Snarky Faith
289 episodes - English - Latest episode: 24 days ago - ★★★★★ - 91 ratingsWelcome to Snarky Faith, your irreverent guide to navigating the maze of life, culture, and spirituality. Hosted by Stuart Delony, we're all about ditching religious clichés and dogma in favor of meaningful conversations that challenge the status quo. Forget the questions or even the answers; it's all about the journey towards a fresh take on faith. Tune in for a no-holds-barred exploration of spirituality that offers sanctuary for those questioning, seeking, or just tired of the same old religious platitudes.
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Episodes
Mimetic Theory & Middle-earth
March 26, 2024 18:26 - 53 minutes - 48.9 MBThis week on Snarky Faith, we're thrilled to have Jon Turney, the author of In an engaging blend of literary scholarship and accessible philosophy, Matthew J. Distefano offers readers a fresh perspective on J.R.R. Tolkien's beloved creation, focusing on the unassuming yet profoundly wise Hobbits. Through the application of mimetic theory, the book examines how desires are influenced and shaped by those around us, using Hobbit society as a mirror to our own. Distefano skilfully navigates th...
RJ the Astronaut
February 29, 2024 22:33 - 1 hour - 58 MBThis week on Snarky Faith, we're thrilled to have Jon Turney, the author of RJ the Astronaut, for a revealing conversation about his groundbreaking novel. Turney opens up about the inspiration behind RJ's character — an astronaut embroiled in a profound existential and spiritual journey across the cosmos. The discussion unveils the depths of questioning and understanding that form the core of the narrative, highlighting the novel's exploration of faith, doubt, and the human condition through...
Love, Lies, and 2024
February 02, 2024 21:32 - 45 minutes - 41.8 MBJoin me as I take you on a wild journey through the latest episode of Snarky Faith. Brace yourselves for a rollercoaster ride as I open up about my personal journey through grief and loss in the bleak landscape of 2024, where political turmoil looms large. But that's just the beginning! In this episode, we fearlessly dive into the absurdities of American Christianity with the Christian Crazy segment (including some Taylor Swift/Evangelical insanity), and we kick off our Buzzword Breakdown s...
Indigo - The Color of Grief
December 22, 2023 21:31 - 46 minutes - 42.2 MBIn this episode of Snarky Faith, we sit down with Dr. Jonathan Foster, a theologian and author, to discuss his latest work, "Indigo - the Color of Grief." This book is more than just words on a page; it's an immersive journey through the depths of sorrow and the resilience of the human spirit. Dr. Foster shares his personal experience with the tragic loss of his daughter and how it shaped his perspective on grief. Our discussion is a tapestry of introspection and revelation, examining the d...
The Symphony of Listening: Embracing Wisdom Across Faith Lines
November 10, 2023 23:03 - 1 hour - 70.5 MBIn today's episode of Snarky Faith, we're venturing into a space that's often skirted around with discomfort or outright hostility. That's right—we're digging into the delightful mess that is religious diversity, but not in the way you might expect. We're not here to throw shade or to spotlight the foibles of faith; instead, we're talking about the rich gifts that diversity brings us, especially when we shut up and listen. Our guidebook for this journey is none other than the recent release...
Theological Musings from a Tattooed Theologian
October 20, 2023 17:10 - 1 hour - 62.9 MBBrace Yourselves, This is Theology Unfiltered Hey Snarky Faith listeners, brace yourselves! We've got a treat for you—a theological espresso shot that'll jolt you awake, whether you're ready for it or not. I sat down with Dillon Naber Cruz, the mind behind Theological Musings: Collected Essays of a Tattooed Theologian, Vol. 1, and let me tell you, this isn't your run-of-the-mill theology talk. This is more like a high-speed chase through a maze of moral and existential dilemmas. What We Co...
Leaning Forward with Karl and Laura Forehand
September 29, 2023 22:28 - 1 hour - 75.2 MBThe Forehands: Not Your Typical Spiritual Guides Let's get one thing straight: Karl and Laura Forehand aren't here to sell you the same old, tired spiritual clichés. Nope, they're here to wrestle—wrestle with beliefs, wrestle with trauma, and maybe even wrestle with you a bit. So, buckle up, because this episode of Snarky Faith is about to get real. Deconstruction: More Than Just a Buzzword Ah, deconstruction—the buzzword that's been making the rounds in spiritual circles faster than you ...
Seeds of De(con)struction
September 08, 2023 22:06 - 1 hour - 80.6 MBWe've got a special treat for you today. We're diving deep into the murky waters of faith, spirituality, and the church with none other than Nat Turney, the author of the provocative book "Seeds of De(con)struction." Trust us, this is one episode you don't want to miss. The Book That's Shaking the Foundations "Seeds of De(con)struction" is not your typical faith book. It's a raw, unfiltered look at the complexities of spirituality, the church, and the human experience. Nat Turney takes us ...
Breaking Bad Faith
August 04, 2023 21:57 - 1 hour - 68.7 MBJoin me again on Snarky Faith. Our guest is none other than Michael Camp, the author of "Breaking Bad Faith," a book that's as much a mental workout as it is a spiritual journey. Join us for our conversation - it's a fun ride. In this episode, we dive headfirst into the turbulent waters of religious and social issues, with Camp serving as our fearless guide. His new book, "Breaking Bad Faith," is not your typical Sunday school lesson. It's a deep exploration of Christianity and its inter...
Just Be Kind
July 10, 2023 03:00 - 42 minutes - 41.9 MBJoin me for another episode of "Snarky Faith" as we wade through the stormy intersection of faith and politics, exploring the emotional landscape marked by anxiety and depression. In these tumultuous times following the downfall of Roe v Wade and the erosion of LGBTQ rights, we're on a mission to make sense of it all and find our footing. In this episode, I'll share candid insights about these challenging times, refusing to gloss over the raw reality of our emotional struggles. We're going ...
Canceling Easter
April 21, 2023 22:20 - 1 hour - 67.2 MBOn today's show, we'll reflect on how Easter has become a religious shit-show and we're also joined by Keith Giles and Matthew Distefano to talk about Quior Publishing's new venture into class literature - and why books matter and shouldn't be banned. Let's just be honest for a moment. Easter has lost the plot within modern Christendom and reveals the rot within the faith. Easter is supposed to be a high holy day that is supposed to symbolize hope and renewal, yet it's turned out to be m...
The Catch-Up
March 31, 2023 22:47 - 49 minutes - 54.1 MBIn this episode of Snarky Faith, we delve into the discussion of our collective struggles with the state of the world and the overwhelming noise surrounding everything. Drawing from Brene Brown's idea that faith minus vulnerability equals extremism, let's talk about the questions around why Americans seem to be doubling down on religious culture issues as religion declines in the country. The faith seems to be obsessed with things that no longer encapsulate faith or the teachings of Jesus ...
Theology of Consent
November 01, 2022 14:00 - 56 minutes - 54.4 MB"We could be the people who risk with God in the face of apocalypse rather than the people who trust in a god who authors apocalypse." Jonathan J. Foster ~ Theology of Consent: Mimetic Theory in an Open and Relational Universe Coincidences happen and paradoxes occur. In life, there are rare occurrences where cosmically divergent concepts combine, almost as if naturally intended - like peanut butter and jelly. In his new book, Theology of Consent: Mimetic Theory in an Open an...
Christian Nationalism
September 16, 2022 19:57 - 56 minutes - 54.4 MB"I’m a Christian, and I say it proudly, we should be Christian nationalists." Marjorie Taylor Green ~ Politician and Conspiracy Theorist You may have heard about Christian nationalism... It's the hip (not) new trend all your Bible-beating relatives, and red-hat-wearing neighbors are talking about. Christian nationalism is a casserole of the worst parts of both the 4th of July and Christmas paired scrumptiously with a fine assortment of hatred, guns, and an unquenchable thirst for...
The Church Can Go To Hell with Desimber Rose Wattleton
August 11, 2022 14:46 - 56 minutes - 54.4 MB"If we aren’t careful, we can become so bitter about the journey that we aren’t able to see how much we’ve grown along the way." Desimber Rose Wattleton ~ The Church Can Go to Hell Rarely do we hear honest and raw confessions and testimony from pastors and clergy. Usually, the Lords of the Pulpit carefully craft a public, pious persona and live it out - cosplay style. The rules of this game do not include being honest and authentic. Those are not part of the playbook. With many pa...
Honeysuckle with Meagan Ruby Wagner
July 22, 2022 15:56 - 1 hour - 63.3 MB"It should come as no surprise when So-called Christian powerhouses fall Corporate greed dressed in Sunday best od has always been in the business Of toppling empires" Meagan Ruby Wagner ~ Jericho Presently, language is purposefully abused and exploited, often for evil ends, to benefit those in positions of power. How can we combat this? There are many ways to push back. Yet, one of those is frequently brushed aside as being unimportant in culture and society. Today, we...
Sola Mysterium with Keith Giles
July 15, 2022 14:30 - 59 minutes - 56.8 MB"Will we ever arrive at our destination? Who can say? But, God is not far away. God is alive within; living and breathing along with us in every moment. How do we know this? We can stop, be still, listen, and experience God’s presence anytime we need to. We can trust, by faith, that God will never leave us or forsake us. We can believe that Jesus is in the Father, and the Father is in us, and we are in Christ." Keith Giles ~ Sola Mysterium If life is a mystery and if God is at th...
Learning from Experience
July 08, 2022 21:49 - 58 minutes - 55.9 MB"When you say to yourself. 'I don't care what happens,' it just gives you a broader perspective." - George Carlin There are times when we must wrestle with baggage from the road traveled as we progress in our faith. Questions begin to arise, and easy spiritual answers no longer soothe as a salve to the itching reality of balancing the trauma of living with the vastness of the divine. Either we give in to the itch, or we learn to ignore it. One path results in transformation, w...
Out Into The Desert
May 26, 2022 15:36 - 58 minutes - 56.5 MB"People are finding acceptance, love, and healing outside of the organizational church. They feel like they were supporting the organization of the church and the church was not supporting them." Karl Forehand ~ Out Into The Desert Karl J. Forehand was a bi-vocational pastor for 20 years and has training in spiritual leadership coaching, plant-based nutrition, and spiritual direction. He’s the author of The Tea Shop, The Hotel, Apparent Faith and Being. Soon, Karl is releasing hi...
Road Trip
May 19, 2022 16:17 - 1 hour - 59.4 MB"Based on this historical example, if our passion is to end abortion in our nation, the best way to do so is to circumvent political processes (which, to date, have not proven very effective), and to love our neighbor as Jesus commanded." Keith Giles ~ Jesus Untangled Today's show is a mixed bag of talk about reproductive rights, and I'll also take you on a road trip discussion of our continuing series on spiritual formation. Note: I apologize in advance for the poor sound quality ...
Leaving Well
April 29, 2022 22:18 - 1 hour - 61.6 MBTo go somewhere, you have to leave. There will be times in our journeys in faith when we're called to leave, either by choice or circumstance. Sometimes we pull away for a moment; other times, maybe forever. The keys to navigating these times are discernment, detachment, and humility. We encounter moments where leaving is healthy and gives us perspective. Other times, we just need to get the hell out of bad or toxic situations. Regardless of the reason, what we learn in these times o...
The Art of Being Lost
April 15, 2022 12:58 - 1 hour - 58.5 MB"As you start to walk on the way, the way appears." ~ Rumi No one likes to be lost. It strikes us with fear and disorientation because we like to be in control. When we're lost, things feel out of control. Yet being lost is part of the spiritual journey. In many ways, it is an essential ingredient for change and growth. As humans, we're creatures of habit and depend on certain things for stability as we make our way in the world every day. Remove some of the familiar, and we...
Nitty Gritty Faith
April 08, 2022 14:00 - 1 hour - 58.1 MB"We must realize that leaps of faith are the junk food of the spiritual realm... An authentic leap of faith may become the first step of a new beginning, but taking that step feels more like the culmination of a long and engaging journey." Eric Elnes ~ Gifts of the Dark Wood Continuing on our series about the tangible ways of faith, today we'll discuss different motivations for seeking after God. Thus far, we'd discussed conversion and moments of experiencing the divine. Too o...
Snarky Faith Trailer
April 01, 2022 21:20 - 42 seconds - 3.32 MBSnarky Faith is a space where we irreverently wrestle through life, culture and spirituality. It’s a skewering of religion in culture today. The questions or even answers are never the point – it’s all about the conversation. Hosted by Stuart Delony. Snarky Faith is on WCOM LP 103.5 Chapel Hill/Carrboro, NC Tuesdays 5-6pm EST www.snarkyfaith.com
Touching the Stove
April 01, 2022 19:45 - 1 hour - 61.9 MB"I tell you solemnly, in so far as you neglected to do this to one of the least of these, you neglect to do it to me." -Jesus The pursuit of experiencing the divine is the age-old goal of religious and spiritual seekers. For those that believe or want to believe, such an encounter can be transformative and confirming to one's faith. Yet, organized religion has manipulated this desire and used it to control the masses through fear, guilt, and shame masked as theology, dogma, and practice...
Emptiness
March 24, 2022 15:00 - 1 hour - 59.4 MB"The courage to be is rooted in the God who appears when God has disappeared in the anxiety of doubt." -Paul Tillich Religious conversion is a peculiar thing. The very mention of "getting saved" most likely triggers lots of ideas, experiences, feelings, and bad memes in your head. The funny thing is that conversion is not intended to be a spiritual, rapturous, or transcendent experience. It's likewise not about praying a prayer or getting a magic get-out-of-hell-free card. That...
My Gay Church Days
March 10, 2022 17:05 - 58 minutes - 56.3 MB“How many of us are strangers to ourselves in order to please the church.” ~ George Azar On this week's show, we sit down with author and ex-pastor George Azar to discuss his new book, My Gay Church Days. The book is a profoundly raw, honest, and open memoir about his experiences within Christianity and ministry as a gay man. It's a journey of self-discovery from someone who's just like all of us - in search of love, acceptance, belonging, and community. From an early age, George...
Uncertainty
March 02, 2022 18:18 - 1 hour - 60.5 MB"For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known." 1 Corinthians 13:12 Uncertainty is something that usually makes us feel uncomfortable. We like to be in control and have a hand in the outcome of things in life. It's a natural inclination, but it's also counter-productive when we seek to change and grow. In regards to religion, certainty is typically a recipe for disaster. Or, as Eric Elnes puts it...
Abstract Faith
February 18, 2022 20:35 - 58 minutes - 56.4 MB"For we are to God the pleasing aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. To the one we are an aroma that brings death; to the other, an aroma that brings life. And who is equal to such a task? Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ, we speak before God with sincerity, as those sent from God." 2 Corinthians 2:15-17 I've been lately contemplating this idea of Christianity and the idea of embodying ...
Call Me A Leper
February 11, 2022 19:50 - 1 hour - 60.3 MB"It all has to do with love of others, which is the purest expression of our love of God. If Jesus has a theology, it is a "theology of humanism' - we love God through love of the humanity made in his image." -Addison Hodges Hart For the past few weeks on the show, we have been working our way through the Sermon on the Mount. It's the centerpiece of Jesus' teachings and lays the groundwork for the ethics that embody the kingdom of Heaven. At its core, this teaching is a call to self-exami...
Faithful Mindfulness
February 04, 2022 17:20 - 55 minutes - 53.4 MBThis week on the show, we'll pause our series on the Sermon on the Mount to do something a bit different. Yet, it's still very much in the same vein of the ethics of the Kingdom of God, where health and mindfulness matter. Mental health matters. It's an area that the church has long ignored or mishandled. You can't pray away mental health issues; that's just bad theology. Self-work is necessary on the road towards health. For too long has therapy a negative stigma within Christianity. ...
False Prophets
January 28, 2022 13:18 - 55 minutes - 53.7 MBIn modern-day Christianity it seems that there's no shortage of self-proclaimed prophets. They make bold claims about the future. They'll insist that God measures your faithfulness by how much you give to their ministries. They preach of an angry God who seems to hate the same people they do. It's all a crock of shit. Don't believe me? Jesus even said so. He laid out simple and practical ways to judge the merit of a prophet. Are they false prophets and manipulative teachers? You ...
Knockers
January 13, 2022 14:00 - 56 minutes - 54.4 MB"I have abandoned all particular forms of devotion, all prayer techniques. My only prayer practice is attention. I carry on a habitual, silent, and secret conversation with God that fills me with overwhelming joy." -Brother Lawrence Too often do we only see prayer as something that connects us to the divine. Like a suggestion box to the hereafter or a letter to Santa, it's a one-way laundry list of needs. Furthermore, religion has taught us that prayer is a stationary and inert practice ...
The Last Show*
December 31, 2021 21:00 - 56 minutes - 54.4 MB"It's time we reclaimed this wise saying. Our post-Christian culture may very well give us the opportunity to relearn the wisdom of doing so. Communities of followers of Jesus may grow smaller, commitment to his teaching more radical and real, and in time we may look like those with something valuable that others want and will seek to have." ~ Addison Hodges Hart For the past few weeks, we've been journeying through the Sermon on the Mount following the ethics of Jesus and the ways o...
Wiping It Clean
December 15, 2021 14:33 - 56 minutes - 54.3 MB"If 'church' is a place you go, you'll never get there..." ~Chris Kratzer Author, Chris Kratzer is no stranger to Snarky Faith. He's been on several times in the past, and it's always a wild ride. Today, we're discussing his new book: Stupid Sht Heard in Church. It's an audacious book that lives up to its shocking title. In the book, Chris does his best Miley Cyrus' impression as he takes a wrecking ball to conservative evangelical Christianity. He's an ex-pastor that was tired o...
Focused Living
December 01, 2021 15:10 - 56 minutes - 54.4 MB"In our world, there are far more practical atheists who think they are religious than there are theoretically doctrinaire atheists." -Addison Hodges Hart Our lives are full of deadlines, commitments, and responsibilities. Pulled in so many directions - there never seems to be enough time. It's a never ending cycle of busyness. If we don't watch out, that cycle will consume our lives and steal our purpose. Continuing our conversation journeying through the Sermon on the Mount, we see...
Christian Crazy Black Friday
November 26, 2021 13:08 - 26 minutes - 26.5 MBIt's not often you get something for nothing, but this Black Friday, you will. Just in time for the holidays is the Christian Crazy bonus show. It's all free baby. You'll hear the choicest cuts of Christian nuts. The best of the worst in Christianity is here for your listening pleasure. Join us as we mock the pernicious prophets and their attempts to use Jesus to turn a trick and make a buck. They're all horrible, which makes the Christian Crazy all the more fun. Buckle up and get re...
Righteousness on the DL
November 24, 2021 13:37 - 56 minutes - 54.4 MB"The first and basic act of theological work is prayer." - Karl Barth We've all met religious assholes. Some days it's hard to avoid them. You know who I'm talking about, don't you? The ones that act pious and flaunt their faith publicly as if they're scoring points with almighty. Or maybe they're the ones that constantly post pictures of inspiring landscapes with out-of-context scriptures, so you know they're more holy. They come in many shapes and forms, but those who play in piety co...
Dirty Love
November 17, 2021 13:08 - 56 minutes - 54.4 MB"If a house is burning, and a bucket of water is thrown on the blaze and doesn't extinguish the fire, this doesn't mean that water won't put out fire. It means we need more water. And so with nonviolence." - Dorothy Cotton As we continue to work through the Sermon on the Mount, today we tackle oaths, revenge, and enemy love in Matthew 5:33-48. Christ continues his teaching here reframing known scriptures and laws and thrusting them into new ethical directions. Being around Christiani...
Squid Church
November 04, 2021 11:07 - 56 minutes - 54.4 MB"We’ve Already Come Too Far To End This Now.” - Sang-Woo, Squid Game Squid Game is a popular Netflix series from Korea. It tells the story of debt-ridden individuals who are out of last chances when they receive a mysterious invitation to compete in the ultimate game of survival for possibility at a big cash payday and a reversal of fortune. The cutthroat game is ultimately for the viewing pleasure of the rich and powerful. It's a farcical, yet deadly look into the corrupt power struc...
Spirals
September 24, 2021 11:07 - 56 minutes - 54.4 MB"We live lives of hope in the hint of the promise of what is to come... [and] we live lives of faith in the unforeseeable, in the coming of what we cannot see coming.” - John Caputo Is our faith cyclical and repetitive, or does it change, grow, and spiral in new territory. Too often do we treat our faith as a rinse and repeat cycle instead of an evolving journey. Why do we default to the easy approach? I think it has a lot to do with certainty. Following Jesus was never about ...
The Liberty Dumpster Fire
September 17, 2021 11:00 - 56 minutes - 54.4 MB"Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions." - Jerry Falwell Sr. - Founder of Liberty university Liberty University was founded in 1971 by Southern Baptist televangelist Jerry Falwell. Liberty is now the second-largest provider of online education in the US. It was also Falwell, that famously claimed that “Aids is not just God’s punishment for homosexuals. It is God’s punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals.” He was a real sweetheart. Unsurprisingly, Liberty U...
The Beatitudes
September 01, 2021 11:07 - 56 minutes - 54.3 MB"Becoming a child is living the Beatitudes and so finding the narrow gate into the Kingdom" - Henri Nouwen If you're in the game to recapture the Gospels and look at Jesus in a new light, then this is the show for you. For too long has the institutional church hijacked the message of Christ. It's far time we reestablish the "kingdom of Heaven." So how do we do this? It's quite simple. Let us return to the words of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount. It's a way to ground our faith and un...
Begin Again
August 26, 2021 12:00 - 56 minutes - 54.4 MB“Begin at the beginning," the King said, very gravely, "and go on till you come to the end: then stop.” - Lewis Carroll, Alice in Wonderland Sometimes in life, we get lost and lose our bearings. We forget where we are going, what we value, and sometimes we even lose who we are. In those times, it is often best to stop and collect ourselves. Here we can take stock of where we have come from and where we want to go. Otherwise, if we don't stop, we'll just keep pushing through while trying t...
Acceptance or Resignation?
August 18, 2021 14:03 - 1 hour - 61.8 MB"Acceptance does not mean passive resignation. Resignation means giving up because you've decided that there's nothing you can do about your situation, whereas acceptance simply means that you accept that your situation happened." - Psychobabble for Ordinary people, blogger As we make our way through life, we all experience our wins and losses. There's heartache mixed with moments of bliss. That's the human existence. Yet, along the way, those ups and downs leave their marks. They create ...
Acceptance or Resignation?
August 18, 2021 14:03"Acceptance does not mean passive resignation. Resignation means giving up because you've decided that there's nothing you can do about your situation, whereas acceptance simply means that you accept that your situation happened." - Psychobabble for Ordinary people, blogger As we make our way through life, we all experience our wins and losses. There's heartache mixed with moments of bliss. That's the human existence. Yet, along the way, those ups and downs leave their marks. They creat...
Kick Off the Dust
August 12, 2021 20:00 - 59 minutes - 56.8 MB"Well, it's full speed, baby In the wrong direction There's a few more bruises If that's the way You insist on heading" -Mary Jane ~ Alanis Morissette Sometimes along the journey of life, we need a bit of a course correction. Sometimes we acquiesce. Other times, we find ourselves lost, miles off track in a different direction. With faith, it's much the same way. Some of us end up raised in a system that indoctrinates early, while others have it instilled through a spiritual community...
Reconstructing Your Mind
August 04, 2021 11:07 - 1 hour - 58.5 MB"Reconstruction begins with recognizing these cognitive distortions and discovering new and better ways of thinking. If you have thoroughly deconstructed, then theoretically all that remains are mental, emotional, and spiritual voids which are ready to be refilled with new and better information that serves your happiness and allows you to love and give freely. We are never more like Jesus than when we are giving and serving others. John 3:16 says, For God so loved the world, He gave. We sho...
Odd One Out
July 28, 2021 11:07 - 1 hour - 57.8 MB“There is nothing so secular that it cannot be sacred, and that is one of the deepest messages of the Incarnation.” ― Madeleine L'Engle We are all born unique and never meant to blend in, yet, humans spend a lot of time in life trying to fit in and look the same as others. We fear being different and labeled as weird, odd, or sinful. Then, slowly over time, we continue to strive to be something we are not and lose ourselves in the process. What makes you odd may be sacred, and you need t...
How to Have an Enemy
July 14, 2021 11:14 - 56 minutes - 54 MB"To have enemies as a source of liberation—for ourselves and for those who do harm—is to recognize structures of power and their relationship to identity... We have enemies in particular and curious ways, ways that do not make sense within the structures of violent power-keeping around us. Instead, we are people who have set down our lives within the reconciliation of all things." -Melissa Florer Bixler Christianity tells us to love our enemies. Jesus commanded it, but how do we do it, a...