People Conversations by Citizens' Media TV
357 episodes - English - Latest episode: 24 days ago - ★★★★★ - 2 ratingsA podcast about non-violent, MMT direct activism, introducing Modern Monetary Theory to the world, both online and in person.
Hosted by third-year MMT activist, Jeff Epstein.
This channel was formerly called People Conversations, by Citizens' Media TV (CMTV). All People Conversations interviews remain intact in this channel. Any MMT articles I write remain hosted on the CMTV website.
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Episodes
Ep150: Maren Poitras, creator and director of Finding the Money
April 24, 2024 01:41 - 1 hour - 101 MBWelcome to episode 150 of Activist #MMT. Today I talk with Maren Poitras, the creator and director of the MMT documentary, Finding the Money. I had the pleasure of seeing this film on October 1st, 2023, in New York City, with my Torrens professor Steven Hail, Torrens administrator Gabie Bond, and Torrens classmate Susan Borden. After the film, we all went to a nearby bar-restaurant, and I got to meet and speak with Maren at length. (A list of the audio chapters in this episode can be found ...
Episode 151 (preview): Maren Poitras: How can YOU help Finding the Money be seen by others?
April 13, 2024 16:33 - 4 minutes - 5.09 MBHere's a preview of my soon-to-be-released interview with Finding the Money director, Maren Poitras. It's a four-minute segment where Maren describes what YOU can do to help Finding the Money be seen by others. The big launch is less than three weeks away. This means the most important thing is to get people to buy tickets for screenings. The documentary's website (https://www.findingmoneyfilm.com) is the best place to go for this, and especially the "where to watch" page: https://tinyurl.com...
Episode 148[1/2]: Steve Keen: MMT says government spending creates money. It's correct.
February 26, 2024 17:20 - 38 minutes - 60.6 MBWelcome to episode 148 of Activist #MMT. Today I talk with post-Keynesian economist Steve Keen about his decades-long fight against mainstream economics, what MMT convinced him of, and the couple parts of MMT he still disagrees with. This first part is a half-hour long audio interview, which will be followed next month by an hour-and-a-half-long video interview, where Steve walks me through the basics of his Minsky modeling software, and why he believes it's an important tool for MMTers. (Her...
Full audio: John Harvey's Contending Perspectives: Chapter 1: Introduction [EDITED]
October 03, 2023 23:55 - 20 minutes - 27.5 MBJohn Harvey reads the introduction to (chapter one of) his book, Contending Perspectives. Here's the from where this audio came. Here's a list of links to (released so far) in his 2021 book Contending Perspectives. Note the original video is unedited, but the audio has been edited to eliminate obvious mistakes, coughs, interruptions, and etc. Audio chapters Use the below timestamps to navigate to each major section and occurrence in this section: 0:00 - The Cowboy Economist's cousin, John ...
Full audio: John Harvey's Contending Perspectives: Chapter 00: Before we begin [EDITED]
September 17, 2023 15:01 - 16 minutes - 21.1 MBHere's the from where this audio came. Here's a list of links to (released so far) in his 2021 book Contending Perspectives. Note the original video is unedited, but the audio has been edited to eliminate obvious mistakes, coughs, interruptions, and etc. Audio chapters Use the below timestamps to navigate to each major section and occurrence in this section: 0:00 - Opening thoughts by John's cousin, the Cowboy Economist 6:37 - Page vi: Acknowledgements
Episode 147[2/2]: Brian Romanchuk: The secondary market through the eyes of a bond analyst
August 29, 2023 13:42 - 17 minutes - 27.4 MBWelcome to episode 147 of Activist #MMT. Today's the second in my two-part conversation with author, mathematician, and bond analyst Brian Romanchuk (Twitter/), on the basics of the secondary market and how it relates to the primary market. Today in part two, Brian continues describing the participants in the secondary market, why they do what they do, and shares several anecdotes from his many years of experience as a bond analyst for fixed income recipients in Canada. A fuller introduction ...
Episode 146[1/2]: Brian Romanchuk: The secondary market through the eyes of a bond analyst
July 31, 2023 19:51 - 1 hour - 103 MBWelcome to episode 146 of Activist #MMT. Today I talk with author, mathematician, and bond analyst Brian Romanchuk, on the basics of the secondary market and how it relates to the primary market. Brian starts with a brief tutorial of how bonds are priced, which is seen very differently from the points of view of the primary and secondary markets. For an in-depth treatment of this topic, you can listen to episodes and of MMT Podcast with Steven Hail. (Here's a link to part two. A list of the...
Episode 145 [3/3]: Emily Ruhl: Religiously-defensible, divinely-supported genocide
June 29, 2023 14:03 - 58 minutes - 88.7 MBWelcome to episode 142 of Activist #MMT. Today's the final part of my three-part conversation with Emily Ruhl, on his 2008 paper, . Today we discuss principles seven to ten. My full and detailed question and summary list can be found in the show notes to . Also, be sure to see the list "audio chapters" in all three parts (look below!) to find exactly where each topic is discussed. You can financially support this podcast by going to . For as little as a dollar a month, all patrons get exclus...
Episode 144 [2/3]: Emily Ruhl: Religiously-defensible, divinely-supported genocide
May 28, 2023 13:46 - 56 minutes - 85.6 MBWelcome to episode 144 of Activist #MMT. Today's part two of a three-part conversation with historian, author, and Harvard master's graduate, Emily Ruhl, on her new paper and master's thesis, . You will find my detailed question list at the bottom of the show notes for . Also, be sure to see the list "audio chapters" in all three parts (look below!) to find exactly where each topic is discussed. A full introduction can be found at the beginning of part one, but for now, let's get right back t...
Episode 143 [1/3]: Emily Ruhl: Religiously-defensible, divinely-supported genocide
April 29, 2023 22:50 - 1 hour - 107 MBWelcome to episode 143 of Activist #MMT. Today I talk with historian, author, and Harvard master's graduate, Emily Ruhl, on her new paper and master's thesis, . This is the first of a three-part episode. You will find my full and detailed question list at the bottom of today's show notes. Also, be sure to see the list "audio chapters" in all three parts to find exactly where each topic is discussed. (Here are links to parts and . A list of the audio chapters in this episode can be found righ...
Modern Money Doughnuts: Torrens Student Susan Borden (season 3, episode 3, audio only)
April 22, 2023 23:16 - 1 hour - 70 MBWelcome to to the audio of season 3, episode 3 of Modern Money Doughnuts (MMD), hosted by Steven Hail and Gabrielle Bond. In series 3 of Modern Money Doughnuts, we meet some of the students from the Modern Money Lab and Torrens University Australia Masters Degree in the Economics of Sustainability. Today we talk to Susan Borden, one of our amazing students, about what she's learning in the course, what we're discussing and working on, and what motivated her to take up this challenge. Plus we'...
Ep142 [3/3]: Scott Fullwiler: Modern Central Bank Operations: The General Principles [principles 7-10 of 10]
March 25, 2023 21:58 - 1 hour - 86.9 MBWelcome to episode 142 of Activist #MMT. Today's the final part of my three-part conversation with Scott Fullwiler, on his 2008 paper, . Today we discuss principles seven to ten. My full and detailed question and summary list can be found in the show notes to . Also, be sure to check out the list of audio chapters at the bottom of today's show notes, to find precisely where each principle, and otherwise, can be found. (A list of the audio chapters in today's episode can be found at the bottom...
Modern Money Doughnuts: Torrens Student Nathan McMillan (season 3, episode 2, audio only)
March 06, 2023 23:43 - 39 minutes - 45.7 MBWelcome to the audio of season 2, episode 2 of Modern Money Doughnuts (MMD), hosted by Steven Hail and Gabrielle Bond. In series 3 of Modern Money Doughnuts, we meet some of the students from the Modern Money Lab and Torrens University Australia Masters Degree in the Economics of Sustainability. Today we talk to Nathan McMillan, one of our amazing students, about what he's learning in the course, what we're discussing and working on, and what motivated him to take up this challenge. Plus we'l...
Ep141 [2/3]: Scott Fullwiler: Modern Central Bank Operations: The General Principles [principles 3-6 of 10]
February 25, 2023 23:20 - 1 hour - 94.1 MBWelcome to episode 141 of Activist #MMT. Today's part two of my three-part conversation with Scott Fullwiler, on his 2008 paper, . Last time in part one, we discussed some generic but related topics, and then principles one and two. Today in part two, we discuss principles three to six. Next time in part three, we discuss seven through ten. My full and detailed question and summary list can be found in the show notes to . Also, be sure to check out the list of audio chapters at the bottom of ...
Modern Money Doughnuts: Torrens Student Jeff Epstein (season 3, episode 1)
February 08, 2023 20:50 - 37 minutes - 42.5 MBWelcome to season 3, episode 1 of Modern Money Doughnuts (MMD), hosted by Steven Hail and Gabrielle Bond. In series 3 of Modern Money Doughnuts, we meet some of the students from the Modern Money Lab and Torrens University Australia Masters Degree in the Economics of Sustainability. Today we talk to Activist #MMT Jeff Epstein, one of our amazing students, about what he's learning in the course, what we're discussing and working on, and what motivated him to take up this challenge. Plus we'll ...
Ep140 [1/3]: Scott Fullwiler: Modern Central Bank Operations: The General Principles [principles 1-2 of 10]
January 29, 2023 14:49 - 53 minutes - 78 MBWelcome to episode 140 of Activist #MMT. Today I talk with Scott Fullwiler on his 2008 paper, . Today's part one of a three-part conversation. Today in part one we discuss some generic but related topics, and then principles one and two. Next time in part two we cover principles three to six, and then in part three, principles seven to ten. My full and detailed question and summary list can be found at the bottom of these show notes (look below!). Also, be sure to check out the list of audio ...
Full audio: John Harvey's Contending Perspectives: Chapter 2: Economics as a scientific discipline
January 08, 2023 16:11 - 1 hour - 112 MBHere's the from where this audio came. Here's a list of links to in his 2021 book Contending Perspectives.
Ep137: Steve Kelsey: Trans-jurisdictional caring
January 05, 2023 21:14 - 1 hour - 117 MBWelcome to episode 137 of activist #MMT. Today I talk with Steve Kelsey, about what money and money issuance, and our entire money system, should and could be, if we could start over and design it from scratch. You'll find two of his papers linked below (in the Resources section). Before that, we discuss , which is one of the most viral MMT tweet threads of all time more than 3000 retweets and nearly 7000 likes. The topic of his thread is the big lies told by former UK Prime Minister Margaret...
The Reality of Inflation with Fadhel Kaboub
December 29, 2022 04:26 - 11 minutes - 14.9 MBDennison University economics professor Fadhel Kaboub discusses the reality of inflation. Dr. Kaboub has recently been appointed as Under-Secretary-General for Financing for Development of the OEC. See: Here's the video of this snippet, with thanks to KRTD Media: It was extracted from this video, starting at around the seventeen-minute mark: This video was curated by Activist #MMT - the podcast, and produced by KRTD Media. Follow Fadhel Kaboub on Twitter at @ Follow Activist #MMT at @ Fol...
Full audio: John Harvey's Contending Perspectives: Chapter 1: Introduction
December 11, 2022 19:09 - 20 minutes - 27.5 MBHere's the from where this audio came. Here's a list of links to in his 2021 book Contending Perspectives.
Full audio: John Harvey's Contending Perspectives: Chapter 00: Before we begin
December 03, 2022 18:19 - 17 minutes - 24.1 MBHere's the from where this audio came. Here's a list of links to in his 2021 book Contending Perspectives.
Ep136 [2/2]: Gabie Bond: Climate change, Torrens, and the job guarantee
November 28, 2022 21:15 - 1 hour - 86.7 MBWelcome to episode 136 of Activist #MMT. Today's part two of my two-part conversation with Gabie Bond. Last month, in , we talked not about economics, but all about music. Gabie's a classically trained violist and I'm a classically trained singer. Today in part two, we talk about MMT, Torrens University, climate change, and the job guarantee. The Sustainable Prosperity Action Group has written a twenty-five-page report geared to introducing the job guarantee to the general public, and advocat...
Ep135 [1/2]: Gabie Bond: Talking all about music [NOT MMT]
October 30, 2022 13:55 - 1 hour - 93.3 MBWelcome to episode 135 of Activist #MMT. Today I talk with Gabie Bond. In part two, we talk about MMT, Torrens University, climate change, and the job guarantee. In hour one, however, we talk all about music. (To be clear, this first hour has little to do with economics.) As you heard before the opening music, Gabie is a classically trained violist. (Her accompanist and partner is a classically trained pianist.) I'm a classically trained singer, and for the past year have been learning guitar...
Full audio: Cowboy Economist #23: Is we is or is we ain't in a recession? (John Harvey)
October 12, 2022 18:16 - 7 minutes - 10.3 MBThis is the full audio from the Cowboy Economist video #23: Is we is or is we ain't in a recession? Here is the link to the A link to the full audio of all Cowboy Economist videos can be found in the show notes to .
Ep134 [2/2]: Charles Hayden: Inflation and Warren's monopoly price setter
September 25, 2022 13:27 - 1 hour - 114 MBWelcome to episode 134 of Activist #MMT. Today's part two of my two-part conversation with Charles Hayden. In , Charles described how he created at least three important milestones in MMT history, and how Warren Mosler played a integral role his journey to understanding and accepting MMT. Today in part two, we discuss some of the many varied realistic views of inflation, and how each of them is connected by the fact that the national government is the monopoly price setter for the entire econ...
Modern Money Doughnuts, seas2-ep12: Fadhel Kaboub: climate justice and monetary sovereignty (audio podcast)
September 05, 2022 19:25 - 35 minutes - 33 MBWelcome to season 2, episode 12 of Modern Money Doughnuts (MMD), hosted by Steven Hail and Gabrielle Bond. MMD is an international show about modern monetary theory and ecological economics. This week, Steven and Gabie talk to Fadhel Kaboub, the President of the Global Institute for Sustainable Prosperity and consultant to Modern Money Lab , is one of the world's leading MMT economists and an expert on sustainability, and the global south. We asked Fadhel about what has been driving global fo...
Ep133 [1/2]: Charles Hayden: His role in early MMT milestones (and Warren Mosler)
August 28, 2022 13:18 - 58 minutes - 89.7 MBWelcome to episode 133 of Activist #MMT. Today I talk with Charles Hayden about his role in creating at least three important milestones in MMT history, and how Warren Mosler played a integral role his journey to understanding and accepting MMT. The first milestone, as hinted at in the cool quote (what you heard at the very beginning), is the between Warren and Austrian economist Robert Murphy. The second is the between MMT economist Pavlina Tcherneva and billionaire Mark Cuban, as hosted b...
Ep132[3/3,6/6] John Harvey on exchange rates and neoclassicism [guest host: Johnathan Wilson]
August 21, 2022 14:47 - 58 minutes - 75.9 MBWelcome to episode 132 of Activist #MMT. Today's the final part of a six-part series with Texas Christian University (TCU) economics professor and John Harvey. Parts four through six are also the first main interview of Activist #MMT hosted by someone other than me. Today's guest host is my own former guest, MMT researcher, Texas lawyer, and author, Jonathan Wilson. Jonathan and I spoke in episodes and . (A list of the audio chapters in this episode can be found at the bottom of this post....
Ep131[2/3,5/6] John Harvey on exchange rates and neoclassicism [guest host: Johnathan Wilson]
August 15, 2022 12:00 - 1 hour - 98.2 MBWelcome to episode 131 of Activist #MMT. Today's part five of a six-part series with Texas Christian University (TCU) economics professor and John Harvey. Parts four through six are also the first main interview of Activist #MMT hosted by someone other than me. Today's guest host is my own former guest, MMT researcher, Texas lawyer, and author, Jonathan Wilson. Jonathan and I spoke in episodes and . (A list of the audio chapters in this episode can be found at the bottom of this post. Here...
Modern Money Doughnuts, seas2-ep11: Matthew Rimmer (audio podcast)
August 10, 2022 13:58 - 36 minutes - 16.1 MBWelcome to season 2, episode 11 of Modern Money Doughnuts (MMD), hosted by Steven Hail and Gabrielle Bond. MMD is an international show about modern monetary theory and ecological economics. This week, Steven and Gabie talk to Professor Matthew Rimmer, an expert in intellectual property and innovation law at the Queensland University of Technology. Matthew has recently written about the Right to Repair movement and how we must do more to incentivise the repair and re-use of existing products ...
Ep130[1/3,4/6] John Harvey on exchange rates and neoclassicism [guest host: Johnathan Wilson]
August 07, 2022 14:17 - 1 hour - 98.9 MBWelcome to episode 130 of Activist #MMT. Today's part four of a six-part series with Texas Christian University (TCU) economics professor and John Harvey. Parts four through six are also the first main interview of Activist #MMT hosted by someone other than me. Today's guest host is my own former guest, MMT researcher, Texas lawyer, and author, Jonathan Wilson. (Jonathan and I spoke in episodes and .) (A list of the audio chapters in this episode can be found at the bottom of this post. He...
Modern Money Doughnuts, seas2-ep10: Con Michalakis (audio podcast)
August 03, 2022 14:48 - 37 minutes - 17.4 MBWelcome to season 2, episode 10 of Modern Money Doughnuts (MMD), hosted by Steven Hail and Gabrielle Bond. MMD is an international show about modern monetary theory and ecological economics. This week, Steven and Gabie talk to Con Michalakis. Con is the Chief Investment Officer for Statewide Superannuation, South Australia's biggest retirement pension fund. He is also the Chair of Modern Money Lab. We will ask Con about how he came to understand MMT, and about his role in launching our suite ...
Ep129[2/2]: Dirk Ehnts: Raising interest rates is like blowing up the garden to weed it
July 31, 2022 13:28 - 1 hour - 91.2 MBWelcome to episode 129 of Activist #MMT. Today's part two of my two-part conversation with Dirk Ehnts. Last week in , Dirk described his journey from a PhD in mainstream economics, to discovering and accepting MMT. Today, I ask questions circling around his new co-authored piece for the Gower Initiative, called . It starts with some very basic questions about how and why the central bank maintains the stability of the payment system. I then ask the specific mechanics of the central bank's rai...
Ep128[1/2] Dirk Ehnts: From mainstream to MMT
July 25, 2022 22:28 - 1 hour - 96.6 MBWelcome to episode 128 of Activist #MMT. Today I talk with Dirk Ehnts, about his personal journey to MMT, which happened only after obtaining a PhD in mainstream economics. One of Dirk's first hints that something was wrong, was discovering that was not representative of the world in which we actually live. Here are . He was also told by his professors that some of what is obviously true must be ignored, which only serves to further diverge the theory from the world it purports to explain. O...
Ep127 [3/3,3/6]: John Harvey: MMT, the UK, and pound sterling
July 17, 2022 13:50 - 57 minutes - 80.8 MBWelcome to episode 127 of Activist #MMT. Today's part three in a six-part series with Texas Christian University (TCU) economics professor and , John Harvey. The first three parts are hosted by me, the final three by MMT researcher, Texas lawyer, and my previous guest, Johnathan Wilson. Jonathan and John talk about how MMT can apply to nations outside the US, using Russia as an example, and also some of the core theoretical and ideological differences between MMTers and mainstream economists,...
Ep126[2/3,2/6]: John Harvey: MMT, the UK, and pound sterling
July 11, 2022 01:03 - 1 hour - 87.6 MBWelcome to episode 126 of Activist #MMT. Today's part two in a six-part series with Texas Christian University (TCU) economics professor and , John Harvey. The first three parts are hosted by me, the final three by MMT researcher, Texas lawyer, and my previous guest, Johnathan Wilson. Jonathan and John talk about how MMT can apply to nations outside the US, using Russia as an example, and also some of the core theoretical and ideological differences between MMTers and mainstream economists, f...
Modern Money Doughnuts, seas2-ep9: Dirk Ehnts (audio podcast)
July 07, 2022 18:46 - 44 minutes - 22.2 MBWelcome to season 2, episode 9 of Modern Money Doughnuts (MMD), hosted by Steven Hail and Gabrielle Bond. MMD is an international show about modern monetary theory and ecological economics. This week, Steven and Gabie talk to Dr. Dirk Ehnts, the leading European modern monetary theorist. Dirk recently published a paper titled Modern Monetary Theory: The Right Compass for Decision-Making. We ask him about what motivated him to write this paper and about its content. (All episodes of Modern Mon...
Ep125[1/3,1/6] John Harvey: MMT, the UK, and pound sterling
July 03, 2022 17:29 - 56 minutes - 79.6 MBWelcome to episode 125 of Activist #MMT. Today's the first in a six-part series with Texas Christian University (TCU) economics professor and , John Harvey. The first three parts are hosted by me, the final three by MMT researcher, Texas lawyer, and my previous guest, Johnathan Wilson. Jonathan and John talk about how MMT can apply to nations outside the US, using Russia as an example, and also some of the core theoretical and ideological differences between MMTers and mainstream economists, ...
Full audio: Cowboy Economist #21: Cousin John speaks to the Northeast Tarrant County Democrats about the Job Guarantee! (John Harvey)
July 02, 2022 15:42 - 26 minutes - 24.6 MBThe full audio from the Cowboy Economist video #02: How the private sector finances its deficits. Here is the link to the A link to the full audio of all Cowboy Economist videos can be found in the show notes to .
Full audio: Cowboy Economist #22: Explaining Inflation (John Harvey)
July 02, 2022 15:42 - 21 minutes - 20.2 MBThis is the full audio from the Cowboy Economist video #22: Explaining Inflation Here is the link to the A link to the full audio of all Cowboy Economist videos can be found in the show notes to .
Full audio: Cowboy Economist #20: The Ballad of MMT (John Harvey)
July 02, 2022 15:38 - 1 minute - 2.46 MBThe full audio from the Cowboy Economist video #20: The Ballad of MMT. Here is the link to the A link to the full audio of all Cowboy Economist videos can be found in the show notes to .
Full audio: Cowboy Economist #19: A review of Dr. Stephanie Kelton's The Deficit Myth (John Harvey)
July 02, 2022 15:34 - 21 minutes - 29.6 MBThe full audio from the Cowboy Economist video #19: A review of Dr. Stephanie Kelton's The Deficit Myth Here is the link to the A link to the full audio of all Cowboy Economist videos can be found in the show notes to .
Full audio: Cowboy Economist #19a: A review of Dr. Stephanie Kelton's The Deficit Myth (John Harvey)
July 02, 2022 15:34 - 5 minutes - 5.82 MBThe full audio from the Cowboy Economist video #19a: A review of Dr. Stephanie Kelton's The Deficit Myth. Here is the link to the A link to the full audio of all Cowboy Economist videos can be found in the show notes to .
Full audio: Cowboy Economist #18: Paying COVID-19 to go away. (John Harvey)
July 02, 2022 15:33 - 3 minutes - 4.31 MBThe full audio from the Cowboy Economist video #18: Paying COVID-19 to go away. Here is the link to the A link to the full audio of all Cowboy Economist videos can be found in the show notes to .
Full audio: Cowboy Economist #17: M..m..m..my Corona! (John Harvey)
July 02, 2022 15:29 - 22 minutes - 30.9 MBThe full audio from the Cowboy Economist video #17: M..m..m..my Corona! Here is the link to the A link to the full audio of all Cowboy Economist videos can be found in the show notes to .
Full audio: Cowboy Economist #12: What actually causes inflation part one (John Harvey)
July 02, 2022 15:29 - 12 minutes - 17.4 MBThe full audio from the Cowboy Economist video #12: What actually causes inflation part one Here is the link to the A link to the full audio of all Cowboy Economist videos can be found in the show notes to .
Full audio: Cowboy Economist #15: Universal Healthcare (John Harvey)
July 02, 2022 15:29 - 9 minutes - 13.4 MBThe full audio from the Cowboy Economist video #15: Universal Healthcare Here is the link to the A link to the full audio of all Cowboy Economist videos can be found in the show notes to .
Full audio: Cowboy Economist #13: What actually causes inflation part two (John Harvey)
July 02, 2022 15:29 - 7 minutes - 9.74 MBThe full audio from the Cowboy Economist video #13: What actually causes inflation part two Here is the link to the A link to the full audio of all Cowboy Economist videos can be found in the show notes to .
Modern Money Doughnuts, seas2-ep7: Mark Diesendorf
June 08, 2022 23:23 - 41 minutes - 18.6 MBWelcome to season 2, episode 7 of Modern Money Doughnuts (MMD), hosted by Steven Hail and Gabrielle Bond. MMD is an international show about modern monetary theory and ecological economics. This week, Steven and Gabie talk to Professor Mark Diesendorf. Mark is an expert in renewable energy and how we can plan for a future that is ecologically sustainable and socially just. He has a long-standing interest in ecological economics. We will ask Mark about his upcoming book on planetary boundaries...
Ep124[2/2]: Steven Hail: New economics of sustainability graduate program (Torrens and Modern Money Lab)
June 05, 2022 13:20 - 49 minutes - 71.5 MBWelcome to episode 123 of Activist #MMT - podcast. Today's part two of my two-part conversation with Steven Hail, discussing the new and unprecedented graduate program in economics of sustainability. The program, which starts in September 2022, will be run by Torrens University, is , and is primarily developed by Steven and Australia's leading ecological economist, Phil Lawn. Last week in , Steven talked about how the program came to be, the resistance to be expected from neoclassical economi...