At various stages in the mid-20th century there was a notion that New Zealand's race relations held up better than other comparable countries, say - Australia and South Africa. But in her new book Invisible: New Zealand's History of Excluding Kiwi-Indians, Jacqui Leckie digs deep into the myriad of legislative and societal methods used to discriminate against Indian immigrants to New Zealand - and their descendants. Jacqui joins Susie to talk about her warts-and-all book, which is an examination of the real impacts racism has had - and continues to have - on the lives of Indian-Kiwis.