Pitchfork Economics with Nick Hanauer
317 episodes - English - Latest episode: 3 days ago - ★★★★★ - 1.4K ratingsWe are living through a paradigm shift from trickle-down neoliberalism to middle-out economics — a new understanding of who gets what and why. Join zillionaire class-traitor Nick Hanauer and some of the world’s leading economic and political thinkers as they explore the latest thinking on how the economy actually works.
Homepage Apple Podcasts Google Podcasts Overcast Castro Pocket Casts RSS feed
Episodes
LIVE from DC: Redefining the Center (with Heather Boushey)
April 16, 2024 15:48 - 31 minutesThis special episode of Pitchfork Economics features a live conversation from the "Redefining the Center: How to Make Middle-Out Economics the New Mainstream" conference hosted by Democracy Journal in Washington, D.C. Heather Boushey, a member of the White House Council of Economic Advisors, joins Nick for a wide-ranging discussion moderated by Michael Tomasky, editor of Democracy Journal. Hanauer & Boushey explore the policy initiatives being pursued by the Biden administration that prioriti...
The True Crime of Wage Theft (with Terri Gerstein)
April 09, 2024 07:00 - 36 minutesIn the shadows of corporate greed and exploitation lies a sinister crime that is silently perpetrated, leaving countless victims in its wake—a crime that affects millions of hardworking Americans every year and sucks billions out of our economy —Wage Theft. No industry is immune to this insidious crime, from restaurant workers to construction laborers. On this episode of Pitchfork Economics, we are joined by Terri Gerstein, Director of the Labor Initiative at NYU Robert F. Wagner Graduate Sch...
Productivity is a Policy Choice (with Preston Mui)
April 02, 2024 07:00 - 35 minutesPreston Mui, Senior Economist at Employ America, recently authored a report titled "The Dream of the 90s is Alive in 2024: How Policy Can Revive Productivity Growth." The report offers a blueprint for policymakers seeking to emulate the successes of an unparalleled period of productivity in the United States. Mui joins us to examine and reflect on the policy decisions which drove the strong productivity growth of the 1990s, and he also identifies dynamic new strategies for revitalizing Americ...
Why Wages Are Growing From the Bottom Up and Middle Out (with Arin Dube)
March 26, 2024 07:00 - 45 minutesToday, Arin Dube, Professor of Economics at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, joins us to discuss his latest research, which suggests that the American labor market is undergoing a remarkable transformation. The widespread wage inequality that rapidly expanded between 1980 and 2019 is finally reversing, and American paychecks are growing again—especially at the bottom end of the income scale. In this enlightening conversation, Dube explains how and why the labor market has changed, how...
The True Cost of Trump’s Tax Plan (with Samantha Jacoby)
March 19, 2024 07:00 - 34 minutesIn his State of the Union Address, President Biden made it clear that taxes and tax policy were his next big target for a middle-out makeover. However, we can't talk about the future of taxes without discussing the potential expiration of Trump’s’ 2017 tax law. Samantha Jacoby, a senior tax analyst at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, joins us today to help us understand the repercussions of Trump's tax policies and the opportunities ahead. Trump’s tax law was marketed as a boon for...
Middle Out to Mainstream
March 12, 2024 07:00 - 55 minutesEleven years ago, Democracy Journal released a special issue on "The Middle Out Moment" that explored the implications of what was then the brand-new theory of middle-out economics. The moment may not have fully arrived back in 2013, but no doubt it's here now. So this week, Democracy Journal is publishing a follow-up edition called "The Middle Out Moment Part Two," marking the fact that what was once a new idea has now gone mainstream. In this episode, we'll hear from several of the economis...
Why Americans are so displeased with the economy (with Aaron Sojourner)
March 05, 2024 18:48 - 37 minutesThe latest economic indicators show a historically strong economy. Over the past couple of years, the unemployment rate has consistently stayed below 4%, real wages have been growing faster than they have in decades, and economic growth has been strong. And yet, public opinion surveys consistently show dissatisfaction with economic conditions. Aaron Sojourner, a labor economist from the Upjohn Institute, joins us to discuss his research findings into why Americans are so displeased with the e...
A Tale of Two Tax Systems (with David Cay Johnston)
February 27, 2024 08:00 - 41 minutesWhile the average American worker is subject to a progressive income tax system where tax rates increase as income rises, the wealthy often exploit a range of loopholes and deductions that significantly reduce their tax burden—sometimes to the point where the biggest corporations and one-percenters pay nothing at all. David Cay Johnston, a tax policy expert and former investigative journalist for the New York Times, joins us today to help unravel the complexity of the American tax system, whi...
Why Flying Is Miserable And How to Fix It (with Ganesh Sitaraman)
February 20, 2024 08:00 - 55 minutesGanesh Sitaraman joins us today to discuss his new book, Why Flying Is Miserable And How to Fix It. Air travel has become an increasingly frustrating experience, with countless horror stories of cancellations, delays, lost baggage, cramped seats, and poor service. For most of the 20th century flying was luxurious and fun, so it’s especially baffling that air travel is plagued by these problems in the 21st century. Sitaraman delves into the reasons behind this dismal state of affairs, tracing ...
The Future of Bidenomics (with Jared Bernstein)
February 13, 2024 08:00 - 40 minutesPresident Biden’s economic policies mark a paradigm shift away from the trickle-down economics that have held sway over Washington DC for the past 40 years. Bidenomics recognizes that a strong and inclusive economy grows from the middle class outwards, centering working Americans and their families rather than relying on a top-down approach that benefits the wealthy first and foremost. In this episode, President Biden’s chief economic advisor, Jared Bernstein, joins us to unpack the key ideas...
Making a case for the inheritance tax (with David Stasavage)
February 06, 2024 08:00 - 41 minutesOver the next two decades, $30 trillion of wealth is expected to be transferred from Baby Boomers to their heirs. Journalists and financial experts have been referring to this event as the “Great Wealth Transfer,” and it's important that we understand the policies that make such a monumental transferral of generational wealth possible—not to mention the tremendous economic and societal implications of this unprecedented economic activity. In this episode, we have the privilege of speaking wit...
How a New Economics Went Mainstream (with Suzanne Kahn)
January 30, 2024 08:00 - 37 minutesOver the past few decades, economists have gathered a lot of empirical evidence supporting the underlying truth of middle-out economics: that a thriving middle class is the cause of economic growth. Our friends at the Roosevelt Institute have produced a new report which outlines the events that led to our new understanding of how the economy really works. Suzanne Kahn, Vice President of the Think Tank at the Roosevelt Institute, joins us to talk about what's in the report and share how the pr...
Revisiting the Child Tax Credit (with Wendy Bach)
January 23, 2024 18:31 - 45 minutesA bipartisan group of lawmakers has agreed to expand the Child Tax Credit again, but it will be smaller than the pandemic-era credit was. If this version of the Child Tax Credit is passed by Congress and signed into law, it would benefit 16 million children in low-income families and lift at least half a million kids out of poverty. We thought it would be a good time to revisit this episode from 2021 with professor Wendy Bach, in which she explains everything you need to know about what the C...
Medicare Drug Price Negotiations with (Margarida Jorge)
January 16, 2024 16:29 - 44 minutesThe pharmaceutical industry is one of the most opaque industries in America, and they take advantage of this lack of transparency by setting ever-higher prices for lifesaving prescription drugs like insulin. But provisions in the Inflation Reduction Act are curtailing the exorbitant price-gouging strategies that the pharmaceutical industry uses to pump up their profit margins at the expense of seniors and people with disabilities who use Medicare. This week, we’re talking to Margarida Jorge, ...
Three Economic Issues that Could Shape the 2024 Elections
January 09, 2024 17:40 - 34 minutesNational elections are won and lost on the economy. Of course they are: the state of the economy affects individuals' job security, income levels, access to healthcare, education, and overall quality of life, so it's not surprising that voters evaluate candidates based on their proposed economic policies and their ability to address pressing economic challenges. As we kick off a big year for elections and the economy, we take time in this episode to discuss the three most important economic i...
Seizing the Middle Out Moment
January 02, 2024 08:00 - 20 minutesWhen Pitchfork Economics was started, our ideas about economic cause and effect were way outside the economic mainstream, and so much has changed in the last ten years. The economic world is shifting its thinking away from neoclassical ideas, and the primary middle-out economics messenger driving this paradigm shift is in the Oval Office. In this episode, Nick and Goldy explain how the podcast will sharpen our focus on how best to build the economy from the middle out. They’ll also distinguis...
Middle-Out Wins
December 26, 2023 08:00 - 25 minutes2023 was a big year for middle-out policy and research, so we are recapping some of the biggest middle-out moments that are improving people's lives and helping us close the book on America’s neoliberal era. Today, Civic Ventures writer Paul Constant joins Goldy to help recap the biggest middle-out successes of 2023 that have benefited workers, and are changing the way people think about economic cause and effect. This episode shines a light on policies, movements, labor actions/strikes, grou...
How the UAW strike benefits all workers (with Kate Bahn)
December 19, 2023 08:00 - 32 minutesBusiness reporting on labor unions tends to focus on speculation about how much striking workers might hurt the economy. But the reality is that successful strikes have a long-term positive impact on economic growth because they raise wages for all workers. Economist and researcher Kate Bahn, Director of Research from WorkRise argues that strikes, especially historic strikes such as the recent UAW strike, benefit both unionized and non-union workers, and have much broader ripple effects acros...
How Economists Invented Austerity and Paved the Way to Fascism (with Clara Mattei)
December 12, 2023 08:00 - 47 minutesWe already know that many mainstream economists advocate against the economic interests of the majority of working Americans and for the benefit of a tiny handful of super-rich people and corporations. But Clara Mattei argues that economists are actually guilty of something even more insidious: By promoting austerity measures that destabilize working people and consolidate wealth and power at the very top of the income scale, economists have created the perfect conditions for fascism to take ...
Revisiting the history of Middle-Out Economics (with Michael Tomasky)
December 05, 2023 08:00 - 45 minutesWe’ve lived in the shadow of trickle-down economics for over 40 years. During that time, our leaders unquestioningly embraced economic policies that prioritize the wealthiest and most powerful, with the idea that their wealth will eventually “trickle down” to everyone else.Of course, that wealth never has trickled down. Thankfully, our economic understanding has finally started to shift. This has been a landmark year in passing middle-out economic policies that prioritize the vast majority of...
Working Toward a Full Employment Economy (with Arnab Datta)
November 28, 2023 08:00 - 37 minutesIn its quest to combat inflation the Federal Reserve has seemingly done everything in its power to engineer a recession, which would throw millions of people out of work. Rather than question the Fed’s actions, mainstream economists cheered them on, claiming that we need multiple months of high unemployment to bring inflation down. But do we really need to immiserate America’s working class in order to save the economy? Today’s guest, Arnab Datta, and his colleagues at Employ America are prod...
Understanding the Sahm Rule (with economist Claudia Sahm)
November 21, 2023 08:00 - 42 minutesMainstream economists have been predicting a recession on the horizon for over a year, with some doomsayers even making up something called “a non-recession recession” to characterize the state of the economy. There’s no better person to cut through all this bluster and nonsense than the creator of one of the most reliable economic indicators created in the last few decades: the Sahm Rule, which aims to predict and track recessions in real time. Former Federal Reserve economist Claudia Sahm j...
Exploring American Inequality (with Nobel Laureate Angus Deaton)
November 14, 2023 08:00 - 44 minutesNo matter which indicator you’re using, American inequality has been increasing in recent decades. Whether you’re measuring the growing wealth gap, the stagnant wages of the middle class, or the concentration of wealth and power among a small group of elites, every indicator unfailingly suggests that inequality is getting worse. Nobel Laureate Angus Deaton joins the podcast to talk about his recent book on the subject, Economics in America: An Immigrant Economist Explores the Land of Inequali...
The return of child labor (with Nina Mast and Jennifer Sherer)
November 07, 2023 08:00 - 47 minutesAt a time when violations of child labor laws are on the rise nationally, state lawmakers around the country are successfully rolling back child labor protections. Jennifer Sherer and Nina Mast from the Economic Policy Institute have authored an article that insists lawmakers must act to strengthen standards, not erode the existing minimal standards designed to safeguard children from exploitation. They share insights into why weakening child labor protections could have detrimental effects o...
The path of political disintegration (with Peter Turchin)
October 31, 2023 07:00 - 45 minutesWhen Nick warned back in 2013 that the pitchforks were coming, he meant that if we continued immiserating the majority of citizens by enriching a wealthy few at the expense of everyone else, an uprising was inevitable. Unfortunately, this warning is still just as relevant ten years later. Peter Turchin joins the podcast to discuss his new book, End Times: Elites, Counter-Elites, and the Path of Political Disintegration, which looks to history (as well as the current turmoil in the United Stat...
Corporate Bullsh*t (with Joan Walsh and Donald Cohen)
October 24, 2023 07:00 - 35 minutesPoliticians and business interests have lied to the American people for centuries in order to protect their power and profits—and they tell the exact same lies every single time. Nick has co-written a book titled Corporate Bullsh*t with Joan Walsh and Donald Cohen, which reveals this trickle-down duplicity as plain as day by placing egregious past quotes from corporate executives and politicians next to equally outrageous contemporary arguments—all of which justify outcomes that line the pock...
The economics of belonging (with john a. powell)
October 17, 2023 07:00 - 48 minutesIf you’re a long-time listener, you’ve definitely heard us discuss the golden rule of middle out economics: The more people you include in the economy, the faster and more prosperous it grows for everybody. The Director of the Othering & Belonging Institute, john a. powell, agrees that inclusion is the key to a thriving economy, and he joins us to explain why the concept of belonging is so important for a healthy community. This episode originally aired on May 24, 2022. john a. powell is th...
How neoliberalism turned the work ethic against workers (with Elizabeth Anderson)
October 10, 2023 07:00 - 46 minutesThe majority of U.S. workers aren’t compensated anywhere near the value that they actually create for society, while the few who make the most money often work the least and contribute very little. Decades of neoliberal thinking has twisted one of the foundational American beliefs—the idea that hard work eventually reaps great rewards—into a celebration of greed and a dismissal of those of us who work the hardest. Returning guest Elizabeth Anderson explains how we can reclaim the American wor...
Setting the record straight on inflation (with Mike Konczal)
October 03, 2023 07:00 - 50 minutesThere have been a lot of bad takes on inflation out there in the media, from wild speculation about its causes to absurd predictions about when and how the wave of price increases would finally come to an end. But now just about everyone agrees that after two years of rising prices, inflation has finally slowed down. And while there’s still a long way to go, the situation is dramatically better now than it was even six months ago. Mike Konczal from the Roosevelt Institute recently did some re...
The Tyranny of Merit (with Michael Sandel)
September 26, 2023 07:00 - 57 minutesIn this wide-ranging conversation with one of our favorite authors, philosopher Michael Sandel explains how the concept of meritocracy has helped to create such a massive divide in American politics and culture. Michael Sandel is a world-renowned philosopher who teaches political philosophy at Harvard University. His course “Justice” is the first Harvard course to be made freely available online and has been viewed by tens of millions of people around the world. Sandel’s books relate enduri...
What the new Draft Merger Guidelines could mean for the economy (with Maggie Goodlander)
September 19, 2023 07:00 - 37 minutesEarlier this summer, the Justice Department and Federal Trade Commission (FTC) released a draft update of their Merger Guidelines, “which describe and guide the agencies’ review of mergers and acquisitions to determine compliance with federal antitrust laws.” Maggie Goodlander from the Justice Department joins the podcast to discuss why mergers can weaken competition and harm consumers and workers, and how these proposed guidelines can help bring competition back by making it harder for big c...
The CHIPS Act, explained (with Ronnie Chatterji)
September 12, 2023 07:00 - 37 minutesIt’s been a little over a year since President Biden signed the CHIPS and Science Act, which invested $231 billion into semiconductor manufacturing in the United States, into law. Despite the fact that those investments are already creating economic growth around the country, most Americans don’t recognize the impact that the CHIPS Act is already having on the national economy. Today, Ronnie Chatterji, the former CHIPS Coordinator at the White House, joins the pod to provide a better understa...
What labor shortage? (with Heidi Shierholz)
September 05, 2023 07:00 - 30 minutesWhen employers say they can’t find workers, what they really mean is that they can’t find enough people willing to work for what they want to offer. The so-called “labor shortage” we’ve heard so much about these last few years is actually just a wage shortage. And the solution is simple: pay people more. Labor Day weekend felt like a good time to revisit this subject with EPI President, Heidi Shierholz. This episode originally aired on May 25, 2021. Heidi Shierholz is the president of the E...
Why don't we fight poverty by just giving people money? (with Paul Niehaus)
August 29, 2023 07:00 - 38 minutesWe saw during the pandemic that giving people cash is good for individuals and the economy as a whole. It makes sense: When people have more money, they spend it in their communities and stimulate the local economy. So why don’t we give people money all the time? Our guest today started a charity that combats poverty by giving people cash, with no strings attached, to use how they wish. The results have been really encouraging. Paul Niehaus, co-founder of GiveDirectly, explains how his progra...
Power, progress, and technology (with Daron Acemoglu)
August 22, 2023 07:00 - 53 minutesNew technologies are sold as a net benefit to society as a whole, but the truth is that technological progress is only loosely correlated to the improved welfare of the majority of citizens. This is not to say that technology and innovation are bad—we’re big supporters of both—but when tech CEOs hold all the power to make decisions that affect all of us, that becomes a problem. For a long time, technology has been used by the rich and powerful to further enrich themselves and consolidate thei...
Wages need a revolution (with Michael Lind)
August 08, 2023 07:00 - 41 minutesToday we’re talking about wages—specifically, how the widespread suppression of wages is destroying the American economy. Author, professor, and fellow traveler Michael Lind just published a new book titled “Hell to Pay” that argues America is in need of a revolution in the way we think about work and wages. Lind warns that if American worker power isn’t restored to its previous highs, there’ll be hell to pay. (Sounds a bit like “the pitchforks are coming,” doesn’t it?) Michael Lind is the a...
How Industrial Policy actually works (with Isabel Estevez)
August 01, 2023 07:00 - 34 minutesIndustrial Policy (IP) has dominated conversations in economic and political circles thanks to President Biden’s big investments in manufacturing, infrastructure, and working Americans. But according to today’s guest, development economist Isabel Estevez, the conversation around IP is too narrow. IP is not just about manufacturing and clean energy, she argues—smart IP also encompasses policies that improve outcomes for people, like reducing child poverty and cleaning our drinking water. Isab...
Private equity’s plan to pillage America (with Brendan Ballou)
July 25, 2023 07:00 - 32 minutesOver the last decade, private equity firms wiped out nearly 600,000 jobs in the retail sector by taking over and bankrupting major retailers like Toys R Us and Payless Shoes. But in that same time, private equity also destroyed companies in healthcare, housing, medicine, and many other industries that affect our everyday lives. Today’s guest, federal prosecutor Brendan Ballou, explains how we can stop private equity’s plan to pillage America. Brendan Ballou is a federal prosecutor and served...
Bidenomics (with Bharat Ramamurti)
July 18, 2023 07:00 - 43 minutes“Bidenomics” is closely aligned with many—probably even most—of the middle-out economic principles that we discuss on this podcast every week. Much to our surprise and delight, Joe Biden has become the first President in 40 years to reject trickle-down economics in favor of building the economy from the middle out, and the results speak for themselves: Since the pandemic began, America has seen the strongest growth of any leading economy in the world. The economy has added 13 million jobs, in...
Why good jobs are good for business (with Zeynep Ton)
July 11, 2023 07:00 - 43 minutesLow pay is obviously terrible for workers, but a growing body of research proves that it’s bad for businesses, too. Smaller paychecks lead to higher turnover, decreased productivity, and poor sales. Will low-wage employers in the grocery, retail, and restaurant industries ever understand that their employees are their most important asset? Zeynep Ton hopes so. She’s written a book explaining how labor investments can pay for themselves, and she joins us today to explain why better-paying jobs...
How economics can create a more sustainable planet (with Sarah Bloom Raskin)
July 04, 2023 07:00 - 41 minutesIn the 21st century, summertime isn’t just for lounging on the beach and trips to the ice cream shop. Climate change has made summer much more unpleasant—and even dangerous. This year alone, New York City and Chicago have been choked with wildfire smoke and the southern U.S. suffered through a wave of record-breaking high temperatures. That’s why we’re revisiting our conversation with financial regulation expert Sarah Bloom Raskin about how fiscal policy can help save the environment. She exp...
Summer Reading List
June 27, 2023 07:00 - 36 minutesIt’s Paul and Goldy’s summer reading list! We want to know what you’re reading, too. Leave us a comment on Instagram: @pitchforkeconomics Remember to shop local and small when you can, or order from IndieBound or Bookshop.org—both of which support independent bookstores! All of these books are also likely available through your library. Every book mentioned in this episode: Corporate Bullsh*t - Nick Hanauer, Joan Walsh, and Donald Cohen The Ministry for the Future - Kim Stanley Robinson A...
Doughnut Economics (with Andrew Fanning)
June 20, 2023 07:00 - 36 minutesOn its website, the Doughnut Economics Action Lab describes Doughnut Economics as “a compass for human prosperity in the 21st century.” Its proponents prioritize economic solutions that meet both the basic needs of all people—food, housing, equity, democratic inclusion—and the ecological needs of the planet that we all call home. Economist Andrew Fanning joins the show to discuss how Doughnut Economics can redefine economics for the 21st century, and he doesn’t sugarcoat the importance of imp...
How the franchise system is rigged (with Marshall Steinbaum)
June 13, 2023 07:00 - 43 minutesIn the 20th century, big corporations sold franchising to Americans as a less risky way to buy into business ownership. But in recent years, the franchise industry has tipped hugely in favor of franchisors, extracting wealth from both franchisees and the employees who work for them through complicated contracts that kill competition and rig the system. Economist Marshall Steinbaum returns to the podcast to share the findings from his deep dive into the (intentionally) complex and arcane franc...
Americonned (with Sean Claffey and Dave Pederson)
June 06, 2023 07:00 - 35 minutesAmericonned, a new documentary featuring our own Nick Hanauer, examines the inequality crisis currently plaguing the United States. The film shows the hidden struggles of American families and dissects the elite’s calculated political maneuvers to preserve and even grow their own wealth at everyone else’s expense. The filmmakers join us to share their experience documenting the long-overdue uprising of American workers, and explain how the process of making their film gave them hope for the f...
Can the economy be liberated? (with Jeremie Greer)
May 30, 2023 07:00 - 36 minutesEven when our nation's prosperity was most broadly shared in the 1950s and 1960s, Black people and other communities of color were purposefully denied the shared prosperity that white families enjoyed. And because inclusion drives economic growth, excluding anyone from the economy is bad for all of us. Jeremie Greer, Liberation in a Generation’s co-director, explains how racism is profitable under our current economic system, and breaks down how we can build a Liberation Economy that truly in...
Higher minimum wages are creating more jobs (with Michael Reich)
May 23, 2023 07:00 - 38 minutesTen years ago, Nick was called "near insane" for saying that substantially raising the minimum wage would create jobs. In retrospect, it seems obvious: After all, if no one has any money, who will buy all the stuff? Researchers at University of California, Berkeley have found more data to support this theory in a first-of-its-kind study on the effects of the $15 minimum wage. Michael Reich, one of the economists who worked on this exciting report, shares his findings with us. Michael Reich i...
Do we need an Economic Bill of Rights? (with Mark Paul)
May 16, 2023 07:00 - 37 minutesWe learn in grade school that American citizens are endowed with certain inalienable rights, but basic necessities like housing and education aren’t protected by the Constitution. Imagine how different this country might be if affordable health care and guaranteed employment were included in our Bill of Rights. That’s the vision that economist Mark Paul outlines in his new book, The Ends of Freedom. Mark Paul is an assistant professor of economics at the Bloustein School of Planning and Pub...
The case for inclusive growth (with JP Julien)
May 09, 2023 07:00 - 32 minutesAt the core of middle-out economics is the idea that the more people we include in the economy, the faster and more prosperous it grows. And this inclusionary principle isn’t something we just made up—there’s actual data to support it. Our conversation with JP Julien from McKinsey and Company outlines what inclusion can mean in the context of an economy that works for everyone. This episode originally aired on July 6, 2021. JP Julien is a Partner at McKinsey & Company, where he serves US fe...
Can economics save the world? (with Erik Angner)
May 02, 2023 07:00 - 43 minutesWe all want to live happier, more fulfilling lives and build a better future for ourselves, but can economics help to make that dream a reality? Economist and philosopher Erik Angner is so confident that economics can save the world that he wrote a whole book about it. Erik helps Nick and Goldy overcome their usual cynicism by pointing out all the amazing progress that has been made in the economics profession, and he explains how economics can help build an even more glorious future for ever...