The Game of Product, Choosing How You Play It, and Resolving the Creative Tension Between PM and Design w/ Derlen Chiu, VP of Product at April EP 106

Who drives the product team? It shouldn't always be the Product Manager.

On #wayofproduct this week, Derlen Chiu shares his perspective on resolving the creative tension between cross-functional team members.

It's no secret that PM and PD have an industry-wide tension. We break that down in this episode.

Highlights include:

⭐ Why focusing too much on the job title blocks good work, especially in a startup, and why Derlen doesn't enforce "staying in your lane" with his team.

⭐ How to decide when PM, PD, and Engineering should take the driver's seat in a project.

⭐ How Dungeons and Dragons is a great metaphor for a well-balanced team. Trust me; it will make sense when you listen to it.

⭐ Derlens Take on Developing a Product Strategy by Thinking in Games.

Plus, much more!

Listen to Derlen's Interview on...

🎧 Apple Podcasts - https://lnkd.in/ghs99F-G

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🎧 Google Podcasts - https://lnkd.in/gaXS6i_4

🎧 Audible - https://lnkd.in/gy5EWw-r

📺  Watch clips on YouTube - https://lnkd.in/g-UVCNrN

📲 Watch Episode Clips on TikTok - https://lnkd.in/gaEgR-ws

📲 Watch Episode Clips on X - https://lnkd.in/gSTC5SRU

📸 Follow me on Instagram - https://lnkd.in/gEzmaFS4

Who is Derlen Chiu?

Derlen is a VP of Product at April, a tax software made for accounting agencies but designed to provide an amazing end-customer experience.

Before April, Derlen was part of the financial services industry, where he eventually began working in products at places like Plaid!

Interesting Fact: He also maintains a 14-year-old blog on the soccer business at TheSoccerCEO.com!

Don't forget to subscribe to the LinkedIn page The Way of Product | A Podcast on Product Team Collaboration for clips, new releases, and updates!

Connect with Derlen: https://www.linkedin.com/in/derlen/

Follow April: https://www.linkedin.com/company/apriltax/

02:04 Guest's Journey from Finance to Tech

04:30 Understanding the Role of Product Management

07:54 The Importance of Defining the Game in Product Management

10:21 The Role of Strategy in Product Management

18:20 Resolving Creative Tension in Product Teams

20:03 Incorporating Subject Matter Experts in Product Design

22:28 Practical Example: Automating Payments in Agriculture

23:25 The Role of Product Managers

23:57 Driving the Tax Filing Product

24:55 Balancing Roles in Product Development

25:18 Switching Drivers in Product Management

26:04 The Game Metaphor in Product Management

26:34 Understanding the Role in the Game

26:38 Tracking Product Development

27:57 The Role of Design in Product Success

28:47 The Marty Cagan Model 

29:31 Understanding When to Drive as a Designer

31:13 The Game of Product Management

31:58 The Challenge of Entering the Tax Market

32:44 The Strategic Challenge in Product Design

33:46 The Role of User Experience in Product Success

38:00 The Importance of Building Relationships in Agriculture

42:04 Closing Thoughts on Product and Design Partnership

42:49 Final Words and Sign Off