122: From dairy farmer to animal activist - Vegan FTA's Jackie Norman - Sentientism

Jackie is a former dairy & beef farmer turned full-time animal rights advocate. She is head of communications and a founding board member for the global non-profit, Vegan FTA (For The Animals). She also co-hosts their podcast and live shows. Jackie is also an author and public speaker.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “what matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is here on YouTube.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

- Jordi Casamitjana (https://youtu.be/vtCwoq1XnUg) as a "vegan godfather" :)

02:28 Jackie's Intro

- From beef & dairy farming to animal advocacy & veganism

- Erin Wing (https://youtu.be/NAh1kLrp99Y)

04:20 What's Real?

- Growing up in a UK village in the 1970's

- Naturalist Gilbert White "England's first ecologist?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilbert_White

- Christian community & school "If you're good to go to heaven & if you're bad Satan's going to get you"... "Nobody ever questioned it"

- Fitting in & FOMO "everybody went to church on Sunday"

- Joining the church choir, but not being religious

- Losing son Luke at 2 days old

- "If god loves us all... how come there are all these bad things happening?"

- "Any shred of belief I ever had... just went straight out the window"

- Spirituality? Unexplained things... a clock starting without batteries... "things happening for a reason?"

- "Maybe there's something greater out there... not god"

- Exploring Buddhism after going vegan "All you have to do is just be kind"

- Meditation & Yoga

- "There is such synergy between veganism & Buddhism"

30:38 What Matters?

- Good: "Not being mean... not killing" vs. god compliance

- "I don't think there is a hell..." except for what we do to non-human animals

- Sons coming home from Xtian school saying "god's going to strike me down!"

- Being most authentic & open at times when "I had nothing"

- Buddhism "has taught me not to judge other people... I get a lot of peace from it... being kind."

- "Being compassionate towards yourself is the hardest thing to do"

- Dairy farming: "What they are doing is evil... but you can't write them off as being inherently evil"

- "Everyone's got a reason for being the way that they are"

41:50 Who Matters?

- Killing a spider, terrified, at 8 yrs old, then feeling "mortified that I had ended that life... that's never left me"

- Husband Gareth carries a card to rescue bees with

- Reading an IWAF leaflet about seal culling

- Going vegetarian in 1987 after a Viva campaign on factory farming

- "I couldn't believe that humans could be so cruel"

- Father going shooting, being attacked by animal activists

...and much more. Full show notes at Sentientism.info.

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Thanks Graham.