"Batman" and "Batman Returns": Burton's Got a Bat Attitude

For Sarah and Raf, a certain 1989 marketing juggernaut changed the way they saw movies forever...and thinking about it drives them both a bit batty.

In this podcast double feature, the hosts tackle Tim Burton's toxic-candy-colored "Batman" (1989) and the much-maligned "Batman Returns" (1992). Raf discusses how "Batman" laid the groundwork for modern-day comic book movies and ushered in the era of affordable VHS tapes. Sarah, meanwhile, notes that the film's kid-focused marketing and gritty embittered tone make it feel like "an angry divorced dad," though she stans Vicki Vale's bizarre fashion choices.

But both hosts are here for "Batman Returns," the film that pushed Burton away from the franchise but won over Sarah and Raf's cine-manic hearts. They'll discuss whether Michelle Pfeiffer's Selina Kyle is actually a good guy, how Max Shreck is Peak Walken, how Bruce Wayne could've been the Penguin (or Shreck) in a different life, whether Batman and Catwoman could've made it work — and, most importantly, how this dark film about murder and corruption is really a Christmas movie. Just like "Die Hard."