to resist the pull of liberalism today.
All Heroes Are Flawed: Racism in the American Church
November 19, 2023 08:00 - 44 minutes - 103 MBWe admire and imitate our heroes, and we’re often shocked when we discover their flaws. But is there value in facing their failures? In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland break down the history of racism within the American church and consider what we can learn from the past as we move forward in love.
How to Keep Your Faith After High School with Guests Adriel Sanchez, Gretchen Ronnevik, and Kendra Dahl
November 15, 2023 08:00 - 1 hour - 169 MBThe following is a special bonus episode from our sister program, Core Christianity. In this cross-confessional conversation, Core Radio host Pastor Adriel Sanchez is joined by Kendra Dahl and Gretchen Ronnevik to discuss how to help our kids keep their faith. With both a reformed and a Lutheran perspective at the table, we thought this conversation would be perfect for our White Horse Inn audience. (Episode SP013) You can also watch this three part series on Core Christianity's YouTube c...
What Is Liberalism?
November 12, 2023 08:00 - 40 minutes - 92.5 MBWhen we hear the word “liberalism”, we often think of liberal politics. But Christianity and Liberalism has religion in mind. Machen shows what happens when liberalism is inserted into religion—it morphs into something completely different from biblical Christianity. So what makes it so appealing to theologians? In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland define liberalism and dive into its distortion of Christianity.
Shall the Fundamentalists Win?
November 05, 2023 08:00 - 37 minutes - 86.4 MBDuring the 1920s, American Pastor Harry Fosdick wrote a sermon called, “Shall the Fundamentalists Win?” addressing the controversies he saw rising within American churches. As the ideas of Freud, Marx, and Nietzsche grew in cultural importance, they began to influence theologians as well. So, Fosdick argued, “The liberals must go.” In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland take on the historical details of where fundamentalism...
Soli Deo Gloria: Our Only Ambition
October 29, 2023 09:00 - 41 minutes - 94.1 MBFrom award speeches to success stories, glory is consistently self-attributed. So, what does it look like to be motivated by God’s glory? In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland consider the foundation of soli Deo Gloria, or “for the glory of God alone.” As they wrap up this series on the five solas in this episode, they also reflect on the current state of the relationship between Protestants and Roman Catholics.
Sola Fide: Our Only Means
October 22, 2023 09:00 - 41 minutes - 93.8 MBHow do we receive and rest in God’s righteousness? This question propelled the Reformers forward, confronting Rome’s insistence that justification is something believers must cooperate to receive. Instead, they proclaimed sola fide, or “through faith alone.” In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland discuss the doctrine of justification by faith alone and consider the role of good works in the Christian’s life.
Sola Gratia: Our Only Method
October 15, 2023 09:00 - 41 minutes - 95.2 MBIf our culture is like water, then the concept of grace is its oil. We like to work hard and believe our efforts should merit reward. Until, of course, we come face-to-face with our inability to truly “help ourselves.” In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland break down the history of sola gratia, or “by grace alone,” confronting the continued influence of Pelagianism today and how grace sets us free.
Solus Christus: Our Only Mediator
October 08, 2023 09:00 - 41 minutes - 95.3 MBWith Solus Christus, or “through Christ alone,” the Reformers addressed our need for a mediator. Taking issue with the role of priests in the Roman Catholic church, the Reformers pointed to the “one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Tim. 2:5), highlighting the priesthood of all believers. So what role does that leave for ministers today? In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland discuss solus Christus and ...
Sola Scriptura: Our One Foundation
October 01, 2023 09:00 - 42 minutes - 96.4 MBWith Sola Scriptura, or “through Scripture alone,” the Reformers affirmed the authority of Scripture over and above the tradition of the Roman Catholic church. Today, questions of authority and accountability still plague the church, stemming from the influence of radical Anabaptists, modern biblicists, the continued tradition of Rome, and our own culturally shaped desires to have the final say. In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter ...
Inside the Evangelical Movement that Failed a Generation with Guest Jon Ward
September 27, 2023 09:00 - 34 minutes - 78.2 MBIn this bonus episode of White Horse Inn, Michael Horton interviews Jon Ward about his new book Testimony: Inside the Evangelical Movement that Failed a Generation, which discusses his experience in the Evangelical church and his takeaways after stepping out of it. (Episode SP012)
Impact of the Gospel: Growing Deeper, Never Out
September 24, 2023 09:00 - 43 minutes - 98.6 MBThroughout history, Christianity has profoundly impacted societies for the better, with Christians founding hospitals and adoption agencies and advocating for the poor and oppressed. Today, we may benefit from these Christian influences, but do we carry on their legacy? Are we contributing to the growth of Christianity, or are we growing out of it? In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland point us to God’s work all around us,...
Sprouts of the New Creation
September 17, 2023 09:00 - 44 minutes - 101 MBThe darkness can often feel out of control, tempting us towards hopelessness and fear. Scripture assures us that God is powerful and his mercy is abundant, and even now the gospel is planting seeds of Christ’s kingdom in and through his people. So, where are these sprouts of the new creation? In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland reflect on God’s work in their own lives, helping us see the age to come breaking in on this p...
Living Between Worlds
September 10, 2023 09:00 - 39 minutes - 91.5 MBTrying to achieve salvation through works is a human tendency, but this works-based ideology is contrary to the Bible’s message of salvation by grace alone through faith in Christ alone. So, how does living in the already-but-not-yet impact our standing before God? What does it mean for where our citizenship lies? In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland discuss the role of the church and what it means to be in the world but ...
Eschatology: Last Things First
September 03, 2023 09:00 - 39 minutes - 91.2 MBWhen someone mentions the “end times,” what comes to mind? Does it make you anxious, or perhaps tempt you to sit back and idly wait? Eschatology refers to the end, but really, it ought to come first. Our understanding of how things end positions us in God’s timeline and orient's us toward the ultimate goal of our salvation. In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland dive into the theological history of eschatology, how we shoul...
Uncommon Unity with Guest Richard Lints
August 30, 2023 09:00 - 43 minutes - 100 MBIn this bonus episode of White Horse Inn, Michael Horton interviews Richard Lints about his new book Uncommon Unity and dives into the history of American politics and social issues in relation to Christianity. (Episode SP011)
Triumph: The Death of Death
August 27, 2023 09:00 - 40 minutes - 92 MBWhen the trials of tragedy and trauma feel overwhelming, we can forget the victory our Savior accomplished for us. Our own Creator came to us in the flesh—God’s one and only Son bore the full weight of sin and death, giving us everlasting life. We are undeserving; nevertheless, he defeated death for us. How do we remember this marvelous truth in the midst of chaos? How do we continue to have the full hope God intended for us? In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin H...
Trauma: The Pain of Belief in a Sovereign God
August 20, 2023 09:00 - 42 minutes - 96.1 MBIn some ways, trauma has become a buzzword, both culturally and within the church. Even in places that are supposed to be the most safe, traumatic experiences seem rampant. So, how do we deal with it all? Where does God’s will come into play and how can we have hope during some of the darkest times of our lives? In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland wrestle with the issues we’re facing when it comes to addressing trauma an...
Tragedy: Meaningful or Meaningless?
August 13, 2023 09:00 - 37 minutes - 86.8 MBWhen tragedy strikes us, what do we do? Do we want to immediately blame God? Do we try to rationalize it in some way? Or do we just lose hope? When trials feel like a main player in our lives, it can be overwhelming. We might feel entitled to the answers for our questions. In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland take on the challenge of addressing God’s part in our tragedies and consider how to find our way when we feel lost.
Theorizing Evil: Is There Still a Place For Apologetics?
August 06, 2023 09:00 - 37 minutes - 84.7 MBGerman philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche once said that there’s an old illusion, and “it is called good and evil.” Throughout the ages, people have either thrown out the idea of evil, like Nietzsche, or attempted to rationalize it with their belief system. So, if everyone in some way gives an account for real evil and suffering in the world, what do Christians have to say about it? In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland tackl...
The Church in America in the 21st Century with Guest Aaron Renn
August 02, 2023 09:00 - 41 minutes - 94.1 MBIn this bonus episode of White Horse Inn, Michael Horton interviews Aaron Renn about his aim of helping the church in America rise to the challenge of finding success in the 21st century.
Identity in Christ
July 30, 2023 09:00 - 40 minutes - 92.5 MBThe secular world sees our identity as something that we achieve instead of receive. They take the brokenness of a fallen world and fashion it into identities in everything but Jesus Christ. So, how do we stand firm when the world pulls us to adopt these broken identities? How do we understand our natures in light of the God who carefully made us? In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland break down what it means to live in Ch...
Restoring Eve with Guest Kendra Dahl
July 26, 2023 12:00 - 24 minutes - 55.1 MBIn this bonus episode of White Horse Inn, Caleb Wait interviews Kendra Dahl about her article in Modern Reformation, "Restoring Eve." Listen in as they discuss potential interpretations of the woman's desire in Genesis 3:16 and its implications for the church today.
Nature and Norms: Disentangling Created Essence from Social Stereotypes
July 23, 2023 09:00 - 36 minutes - 82.9 MBIndividualization seems to be ingrained into Western culture. Personal experience, self-proclaimed identity, toleration, and relative truth are the reigning figures of society. While God gives wisdom through his Scriptures, the norms and nature he has set for us are at constant odds with these prevailing cultural narratives. So how do we not fall prey to social stereotypes? In this episode of White Horse Inn, hosts Michael Horton, Justin Holcomb, Bob Hiller, and Walter Strickland discuss the...