Decoder with Nilay Patel artwork

Decoder with Nilay Patel

1,187 episodes - English - Latest episode: 16 days ago - ★★★★ - 2.4K ratings

Decoder is a new show from The Verge about big ideas — and other problems. Verge editor-in-chief Nilay Patel talks to a diverse cast of innovators and policymakers at the frontiers of business and technology to reveal how they’re navigating an ever-changing landscape, what keeps them up at night, and what it all means for our shared future.

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How Amazon runs Alexa, with Dave Limp

October 12, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

My guest today is Dave Limp, the senior vice president of devices and services at Amazon – or, more simply, the guy in charge of Alexa. Dave’s group at Amazon also includes the Kindle e-reader, the Ring and Blink security camera systems, the Eero wifi router, and a host of other products that connect to Amazon services.  We wanted to know what the business behind Alexa looks like — Amazon sells Echo products at basically break even, it runs the Alexa for all of them for free, and it employs t...

Land of the Giants: This Changes Everything

October 07, 2021 14:39 - 33 minutes

In Land of the Giants: The Apple Revolution, Recode’s Peter Kafka explores the company that changed what a computer is — and then changed what a phone is. From its beginnings as a niche personal computer company, Apple became the preeminent maker of consumer tech products, a cultural trendsetter, and the most valuable company in the world. And along the way, it changed the way we live. Listen to Land of the Giants on Spotify, Apple or wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more about your ad ...

Waymo co-CEO Tekedra Mawakana on how to get self-driving taxis to the mall

October 05, 2021 10:00 - 36 minutes

Waymo is working on self-driving taxis. Which is a huge deal. Ridesharing apps like Uber and Lyft have remade cities, allowed people to give up their cars, and generally connected the buttons you push on your phone to real things happening in the world more directly than almost any other app. Nilay Patel talked to Tekedra Mawakana, co-CEO of Waymo, about expanding Waymo’s service to other cities, the hurdles in place, and how she thinks the company will make money over time. We also talked ab...

John Carreyrou’s final chapter on the Theranos scandal

September 28, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

Nilay Patel talks to John Carreyrou about his reporting on Theranos from his Wall Street Journal articles that broke the scandal in 2015 to his podcast covering the trial of Elizabeth Holmes today. Links: Bad Blood: The Final Chapter Theranos’ greatest invention was Elizabeth Holmes Elizabeth Holmes is on trial for fraud ov...

How F*ck You Pay Me is empowering creators

September 21, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

We talk a lot about the creator economy here on Decoder and one thing we’ve learned from all those conversations is that the creator economy is a market just like any other, with supply and demand, but that it’s also a market that is absolutely starved of information. So today I’m talking to Lindsey Lee Lugrin, the co-founder and CEO of a new platform called Fuck You Pay Me, which is an all-time great company name. FYPM is an app for creators to review and compare brand deals: what brands are...

It's brutal out here: Olivia Rodrigo and how the music business makes songwriters fight over credits

September 15, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

This week on Decoder we are doing something a little different. We're talking with Charlie Harding, co-host of the podcast Switched on Pop a podcast about pop music, about the state of the music industry particularly as it relates to copyright. The conversation is framed around Olivia Rodrigo's debut album Sour and why she keeps handing out songwriting credits months after the album was released. This is kind of a hybrid between an episode of Decoder and an episode of Switched on Pop. We play...

How Slack changed Apple’s employee culture, with Zoë Schiffer

September 07, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

Apple has had a lot going on lately: we did a whole episode about the controversial child protection photo scanning features, which have now been delayed. A law in South Korea might force the company to change how App Store payments work; the company settled a Japanese case about the App Store recently, as well as a class-action lawsuit in this country. The verdict in the Epic trial will arrive and there are renewed questions about Apple’s relationship with the Chinese government. And, of cou...

Everything you need to know about the global chip shortage

August 31, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

Since the beginning of the pandemic, the demand for microchips has far exceeded supply, causing problems in every industry that relies on computers. And if you’re a Decoder listener, you know that that is every industry. Right now, major automakers have unfinished cars sitting in parking lots waiting for chips to be installed. Game consoles like the PS5 and Xbox Series X are impossible to find. And even things like microwaves and refrigerators are impacted, because they contain simple control...

The quirks and features of YouTube car reviews with Doug DeMuro

August 24, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

Nilay Patel talks with Doug DeMuro, who reviews cars on YouTube for almost 10 years. Nilay and Doug talk about the economics of YouTube, how Doug feels about the platform, and about the new company he co-founded called Cars and Bids. Read the transcript: Decoder is produced by Creighton DeSimone, Alexander Charles Adams and Andrew Marino. We are edited by Callie Wright. Our music is by Breakmaster Cylinder. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastcho...

Meet the self-driving brains working with Ford and Volkswagen

August 17, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

Today I'm talking to Bryan Salesky, the cofounder and CEO of Argo AI, a startup that's trying to build the tech stack for self-driving cars. Argo just launched a small fleet of robotaxis in Miami and Austin in partnership with Lyft. I wanted to talk to Bryan about his partnership with Lyft, but I also wanted to know if the pandemic accelerated any of his investment or development the way we have seen in other industries. After all, the proposition of having a taxi all to yourself is pretty en...

Here’s why Apple’s new child safety features are so controversial

August 10, 2021 17:42 - 1 hour

Nilay Patel is joined by Riana Pfefferkorn and Jennifer King to talk about Apple's new child safety features. Riana and Jen are both researchers at Stanford and between the two of them have expertise in encryption policies and consumer privacy issues. Guest Bio: Riana Pfefferkorn: Jennifer King: Links: Apple reveals new efforts to fight child abuse imagery:

YouTube's Chief Product Officer Neal Mohan on the algorithm, monetization, and future for creators

August 03, 2021 16:00 - 1 hour

On today’s episode I’m talking with Neal Mohan, the chief product officer at YouTube. And there’s a lot to talk about – YouTube is announcing a $100 million fund to begin paying creators who use YouTube Shorts, which is its competitor to TikTok. YouTube remains the default video hosting platform for the entire internet, in a way can feel almost invisible, like it’s a utility, like water, or electricity. And on top of all that, there are YouTubers – that particular kind of influencer at the ce...

Chuck Todd on why Meet the Press can’t survive on just one platform

July 27, 2021 10:00 - 51 minutes

This week Nilay Patel talks to Chuck Todd, the political director at NBC News and moderator of Meet The Press, the longest running television show in the country. Seriously: Meet the Press started in 1946, and Chuck is only the 12th moderator the show’s ever had. As streaming upends television, he’s expanding Meet The Press from a single weekly show where Chuck interviews politicians to an entire roster of formats. There’s Meet the Press, Meet The Press Daily on MSNBC, Meet the Press Reports ...

How Blackstone became the darling of grill TikTok with CEO Roger Dahle

July 20, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

Nilay Patel encountered the name Blackstone on TikTok last year, just as the pandemic lockdowns were starting. He saw people posting videos smashing burgers and making pancakes outside on a griddle frequently with the caption “I finally got a Blackstone.” 20 minutes ago he hadn’t even heard about this thing, and now he was late to a trend? So he bought one. And hasn’t used his regular grill in over a year. Nilay sat down with the CEO of Blackstone products and inventor of the Blackstone gridd...

Can Polestar design a new kind of car company?

July 13, 2021 10:00 - 57 minutes

We are back after our week off, and we’ve got a good one today. On this episode I’m talking to Thomas Ingenlath, CEO of Polestar, a new car company with close family ties to Volvo. We talked a lot about what kind of company Polestar is — it’s pretty small, and has the ability to rethink a lot of things about how a car company is organized, while having the ability to fall back on a larger company if needed. We also talked a lot about what makes a car company a car company, at a time when ever...

Land of the Giants: Delivery Wars

July 06, 2021 10:00 - 34 minutes

While Decoder is on vacation this week, we're sharing an episode of Land of the Giants, a podcast from our friends at Recode and Eater. Land of the Giants is a podcast that explores how the biggest tech companies rose to power, and what they're doing with that power. In this 4-part mini-season, they’re covering the world of restaurant delivery apps and exploring how big tech is transforming the business of food, and the true cost of our convenience.  You can listen to the full season of Land ...

Juul and the business of addiction, with Lauren Etter

June 29, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

Juul became a sensation — and a sensationally dramatic story. Lauren Etter, author of The Devil's Playbook: Big Tobacco, JUUL, and the Addiction of a New Generation, joins us to explain how a tech startup founded in a Stanford design studio to disrupt the smoking industry upended years of tobacco regulation in the United States, got a new generation of teenagers addicted to nicotine after years of declining teen smoking rates, and eventually found itself valued at 38 billion. Learn more about...

Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella on the business of Windows

June 25, 2021 11:45 - 37 minutes

Nilay Patel talks with Satya Nadella, the CEO and chairman of Microsoft. On Thursday, Microsoft announced Windows 11, which comes with an all-new design, a bunch of new features, and the ability to run Android apps. Nilay asks Nadella about how he thinks about Windows as a platform, what Microsoft’s responsibilities are, and how he thinks the various antitrust bills in Congress will affect Microsoft’s plans for the future. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit

Patreon CEO Jack Conte on why creators can’t depend on platforms

June 22, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

Nilay Patel talks with Jack Conte, co-founder and CEO of Patreon, the platform that allows people to pay their favorite creators directly with monthly subscriptions. Nilay and Jack talk about how Patreon’s model as “membership” works, what Patreon’s relationship is to Apple and the app store, and where the overall creator economy is going on the internet. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit

John Deere CTO Jahmy Hindman on farming, data, and fixing the tractors of the future

June 15, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

Nilay Patel talks with Jahmy Hindman, chief technology office at John Deere, the world’s biggest manufacturer of farming machinery.  Nilay and Jahmy discuss what it means for our farming equipment to be run by computers, and how to fix the problems that arise because of it — like accessing reliable broadband, how the equipment should be upgraded, and who gets to fix it when it breaks. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit

The next generation of startups is remote, with Y Combinator's Michael Siebel

June 08, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

Nilay Patel talks with managing director of Y Combinator Michael Siebel. YC is one of the most well-known and successful startup incubators in Silicon Valley. Michael is also a co-founder of, known now as Twitch, and he recently joined the board at Reddit after cofounder Alexis Ohanian stepped down and asked the company to replace him with someone who is Black. That means Michael is uniquely suited to talk about a lot of things that I’m really interested in exploring on Decoder: sta...

Why Spotify’s chief legal officer called Apple a “ruthless bully”

June 01, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

Nilay Patel talks with head of global affairs and chief legal officer of Spotify Horacio Gutierrez to help understand why Spotify and so many other app developers are so frustrated with Apple. Horacio recently testified in front of Congress about Apple’s business practices, and just wrote an op-ed in the Wall Street Journal calling Apple a “ruthless bully.” Horacio explains what he sees as the biggest problems with Apple’s behavior, what he would actually do to fix it, and how all of that con...

How to build everything, with Flex CEO Revathi Advaithi

May 25, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

Nilay Patel talks with Revathi Advaithi, CEO of Flex. Flex is the third largest electronics manufacturing company in the world, making everything from hair dryers to the Mac Pro to autonomous driving systems for electric cars. It can also do everything from simply assembling products, to actually designing and engineering them from scratch.  Revathi and Nilay focus on the global chip shortage, the rise of automation, the future of the manufacturing workforce worldwide, and whether Flex can av...

Ford CEO Jim Farley on building the electric F-150 — and reinventing Ford

May 20, 2021 10:00 - 47 minutes

This week we have Jim Farley, CEO of Ford Motor Company, to discuss their second big push into consumer EVs with the F-150 Lightning. We wanted to see how Jim sees our relationship to cars changing as they turn into what are fundamentally rolling computers. His answers surprised us — he hinted at one day being able to upgrade the computing systems of a car the same way you might upgrade or replace the engine, or the shocks. As we go through this conversation, we notice how much Jim talks like...

Facebook’s Oversight Board has upheld the Trump ban. What’s next?

May 11, 2021 10:00 - 57 minutes

Nilay Patel talks with Kate Klonick, a law professor at St. John’s University Law School and one of the foremost chroniclers of Facebook’s moderation efforts.  Kate has been researching and studying Facebook’s Oversight Board from its inception: she embedded with the board as it was forming to write a definitive piece for The New Yorker called “Inside the Making of Facebook’s Supreme Court.” Nilay and Kate discuss the Oversight Board’s recent decision to uphold Facebook’s ban on Donald Trump ...

How Shopify’s network of small businesses can take on Amazon

May 04, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

Nilay Patel talks with Harley Finkelstein, President of Shopify. Shopify makes software that allows businesses of all sizes to set up online stores, and from there it can handle everything from shipping orders to financing loans for expansion. The company went public in 2015, and as online commerce has exploded during the pandemic, it’s been on a tear ever since. Harley talks about competing with the tech giants, Shopify's content moderation policies, and the future of online retail. Learn mo...

Senator Amy Klobuchar takes on Apple with antitrust law

April 27, 2021 10:00 - 49 minutes

Senator Amy Klobuchar sits down with host Nilay Patel to discuss her new book Antitrust: Taking on Monopoly Power from the Gilded Age to the Digital Age and the flurry of antitrust hearings over the past year. Senator Klobuchar serves as chair of the Senate subcommittee on competition policy, antitrust, and consumer rights — and in that role, Senator Klobuchar held a hearing last week focused on the power and control Apple and Google — but especially Apple — wield with their app stores. Where...

How Anjali Sud stopped worrying about YouTube and reinvented Vimeo

April 20, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

Since becoming CEO a few years ago, Anjali Sud has changed the nature of Vimeo’s business from indie entertainment streaming platform to a SaaS company offering tools for content creators. And it's paying off. Nilay Patel and Anjali discuss Vimeo’s rapid growth, going public, and what’s next for the company. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit

Is VR the next frontier in fitness?

April 13, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

Nilay Patel talks with Chris Milk, founder and CEO of Within, which makes the VR fitness app Supernatural. Chris has been making VR experiences for a long time, but Supernatural feels like his biggest hit yet — an app that makes people go out and buy a VR headset just to use. Chris and Nilay discuss how the company Within takes on music licensing, competition with Peloton, and the platform of virtual reality. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit

Is there a future for Bitcoin? An investor and a skeptic make their case

April 06, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

Nilay Patel interviews two experts on different sides of the bitcoin argument: a bitcoin investor and bitcoin skeptic. The investor is Nic Carter. He’s a general partner at Castle Island Ventures, which funds startups that are building on top of the bitcoin infrastructure to make payments more accessible — basically, making sure bitcoin can function like a currency. The skeptic is Steve Hanke. He is a professor of Applied Economics at Johns Hopkins University, senior fellow and director of th...

Facebook's VP of Global Affairs doesn’t think the platform is polarizing

March 31, 2021 10:00 - 49 minutes

In a bonus episode of Decoder, Platformer editor and Verge contributing editor Casey Newton talks with Facebook's VP of Global Affairs Nick Clegg about his lengthy Medium post addressing some of the criticisms that Facebook has endured, as well as unveiling some changes the company is making to give users more control over their experience. Host of Decoder Nilay Patel taks with Casey before the interview to discuss why this shift in Facebook's approach to the user experience is important, and...

Poshmark’s Tracy Sun on stitching e-commerce with social media

March 30, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

Nilay Patel talks with Tracy Sun, the co-founder and SVP of new markets at Poshmark, a fashion resale company that just went public earlier this year while riding the huge wave of e-commerce growth during the pandemic. Tracy has to manage regular e-commerce issues, like shipping logistics and customer service, as well as influencer economy problems, like burnout and the incessant need to grow follower counts — not to mention the universe of problems that comes with selling fashion, like deali...

The robots are coming for your office, with NYT’s Kevin Roose

March 23, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

Nilay Patel sits down with New York Times tech columnist Kevin Roose to discuss the impact of automation on our future — specifically, robotic process automation, or RPA. Kevin's new book, Futureproof: 9 Rules for Humans in the Age of Automation, is out and features a lengthy discussion of RPA, who's using it, who it will affect, and how to think about it as you design your career. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit

Australia vs Facebook — and how regulation is splintering the internet, with Atlassian CEO Scott Farquhar

March 16, 2021 10:00 - 1 hour

Nilay Patel talks with Atlassian CEO Scott Farquhar about Australia's Media Bargaining Code, which requires social platforms and search engines to pay news publishers for linking to their work. They also discuss how to run a global company in an increasingly fractured world and why understanding public policy is now key to running a tech company. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit

How Twitter is building its future, with Kayvon Beykpour

March 09, 2021 11:00 - 1 hour

Nilay talks with Twitter’s Head of Consumer Product, Keyvon Beykpour about what it took to reset the team towards growth, how he decides what to prioritize, and what the timelines for success look like on different projects. They also talk about moderation, of course. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit

Underunderstood: Why is This Sheriff Arresting Fire TV Sellers?

March 04, 2021 11:00 - 48 minutes

An 88-year-old is being charged with a felony after selling ‘jailbroke firesticks’ at a Florida flea market. Why? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit

Meet Austin Russell, the 25-year-old billionaire building the future of self-driving cars

March 02, 2021 12:05 - 1 hour

Austin Russell, Luminar’s founder and CEO on why he thinks LIDAR is the future of self-driving technology, where he thinks the autonomous vehicle industry is headed, and proving Elon Musk wrong. Let us know what you think: Learn more about your ad choices. Visit

Evil Geniuses' CEO Nicole LaPointe Jameson on how to run an esports company

February 23, 2021 11:00 - 1 hour

Nilay Patel talks with CEO of Evil Geniuses about how an esports team makes money, where the industry is headed, and where she sees growth. We want to hear what you think of Decoder! Please fill out this short survey: Learn more about your ad choices. Visit

CNBC’s Jon Fortt on GameStop, Robinhood, and wallstreetbets

February 16, 2021 11:00 - 1 hour

CNBC anchor Jon Fortt unpacks how the GameStop stock story was covered by the media and if technology has the ability to democratize the markets through apps like Robinhood. Fortt also discusses his course ‘The Black Experience in America,’ which looks at race in the US We want to know what you think of the podcast! Please take our audience survey at Learn more about your ad choices. Visit

Black Software author on technology’s role in racial justice

February 09, 2021 11:00 - 1 hour

In this episode of Decoder, Nilay sits down with Charlton McIlwain, a professor of media, culture, and communications at NYU and the author of Black Software, to talk about Black Lives Matter, Twitter, Online Communities, and Policing. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit

Venture Capitalism isn’t just for Venture Capitalists, with Arlan Hamilton

February 01, 2021 18:00 - 55 minutes

Nilay Patel talks with venture capitalist Arlan Hamilton. Arlan founded VC fund Backstage Capital in 2015 and focuses on investing in “underestimated founders,” many of whom are people of color, women and LGBTQ. They discuss the importance of representation in tech and business, how the VC world works, and why Arlan is hopeful about the future at Backstage. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit

The SolarWinds hack: cyber attacks and national security with Reuters reporter Joseph Menn

January 26, 2021 11:00 - 58 minutes

The Verge's Nilay Patel is joined by Joseph Menn, a cybersecurity reporter at Reuters and author of the new book Cult of the Dead Cow: How the Original Hacking Supergroup Might Just Save the World. Nilay and Joseph talk about a very big problem in US cybersecurity today: the SolarWinds hack. In December, it was reported that a group of hackers, likely from the Russian government, had gotten into SolarWinds, a dominant player in network management software, and then used that access to breach ...

Marques Brownlee on how to scale MKBHD while being the face of the YouTube brand

January 22, 2021 11:00 - 1 hour

Nilay Patel talks with Marques Brownlee (MKBHD on YouTube) about building a business as a YouTuber, how content creators make money, and how to scale when you are the brand. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit

Instagram’s Adam Mosseri on the future of Reels, moderation, and the responsibility of social media platforms

January 19, 2021 11:00 - 1 hour

The Verge's Nilay Patel talks with head of Instagram Adam Mosseri about how to run a creative platform like Instagram at scale while keeping users — and democracy — safe, how much responsibility the platforms have for what their algorithms promote, and, of course, Instagram's products like Reels, Stories, and IGTV. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit

Trump, Twitter, and the First Amendment, with platform moderation expert Daphne Keller

January 12, 2021 11:00 - 1 hour

In the aftermath of the pro-Trump attack on the Capitol, many online platforms, including both Twitter and Facebook, banned President Trump. In this week’s episode, Nilay Patel talks with regulation expert and law professor Daphne Keller, about a big problem: how to moderate what happens on the internet. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit

The business of meatless meat with Beyond Meat CEO Ethan Brown

December 22, 2020 11:00 - 48 minutes

Today’s episode is with Beyond Meat founder and CEO Ethan Brown. Nilay and Ethan discuss how the company is doing since its IPO in 2019 and how they are fairing during the pandemic. The food supply chain has seen significant impact during COVID and there has been an increased demand for plant-based proteins during the pandemic, with meat shortages and more people cooking at home. They also talk about how Beyond Meat is structured, how they are different from other competitors in the market, a...

How the @!#$ does advertising work, with Cadillac CMO Melissa Grady

December 15, 2020 10:00 - 1 hour

Advertising is a huge part of the economy and something we all experience everyday through various mediums. In this episode, Nilay Patel talks with Cadillac CMO Melissa Grady about how advertising has been reinvented by technology — from data-driven insights to new social media platforms to the role of influencers in marketing. They also unpack how modern advertising works and where it's headed in the future.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit

Can Substack CEO Chris Best build a new model for journalism?

December 08, 2020 10:00 - 1 hour

Nilay Patel talks to Chris Best, cofounder and CEO of Substack, the subscription newsletter startup that’s taken the media industry by storm over the past few months. The conversation explores how Substack's business model could potentially impact the media industry, but also dives into the basic questions about running a media company -- how Substack makes money, how it’s going to scale while offering additional services to writers, like legal protection, and, of course, content moderation. ...

Alamo Drafthouse CEO Shelli Taylor on going back to the movies

December 01, 2020 10:00 - 46 minutes

On this episode of Decoder, Nilay talks with Shelli Taylor, the CEO of Alamo Drafthouse. Shelli stepped into her new role as CEO during the pandemic. In this conversation, Nilay and Shelli discuss the steps she had to take to get her company back on solid ground — including justifying high fixed costs of expensive lightbulbs — and how the government has failed to manage the pandemic effectively for business owners. They also talk about what it will take to safely reopen theaters and what the ...

Microsoft's Phil Spencer on launching the new Xbox and the future of games

November 24, 2020 10:00 - 1 hour

On this week’s episode of Decoder Nilay Patel talks to Phil Spencer, the guy in charge of Xbox at Microsoft. They discuss not only the next-generation Xbox and PS5 just arriving in stores now, but how gaming itself has become part of mainstream culture, a trend that has definitely accelerated during the pandemic. We’ve also reached an inflection point for game streaming: Google, Amazon, and Microsoft all have services that allow consumers to play games on any device by streaming them over the...


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