Working remotely vs. working in an office

Tyler: In this episode, we're gonna talk about the pros and cons of remote work, such as when does it make sense for a company to have employees altogether in an office versus fully remote or something in between.

Rick: I personally get this all of the time. I've heard of four core models that . One is “single site” which means everyone works in the same office environment. Second, is “multi-site” where you have multiple locations with everyone working within the office. And then the third is “satellite”, in which most of the team is together, but a few people are remote. In other words, it's more of a hybrid model. And then at the complete other end of the spectrum is “remote-first” meaning everyone works from a separate location by default and then comes together when necessary to meet in-person. Does that cover the gamut of options in your opinion? 

Tyler: Yeah. It's kind of a sliding scale so everything in between is fair game. But, yeah. More and more, I think people work at a company with lots of people, but they work remotely or they work in coworking spaces or whatever. So the world is trying to figure out what makes sense for which companies here.

Rick: In my most recent consulting project, I'm working remotely. It's the first time I've actually worked remotely for a company before. So, that was an interesting experience. I'm interested in what your experiences are with this. Do you feel like there's a right way to do this?

“There's not a one-size-fits-all, right solution”

Tyler: 100 percent, no. There's not a one-size-fits-all, right solution. I see a lot of arguments in favor of remote, but my experience is that, in practice, doing remote has a lot of challenges that I think get glossed over when people talk about it. So, I think there's there's pros and cons to both. Philosophically, I want remote to be the answer. But, in practice, I haven't seen that to be true so far. 

Rick: Before we go into pros and cons, tell me why you want remote to be the future. 

“Talent is global… if you limit yourself to a specific location, you’re limiting the talent pool”

Tyler: Just to name a few people [and companies] who are advocates. Basecamp is remote-first. Doist is remote-first. If you follow the founders on Twitter, they talk about this a lot. I buy the argument that talent is global. It's spread out all over the place, and your company should be trying to hire the best people possible. And if you limit yourself to a specific location, you’re limiting the talent pool. The other [argument] is that we are all adults. There’s something that seems almost like an industrial-age assembly line about having everyone commute to the same place and sit in desks next to each other in order to get work done. The internet is a thing. It doesn't seem like we should need to be next to each other. So that's why I feel like it should work. 

Rick: So one [argument] is that [remote-first] allows you to attract a better breadth of talent from different locations. More diversity and people that you would never even think of hiring at a co-located place. And then on the second argument, I understand that you don't like the industrial nine-to-five feel of an office. But, what is it that you would replace it with?

Tyler: Well I like the idea of if you get your work done, as the boss, it’s not my business how it happens. Historically, I feel like too many employers felt like they owned their employees. I mean historically they actually did and that was obviously terrible. 

Rick: Are you talking about slavery?

Tyler: Yes. We haven't broken out of that fully, we're still, I think-- plutocrats exert way too much control over the people who work for them.

Rick: Wait, what's a plutocrat?

A plutocrat is a person whose power derives from their wealth.

Tyler: Rich people who run the world, basically.

Rick: Are you a plutocrat?

Tyler: I'm working on it. [laughs]

Rick: All right. Sorry. Keep going.

Tyler: Basically, like what you and I are doing right now. You're in Utah. I'm in Missouri. This is fine. We're both adults. We're getting this thing done. Should I have to fly to you every week in order to record a podcast? Of course not. Why does everyone have to drive to the same office to get work done?

Employees gain autonomy and flexibility from remote work

Rick: There's a lot of benefits [to co-location] that we'll go through later, but what I'm trying to get to is what is it that you gain from [remote-first] as an employee?

Tyler: I think it's autonomy. You get to decide where you live, you get to decide, "Do I want a standing desk? What kind of chair do I want?" You just have total control of your work environment. 

Rick: Flexibility. Employee flexibility. Got it. Yes, it's the ultimate flexibility. Get the job done, work when you need to. I don't think that always applies. For some roles, you will need to be available whether you're remote or co-located at a certain time.

Tyler: Yes, there is time flexibility, but that's maybe orthogonal to environment flexibility.

Rick: You're killing me with these words. What's orthogonal?

In statistics, orthogonal means statistically independent

Tyler: Perpendicular. It's like an unrelated thing.

Rick: They cross over each other?

Tyler: Yes, it's just that they're pointing in different directions. These are two points. Your time flexibility is almost completely independent of your location flexibility. Support needs to be on at a certain time, they don't necessarily need to be in the office to do their job.

Rick: Location flexibility is really what you're arguing for here?

Tyler: Yes.

Rick: I like it. There's also work environment flexibility, which gives the employee choice on the desks and stuff. I get it. What's stopping us, in your opinion, from getting to where everyone's working remote?

“It's very, very lonely to work remotely”

Tyler: My company is not remote for the most part. We have a little bit of a hybrid model, but we’re mostly not remote. Obviously, despite my philosophical agreement with it, I think there are some real practical problems. I can just rattle off a few. One is, it's very, very lonely to work remotely, especially if that means you're working from home. Remote can also mean going to a co-working space and being around people, but those aren't the people you're working with, so I think there's still an opportunity for loneliness there. I don't know if you've ever done that type of thing.

Rick: I am a little bit different in this regard. I actually like to be by myself, so I can't relate to this. In fact, when I see ...