Conversations about individuals and systems tend to veer into the realm of either/or. Yet in this episode, Francois Sauer and I explore how complex, dynamic systems can work to serve individuals and create an environment for human flourishing.

Initially trained as a physician and having worked at the systems level with healthcare technologies, Francois is a polymath, philosophical thinker, and truly beautiful mind. We wander from topics like creativity and leadership, to how constraints are a real and often fruitful element of organic systems, to how data ecosystems are informing society at an unprecedented level.