As Angie heads from Zoom into the classroom, she and Elizabeth discuss the switching of mediums, the differences between camera and stage. Body language. Elizabeth is working on deciding her next project. Then they dive into the differences and similarities between fictions and nonfiction, their strategies, their expectations, and even their definitions. Fictionalizing, omission, editing, exaggerating…what creates and what crosses the lines? What about auto-fiction, fiction based on life? They offer some tools to borrow from each genre for the other, including historical context, research, interviews, metaphors, vivid and specific detail, even fantasy… And gesture toward some problems with ideas of balance and objectivity. Wrapping up they talk about religion and central metaphors. Warning: excess punning occurs.






Links in this episode:


Sir Ian McKellen on Dick Cavett


Michael Caine Masterclass


Nomadland the film


Oprah confronts James Frey


Karl Ove Knausgard 


The Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence 


Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenidies


Ta-Nahesi Coates The Water Dancers


Colson Whitehead The Underground Railroad 


Ali Abdaal


Barbara Oakley A Mind for Numbers


Make It Stick by Peter C. Brown and others


Iris Murdoch The Sea, The Sea



Questions? Email questions at storymakersshow.com 




Story Makers is a podcast that features in-depth conversations with accomplished writers, filmmakers and industry experts about story craft, technique, habit and survival–everything you need to know to stay inspired, connect to your creativity, find others’ wonderful stories and your own success.


The hosts:


Elizabeth Stark is a published, agented novelist and distributed filmmaker who teaches and mentors writers at BookWritingWorld.com.


Angie Powers is a distributed filmmaker and published short story writer with an MFA in creative writing and a certificate in screenwriting from UCLA who teaches story structure at BookWritingWorld.com.