Immigration : where do we go from here?

Kathryn speaks with Massey University demographer and Distinguished Professor Paul Spoonley about where New Zealand's immigration policy is heading. He says the years prior to the Covid 19 pandemic saw record migration here, and he does not support a return to that. But now that the door is open to Australia, are we going to see an outflow across the Tasman? And what do we do about skills and labour shortages?