Redemptive Living Radio
85 episodes - English - Latest episode: 7 days ago - ★★★★★ - 156 ratingsLooking for hope and redemption after sexual betrayal? Then this is the podcast for you! We’re Shelley and Jason Martinkus, authors of four books, including Worthy of Her Trust and we’ve been there. We’re nearly two decades into our own recovery work, and have dedicated our lives to helping other men, wives and marriages on the journey toward wholeness. With candor, vulnerability and authenticity we want to walk with you, too! Tune in as we address the highs and lows, the hard questions and the challenges couples face as they pursue redemptive living.
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Episodes
#80: The Shame She Experiences
April 19, 2024 08:00 - 52 minutes - 53.4 MBSo here we are! The final episode of Season #6. We start with me needing to loop back to something we discussed in the last episode where Jason said he received feedback from someone saying that sometimes when Jason mentions the past / the timeline, that he is shaming me. While I don’t think he is trying to shame me - I DO experience shame when certain parts of our story is mentioned. I wanted to share a point of clarification that didn’t come to me until after we had stopped recording ...
#79: Holding Her Hostage
April 12, 2024 11:40 - 39 minutes - 42.7 MBIn this episode - we talk about how he can hold her hostage in the recovery process. We discuss this concept, of him holding her hostage, two different ways (or avenues or angles or well, you get the point). The first avenue is how Jason interprets “holding her hostage” which essentially is him holding her hostage for his past wounds and holding her accountable and responsible to heal his past wounds. This certainly was a dynamic that Jason and I dealt with while we were dating as we...
Regrouping + Resourcing
April 05, 2024 12:51 - 11 minutes - 20.3 MBIt’s just me today, popping in to let you know we will be back next week with a fresh episode. I am sharing the quickest of life updates with you guys plus a reminder about a couple of resources that we offer. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6. For those of you that are new here, check out Episode #1 for Our Story. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here. Would love for you to consider joining me at the Fall 2024 Retreat - you c...
Regrouping + Resources
April 05, 2024 12:51 - 11 minutes - 20.3 MBIt’s just me today, popping in to let you know we will be back next week with a fresh episode. I am sharing the quickest of life updates with you guys plus a reminder about a couple of resources that we offer. We are so glad YOU are here, thanks for joining us for Season #6. For those of you that are new here, check out Episode #1 for Our Story. Make sure you download the Podcast Freebies! You can do that here. Would love for you to consider joining me at the Fall 2024 Retreat - you c...
#78: Going Into Public with Confidence
March 29, 2024 07:00 - 52 minutes - 52.9 MBAs we dig into the content of this particular episode - please keep in mind that these situations are SO nuanced. So please take what we are sharing and consider how it applies to you. What we share will not work for everyone in every situation. #1 - Clearly End the Affair - Our first suggestion for regaining confidence and to be able to go back out into the community with your head high is to consider utilizing a technique from I Don’t Love You Anymore (link below). In the ...
#77: Making Friends with the Work
March 22, 2024 07:00 - 34 minutes - 39 MBAs Jason said early on in this episode - recovery work is painful. It hurts, it’s scary and no wonder we resist it. Jason talks about how he went from resisting the recovery work to accepting that there was work to do. It’s in this process that we make friends with the work. As Thomas Berry, a coach on our team, says - we go from “got to TO get to”. How we make friends with the work: 1 - When recovery calls, we answer the call. 2 - Embrace that it's going to hurt. 3 - We make time...
#76: The Duality of Hope
March 15, 2024 07:00 - 44 minutes - 46.5 MBBasically, I try to take over during the first five minutes of the episode as I talk about hope. Then I pass the mic over to Jason and you will probably actually like what he says much more. I just try to sprinkle in anecdotal comments as I can, you’re welcome. Hope is a handhold for wives in the following ways… 1 - it gives women a sense of security in the middle of what is a very chaotic experience. 2 - it can reconcile staying. 3 - it can be a reprieve from the chaos that she is...
#75: Where Empathy Develops
March 08, 2024 08:00 - 42 minutes - 44.9 MBGet out your thinking caps - this episode is heady and I had to rewind many many times to re-listen while I was working on these show notes. We are talking empathy (and intimacy and conviction) today. I believe that empathy is one of the key ingredients that will help her heart heal within the context of the couple-ship. So developing empathy is KEY. We talk neuroanatomy: prefrontal cortex, mirror neurons, cortical hypofrontality and modeling of empathy from others. We also talk bibli...
#74: Intimacy Pays Dividends
March 01, 2024 08:00 - 49 minutes - 43.3 MBIn this episode, we get real honest about a recent series of arguments we had about money, with the intent of sharing with you guys what engaging in conflict can look like in “late recovery”. Not that we do conflict perfectly or recovery perfectly (as you will surely hear) but we get questions about what life looks like today - years and years post betrayal and with a lot of recovery work under our belts, collectively. We laugh a LOT today. And we have a really sweet marriage. And we STI...
#73: The Value of Full Disclosure
February 23, 2024 08:00 - 40 minutes - 36.3 MBIn this episode, we talk about the value of the full disclosure and some of the reasons that doing a full disclosure (for both him and for her) is incredibly beneficial. Here are some of those reasons: - for men: integration of the story and the acting out - as in, making sense of and connecting dots in his story as a whole which informs the recovery and healing process - for men: writing out our stories has been shown via research to help with the healing process at a cellular level ...
#72: Frontloading For Her
February 16, 2024 08:00 - 37 minutes - 41.1 MBIn this episode, we piggyback off of the last episode on Frontloading and discuss how women can leverage this technique in order to feel safe having certain conversations with him. This technique is essentially giving him a heads up that a difficult conversation needs to be had + insuring he is in an open space to have said conversation well in advance of it starting. I love this technique because it serves as an insurance policy to help protect her from additional hurt and pain. (And can al...
#71: Frontloading
February 09, 2024 08:30 - 34 minutes - 39.2 MBIn this episode, we talk about Frontloading, a term we first heard from Jennifer Kolari after doing some parenting therapy with her. See the link below for her information. Frontloading is the conversation we have prior to an anticipated event (or an anticipated conversation). Keep in mind, it's about a heart attitude, not about a playbook / plan / script. This heart attitude says two things: 1 - Empathy and tenderness will inform me going into this situation well, and 2 - I don’t have to ...
#70: When She Feels Stuck
February 02, 2024 08:00 - 36 minutes - 30.8 MBIn this episode, we talk about her getting stuck and how this can be (not always, but can be) connected to him NOT doing good, consistent work. Jason recaps a couple of things from episode #68 - What is Good Work (definitely check out that episode if you want to learn more about what “good” work looks like - see the link below.) We discuss four big things that can cause her to get stuck in the process (when he is not doing good work). These include: 1 - When there isn’t clarity on if he ...
#69: In the Dilemma
January 26, 2024 08:00 - 41 minutes - 44.3 MBSo, let’s say he is doing mostly good work. Oftentimes when he is doing this mostly good work, women are faced with a dilemma. Does she accept the good work and lean into it and trust it? OR does she hold him / the good work at arm’s length and continue to watch and wait and keep herself safe? We start with exploring some of the reasons she runs into this dilemma. These include: 1 - Unconscious tug of war happening in her heart. 2 - Vows she has made to herself. 3 - Not knowing if she...
#68: What exactly IS good work?
January 19, 2024 08:00 - 38 minutes - 42.1 MBSo what exactly is good work? And what does good work look like AFTER the initial stages? Because it seems like some husbands rock that good work early on - and then… they are done?! Jason and I are both encouraging you guys to honestly assess: are the things we list happening in my / his recovery process? And if not - what might it look like to get back on track? Some of the “good work” is objective (for instance, the formal disclosure or the amount of acting in). But a lot of this “good ...
#67: Why I Chose to Stay
January 12, 2024 08:00 - 48 minutes - 50.1 MBIn this episode - we are diving in to a question that Shelley receives quite regularly - why did you stay? And were you / are you embarrassed that you chose to stay? We start with talking about some of the reasons that can make it embarrassing to stay - for instance, in our culture - there is this notion that when a woman is cheated on, there must be something wrong with her / something she did. I loved it when Jason said - “no amount of bad marriage necessitates or drives infidelity or be...
#66: Dealing with Relapses
January 05, 2024 18:25 - 48 minutes - 50.2 MBIt’s show time! Here we go - Season #6 of Redemptive Living Radio is HERE. On this first episode of the season, we are talking about relapses. I realize this can be a super tender topic on all fronts. Here are some of the questions we answer: 1 - What is a relapse? - In some ways, a relapse is VERY clear and in some instances, it can seem a bit arbitrary. I think what is key is to look at the primary, secondary and tertiary markers / threats - see episode #23 - Primary, Secondary...
#65: Navigating the Holidays
November 22, 2023 03:39 - 49 minutes - 50.8 MBWelcome back to the podcast!!! We wanted to jump in and do a bonus podcast for you guys ahead of the release of Season #6 which will air in January, 2024. While it really is a topic near and dear to Jason’s heart - it’s also a PSA for ALL of us as we prepare to be with extended family over Thanksgiving and Christmas. The holidays can be really challenging - no matter what - and then throw in Family Systems (see below) + recovery and it’s a LOT. The happy holidays can feel like the not s...
#64: NOT Going Back to the Way it Was
July 14, 2023 09:00 - 45 minutes - 47.9 MBThis week on RL Radio - NOT going back to the way it was This is the final episode of Season #5. We had a hard time putting a pin in this Season - we had so much fun laughing with each other (and hopefully with you guys as you listened in). I also realize that we bring out the tears in a lot of our listeners, so for that - well, I’m grateful that you were able to grieve and connect and know that we love you all! I wanted us to loop back to Episode #60 where Jason talked about the rubric ...
#63: Moving Towards Divorce - Part 2
July 07, 2023 09:00 - 31 minutes - 36.6 MBThis week on RL Radio - Part Two of Moving Toward Divorce with Elizabeth Picking up where we left off, I start out with a quick recap of what we discussed in part one and then we continue to dig into more of what it looks like to journey well including having hope. Elizabeth mentions this CS Lewis quote - “One day all the sad things will become untrue.” In other words - holding onto hope includes keeping our eyes on the end goal and NAMING those end goals. Elizabeth challenged the listener...
#62: Moving Towards Divorce - Part 1
June 30, 2023 08:00 - 31 minutes - 36.3 MBThis week on RL Radio: Moving Toward Divorce - Part 1 We are delighted to have another conversation with Elizabeth from the RLW team! As you will hear, we recorded this episode in May on her, as she said, “would be” anniversary. Oh, the timing. We didn’t know this when we recorded the episode, but our podcast producers shared recently that Elizabeth’s first time on our podcast (Episode #48, linked below) is the most listened to episode! I am SO not surprised. We received several que...
#61: Holding Her in High Esteem
June 23, 2023 08:00 - 38 minutes - 41.9 MBThis week on RL Radio - Holding Her in High Esteem How can he hold her in high esteem? Being able to do this is - per Jason, a "quick win" and something guys can start doing today to make a difference in the coupleship and in their recovery. Typically, because of the pain he is experiencing, he will disparage her (to offset the pain). To do this - he needs to focus initially on his own heart and mind - and if he is focusing on her flaws, highlighting her hurts, and bemoaning her brokenness...
#60: A Rubric for Living Out Recovery in Life
June 16, 2023 08:00 - 37 minutes - 41.6 MBThis week on RL Radio - A Rubric for Living Out Recovery in Life What does it look like to "live out recovery” in day to day life? Maybe he is going to groups, getting therapy, not acting out - which is all great. But sometimes (oftentimes) - that can be all that is different. He is doing life the way he’s always done it otherwise. (And side note: this does not promote the rebuilding of trust, safety, or MANY of the things she needs to heal! I’m just not going to mince my words - it simply...
#59: Holding the Tension Between Two Truths
June 09, 2023 09:00 - 37 minutes - 41.3 MBThis week on RL Radio - Holding the Tension Between Two Truths In this episode we talk about holding the tension between two truths. This can be a challenge for men in recovery because of the compartmentalization that occurs with addiction. (A big part of recovery is integration - as in, breaking down those boxes.) Holding the tension between two truths is one of several ways we can work on decompartmentalization. Holding two truths can also help when there is catastrophizing in the recove...
#58: God, Where Are You? - Part 2
June 02, 2023 07:00 - 43 minutes - 46.1 MBThis week on RL Radio - Thomas’s story - Part Two In part two, we pick up with where we left off with one more of Thomas’s rock bottoms (in addition to the others mentioned in Part One) that became a pivotal part of his upward trajectory. Ultimately, Thomas hit a place of complete surrender which propelled him toward change, movement and growth. Thomas also shares some of the areas he needed to grow in as well as the lessons he learned + what life looks like today. We are so grateful f...
#57: God, Where Are You? – Part 1
May 26, 2023 18:16 - 44 minutes - 47.2 MBThis week on RL Radio - Thomas’s story - Part One Trigger Warning: We want to make sure that you protect yourself (and your children) if you choose to listen to this episode. Thomas shares his story, starting from when he was seven years old - exposed to pornography followed by years of masturbation and progressing from there. The first twenty minutes of this episode are heart breaking but also very important and sacred and we are grateful that Thomas and Emma agreed to share their story w...
#56: Empower Series - A "Who Knows" of Hope
May 19, 2023 10:00 - 41 minutes - 44.2 MBThis week on RL Radio - part three of the Empowerment Miniseries - A “Who Knows” of Hope Oh my goodness, enjoy the first five minutes of the episode as you get a first-hand glimpse into the communication issues that are Jason and Shelley. If you don’t need any more laughs in your day, feel free to fast-forward to just shy of five minutes and you’ll be okay - except the communication issues persist so, well, buckle up. As for the podcast episode - what we dig into is this: What does it lo...
#55: Empower Series - Reclaiming What Was Lost
May 12, 2023 08:00 - 31 minutes - 36.3 MBThis week on RL Radio - part two of the Empower miniseries - Reclaiming What Was Lost {Side note: this episode made me laugh several times while I was doing these show notes. Whatever you do, listen to the very, very end of the episode. Hilarious.} We start by chatting about all the things that were lost: locations, memorable events, the entire marriage, innocence and purity, joy and hope, certain relationships. Basically - it feels like everything. So, what do we do? How do we reclaim...
#54: Empower Series - Fearing “Attractive” Women
May 05, 2023 07:00 - 37 minutes - 41.6 MBThis week on RL Radio - we start our Empowerment Miniseries - starting with a question we have received multiple times - how can we get over the legitimate fear of seeing and interacting with “attractive” women in public. Because betrayal is an assault on our mind, heart, body and soul - most women feel exposed and discarded and less than. This makes it incredibly scary to go back into public and face other women. As we prepped for this podcast episode, I appreciate what Jason said - “this...
#53: Adversarial Language + Avoiding Conversations
April 28, 2023 10:00 - 47 minutes - 55 MBThis week on RL Radio - we start by talking about adversarial language. Jason gives a lot of examples - “swim toward the sharks”, “stand in front of the firing line”, “she’s on the gurney”, “tossing him grenades". Jason then explains some of the reasons this can be an issue including - it makes the wife the enemy and dehumanizes her. It also puts him (the husband) in a passive place versus an active participant in her healing. Instead, we want to encourage husbands to pivot toward this: an...
#52: Dropping the Rope
April 21, 2023 10:00 - 45 minutes - 47.4 MBThis week on the RL Radio Podcast - we talk about a place a lot of women find themselves in: doing her recovery work AND his recovery work at the same time. While this might “work” for a while, at some point - she will be exhausted, worn out, and a shell of herself. So what does it look like for her to drop the rope if he isn’t doing the work? And one note: dropping the rope and dropping the hammer are two different things. Jason got confused, thought they were one in the same - but they are...
#51: Taking the Blame Versus Taking Ownership - Part 2
April 14, 2023 16:01 - 43 minutes - 51.3 MBThis week on the RL Radio podcast - part two of the two-part series on what it looks like when he takes the blame versus what it looks like for him to take ownership. In this episode, we focus on the latter, taking ownership. I love this episode and I hope you love it, too! For a real life example - we discuss our lovely turquoise, tweed couch and how Jason took the blame initially via victim AND martyr. (Ladies - CRAZY making!!!) Here are three principles he can use to pivot from blame...
#50: Taking the Blame Versus Taking Ownership - Part 1
April 07, 2023 14:00 - 33 minutes - 42.3 MBWelcome back to RL Radio! We are starting this fifth season with a two part series on what it looks like when he takes the blame versus what it looks like for him to take ownership. In this first episode, we break down what it looks like to take the blame. Specifically this can look like taking the role of the victim (think: passive and not even checking the box) or taking the role of the martyr (think: attacking and checks the box but with the wrong heart attitude). What this does to he...
#49: When Everything Feels Tainted + the Lens We Use
August 12, 2022 18:12 - 48 minutes - 49.8 MBIn this final episode of season #4 - we talk about the importance of him validating the totality of her experience - not just what she has experienced since D-day but before then as well. Here is what we know - women need validation (as they look in the rear view mirror) and view everything as catastrophic before they can look back and see anything that is good. During our conversation - we take some time to talk about equanimity. We talked about equanimity in this podcast if you want ...
#48: After a Marriage Ends
July 22, 2022 09:00 - 58 minutes - 58 MBOn this episode we have our VERY special and FIRST guest on our podcast, Elizabeth! She is one of our amazing coaches here at Redemptive Living for Women. I'm so excited to share our conversation, as I want all of you women out there to know there is hope for you, whether your marriage survives or not. Elizabeth paints word pictures for us as we discuss her journey of the past five years. From the ideal couple - to betrayal - to hoping there would be change - to being released from ...
#47: When He Chooses Not to do the Work
July 15, 2022 16:00 - 46 minutes - 48.5 MBIn this episode we wanted to talk about what to do when he chooses not to do the work. Warning: we get off track a lot. We start with talking about contradictions in the Bible - for instance: Ephesians 4:26 says - Don’t let the sun go down on your anger. However, Psalm 4:4 says - be angry yet don’t sin. Think about it overnight and remain silent. Contradictions. This applies to the betrayal recovery process in that sometimes its hard to know: do I give him grace? Or do I use t...
New Episode Coming Next Week
July 08, 2022 09:00 - 55 seconds - 12 MBHi all! We're a little behind on recording, so our next new episode will be out next friday.
#46: Wondering is Work
July 01, 2022 18:56 - 44 minutes - 46.7 MBIn this episode, we talk about how hard it is for her as she is wondering: is he doing recovery work? Or not? Some of the things women wonder about: is he cheating on me today? what if he is just checking the box? is he really living with integrity when I am not around? is he actually applying what we are investing time and money to learn? what is he doing when he isn’t with me? is he standing up for me and honoring me when he is with our children? the list goes on… it’s a L...
#45: Forgiveness - Part Two
June 24, 2022 09:00 - 41 minutes - 44.4 MBWe start this episode with a big announcement - the 2nd RLW retreat will be in Scottsdale, AZ October 6th-9th. I really hope you will consider joining me! Ticket sales go live on July 2nd but we will be opening up tickets to the wait list prior to this date. Click here to join the waitlist. We then get sidetracked talking about some of our favorite restaurants in the Scottsdale area: The Farm at South Mountain, Bandera - which apparently closed this year, and Luci’s at the Grove I wa...
#44: Forgiveness - Part One
June 17, 2022 14:36 - 43 minutes - 46.2 MBIn this episode, we talk about all things forgiveness. This is one of my favorite topics in the betrayal recovery realm and I realize that we are just barely skimming the surface here. I start with sharing a bit of my forgiveness story, just to give all you listeners a bit of context on where I am coming from. Bottom line: initially I saw forgiveness as THE solution and so my second run at forgiveness, I chose to take it very slowly, as I knew I had to do it differently. Som...
#43: Pressure to Have Sex
June 10, 2022 10:43 - 44 minutes - 47.2 MBIn this episode, we talk about what to do when he is pressuring her to have sex. We chose to look at this through the lens of desiring for change, healing, and care for her. Bottom line - if he is putting pressure on her to have sex - it’'s a signal of something deeper going on within him that needs to be explored. We do a lot of talking and ultimately identify and discuss: 1 - The tells that there is something deeper going on within him that needs to be addressed. 2 - What...
#42: Intimacy Aversion - When He Is Withholding Sex
June 03, 2022 09:00 - 44 minutes - 46.7 MBIn this episode, we talk about when he is withholding sex during recovery. While this might not be as common as men that will hypersexualize their wives, it’s still something that we see and it’s important to give space to this piece of the puzzle because it is INCREDIBLY painful and confusing for her. We start with talking about the underpinnings of withholding sex. Jason gives five different reasons that he sees that can contribute to this and I think it’s important to note that the inti...
#41: When He Leaves Her Behind
May 27, 2022 09:00 - 40 minutes - 43.8 MBOkay you guys - this was another really hard episode to record. We started in our podcast studio (aka my office) and then had to move to our bedroom. Upon setting up camp in our bedroom, we kept getting interrupted - by a puppy, by our children, by a vacuum cleaner. Thank goodness for Mary and Christa, our podcast producers - I am sure they had their work cut out for them on this one. In this episode, we talk about a phenomenon we see in the recovery process where he gets too far ou...
#41 - When He Leaves Her Behind
May 27, 2022 09:00 - 40 minutes - 43.8 MBOkay you guys - this was another really hard episode to record. We started in our podcast studio (aka my office) and then had to move to our bedroom. Upon setting up camp in our bedroom, we kept getting interrupted - by a puppy, by our children, by a vacuum cleaner. Thank goodness for Mary and Christa, our podcast producers - I am sure they had their work cut out for them on this one. In this episode, we talk about a phenomenon we see in the recovery process where he gets too far ou...
#40: Mid-Recovery - Making the difference between surviving and thriving
May 20, 2022 09:00 - 45 minutes - 47.4 MBIn this episode - our special guest is struggling at the beginning of the episode. It doesn’t last long, thank goodness. Hang tight during the first couple of minutes. As for what we talk about: it’s all about mid recovery. Such an incredibly important part of the process - it will determine whether you survive versus whether you thrive. We start by clarifying the difference between early-recovery and mid-recovery - here is a bit of an outline: Early Recovery includes: - ...
#39: Rebuilding Trust - The Practicalities
May 13, 2022 09:00 - 34 minutes - 38.9 MBIn this episode - we give a quick recap of episode #38 (since it’s the foundation) and then dig into more of the practicalities of rebuilding trust. Here are five things we focus on: - It’s the little things, not just the big ticket things that matter. - Your personal positives can’t outweigh the relational positives. - Showing it’s on your mind more than it’s on hers. - When it’s the hardest it counts the most. - Showing it’s born out of your character change....
#38: Rebuilding Trust - Heart Attitude + Mindset
May 07, 2022 01:54 - 35 minutes - 28.8 MBIn this episode - we talk about one facet of rebuilding trust. Jason mentions that the lack of trust for her is rooted in fear. I struggle with this (as you will hear at the beginning of the episode) because it feels like the issue is on her (ladies - I am here for you and standing up for YOU). Once we get over that hump - here are several things he can do to love the fear out of her: - Trust is destroyed at her expense, trust is rebuilt at his expense - Jason talks about a hobby th...
#37: Sexual Intimacy
February 25, 2022 22:00 - 31 minutes - 36.5 MBIn this episode - we talk about sexual intimacy post-betrayal. Here are just a couple of the things we discuss: - Allow it to be wonky and work toward decreasing the pressure to make this part of the relationship perfect - as I (Shelley) mention in the podcast - let it be life work. - We discuss frequency - should it be every 72 hours? What about depriving one another (see 1 Corinthians 7:5)? - Triggers for him and for her when engaging in sexual intimacy. Ultimately - it’s importa...
#36: Protecting Our Children
February 18, 2022 10:00 - 36 minutes - 40.4 MBIn this episode, we are going to skim the surface on how we as adults can protect our children from exposure to pornography. Please know that this isn’t a space where we need to judge each other but rather where we can link arms and help each other protect our children. Here are the high points: What is so very important is to be talking about it - we expound on this in the episode and talk a bit about how talking to our children progresses as they get older. Naming shame and developing ...
#35: Reintegrating the Dark Side
February 11, 2022 10:00 - 42 minutes - 45.1 MBWe start with a very quick appliance update even if Jason thinks nobody cares. I know otherwise! As for the episode: Does your husband or x-husband tell you there is no reason to talk about the sexual integrity issue because he doesn’t struggle anymore? This is something we hear quite often and it sends red flags off in my (Shelley’s) head in a major way. We unpack how this impacts her (it can be super invalidating and scary) as well as what might be driving him to say this (fear, sham...