Some We Love, Some We Hate, Some We Eat-Animals and Us with Dr. Hal Herzog

For this episode, we are very pleased to have Dr. Hal Herzog back to our show to talk to us about his research area in human-animal interactions(anthrozoology).  Hal has published a second edition of his fascinating book “Some We Love, Some We Hate, Some We Eat- Why It’s So Hard to Think Straight About Animals.”  His research has been published in journals such as Science, The American Psychologist, The Journal of the Royal Society, The American Scholar, New Scientist, Anthrozoös, BioScience, The Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, and Animal Behavior. His work has been covered by Newsweek, Slate, Salon, National Public Radio, Scientific American, USA Today, The Washington Post, The Boston Globe, The Chicago Tribune and many other newspapers.  In 2013, he was given the Distinguished Scholar Award by the International Society for Anthrozoology.

In this episode, we focused on “The Pet Effect” -the idea that pets improve the well-being of humans.  Hal goes over the data in this regard, and discusses how the “pet effect” may be at least overstated, if not  non-existent, and the reasons why this perception of “animals as miracle workers” remains.  Including how much he loves his cat Tilly, and how he thinks Tilly helps his well-being despite her bird-icidal ways and countless examples of people whose lives are decidedly worse or made more difficult by pets.

We delve deeper in the topic by examining the effectiveness of  animals in animal assisted therapy (AAT), for example the use of dogs for the treatment of PTSD with veterans, and question whether the investment required to train the dogs (up to $35,000 per dog) is worth the small effect and the very mixed (at best) data on it.  

We conclude by talking about the ethics and morality of keeping animals as pets, and draw some interesting parallels between meat-eating and pet-ownership. Hal also talks about whether it is better to not spay and neuter pets (the answer may surprise you!) and how his daughter Katie Herzog, a journalist, arrived at the decision for her dog “Moose” by digging into the data.  We finished by talking about the issue of personhood for animals including upcoming court cases in the US, like the one of “Happy” the elephant at the Bronx zoo, arguing that some animals may be considered persons, and thus, may not be kept in captivity.  A very fun, interesting episode, and thought provoking episode. We hope you enjoy it!

(This episode was NOT brought to you by Purina because boy, they may not like what we have to say).

Research and Articles in Episode:

Link to Hal’s Website and Book

National Academy of Sciences review of VA study on potential therapeutic effect of emotional support dogs on Veterans with PTSD

Happy is an Elephant. Is He Also a Person? Jill Lepore, The Atlantic Magazine.

Moose Nuggets: A journey through one dog’s testicles. By Katie Herzog. Substack

Dogs are born with ears and tails. They should get to keep them. By Karin Brulliard. Washington Post.