SGExplained
108 episodes - English - Latest episode: over 1 year ago - ★★★★★ - 1 ratingBecome a Paid Subscriber: https://anchor.fm/sg-explained/subscribe
SGExplained follows Rovik, Elliot and Charmian, three regular Singaporeans trying to understand how Singapore is what it is. We explore institutions, histories, events and phenomena in Singapore and get into the details of it all. You'll see Singapore like you never have before.
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Episodes
Season 5 Review
December 18, 2022 04:00 - 31 minutes - 43.2 MBWe can't believe we're finally here but 21 episodes later and it's time to wrap up Season 5 of SGExplained. This is a full banter episode as Charmian, Elliot and Rovik look back on their favourite episodes of the season and discuss some of the fresher elements in the show, including our new co-host Mian. We also look forward to what the series' future could look like and when we will be returning. Tune in now, and send in your feedback to let us know your thoughts as well! ___ Intro Music:...
Peranakan Culture
December 04, 2022 04:00 - 46 minutes - 43.1 MBYou can't talk about Singapore without talking about the Peranakans - a sub-community with a heritage associated with being Straits-born amidst a time of heavy immigration. Elliot, a Peranakan himself, shares his stories of growing up with some exposure to the culture and how he stays in touch with it. In this episode, you can look forward to: Learning about the first Peranakans and how their ancestors came to Singapore (note: there are some traces of slavery as well) Exploring the various...
People with Intellectual Disabilities in Singapore
November 06, 2022 04:00 - 46 minutes - 43.3 MBIn partnership with MINDS MYG, this episode introduces the important People with Intellectual Disabilities (PWID) community in Singapore. We hear from Jessica (not her real name), a caregiver and volunteer about her experience directly, and as you can imagine from previous SGExplained episodes, this gets inspirational very quickly. In this episode, you can look forward to: Getting a more specific definition of what Intellectual Disabilities entail Debunk myths about PWIDs e.g. whether au...
The Communist Threat
October 23, 2022 04:00 - 57 minutes - 52.8 MBIt is impossible to look back at Singapore's history without dealing with its confrontation with the Communist threat. In this episode, we take an objective look at this decisive chapter in our national narrative and how it has come to shape our sense of nationhood. Specifically, look forward to: Understanding why the Chinese population in Singapore were so vulnerable to Communist influence Learning about the political infighting within the PAP that eventually caused the schism to form Bar...
Singapore's Stance on Drugs
October 09, 2022 04:00 - 45 minutes - 41.8 MBThere has been a slew of news announcements lately on Singapore's stance on drugs, especially as some of our neighbours choose to liberalise their policies on substances such as marijuana. We take a look at why Singapore has been insistent on its position on drugs and how we have enacted laws to dissuade offenders. In this episode, you can look forward to: Learning more about Singapore's Opium and Heroin epidemics and how we clamped down against them Getting familiar with the Misuse of Dru...
Talking about LGBTQIA+ Issues
September 25, 2022 04:00 - 40 minutes - 56 MBAs a spiritual sequel to our Section 377A episode, and in recognition of the announced repeal of the section in the penal code, the SGExplained team chats with Gabriel Yeong of Young Out Here, a youth support group for the LGBTQIA+ community in Singapore! We discuss what the upcoming repeal means for the community as well as broader societal issues that continue to be top-of-mind for fellow Singaporeans. In this episode, you can look forward to: Learning about the evolution of spaces for th...
100th Episode Special: Our Shared Values
September 11, 2022 04:00 - 52 minutes - 48.7 MBThank you for being on this amazing journey with us to reach 100 episodes on SGExplained!! It's a big deal for us, and if you are a Day One listener, please let us know so that we can reach out to you and invite you to our show for a chat! For this episode, we go back to the origins of why the show was even started: to explore the Singapore identity and what defines us. Foundational to this is Our Shared Values, a series of five values that have played an outsized role in defining a lot of o...
Mid-Autumn Festival
August 28, 2022 04:00 - 37 minutes - 34.7 MBIf you love mooncakes as much as we do, you will love this episode. The SGExplainers trace the origins of the Mid-Autumn festival and the practices we repeat every year in Singapore. Join us as we discover: What our neighbours in the region celebrate during the same season Why the Mid-Autumn festival makes reference to a rabbit frequently What are some of the upcoming mooncake flavours to pre-order Also, tune into the new Rice & Rise podcast produced by 1UPMedia now! ___ Intro Music: F...
The Singapore Zoo
August 14, 2022 04:00 - 33 minutes - 31 MBWe may have memories of the Singapore Zoo when we were children, but did you know that the overall Mandai Wildlife Group has been staying relevant through its sustainability and conservation efforts? Join us this episode as we: Explore the history of the Zoo, including some of its unfortunate accidents Trace the various unique exhibits in the main zoo Forecast some of the key upcoming developments in the Zoo that we can enjoy ___ Intro Music: From Pixabay; Outro Music: Nielizas from Pix...
Lim Bo Seng
July 31, 2022 04:00 - 24 minutes - 23.1 MBYou may have read about him during your Social Studies class, but as with most historical characters, you may have just scratched the surface of the legend Lim Bo Seng. Join us as we do a character deep-dive into the war hero and learn about some of the critical episodes in his life. In this episode, look forward to: Learning about Lim Bo Seng's early childhood and adult life before the war, and how he pivoted to his wartime role Hearing about Lim Bo Seng's wife and children and the sacrif...
The MRT System
July 17, 2022 04:00 - 40 minutes - 37.8 MBGetting from place to place in Singapore is convenient only because of our great public transportation, including our beloved MRT system! In this episode, the crew share laughs and develop an appreciation for our subway system, with tons of factoids in between. Look forward to: Tracing the story of the subway-that-almost-never-was Learning about some of our MRT's mascots, including Captain SMRT Getting excited for new MRT stations that may open up in your neighbourhood! ___ Intro Music...
Dating in Singapore: Part Two
July 03, 2022 04:00 - 37 minutes - 52.2 MBCharmian and Rovik revisit the topic of dating in Singapore, tracking what's changed four years after the first part was published. We invite Zhi Qun Liu from Kopi Dates, an experience-focused dating platform, to share some of the trends he sees running the platform. Rovik also contributes perspectives from The Hidden Good's Dating for Good programme. In this episode, look forward to: Learn why dating apps are no longer working for many Singaporean singles Appreciate what Singaporean youth...
Visiting Johor Bahru
June 19, 2022 04:00 - 41 minutes - 38.6 MBNow that borders have reopened, Singaporeans have been flocking to Malaysia, specifically to Johor Bahru across the border. In this episode, we reflect on the relationship these two cities share! Look forward to: Learning how many people cross the border each day Unpacking the economic features of the Singapore-Johor Bahru relationship Adding to your list of places to visit in Singapore ___ Intro Music: Wataboi from Pixabay; Outro Music: Nielizas from Pixabay; Sources: Relations betwe...
Potong Ice Cream
June 05, 2022 04:00 - 24 minutes - 34.2 MBThese skinny ice creams on a stick may be slowly dying out but we keep them alive in our latest podcast episode! From pulut hitam to durian to red bean, we go on a journey of flavours to honour one of our favourite desserts in Singapore. In this episode, you can: Learn about the inspiration behind the Potong Ice Cream Follow the manufacturing process for the iconic skinny treat Discover the reasons behind the potential loss of this heritage delicacy ___ Intro Music: Wataboi from Pixabay...
Planning for Death
May 22, 2022 04:00 - 41 minutes - 38.6 MBWe're looking at the full life cycle this season, and so it only makes sense that we look at what happens in Singapore when you die! Zach Leung, Associate Director at PFPA, comes onto our show to shine some light on what happens after we pass on, especially to our assets and our loved ones. In this episode, you will: Learn about the difference between "estate", "trust", and "will", especially in a Singapore context Hear about the different ways your estate can be broken up if you do not pl...
Tiger Beer
May 08, 2022 04:00 - 39 minutes - 36.4 MBYou've probably heard the phrase "It's Tiger Time" while you were growing up in Singapore. Tiger Beer is one of Singapore's most valuable brands and a globally recognised beverage, renowned for its bold campaigns and its reliable flavours. In this episode, you can look forward to: Learn about the history of Tiger Beer, including its involvement in World War Two Follow some of Tiger Beer's major brand campaigns and its influence on society Compare the iconic brand with other emerging loca...
Taxi Drivers
April 24, 2022 04:00 - 34 minutes - 31.8 MBWho can deny that taxi drivers are Singapore's master storytellers? We get the extremely cool opportunity to talk to Uncle Ben, the father of a close friend of Rovik's, who also happens to be a night-shift taxi driver about his storied life on the roads. In this episode, you will: Learn about how many taxi and private hire drivers there are actually in Singapore Hear Uncle Ben's take on the necessary ingredients to be a good taxi driver (and it doesn't include a large bladder) Feel for so...
Beauty Standards in Singapore
April 10, 2022 01:10 - 38 minutes - 35.5 MBHow far would Singaporeans go to look "beautiful"? We speak to Dr Matthew Yap of Myeongdong Medical & Aesthetics about the trends he witnesses in his clinic and his own experience as an aesthetician! In this episode, you will: Learn about beauty standards past and present in Singapore Get familiar with the different types of treatments Singaporeans are going for Contemplate whether cosmetic surgery and aesthetic treatments truly deserve the stigma they have ___ Intro Music: Wataboi from...
The Orang Laut
March 27, 2022 04:15 - 35 minutes - 33.3 MBThe Orang Laut are thought to be one of the first inhabitants of the islands that now make up Singapore, but why do so few people know about them? We chat with Firdaus Sani, founder of Orang Laut SG which is a community sustaining the stories of this lineage, to get the real scoop. In this episode, you can look forward to: Learning about how the Orang Laut were politically significant in pre-colonial times Hearing directly from Firdaus about how life was like on Pulau Semakau, the island...
Giving Birth in Singapore
March 20, 2022 04:00 - 40 minutes - 37.2 MBWe are back with Season 5 and as always, we keep it spicy with a whole episode on giving birth in Singapore. But first, we introduce our new co-host, Charmian Tan - media personality and highly sought after spin instructor who is joining the crew to explore the Singapore Identity! In this episode, you can look forward to: Learning about cultural superstitions on birthing practices Tracing the evolution of KK Women's and Children's Hospital in Singapore (there's a buffalo shed involved) C...
Special Episode: SingLit
February 24, 2022 09:00 - 28 minutes - 39.5 MBThis episode is brought to you by National Library Board’s One Story, which is a National Reading Movement initiative to make Singapore short stories – originally written in Tamil, Malay, Chinese, or English – available in other languages. The project aims to bring these stories to more readers beyond the language communities that they were originally written for. ___ We're taking a break from our break to share with you a special episode on Singapore Literature! Following up on our Poetry...
Season 4 Review
November 17, 2021 04:51 - 22 minutes - 31.3 MBAnother 20 episodes down and we've reached the end of Season 4! Elliot and Rovik reflect on the journey, covering the edgier theme of the season, starting from our Channel News Asia feature on Secret Societies and ending full circle with our episode on Ah Bengs and Ah Lians, bolstered by episodes on Prostitution, Snakes and Prison (among others) along the way. We chat about our favourite episodes, our recommendations on under-rated topics and we give a sneak peek into Season 5 (we are recrui...
Ah Bengs & Ah Lians
November 07, 2021 01:35 - 31 minutes - 29.3 MBThe Australians have their bogans, the British have their chavs and here in Singapore, we have the Ah Bengs and Ah Lians. What makes up this oft caricatured subculture? We chat with content creator Jeremiah Chen from Tropic Monsters TV about what inspires his hilarious sketches on these characters and learn more about how it adds to our Singaporean identity. In the spirit of the content, some expletives are used. Get listening to: Understand the evolution of the Ah Beng/Ah Lian caricature o...
Ghost Stories Part 2
October 30, 2021 08:24 - 33 minutes - 31.4 MBOur first Ghosts in Singapore episode all the way back in Season 1 was a hit with you so we've come back with Part 2 of the Ghost Story collection - hopefully your Halloween is enriched by Elliot and Rovik narrating some of the spookiest tales on the web. In this episode, we look at the stories of: The Bukit Timah Monkey Man and the trail he has left behind The wailing lady of Spooner Road Estate The ghosts and ghouls of the various schools in Singapore You'll see Singapore like you neve...
Heritage Food - Ingredients and Dishes
October 23, 2021 08:57 - 48 minutes - 45 MBPamelia Chia from Singapore Noodles comes onto our show this episode to discuss Heritage Food with us. It is a topic that is novel and complicated only because Singapore is an immigrant nation and we are starting to see a new wave of food evolution with influences from Japanese and European styles. In this lively conversation, we: Discuss what exactly constitutes heritage food in a rapidly changing food environment Go through iconic heritage ingredients such as Pangi and the Roselle Leaf, ...
The Prison System - Road to Rehabilitation
October 16, 2021 10:00 - 47 minutes - 44 MBKeeping to our season's theme of focusing on the edgier sides of Singapore, we look at our prison system where those who have fallen through the cracks or gone astray have to serve their time. It is also an opportunity for them to be rehabilitated and to get a chance to reintegrate back into society as contributing members. Of course, these are easier said than done and we look at the structures and processes in place that govern how inmates make their way back to the Singaporean core. Join...
Sikhism in Singapore
October 09, 2021 14:34 - 1 hour - 59.1 MBSikhs are known as a minority within a minority in Singapore, and yet they have an outsized influence on our identity in Singapore. Join us as we chat with Shaun Sarabjeet Singh, President of the Young Sikh Association, to learn about the history of the Sikh community in Singapore as well as how it integrates into the wider community. In this episode, we: Trace the story of Maharaj Singh, the alleged first Sikh in Singapore who was also a political prisoner Explore the institutions and pra...
Holland Village - Charm of the Town
September 29, 2021 09:48 - 38 minutes - 35.2 MBKatong is to Elliot what Holland Village is to Rovik - a comfortable yet exciting neighbourhood where there are lifestyle options and great food. Join us for our next neighbourhood deep dive as we explore the peculiarities of this part of Singapore including: Debating whether the town is named Holland Village because of random-man Hugh Holland or because there was a notable Dutch population there Understanding the dynamics between Chip Bee Gardens and its tenants since all the properties ...
The Merlion - From Logo to National Symbol
September 23, 2021 00:28 - 37 minutes - 34.9 MBSingaporeans have a mixed set of feelings when it comes to the Merlion - on one hand, it is an increasingly globally recognised icon and a major tourist attraction, and on the other hand, it is a reminder that one of Singapore's biggest symbols comes not from a mythos but from a logo design. Join us this episode as Elliot and Rovik spend this short episode exploring the tale of the Merlion including: Learning about the history of the Merlion as a logo for a government body Following the Me...
Skate Culture
September 14, 2021 10:48 - 39 minutes - 36.7 MBHere's another fringe culture you don't really think about when you consider Singapore but Skate Culture has endured its own challenges to find its place in our cultural tapestry. Hear Elliot reminisce his days picking up the skill and get a peek into a strong community-driven sport. In this episode, we Learn about the skateboarding ban of 1978 and the impact on the culture in Singapore Explore some of the prominent skateparks in Singapore Take a look at how community is a foundation for ...
The Financial Hub Story
September 03, 2021 13:40 - 1 hour - 62 MBWhat's going on at Marina Bay Financial Centre and why is Singapore home to so many "Finance Bros and Brodettes"? In this episode, we're excited to have Reggie Koh from The Financial Coconut Podcast as a guest to chat with us about what really makes Singapore a Finance Hub! We make the jargon simplified so you don't have to wonder what asset management or currency internationalisation means! Tune in to: Learn about how Singapore had the right ingredients for being a finance hub from its pre...
Yishun, The Fabled North
August 28, 2021 07:33 - 35 minutes - 32.7 MBWhat's going on in Yishun? As part of our neighbourhood exploration series, SGExplained takes a deeper look at why Yishun has gotten a reputation as the place where "weird things happen" in Singapore. We find out there may be more hype than substance going on here. Join us in this short episode as we look at: Funny adventures that have occurred in Yishun including the rise of Lord Voldermort Heartwarming developments including Singapore's first dementia-friendly town Perspectives and anal...
Nasi Lemak - Parcel Delight
August 19, 2021 10:05 - 41 minutes - 38.5 MBYou can identify the iconic Nasi Lemak, both by its aromatic coconut scent as well as its unique pyramid-shaped banana leaf packaging. Just coconut rice, sambal chilli and ikan bilis in a parcel, this delightful dish is a big part of Singapore food culture! Join us in this episode as we: Learn about the hilarious alleged origin story of the name Nasi Le, Mak Compare Singaporean and Malaysian versions of the dish Go through some of the main competitors in the Singapore scene! You'll see ...
The Theatre Scene
August 12, 2021 07:25 - 50 minutes - 46.6 MBPlays, musicals and immersive theatre can all be powerful ways to engage audiences, tell stories and change narratives, and in Singapore, we've strived to build such cultural capital through our theatre scene. Join us and THREE special guests from the scene to discuss various aspects of Singapore theatre, including its evolution from traditional forms, its interaction with the Singapore identity and its resilience despite censorship, capital constraints and COVID-19. Our three guests today i...
Operation Tiderace & The Japanese Surrender
August 04, 2021 11:10 - 35 minutes - 33.3 MBWorld War 2 was a dark chapter in Singapore's history and so when the Japanese eventually surrendered, spirits were high amongst the residents. But did you know that there was a probability that the Japanese in Singapore would refuse to surrender despite the Emperor's announcement? Operation Tiderace was the Allied Forces' plan to secure Singapore and claim it back for the British. Check out this action-packed episode to learn about: the original Operation Zipper that was meant to execute a...
SPCA & Animal Welfare
July 24, 2021 01:35 - 40 minutes - 37.8 MBThe Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals is Singapore's first registered animal welfare organisation and an institution for animal rights advocacy in Singapore. We were privileged to have Dr Jaipal, Executive Director of the SPCA, on our show to explore the evolution of the organisation and some of the major issues it's made a stand for. In this episode, we appreciated the grounds-up origins and heritage of the SPCA discussed the nuances of animal rights advocacy, especially wh...
The Foster System
July 15, 2021 07:05 - 38 minutes - 35.4 MBDid you know that there's a community of foster parents in Singapore who contribute as a labour of love to provide safe and nurturing homes for vulnerable children? Frankly, Elliot and Rovik were not very aware before this recording of this incredibly coordinated and involved ecosystem of social workers, policy planners, and families who go the distance to ensure no children are disadvantaged because of unfortunate circumstances. We're especially privileged to have Hannah from TSA Gracehaven...
Wet Markets
July 09, 2021 01:04 - 39 minutes - 36.2 MBYou'll see Singapore like you never have before. Also, SUBSCRIBE to our Substack to get bonus content right in your email - Click Here! Nothing can match an experience through Singapore's wet markets - the washed floors allowing you to slide through the corridors between your fresh vegetable grocer and your mutton butcher. It's an authentic market experience where communities gather and where you build relationships with the people who handle your food. Join Elliot and Rovik as they reflect...
Snakes of Singapore
July 02, 2021 08:44 - 41 minutes - 38.1 MBBiodiversity is important to any country, and in Singapore, we need to talk about our snakes. We're not talking about those folks who gossip behind our backs - this is about the reptiles that are hidden in our parks and wetlands, and are surprisingly not out to harm you! In this episode, we're privileged to have Sankar from the Herpetological Society of Singapore to share his own snake-spotting stories and to bust some myths about these creatures. He calls them cute a couple of times so you ...
Durian - Scourge or Specialty?
June 23, 2021 14:54 - 31 minutes - 28.7 MBYou'll see Singapore like you never have before. Also, SUBSCRIBE to our Substack to get bonus content right in your email - Click Here! The durian, native to Singapore and Southeast Asia, is known as the King of Fruits. Yet, it has a mixed reputation in Singapore, with some chasing down the best harvests while others abstain from it religiously. Elliot and Rovik explore the complexity of the Durian, including: how the British, with the exception of an influential Sir Stamford Raffles, actu...
The Chewing Gum Ban
June 15, 2021 09:42 - 25 minutes - 24 MBSingapore is known internationally for a couple of things and the Chewing Gum ban is high on the list. In this short episode, Elliot and Rovik follow the rather hilarious journey of how chewing gum got banned in Singapore as well as how a certain US company managed to get some gum back on the books. You may get stuck on this one (pun intended!) This episode covers: why chewing gum was actually tolerated for a while before the iconic ban how our MRT system triggered our country's leaders e...
Prostitution
June 09, 2021 09:43 - 54 minutes - 50.3 MBClean, green, and safe don't seem to match with the presence of a prostitution scene in Singapore but you'll be surprised to find out that prostitution has been around in Singapore since its early days. Check out our season premiere to learn about: the Ah Kus, Karayuki-sans, and Pipa girls who were different types of sex workers the various strategies employed by the governments to stamp out or control prostitution how sex work has evolved in Singapore and why there is a "hierarchy" of se...
Special Episode: Secret Societies
May 26, 2021 06:40 - 54 minutes - 50.5 MBWe're known as a crime-free country but have you heard about the history of Secret Societies in Singapore, one of the lesser-known phenomenon of our country's dark underbelly. Hear stories and facts about gangsters and thugs that you'd be surprised about including: the fact that secret societies were actually multi-racial (in proper Singaporean fashion) how coolies became part of the "pig trade", getting caught in vicious cycles of opium and prostitution the tale of Pulau Senang, a penal ...
Season 3 Review
March 14, 2021 08:27 - 21 minutes - 20 MBOnce again, for both our loyal listeners as well as those looking to navigate the season, join Elliot and Rovik as they reminisce on all 20 episodes for this season. We pick our favorite episodes, the most underrated one to recommend, and start to tease both future episodes in Season 4 as well as an upcoming Channel News Asia documentary! Keep in touch during this break and DM us if you have ideas for future ideas, guests, or partnership opportunities! We love our community! --- Support t...
The Tattoo Scene - Fringe or Mainstream?
March 08, 2021 02:23 - 36 minutes - 33.8 MBWe always enjoy the episodes where we look at the "fringe" of Singapore culture, but are tattoos too mainstream here to even be fringe anymore? We chat with Tattoo Artist Beverly Ann Koh (bev.bot on IG) about her experience in the industry and how Singapore has moved to be more inclusive of tattoos. We explore the history of tattoos with gangs, recent trends in tattoos (have you heard of hyper-realism?) as well as some of the industry dynamics here. These are some of our favourite types of c...
Tangs - Cornerstone of Orchard Road
February 28, 2021 03:27 - 26 minutes - 24.3 MBIf you've shopped in Singapore, you've probably been to Tangs - but did you know that the mall was one of the first retail shopping outlets in Orchard? Back when the area near Tangs was mostly cemetery grounds, CK Tang had the vision to convert the area to a shopping destination. Discover why he had such courage and learn about how he evolved his brand from being the Tin Truck Man to being the Curio King. We don't shy away from controversy so you'll get to hear stories of kidnapping and orga...
An Outlook on Ageing
February 18, 2021 11:40 - 39 minutes - 36.9 MBAgeing is a scary topic but it has shaped much of Singapore's landscape in the last few decades. We're privileged to have an advocate and opinion leader, Dr Farhan Alami, come into the virtual studio to share her insights on how ageing and dementia affect not just the elderly but also their families and loved ones. Learn about the statistics surrounding ageing and some of the issues specific to Singapore we try to tackle. We also learn about our uniquely Singaporean approach to ageing and de...
Prata - The Future is Bright
February 11, 2021 09:37 - 19 minutes - 18 MBPicking back up on our food series, we look at the fabled past of Roti Prata, the dish that was gifted to us by the Indian immigrants back in the day. Find out what goes into preparing the dish, including the artistic form needed to stretch the dough, and then get into the debate on whether roti canai (from Malaysia) or roti prata is better. We also look at the numerous variations of prata (including roti milo??) and of course, Elliot and Rovik leave you with some recommendations of where to...
Singtel & Our Early Telecom Days
February 04, 2021 15:06 - 36 minutes - 34.1 MBIf you're reading this, you're probably doing so on the internet and maybe even on your phone. The fact that we have access to telecom and mobile services in Singapore has a lot to owe to Singtel's past, as once our national telecom provider and the largest contributor of infrastructure. Journey with us as we trace how Singtel survived the removal of its monopoly and how it evolved to be one of Singapore's best-known brands. We even explore major controversies such as the Bukit Panjang Fire ...
Speak Good English Movement - Antagonist or Companion to Singlish?
January 30, 2021 10:18 - 33 minutes - 31.1 MBIn a spiritual sequel to our Singlish episode, we look at The Speak Good English Movement, the national campaign to get people in Singapore to speak "standard English". But the campaign has not been without controversy - it was initially seen as a campaign against a core part of the Singapore identity, Singlish. We talk to Melissa Low, Committee Member on the Movement, who shares candidly how the Movement has evolved to embrace Singapore's multi-faceted identity while still continuing to enc...