Episode 26 Reducing Student Loan Debt with Robert Farrington

Robert Farrington is a Millennial Money Expert and Founder of TheCollegeInvestor.com.

He is on a mission to help millennials get out of student loan debt and start building wealth for their future. He also helps parents make smart choices about college financing options and navigating the complex world of paying for school.

Through his work at TheCollegeInvestor.com, Robert Farrington has emerged as one of the nation's leading student loan debt experts.​

Show Transcription:

Episode 26 Reducing Student Loan Debt with Robert Farrington.mp3

 

[00:00:00] And so that's really what we've been talking about for the last decade, is how you can start building wealth and investing early while conquering your seed loans and getting out of debt at the same time.

 

[00:00:09] Welcome to the Real Estate Marathon podcast, your guide in the Race to Financial Freedom. The Real Estate Investing in Sound Financial Practices. This podcast is for anyone interested in learning more about real estate, investing, personal finances and a new take on traditional retirement. Now here are your host, Larry B0 and Mike Moe.

 

[00:00:34] What's going on, everybody? Welcome to the Real Estate Marathon podcast, your guide on the race to financial freedom through real estate investing in sound financial practices.

 

[00:00:43] My name is Mike Moe, one of the hosts the show joined today with my partner in crime, the credit score king. Mr Fiero, What's up, man?

 

[00:00:51] You know, Mike, I'm never going to get tired. You call me the credit score king. That's just phenomenal. I'm actually going to have that put out my business cards. I think.

 

[00:00:59] Heck, yeah. You should win. I'm going to. But now doing well tonight. Doing well tonight.

 

[00:01:03] Very excited about the interview that we had earlier in the week that we're getting rated a show, everybody.

 

[00:01:09] Yes. And I am pumped about this one as well as we were discussing before we hit that record button. This is a subject that is near and dear to my heart and a lot of people can relate to. And it's student loans and student debt and kind of having to dig your way out of that that that hole that a lot of people find themselves and notice.

 

[00:01:30] And will the student loan the amount of school loans in the country today is turned into epidemic proportions. I mean, you've got got kids coming out of college this year in more debt than I think they've ever seen in previous years. So that's just one of those things that that this guest came on. The podcast is going to try and help you figure out and get a handle on.

 

[00:01:53] Yeah. For sure, man.

 

[00:01:54] And honestly, it's a it's a crime that we you know, the kids nowadays, they're 18, 19 years old, signing for six figures of debt. They don't even know what that means.

 

[00:02:02] So it's you know, we got to do as much as we can to give them as many tools as possible to get themselves out of this. Essentially 17 loans of six figures plus with with no collateral to it other than the ability to make money in the future. Right. So, yeah, I mean, it's it's it's crazy out there. So hopefully this will help people maybe assess their financial situation a little bit as it comes in student loans and maybe get out of it a little bit quicker.

 

[00:02:27] Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I've got, though, the warm up cued up here. And you know what? The warm up we're doing today is student loan consolidation. And Mike, what student loan consolidation is it? It's the process through which you take out a new loan, which is then used to pay off all your other existing student loans instead of having multiple loans and multiple loan payments. You have only one. You can consolidate all federal student loans and most private student loans into one more.

 

[00:02:56] Yeah. Yep. So like Robert said on the show, like when you have six figures and student loan debt, you don't have just one loan.

 

[00:03:02] You typically have eight, nine, 10 or 11 different, you know, different loan providers who have give you this money over the course of that year. Your education. Right. So would that amounts to is a lot of times that's 7, 8, 9, 10 different payments for, you know, a certain amount per month at different interest rates. So that consolidation allows you to scrap all of that and get it into one payment with one interest rate. So one, it's easier to handle it, too. Typically, loans lowers your your monthly payment as well. So definitely something to look into, especially if you get so many when somebody like you.

 

[00:03:35] And if you're doing a four year degree, you generally have multiple loans. So you want to shoot it all under one umbrella.

 

[00:03:41] Well, and so like you said, you want to reduce your student loan payment and you want to consolidate it all into just one payment. That's one of the steps. And Robert talks about many other steps that you can use to get a handle on on your student loan debt.

 

[00:03:55] Yes, sir. All right. Anything else?

 

[00:03:58] No. Let's jump into the Robert Ferrington interview and and we'll see you guys on the other side.

 

[00:04:05] All right. Robert Ferrington, welcome to the Real Estate Marathon podcast, man. How you doing? I'm great. Thanks for having me, guys.

 

[00:04:12] Oh, thank you for coming on and sharing your knowledge with everybody. That's. This is great show. Thank you.

 

[00:04:17] I mean, I definitely got to tell you, I'm super pumped about this one. This is a really important topic near and dear to my heart, so I can't wait to get into it. You might start by telling the audience a little bit about yourselves.

 

[00:04:29] Yeah. So I am the founder of the college investor and we talk all about getting out of student loan debt, starting to invest in building wealth.

 

[00:04:37] And I've been helping people get a student loan debt and navigate the complex world of student loans for over a decade now. And you know, as much as you hear about it in the media and everything else, like, I mean, it's so complex and there's no one size fits all for anybody. And, you know, the more you go down the rabbit hole, the harder it gets to figure out which way's out. It's kind of crazy. So, yeah, that's kind of my story and help people online for a while now.

 

[00:05:02] Sounds nice. What prompted you to to start the college investor? Was that they were you in a lot of student debt? Did you see the way it was going? Yes.

 

[00:05:13] So I started in college because I wanted to talk to people about investing. Right. Like, that's a lot funner, the talking about getting out of debt.

 

[00:05:20] So I want to talk about how to make money and investing in the stock market and even a little bit investing in real estate. But yes, I did have student loan debt. I graduate with over forty two thousand dollars in student loan debt. And my sight just kind of started with like nobody reading it until I wrote about my struggle with my loans and my loan servicer. And that was like one of my first articles that kind of went viral. And I talked about how my loan servicer was applying my payments incorrectly. And I had to go battle with customer service and everything, you know, super annoying. I wrote this whole thing and oh, my gosh, all these people were like, me, too. And I'm struggling with this, too. And, you know, I heard the best piece of advice was like, dude, we love all the stuff you're talking about with investing, but we're not there yet. We have all this loan debt. We're trying to figure this out. Like, how can we do both? And so that's really what we've been talking about for the last decade, is how you can start building wealth and investing early while conquer you see loans getting out of debt at the same time.

 

[00:06:18] Yeah, those student loan companies don't have a tendency to listen to the little guy, do they? It's like David and Goliath situation. So totally.

 

[00:06:25] I mean, it's just it's so complex, convoluted.

 

[00:06:27] You're talking to a call center, right, with just some, you know, $12 an hour person that really doesn't care about you or your financial needs. You know, like if you don't do it yourself, like nobody's gonna care about you except for yourself, right?

 

[00:06:40] Absolutely. Nice. So I got to imagine there's there's probably a couple different ways to look at this. You know, you got the college grad who is in a ton of debt.

 

[00:06:49] You got the person just going into college who we might build, educate a little bit on how to, you know, leave without a ton of debt. But maybe if we can start with, you know, people who have maybe graduated recently and have a ton of student loan debt, they're looking at maybe this six figure plus pile of this problem that that they tackle.

 

[00:07:08] Where do they start? So the number one thing I recommend for anyone is get organized. So I can't tell you the I would tell you actually ninety nine percent of everybody I speak to that is struggling with their student loan debt also can't tell you how much to loan debt they have.

 

[00:07:22] They can't tell you how many loans they have. They can't tell you what your interest rate is. They can't tell you what individual payments are on each loan. Because when you're talking to six figures to loan debt, you don't have one loan. Right. You have probably six to 10 different loans with different interest rates, maybe even different types of loans. And so it really starts with just getting organized, like whatever that style is for you. Like go on to your loan servicers Web site, find your credit report, see what debt you owe. Put it on a list. Put it in some software. Right. There's a lot of free software options out there. Print a notebook like I don't know what your style is for, you know, getting organized, but you've got to get organized. You got a list out your loans. You've got to make sure that your loan servicers have your correct address on file. You're not missing notices in payments. Right. Is none of us live in the same place? We went to freshman year of college.

 

[00:08:11] Right. Like we probably lived somewhere freshman year and took out loans. We lived somewhere sophomore year. Junior senior. Heck, we might have used our parents address for some of that stuff. Right. And so, like, if your loan servicer doesn't even have your info, you could totally be in default and not even know I'd been missing these letters. And then like getting yourself into a world of financial hurts. And so that's where it starts. Like we can even have a conversation about what's the best course of action is if you don't know what you got listed out and then talk about the rest of your budget to like what income is coming in. What are your job prospects like? What's all that look like? Then we can formulate a plan.

 

[00:08:48] I see. That's so true. And I think a lot of people just take the mentality of, well, I owe them money. They'll find me. Right. But it's all they have to do is send to whatever assets they have on file. And if that's wrong. Well, you still go to collections either way and then you've going to deal with a credit score, which Larry loved so much, you know, and if it goes in the tank.

 

[00:09:04] It's a fine line between 800 and 300.

 

[00:09:07] Even that like so it's we're recording this a tax time, right. And I think a lot of people don't realize that. You know, the I know the collateral of a student loan is your income.

 

[00:09:17] Right. So like you get a how do you buy it? You buy a home, right. The collateral of the mortgage is the home. You don't pay your mortgage. Well, they just, you know, foreclose on your house. Right. Well, the collateral of your student loan is your ability to earn money. And if you don't pay your student loan, they take your earnings. And the government has this crazy administrative power where if you get a government payment, they don't even have to go to court or do anything. They could just take all your government payments. So it's tax season. And if you're in default on your loans, they will just take your tax return.

 

[00:09:48] That's it. There's no like ands or buts about it. And so I see this whole world of her people are saying like, oh, I never heard. I never heard what's like one you knew you had two loans to. Is your address updated on file? It's like all they had to do was send a letter to whatever address they had on your student loans. This was probably months ago or even years ago. And now they're just taking your tax refund. They're going to take your garnish, your wages. They're going to take your Social Security. If you kick the can down that far right leg, you've got to realize that that is the problem. And that's the collateral. And then as you make these decisions, you can figure out which way to navigate it.

 

[00:10:21] And you have ignorance is not bliss when it comes to your student loans.

 

[00:10:25] No, no, no. One of the questions that we have is when a student can't pay their qoute, loan payments, what what did they do in that instance? I mean, obviously, they don't want to ignore it. What do they do, this process? Yeah.

 

[00:10:38] And so that's the scary part, right? Like, what if I can't pay my debt? Or even more so when you get that first bill after you graduate.

 

[00:10:45] What happens is, is you default into what is known as the 10 year standard repayment plan. And that payment plan is actually the highest monthly payment that you will ever face with your student loans. If you can pay it, great. But if you can't pay it, don't ignore it. That's actually like the highest monthly payment. There's a lot of other options out there. But if you don't ask, if you don't call, you don't do your research. You know, that's where you get in trouble. So for most people that can't afford their loans. Income driven repayment plans are the key. These are amazing plans that cap your monthly payment at either 10 percent or 15 percent of your monthly discretionary income. And what that means is if you really have zero income, once you say that you'd never got a job like the job market was struggling for what you want to do if you have zero income while you're still loan, payment is also zero. And if you're low income and maybe you have some children, your income, your monthly payment could also be zero. Or it could be very low. We're talking, you know, ten eighty dollars like something that's cap to your income. So if you don't make a lot of money, these repayment plans can help you stay current on your loan debt and they can also keep you out of default. And they all come with loan forgiveness down the road. It's not sexy. Takes 20 years. But, you know, if you really struggle to earn a solid income over 20 years, any remaining balance on your loan is forgiven.

 

[00:12:05] And that's I mean, that was going to be my follow up question is the loan forgiveness programs. How exactly do you qualify for that? Next, you have to make a payment. For how long?

 

[00:12:15] Well, it depends. So that's the other thing is right now, with no changes to the laws, like, let's just say none of these pullet politicians that are out there talking all these changes, if nothing changes, 50 percent of all borrowers today qualify for something, maybe not total loan forgiveness, but something.

 

[00:12:33] And there's so many repayment plans, forgiveness programs out there. I've found over 80 different loan forgiveness programs, depending on where you do what kind of loans you have, where you live. So the most popular one is the one that you hear about in the news all the time. Public service, loan forgiveness. And it's popular because there's a lot of public servants out there, teachers, government officials, you know, state, local, federal members of the military. You know, that's very broad. And so a lot of people qualify for it. The other thing is, is it takes 10 years or 120 payments and you get tax free loan forgiveness at the end. And so that's one the most popular ones. But there's so many other loan forgiveness programs out there that you just you a few minutes of research, you might qualify for something and not even realize it.

 

[00:13:21] Very nice. If there's somebody who, you know, is looking at this massive student loan debt and doesn't want to drag it out for 20 years to maybe qualify for something like that, what are the. Are there strategies that work specifically to maybe accelerate getting that debt paid off or what are some quick wins for them?

 

[00:13:39] Yeah, I mean, it all comes down to your income, right? If you can afford to pay more, it's just a math game, right? Do you want to eliminate your debt, pay less interest and get it done with?

 

[00:13:47] Or can you afford to not to do that? If you can. I mean, you can definitely look at refinancing. You do loans, getting a lower interest rate and paying it off. But refinancing is what everyone here is. Because. Right, it's driven by the banks and banks advertise and they have a lot of money to throw at advertize. Right. And so everyone's share refinance to save interest on my loans. Well, the sweet spot for refinancing and saving on interest on your loans is are you going to pay off your student loan debt in three to five years? If the answer to that question is yes. Well, refinance. Go for it. If the answer to that is no, don't refinance. Look at other programs. But maybe in a year from now, your situation changes. Maybe you got to raise it work. Maybe you got a new job. Nothing that we're talking about also has to be permanent. Right. I think that mostly we'll need to look at their do loans reassessed annually and see if they're on the right path because life changes, your income changes, everything can change. Right.

 

[00:14:41] And you've got to just continue to monitor it and see if you're on the best path for yourself today when you get ready to go to college. Win. Win is the best time to start planning this out.

 

[00:14:52] Is this something you should do before you even decide to go to college? Is this something that you can do during college? I mean, what's your opinion on the best, best time to start this?

 

[00:15:02] Oh, I mean, like when they're 8. Like when your children are in there, like, you know, single digits, you need to have these conversations. And it actually isn't even the college conversation, really. It's the money conversation.

 

[00:15:12] Like, I can't tell you how many parents just don't share any type of money with their kids. Like not giving them money, but like giving them transparency into their finances. And then, you know, this 16 year old thinks that they're going to have their college paid for and then mom and dad's like, no, there's no money. And it turns into really nasty things. So let's start with your kids early. Share with them money. Tell them what your budget looks like. Tell them what the plans are to save for college and then just continue to evolve these conversations all throughout their life until they're in high school. And then you need to sit down, have the real conversation about how you can pay for college. What do you want to do? Where you want to go? Well, this is how much it costs. This is how much mom and dad have. This is how much we put aside for you. You know, this is what we could do to support you while you're in school. But like, you know, here's what it looks like. And we have to have these conversations with children early because college is more than money. Right? It's hopes, dreams, aspirations, but it also involves money and taxes and the government and all kinds of other nasty stuff that we don't talk about as much. So if you don't combine these two early, you just set up really bad conversations when it comes to paying for college. And that's where also people don't realize what college all about. College isn't about necessarily education. It is. But you can get educated anywhere you get as you listen to a podcast. You can get educated going to Harvard. Got you. And they put all their lectures online. So if you want really world class education, you can find that you go to college because you're looking for an hour away on your investment. And that's what we need to talk about. Just like you would in real estate or in the stock market, you want a return on your investment. So if you're going to invest $40000 in college while you're doing so, because you expect to earn more after college and you're expecting to get skills, networking, career, other things besides just the classes because like English one, a one you can get anywhere, you could read some books and you've literally learned what your English class going to teach you in college.

 

[00:17:17] So like you're going for more than just that education. You've got to keep that in mind. It's an investment and it's an expensive investment. And statistically, college graduates do earn more than high school graduates over time. But, you know, there's definitely people that don't need to go to college and can earn very good sums of money, you know, with their skills. Maybe it's a trade, maybe it's joining. The military is college isn't for anyone. And it's really expensive to find yourself if you don't know what to do.

 

[00:17:46] There is so much going back in that last couple minutes.

 

[00:17:51] I think you're underspent percent spot on that. I think that is hopefully it's a generational thing and we're getting away with it. But, you know, as you know, when I was growing up, it's pretty common here in young people my age, just, you know, their parents intolerable money to teach me about money. But then when they got to 17, 18 years old, you had to go to college. Why? Because that's what you do and that's what you have to do. But. Oh, yeah. We can't pay for it. So go get student loans. And, you know, you can't you can't yet get a legal drink, but you can sign for a hundred thousand dollars in student loans without knowing what you're going to get for it. And I think you the way that you look at college from an ROIC standpoint is the way people need to look at college, because you're a hundred percent. Right. You can get educated anywhere. And nowadays there's so much stuff out there that if you don't need a college degree for what you're your goals are, it's might not be worth the money, you know?

 

[00:18:40] Right. I mean, there's still just like that political aspect to it. Like, let's say you want to be a teacher, right? Like, you have to get that credential or they don't let you teach, you know?

 

[00:18:49] You know, there's real smart pass to get there. You go to community college, knock out your undergrad, transfer to a state school, live at home, and you could probably be dollar college for like 10 grand and have that credential and go teach like you don't need to borrow one hundred thousand dollars. A teacher. And it's just hard, though, because people think down on community college. But you know what? It's free and half the states. You know, college like no one cares where you. Yeah. You know, whatever calculus or whatever the classes you take, like that's all the same. If you're just going for your teaching credential, get your teaching credential. Same thing applies to anything. But that's where I think I'd like the tech world. They have all these vocational programing schools now that are popping up because you know what? Like Microsoft doesn't care. They just might know be in code. And if you can learn how to code wherever, do it and go get working. And you know, it just we have a whole world of possibilities now and it's really expensive to overlook why you're going to school.

 

[00:19:47] Yeah. And it'll be interesting to see what people and companies do in the next 10 years as lowering some of their college degree requirements from these jobs that don't necessarily need it, you know, making it through it.

 

[00:19:59] My wife worked at a car rentals place right out of college and it required a four year degree to rent cars.

 

[00:20:05] That's ridiculous. There's a lot of that. It's so silly that, like, you need a college degree to become like a manager and assistant manager.

 

[00:20:13] And it's like really like, you know, there's people that have really great skill sets that don't need to do that. But, you know, you've put this arbitrary. I call up politics and workplace politics. And it's the same like I see people going back to school for like a master's degree or a graduate degree, because graduate programs in general are the worst are. Why? That's where, you know, when you see the million dollars in student loan debt, there's over 100 people in this country with a million dollars in loan debt and they're all graduate degree programs. Right. Because the problem is, his graduate degree programs don't have a cap. So undergraduate borrowing, there's a federal cap on how much you can borrow, not for graduate degrees. So like they can borrow one hundred fifty two thousand dollars a year and then, you know, interest and all that stuff builds and you're a million bucks. And that's where there's no growth, especially with like MBA programs, things like that. It might be the workplace politics game that you need to play. But in that case, make your employer pay for it. Like I'm not necessarily dismissing the value of the degree, but at the cost in the R-N.Y might not be there. But if you're not, the payer will go for it. Right. But if your company is going to demand that that you have an MBA to get promoted into some kind of management position, well, they should put up the money and pay for it.

 

[00:21:24] Yeah. Nice tazers. Sorry.

 

[00:21:26] Let's just just say one of the things that I like that you said you were mentioning the tech program, which I kind of wanted to dove into just a little bit because I am fans of Mike Rowe who does Mike Rowe works and he's a lover of the tech world. And, you know, I actually had told my son, who just graduated from college with a two year degree in and building building trades and went right into making a job into a job, making more money than I make. So and I've got a four year college degree in business administration and my own real estate portfolio. So, you know, I definitely didn't want to discount that, you know, kind of touch on that a little bit more than the tech world was a great, great return of investment. Like you said.

 

[00:22:05] So, I mean, even the trades are a great return on investment. And, you know, it's very cyclical. And I think it's also important to take a long term view on this. Right.

 

[00:22:14] So when the economy does really well and this is in history, if you look back over the last hundred fifty years, the better the job market is, the less the value of colleges. But then it reverses, the worse the job market is, the higher the value colleges. Right. And so, like, you know, micro is amazing. I think going to the trades is great. You know, I know these construction guys that, you know, are making tons of money these days, but they know everything flips and then they don't. Right. It's very cyclical. But the same thing can happen. The tech world, you know, things can flip. Things can change. So you just got to be mindful of that. But if you build some skill sets and you set yourself apart and you network, you can usually weather those storms regardless of what you get into.

 

[00:22:54] So since we're on the subject of our why, what are some things that people need to consider when they're maybe they're trying to shift their mindset of looking at college just because you've got to go to get a piece of paper or looking at it from an hour away. How do they start that?

 

[00:23:05] Well, the mindset is so psychological because it's your own aspirations and dreams of what you want to do. It is so much family pressure, so much friend pressure.

 

[00:23:17] And you're talking to someone that's 17, 18 years old and you're like, you need to overcome what everyone's telling you to do this.

 

[00:23:24] And that's the hard part is that's where if you start these conversations earlier becomes easier. There's no right or wrong here. But like, you know, we got to judge kids less. We got to let them explore and try things. But we've got to teach them fiscal responsibility as well and help them understand that, like you borrow eighty thousand. That is, you know, fifteen hundred dollars a month every month afterwards. So if you're not making X, you got to live somewhere and rent somewhere and you to feed yourself and have a car and all these other things. Right. Like so we've got to help them understand that. And really do that the better. But it's so much just interpersonal family dynamics that there's just no right or wrong way. We got to just continue to talk to parents, really, and kids and say it's OK, like there's alternatives. I think 30 percent of people to 40 percent should go to college. I think 30 percent of people should go into a trade type scale or the military. And I think a 30 percent of people should become kind of entreprenuers or something else along those lines and just not go that route. I mean, I think everyone's so different and we can't just box everybody in and what's right or wrong or, you know, dad did this. So you should do this. Yadayada, right?

 

[00:24:34] Yeah.

 

[00:24:34] We've all heard the story about Bill Gates dropping out of Harvard, and that might have Bill Gates, you know, like so many of these people have. And it's you know, that's very rare exception. But like, there's also plenty of people that didn't go to college and started a local, you know, trade job or, you know, run a small business that provides for them and their families and does really well. Like, you don't need to have a billion dollar company to support yourself. You can have a nice job. And the cool thing is in this online world is that you can do so much of it online in the comfort of your own home. Being a freelancer, something like that as well.

 

[00:25:15] Now, taking a quote directly off of your Web site says The number one dilemma holding black millennials from investing and building real wealth. Wealth is student debt. To loan debt. Do you feel that that's that's changing now that people are being made more aware of it? Do you think it's getting worse in the economy the way it is now? Do you think we're making progress towards not having crushing student debt?

 

[00:25:42] Not at all. And that's the sad part, is, you know, it's leveled off a little bit over the last couple of years. But I mean, we're still seeing, you know, 30 plus thousand dollars, an average student loan debt when they graduate.

 

[00:25:53] And, you know, wait. The problem is, too, is it's compounded with stagnant wage growth. Right. So like you do, loan debt is increased, but wage growth has stayed stagnant. And so it's just eating up more and more of people's monthly budgets because the end of the day, that's what really matters. It's not about the no amount of loan debt you have if your income increased proportionally to the debt. Who cares? You could still have a portion to buy a house and you could still have a portion that you could have be comfortable having children with and things like that. But that's the dilemma here, is it just eats away at monthly income, which eats away at GDP, which eats away at potential dollars being deployed to any other aspect of life. And it takes years to build the top line so that you could service that debt comfortably so that you feel comfortable buying a house or having children. It targets kids are expensive and people literally the studies show that people are waiting longer to buy a house. They're waiting longer to have kids because they need that top line earnings to grow to a point where they feel comfortable servicing their debt. And that's the problem, is it? It's a delaying factor. It's a it's a drag like student loan debt, not a bubble like the housing market. You know, these bubbles, pop. Right. So people can't afford their houses. The bank forecloses, bank sells that house at a discount, gets it off their books. The whole thing kind of resolves itself in a year per property. And so like when you have a lot of up, takes a couple of years, but it pops, it resolves itself. Problem is, it's like we talked about earlier, student loan debt. You don't pay your loans. It's just a garnishment takes fifteen percent of your paycheck. It just drags and drags and drags. It eats away at income until we hit that twenty twenty five year point. So there's no popping of this new loan bubble. There's just this constant dragging down of people's expendable income. And that's the real problem with this. And that's why it's not getting better, because people clearly can't afford it. We're at the highest default rates we've seen in a decade. And it's not popping because it just drags on income just eats away more of the income. And when people start getting ahead a little bit. Well, that garnishment wraps up at 15 percent and it takes a little more. And that's the hard part.

 

[00:28:05] I feel like, you know, encouraging people to make more if you're you know, regardless of what you're making, you're taking 15 percent off the top of it for these garnishments.

 

[00:28:12] Well, you can get out of it. You can get a default. But, you know, it's this benefit cliff thing, too.

 

[00:28:17] Like, I don't know if you're familiar with the concept of benefit class where, you know, you earn a little bit more, but you lose so much for this gap period. And we see a lot of the lower income jobs where, you know, someone might make $15 an hour and they get a raise to eighteen dollars an hour, but their net is less because they lost benefits. They've lost maybe free childcare. It's the same thing with loan debt because the best ways to get a garnish are you sue loan garnishments is to rehabilitate your school loans. But that requires nine monthly payments first. So you have this nine month period of time where people are still subject to their garnishment, but they have to make a payment too. And so it's like you've got to really have a significant jump in income before they're able to like get out of the. Vicious cycle. It's like all we're doing is punishing these people that are down. And it's not easy. And so, yeah, making a little bit more isn't necessarily helpful. You have to have a sizeable job. And that's the hard part.

 

[00:29:15] And I did a lot of research so I could sound knowledgeable when you came on the podcast. So I was doing some research last few days and nights. I'm not sure a lot of people understand that when things go south, if they get out of college and things in your personal life go south, you you've always got the option to declare bankruptcy. That sort of thing. We've had you know, we've had podcast episodes on that. Student loan debt is one of those things that the government says is not included in a bankruptcy. So the government's always going to get their money. And I'm sure a lot of people understand that. Is that something is that an accurate statement on my part that does not get wiped away by bankruptcy?

 

[00:29:52] Well, it's rare. Let's not say that you can't wipe it away in bankruptcy. It's it's very rare to get it wiped away because once again, what's the collateral? The collateral is earnings.

 

[00:30:01] So when you go to a bankruptcy judge and they have all your debts there and they're looking at your student loans, particularly that you include them and the judge is looking at it and they're like, well, you make no money. Why aren't you on an income driven repayment plan paying zero dollars a month? Why would I eliminate this debt when your monthly payment is zero? There's no reason to. And that's the problem that people don't realize is why you're not getting a discharge in bankruptcy. It's rare because if you actually are disabled, well, there's disability discharge on your loans. They get forgiven. And if you don't have any income, your monthly payment is zero. So the judge looks at you like, why would I forget discharge if it's just you have to have a very rare circumstance of, you know, maybe it's private loans and there's some health care issues and you make just above the poverty line. Things like that, that there are some cases. It just it's so rare to get them forgiven because there's so many options. And as long as you have a potential to earn money in the future, the judge is going to make you pay him or set it as an income driven repayment amount. And you're going to pay if you earn more, it's going to pay more. That's just that's the problem. It's people don't realize that collateral piece.

 

[00:31:09] And the reason I brought that up is I just wanted to, you know, like you and Mike had said earlier, you just can't ignore the situation. They're not going. It's not going to go away. You got you got a head head on and try and figure it out. And that's where your Web sites come in. That's kind of leading me up to, you know, you've got another company called Loan Buddy that I was doing some research on. Could you talk to us a little bit about the student loan counseling and things that you've got going? How long, buddy?

 

[00:31:35] Yes, we created loan buddy to be a DIY solution to help you navigate your C loan debt.

 

[00:31:40] So we've talked in this short period of time of so many options and forgiveness programs and repayment plans. It's confusing. So what loan buddy does for free as you put in all your information? I'll tell you the best repayment plan. And you can take that. You go do it yourself. I'm not here to try to like Damu or anything like that, but we do have some paid upgrades. If you want your paperwork done, if you want some tracking tools, if you want to know if you're qualified for PSL. And the government actually says you're qualified. Like we track all that within loan, buddy. You can upgrade and get those paid services. But the promise of loans is there's a lot of options. There's over one hundred and fifty different options for your loans. Believe it or not. And that's where you get analysis paralysis. There's just so many options. Am I doing the right thing? And I, you know, getting the best payment I can do. I qualify for loan forgiveness. That's what loan buddy seeks to solve. And, you know, there's also a bunch of financial advisors that use it. So we have two parts. The business one part is the direct to consumer, but one part is financial advisors that use it to advise their clients. But these are financial advisors that are extremely knowledgeable, wants to loans as well. They use our software and you can connect with those advisors. If you're looking for someone, help you navigate it. We recommend that for high earners, people with complex situations like doctors and professionals like that that are married, that there's a lot of leverage. You can put your student loans. But it requires so much planning and different things. So you know, something to consider as well.

 

[00:33:06] Would that be a good place to start? If you think you're thinking about this person who just graduated with a ton of student loan debt and you know, people are you've talked about how people are putting things off till later in life. You know, people aren't getting married or having kids. So they're late 20s now when he used to be average age twenty. You know, that gets a go, right? Somebody who graduated but doesn't want to put that off five years.

 

[00:33:25] Do you recommend is there. You recommend them to maybe put some things on hold and take this to loan debt or to manage the payments on to income driven so they can start maybe doing other things like buying a house, having a family and things like that, or how you kind of help them decide which way is best for them?

 

[00:33:40] Yeah, I'm a huge believer in financial balance. Make sure you're servicing the loans for as you know what you need to don't don't go into default, get your monthly payment that you can afford, but start investing.

 

[00:33:51] Because the other thing is you can the biggest thing when it comes to investing is time. It doesn't matter how much you throw at it, it's time. So you're never going to get twenty two back, you know, like. You can only put one hundred dollars a month in. And even if that's just like a or one K match from your employer, do it, because if you wait until you're 30, like you've lost eight years of time, that you're just never gonna get back at all. That means for your future is you're gonna have to throw so much more money at it to make up for lost time. And so I'm a big believer in taking advantage of free money, especially if you can't afford it. So we set for a one K match, maybe HSA match. A lot of employers are doing that now. If you guys are familiar with the health savings accounts and some of those aren't even matches, like a lot of those are like we'll give you a thousand dollars, you'll get your annual physical. You're even better. You have to throw your own money and you can just get free money from your employer. Right. You can invest that and you just do that every year until you start getting a little more cushion in your budget and then you can reassess. But don't dismiss the free money early on and finding that balance of saving and investing and paying off your debt because it's a matter of time to you.

 

[00:35:01] That's awesome. You have time in the market is better than time in the market. And that's why I get kind of not going to say concern.

 

[00:35:07] But, you know, you hear the Dave RAMSI's of the world and they say don't, don't invest a dollar until you have every cent paid off. And, you know, I think there's a lot of concern with that advice, especially. You said you never gonna get twenty two back in those eight years, 20 to 30. Man, from the time pounding standpoint that can do it. Just wonders when you're ready to use it 20, 30 years later down the road.

 

[00:35:29] One hundred percent. I'm with you. Like, that's one piece of advice. I do disagree with Dave on because, you know, like, let's just say your employer matches you 5 percent like one. You're right.

 

[00:35:38] I notice the 5 percent out of your budget, but 2, you're giving up a 5 percent bonus on your money. It's like why are you leaving free money on the table that like literally could be going towards your future? And that's crazy because, you know, like it's a pretax deduction. You're barely gonna notice. Like, put the money away. You might not have anything outside of, like, that kind of thing early on to invest and save, like take advantage of what you can and you won't regret it. I've never heard anyone say, man, I regretted putting all that money in my foro okay. When I was younger, like no one says that.

 

[00:36:14] Nice. Now, you've talked about addressing the debt side of it. You have some some information on your Web site about the income side of it. How would a person go about taking care of both sides, you know, getting an extra $800 a month or creating multiple streams of income? What are your recommendations for these new students coming out of college for building up their income?

 

[00:36:39] Well, that's what I'm most bullish on, and that's my story, right? So I had forty two thousand dollars in debt. I paid it off in about three and a half years, but I did it by side hustling.

 

[00:36:47] So I got my job and I was working. But then I was also selling stuff and flipping it on eBay to the tune of about two thousand bucks a month. I started a blog like you can make so much money today on the side and it's like, what are you doing? Nobody's really working 80 to 100 hours a week. That's very rare, especially when you're a new entry level employee. You're maybe working 40 to 50 hours a week. And when you're young, like in your 20s, you probably don't have kids yet, probably don't have a significant other yet like you have this time in your day. So when you get off work, what are you doing with your hours? Are you just sitting and watching Netflix? Are you, you know, playing video games and spending money versus earning it? So I'm just a big fan of going out and earning it, because for most people, one hundred dollars a month can be game changing and you can earn one hundred dollars a month like driving for rideshare for like eight to 10 hours. And so, you know, you do that for an hour a day for two weeks. Boom, you have it. It's not sexy. Your friends are gonna judge you and think you're really weird and your family might be worried about your safety. But you know what? They're also going to judge you in five years when you're debt free, you're achieving your financial goals. And then like like, how did he get there? I don't understand. Like, you know, but because they're all going to forget that you were driving for Uber for two years. Right? Like, it's just funny how people do that. But it's it's so much mental like psychology that you think that people are going to think of you weirdly. But like, you know, they also will judge you when you're successful. So just go earn more money when you have the time and ability to care.

 

[00:38:21] Some are millennials not investing because of student loan debt, loan debt. Are you seeing them not get in the market and wait until, you know, late 20th to even think about investing? And if so, why do you think that it is? I mean, education.

 

[00:38:37] Yeah, they were so like they are investing much more these days. But yeah, there was a significant delay because, you know, millennials now like they're in their late 20s and early 30s like they are.

 

[00:38:48] And I you know, I saw millennials, you know, over 100 green net networth when that wasn't thought of five years ago on average.

 

[00:38:56] Right. So they definitely delayed investing. But there's a couple of things. They don't also trust financial planners. So they don't invest in.

 

[00:39:03] Traditional ways that I think a lot of people thought of and the rise of all these apps have actually made it easier for millennials to invest. But, you know, they're not investing smart. I don't think, you know, when you see the Robin Hoods in the stash and the acorns, like it's great that they're putting some money in, but they're also trading and doing things they shouldn't. And maybe that's OK, because they're going to learn some lessons early on in life and maybe change their ways. But they need to invest. They need to invest more. And they're starting to. They really are. But we also have enjoyed a 10 year bull market that may be changing. And, you know, so when they invested less, they got outsized returns that they might not see going forward. And so it's hard like you. They just got to do more of it and continue it. And then it's going to be a really interesting year, I think, and how they handle changes, because, you know, statistically it was inevitable that we were going to see a change in the course of the market. And, you know, it's probably a lot of millennials first experiences in a potential downturn. Right. They grew up in 2007/2008. They don't really have any money to see it. Maybe they saw their parents and stuff and now they're experiencing it themselves for the first time.

 

[00:40:20] Thanks a lot. Corona virus, everything.

 

[00:40:23] I mean, it's just a couple statistic. You can blame it on one thing or the other thing. But like when we're at it historically, the second longest bull market in history.

 

[00:40:32] Yeah, like just stats.

 

[00:40:34] I don't know what's to blame. It's just it's just going anyways. It's going to. Yeah. You know, like literally you can it's like roulette. Right. You can keep spinning and hitting it, hitting it, hitting it. You're going to miss at some point which is EXELL against you.

 

[00:40:46] You know, now you've got the long buddy that you DNP basically with the upgraded version of it. Does that offer a one on one coaching program where you actually help them. So the paperwork out form to do that sort of thing. Programs for coaching?

 

[00:41:01] No. So the system actually takes care of all that for. So it's a DIY handles that I've actually gone away from one on one coaching. But we also connect you with the financial planners because that's the thing with student loan debt is the enemy as loan debt is the scam.

 

[00:41:15] Companies are so many scam companies that prey on them and robo calls and things. And, you know, we don't want to be I don't want to be a coach for you and know your financial life. That's why we have financial planners that are literally CFD and CFA and they are licensed professionals. That is fiduciary responsibility to you or we have the DIY approach where you can get all your information, put it in and do it yourself. Or you could just use our tool, validate what you're doing and go do it yourself 100 percent without upgrading. And so I've gone away from the coaching, but we definitely have a range of offerings, kind of whatever suits your needs.

 

[00:41:53] Simon, one more for you actually is people hear a lot about not wanting to get their kids in the same debt that they that they got in in 529 plans are thrown around a lot.

 

[00:42:04] And you think that's an effective way to save for future college generations? Are there better ways to do it?

 

[00:42:09] No, I think the 529 plan is one of the best ways to save for college. But this is what I also say is the airplane analogy. Right. You got to put the mask on yourself before you put on your kids.

 

[00:42:20] And for a lot of parents, they see this with their student loans. Now they're struggling and they they're also taking care of their parents. Right. And they're like, I don't want to be a burden to my kids. Well, the best way you could not burden your kids is to handle your own financial house, like literally save for your own retirements. First, make sure your debts paid off so that when your kids are in their 30s and having kids, you're not having to move back in with them and be a burden. Right. And so that's number one. Number two is between nines are great. But how I think that most people should be leveraging is asking people instead of a gift give to my kids 529 plan. And we saw this in our family and it's worked out really well because I don't know if you guys have kids. I have to. And my gosh, they have a birthday or Christmas. It's like Santa gives them a gift. We give my gift. Their sibling gives them a gift. And then it's like grandma shows up with two other grandma shows up with two. It's like the kid has 40 presents. By the time Christmas is over. But then literally on December 26, they're playing with two of them. The rest of them are literally not even touched. And so one of the things we changed is that we've asked all the extended family, like, stop buying crap. No one needs the crap. Like, if you want to, you don't have to, but like, send the money into their 529 plan. And that's worked really well. They usually get, you know, every grandparents giving them 50 bucks into their 529 plan. But here you are six years later, they each have a few thousand bucks. And that's just continuing to grow. And we get the added win of the kids now getting five just six presents for Christmas instead of 40. And they're still just as happy like no one's any less. So win, win, win right there. Hundred percent. And you know, now instead of them throwing away 50 bucks at Target or Wal-Mart. Buying a toy, they're giving it to somebody that's going to actually be very valuable. And so I'm a huge believer of that fusilli ramified joint and gifting. And of course if you do have any extra money, you can throw it in there. But that's after you've saved for yourself. First, as a parent, take care of yourself, your retirement, your needs. Then look at a 529 save for college directly.

 

[00:44:24] Awesome.

 

[00:44:26] Oh, this has been a lot of information for the people and I appreciate you.

 

[00:44:31] And given this and also the fun, we could talk for hours on this man. I think it's such a such an important subject today. And yeah, there's where we can people go to find out more about this and connect with you more if they need to.

 

[00:44:45] Yes. And go to the college investor dot com. And we have all this information there, if you want to look at it.

 

[00:44:50] Lombardi, a trade deal is do loans, you get a loan, but you got us and you can enter your info and get started for free and see if you're doing the right things with your loans. Perfect.

 

[00:45:00] Excellent. Great information. Thank you for helping our listeners get a hand on their student debt.

 

[00:45:06] Yeah. Thanks. Thanks for having me, guys. That was great. Thank you, guys.

 

[00:45:10] All right, Larry. That was Robert Var. in man. How good was that man?

 

[00:45:15] I didn't know a lot of the stuff that he was talking about. It's just, you know, expand your knowledge base a little bit when you start finding out some of the different methods and and some of the the size of the problem in the country today. You know, the epidemic of student loan debt, people coming out of the college with record amounts of student debt, that's just phenomenally bad for everyone. So, yeah. And bad for you.

 

[00:45:41] Bad for everyone. Like you said, the economy. People are doing things that way later than they used to historically because because of this student loan debt.

 

[00:45:48] People aren't buying houses. People aren't starting families and having kids. Those are really generation. Really. Those are big things for what spur the economy. You know, down the road when those kids, you know, start entering the workforce. So, yeah, this is like large, large implications to our future economic outlook. So, yeah, definitely a big problem. And we teed up their intro. It's such a crazy problem and, you know, such a large problem to tackle when people are looking at such a large amount of student loans. So it's really, truly awesome that Robert was able to come through and give some advice and give some resources for people who might tap this.

 

[00:46:23] Yeah. And, you know, I've got my my kids are twenty three and twenty one and they both just graduated from college.

 

[00:46:29] And you know, they they can really afford to take on all their own bills right now. You know, it's tragic. They're still on her cell phone bills, our car insurance, things like that. And the pay her basically my wife and I are trying to help them as best you can, but you got to try and give them a leg up. Robert is one of those ones that I'm actually going to send this this, I guess, on to them and say, listen up.

 

[00:46:52] Yep.

 

[00:46:53] And actually, since we're on the subject, man, on a future episode, we will want to dove a little bit deeper into maybe how to do college a little bit cheaper without leaving. It was with, you know, this massive amount of debt. Well, to find an expert in that space around college hacking and, you know, getting as much financial aid and financial grants and things like that as possible. So we can, you know, maybe instead of worrying over how to pay off the debt, how to I get in debt in the first place through college.

 

[00:47:19] But again, as I mentioned on the podcast. Well, Mike Rowe works. Mike Rowe is a big proponent of the tech schools. And that's where we sent my son.

 

[00:47:27] And I'm a huge proponent of the tech schools. You know, you have to go to college for something that's just, you know, educational. You can go with educational tech and then get a job right out of college, making probably more than I did. More than I do, like my son did. And jealous of him.

 

[00:47:46] You mean I shouldn't spend 60 grand or 80 grand on a philosophy degree? I'm not saying you shouldn't.

 

[00:47:53] I'm just saying if that's what you choose to do, you may you may have a difficult time finding a job after that. You never know. But don't discount the tech schools. You know, you shouldn't feel bad about going to a tech school at all.

 

[00:48:07] It's. Yeah. No, I love Robert's view around looking at college from the a wide lens like, yes, I'm going to get this degree. But what is my return on this investment going to be? And I think that is nobody. I never thought about college and in that sense before. And I think that that's kind of that mental shift that needs to happen when we're looking at college. Yes, it can be a useful tool, but what am I going to get out of it in return? Is it going to have the R.O. either return on investment to make it worth the six figures? It might cost you to get that college degree.

 

[00:48:39] Yeah, absolutely. So start thinking about all your options and and make sure that make sure you pick wisely for the return on your investment. So what's the wants to call the action we've got tonight?

 

[00:48:51] Like I called action from Robert was just get organized. If you're working through a starting trend to tackle this, this kind of a massive problem in.

 

[00:49:03] I'm kind of this David and Goliath type situation where you're dealing with such a massive debt. You know, just get organized. We. We had a show back, I don't know, four or five now I think was assessing your financial situation where we talked about how you can organize your debts in a way that makes sense and you can tap them efficiently. Kind of the same thing here. Get all of your student loans. Figure out who you owe money to, to what amount in the interest rates. And then I'll just give you a starting point for the for the game plan. Right. You needed epic Inclan for this debt. And if you don't know where you're at, you're not going to be able to make that game plan. So once you have that, there is a couple resources that Mr. Ferrington mentioned that you can go out to, which was, Larry, if I'm remembering correctly, it was loan buddy dot com.

 

[00:49:45] Lombardi wasn't one of them. It wasn't at that us, wasn't it?

 

[00:49:50] I think loan buddy dot us loan body dot org and assessing your financial situation while you're looking that up on Google I believe was episode 3 or 4. So that was more like thirty seven, thirty eight episodes ago because you can believe we're almost up to the fiftieth episode. We need to have something special for our 50th episode.

 

[00:50:11] You know we said a long buddy that. Yes you are correct sir.

 

[00:50:19] So, so long buddy. That U.S. is the no go in there and it's a free service that he offers and it helps you get to the point where you can get a handle on your your student loan debt.

 

[00:50:33] Yeah. All right. Any anything else?

 

[00:50:36] No, that's everything I've got. Read listen to it. If you need to go back to listen to Episode 3 or 4, assessing your financial situation and, you know, just get a handle on it.

 

[00:50:46] Awesome. Cool. Thank you guys for tuning into another episode of the Real Estate Marathon podcast. See you next time.

 

[00:50:51] Thank you everyone for listening to the real estate marathon. I guess if you found value in any of the content from this show, consider supporting us in the following ways. Subscribe to the Real Estate Marathon podcast. Leave a rating and review. Continue the conversation with like minded individuals on social media by heading over to the Real Estate Marathon Gas Facebook Group or follow us on Instagram and Twitter. Add real estate marathon. Buy gas.

 

Farrington launched TheCollegeInvestor.com from his home in 2009​, while finishing his MBA at the UC San Diego Rady School of Management. Being passionate about investing and personal finance, he wanted to connect with others who shared his passion. Not finding what he was looking for on campus, he created TheCollegeInvestor.com as a resource for young adults about money, covering topics from paying for college and escaping student loan debt, to investing their first dollars after graduation.

Since then, Robert Farrington has shared his successful student loan and wealth building expertise with thousands of ​young adults, both online, in person, and as a contributor to major publications such as Forbes and Huffington Post.

The San Diego native's drive to help others and "geekiness" have fueled his work as a blogger, journalist, entrepreneur, and family man. Farrington earned a Bachelor's of Arts in Political Science from UC San Diego, and an MBA from the Rady School of Management at UC San Diego.

Passionate about his family, FinTech, and watching the latest Marvel movie, Farrington resides in San Diego with his wife and son.