My Favourite Elliott Smith Song artwork

My Favourite Elliott Smith Song

163 episodes - English - Latest episode: 9 days ago - ★★★★★ - 70 ratings

The premise of this podcast is very simple - in each episode, we speak to a famous fan of Elliott Smith's to discuss their favourite song of his and how they got into his music.

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Episodes

S6 Ep10: Mikaela Davis

March 20, 2024 14:30 - 32 minutes

Joining us for episode 10 of the season is musician, Mikaela Davis. Mikaela is a harpist and songwriter based in Catskill, New York. Mikaela credits Elliott Smith with helping 'spark' her professional music career, as it was her cover of Twilight that helped bring her to the attention of a booking agent while she was still a college student. She's now a firmly established artist with her 2023 album And Southern Star released to critical claim by Kill Rock Stars (in another Elliott parallel...

S6 Ep9: Rey Villalobos (The Coral Sea)

March 06, 2024 15:30 - 24 minutes

Our guest for today's episode is Rey Villalobos, who releases music under the name The Coral Sea.  Rey started out as The Coral Sea back in 2004 and has released several albums since then - including Golden Planet Sky which came out last year.  Before he went solo, Rey began his music career as a drummer. Playing in bands in Los Angeles and Portland - where we moved in similar ciricles to Ellliott Smith.  In this interview he talks about those days, covering A Distorted Reality is a neces...

S6 Ep8: Spencer Fox

February 21, 2024 12:30 - 30 minutes

Today we're joined by musician, Spencer Fox. Spencer is the guitarist in the New York-based band Charly Bliss. The band have released two albums to date with Guppy coming in 2017 and Young Enough in 2019, and they've recently been in the studio recording their third record too. We had a great time chatting to Spencer. He's a self-confessed major Elliott Smith fan and had a lot to say on his pick for his favourite song, the YouTube rabbit holes he goes down and he kindly humoured attempts...

S6 Ep7: Violet Mayugba (Destroy Boys)

February 07, 2024 12:00 - 43 minutes

Our guest today is Violet Mayugba. Violet is the guitarist and a founding member of the band, Destroy Boys. The group formed back in 2015 in Sacramento, California and have gone on to release three studio albums, with one more on the way - in fact, they had just finished recording it the day before this interview was recorded. Violet is a huge Elliott Smith fan. She talks about her favourite song pick and the personal way she relates to it very openly and honestly, and we loved speaking ...

S6 Ep6: Lily O'Farrell (@vulgadrawings)

January 24, 2024 12:30 - 36 minutes

Our guest today is Lily O'Farrell, who you may know by her online name @vulgadrawings. Lily is a cartoonist and writer based in London. She began publishing feminist cartoons on Instagram in 2018 and has since reached more than 300,000 followers. She's also published a book, released a podcast (her recent series No Worries If Not is well worth listening to) and, yes, even created a number of Elliott Smith memes. In this interview, we discuss what makes Elliott's music meme-worthy, whethe...

S6 Ep5: Shannon Lay

January 10, 2024 12:30 - 40 minutes

Welcome to our first episode of 2024 with Shannon Lay! Shannon is a solo musician based in Los Angeles, who's released four solo albums, as well as a collection of covers that came out last year. And on that covers album is a version of Angeles (by Elliott Smith), which you can hear at the very end of this episode. Before that though, we have the full interview with Shannon, where she discusses Figure 8, listening to albums from start to finish and the lyrical mastery in her favourite son...

S6 Ep4: Margaret Glaspy

December 20, 2023 14:30 - 28 minutes

Joining us for our last episode of the year is musician, Margaret Glaspy. Margaret, who is based in New York City, released her latest album - Echo the Diamond - in August this year. The record is Margaret's third full-length album, and follows on from 2020's Devotion and 2016's Emotions and Math. Margaret says Elliott Smith has been a big influence across her career, so in this episode we dive deeper into that, how she defines the Elliott 'vibe' and why her favourite song pick means so ...

S6 Ep3: John Vanderslice

December 13, 2023 15:00 - 31 minutes

Our guest today is John Vanderslice. John is a musician, producer and the owner of the legendary Tiny Telephone studio, which initially began in the Mission district of San Francisco. Bands who've recorded at Tiny Telephone with John include the likes of Death Cab for Cutie, Okkervil River, the Mountain Goats, St. Vincent and many, many more. Embarking on his musical odyssey as a singer/songwriter, John  has left an indelible mark with the release of 17 albums since 2000. Recently, he und...

S6 Ep2: Kimbra

November 15, 2023 05:00 - 29 minutes

Our guest today is Kimbra. Kimbra is a musician originally from New Zealand but is now based in New York City. You may have first heard of her when she sang on the track Somebody That I Used To Know in 2011 alongside Gotye, who wrote the single. The pair went on to win two Grammys for Record of the Year and Best Pop Duo/Group Performance. These two Grammy wins are part of a huge career, which includes signing with Warner Bros, multiple collaborations, an appearance on a Sims computer gam...

S6 Ep1: Paul Rees

November 01, 2023 08:01 - 31 minutes

Our first guest of the new season is author, Paul Rees. Paul has had a great career as a music writer. He's held senior positions at magazines such as Q and Kerrang, he's written several books including a best-seller on the life of Robert Plant, and most recently, penned a biography of Elliott Smith titled, Shooting Star. In this interview we discuss that book, how Paul decided to write about Elliott, the many stories he learnt along the way, and we also discuss his pick for his favourit...

S5 Ep12: Lauren McCarthy

December 14, 2022 06:30 - 25 minutes

Our guest for our final episode of this season is Lauren McCarthy.  Lauren is the Executive Editor of Nylon, a publication that covers fashion, entertainment and music. Through her work, Lauren has the enviable opportunity of interviewing some of the most exciting artists working today - people like Phoebe Bridgers, Beabadoobee and Snail Mail.   One interesting thing Lauren has noticed through her work is the enduring influence on these younger musicians of Elliott Smith. So, for this fina...

S5 Ep11: Julia Shapiro

November 30, 2022 06:30 - 17 minutes

Our guest today is Julia Shapiro. Julia is a musician who is perhaps best known as the lead singer and guitarist in the band Chastity Belt, which formed in Washington state in 2010. Chastity Belt have released four studio albums, including, most recently, 2019's self-titled record. Julia's work isn't just limited to that band, though, she's also part of the group Childbirth and has released solo records too.  A key theme throughout her work, Julia says, is her Elliott Smith influence, whic...

S5 Ep10: Elise Okusami (Oceanator)

October 26, 2022 11:45 - 22 minutes

Our guest today is Elise Okusami. Elise is a New York City based guitarist and vocalists who performs under the name Oceanator. As Oceanator, Elise has released three albums so far, including, most recently Nothing’s Ever Fine, which came out earlier on this year. Elise has covered a couple of Elliott Smith songs during her career, including and the Biggest Lie, which we’re discussing today in this episode. As you might be able to guess from that, Elise is a big Elliott Smith fan. In fact ...

S5 Ep9: Aaron Powell (Fog Lake)

October 12, 2022 05:30 - 30 minutes

Joining us for episode nine is musician Aaron Powell.  Aaron is based in Newfoundland, Canada and plays under the name Fog Lake. He’s been recording music for the last 10 years or so and his work has been referred to - quite interestingly - as ‘harrowing nostalgia’. Aaron’s released several albums to date, including 2021's Tragedy Reel, which reflects on his upbringing in rural Canada.  Aaron is a self-confessed major Elliott Smith fan. He’s got a lot of Elliott knowledge and thoughts on h...

S5 Ep8: Nilüfer Yanya

September 28, 2022 05:30 - 23 minutes

Our guest for episode eight of season five is Nilüfer Yanya.  Nilüfer is a musician from London. Nilüfer's first ever release came back in 2016 when she put out her debut EP Small Crimes/Keep on Calling and, since then, she's released two full-length albums: 2019's Miss Universe, which was then followed up by Painless earlier on this year - a record that's well worth checking out if you haven't heard it already.  We recorded this chat with Nilufer over the summer. In it, we talk through he...

S5 Ep7: Joshua Burnside

September 14, 2022 05:30 - 28 minutes

Joining us today is the musician Joshua Burnside.  Joshua is a singer-songwriter based in Belfast, Northern Ireland. He’s released five albums across his career, with his first record, Ephrata, winning the Northern Ireland music prize in 2017.  Joshua is known for incorporating a wide range of influences into his work, from Colombian and Indonesian music, right the way through to one Elliott Smith. And while Elizabeth was over in Northern Ireland for work this summer, Joshua was kind enoug...

S5 Ep6: Momma

August 31, 2022 05:30 - 24 minutes

Joining us for episode six of this season are Etta Friedman and Allegra Weingarten from the band Momma. Etta and Allegra have been playing music together since they became close friends while at high school in Los Angeles, California. Since those early days, they've gone on to record three studio albums, including most recently, Household Name which came out earlier this year. 2022 has been a great year so far for Momma: that new album has been released to widespread acclaim, they’ve bee...

S5 Ep5: Lola Kirke

August 17, 2022 05:00 - 15 minutes

Our guest today is the multi-talented, Lola Kirke.  As an actor, Lola has starred in the TV show Mozart in the Jungle and the film Mistress America, as well as many others. And, as a musician she has released two studio albums - most recently Lady for Sale which came out on Third Man Records earlier on this year.  Her favourite song pick is a great selection from Figure 8 and, in this interview, she delves a bit deeper into this track, and tells us how her how she was introduced to Elliott...

S5 Ep4: Toledo

August 03, 2022 05:00 - 26 minutes

Our guests today are Dan Alvarez and Jordan Dunn-Pilz, who together make up the band Toledo.  The pair have been making music together since they were 11 years old, growing up in Newburyport in Massachusetts After parting ways for college, Dan and Jordan are now reunited and living in Brooklyn, New York, and are steadily building a big following, with their debut coming out in September this year.  For this episode, Dan and Jordan took a slightly different route, and instead of picking one...

S5 Ep3: Orono (Superorganism)

July 20, 2022 04:00 - 23 minutes

Our guest for episode three of season five is Orono from Superorganism. Superoganism are a band now based in London, though they started out more geographically dispersed. When the group formed, Orono would record her vocals separately from Maine, where she attended boarding school. After finding prominence with their debut single Something for Your M.I.N.D in 2017, Superorganism followed it up with their first album - a self-titled record - a year later. The group released their second ...

S5 Ep2: Carmen Perry (Remember Sports)

July 06, 2022 04:00 - 23 minutes

Our second guest of this season is Carmen Perry from the band Remember Sports.  Remember Sports formed back in 2012, when Carmen and her bandmates were studying at college/university. Since then, they've released five albums, most recently Like a Stone, which came out last year.  It was as a teenager that Carmen became an Elliott Smith fan. She discovered his music when she was searching indie artists on download sites and immediately connected with it. In this episode, we discuss her Ell...

S5 Ep1: Ruth Radelet

June 22, 2022 05:30 - 27 minutes

Our guest for the opening episode of season 5 of My Favourite Elliott Smith Song is Ruth Radelet. Ruth is a musician based in Portland, Oregon, who has recently started a solo career, after a long and successful stint with the band, Chromatics, a group she joined back in 2006. One of her first releases as a solo artist was, in fact, a cover of Twilight by Elliott Smith, which she recorded for the 30th anniversary celebration of the record label, Kill Rock Stars. In this interview we talk...

S4 Ep12: Craig Thomas

November 18, 2021 13:15 - 31 minutes

We're very happy to welcome Craig Thomas onto the podcast for the final episode of this season. Craig is a writer and producer perhaps best known as the co-creator of the comedy, How I Met Your Mother, but he's written lots of other things as well, including for David Letterman, American Dad and Oliver Beene. It was as a young writer living in New York City that Craig became a big Elliott Smith fan. And, in this interview, he shares a great story of hearing his song pick live during that...

S4 Ep11: Hrishikesh Hirway

November 04, 2021 13:15 - 25 minutes

Our guest today is the musician and podcaster, Hrishikesh Hirway. Hrishikesh is the creator of the excellent Song Exploder podcast - where musicians dissect their songs and discuss how they were made - which has recently been made into a TV show by Netflix. He's also involved in other popular podcasts including West Wing Weekly, Home Cooking and Partners. But music is Hrishikesh's first love and he has been working as a musician on and off for the last 20 years or so. From 2002 to 2011, h...

11: Hrishikesh Hirway

November 04, 2021 13:15 - 26 minutes

Our guest today is the musician and podcaster, Hrishikesh Hirway. Hrishikesh is the creator of the excellent Song Exploder podcast - where musicians dissect their songs and discuss how they were made - which has recently been made into a TV show by Netflix. He's also involved in other popular podcasts including West Wing Weekly, Home Cooking and Partners. But music is Hrishikesh's first love and he has been working as a musician on and off for the last 20 years or so. From 2002 to 2011, h...

10: Dorien Garry

October 21, 2021 12:00 - 27 minutes

Today, we're joined by Elliott Smith's close friend and publicist, Dorien Garry. Although they had already known each other for a little while, the two cemented their friendship when Elliott moved to New York City in the late '90s and stayed for a while at Dorien's apartment. At this time, Dorien was also working at Girlie Action, the PR agency that represented Elliott. So, in this interview Dorien talks about their friendship, how it developed over the years and how another one of their...

S4 Ep10: Dorien Garry

October 21, 2021 12:00 - 26 minutes

Today, we're joined by Elliott Smith's close friend and publicist, Dorien Garry. Although they had already known each other for a little while, the two cemented their friendship when Elliott moved to New York City in the late '90s and stayed for a while at Dorien's apartment. At this time, Dorien was also working at Girlie Action, the PR agency that represented Elliott. So, in this interview Dorien talks about their friendship, how it developed over the years and how another one of their...

S4 Ep9: mehro

October 07, 2021 12:30 - 18 minutes

Joining us today is the musician, mehro. mehro is based in Los Angeles and has spent the 18 months or so of the pandemic amassing a huge following online. He hadn't released a song before February 2020 and has since put out a handful of singles as well as a debut album, SKY ON FIRE, which came out earlier on this year. He came to Elliott Smith's music relatively recently too, having been introduced to him by an engineer he was working with. He has since dived deep into his back catalogue...

9: mehro

October 07, 2021 12:30 - 20 minutes

Joining us today is the musician, mehro. mehro is based in Los Angeles and has spent the 18 months or so of the pandemic amassing a huge following online. He hadn't released a song before February 2020 and has since put out a handful of singles as well as a debut album, SKY ON FIRE, which came out earlier on this year. He came to Elliott Smith's music relatively recently too, having been introduced to him by an engineer he was working with. He has since dived deep into his back catalogue...

8: Johanna Samuels

September 23, 2021 15:49 - 25 minutes

Joining us today is musician Johanna Samuels. Johanna is a singer/songwriter based in Los Angeles, who put her first full-length album, Excelsior, out earlier this year. She's also a huge Elliott Smith fan and recently appeared singing Elliott Smith's Single File on a Kill Rock Stars cover record. In this interview, she discusses that tribute show, connecting with a good friend of Elliotts and of course we discuss her favourite song pick, which is one we’ve never spoken about before. E...

S4 Ep8: Johanna Samuels

September 23, 2021 15:49 - 23 minutes

Joining us today is musician Johanna Samuels. Johanna is a singer/songwriter based in Los Angeles, who put her first full-length album, Excelsior, out earlier this year. She's also a huge Elliott Smith fan and recently appeared singing Elliott Smith's Single File on a Kill Rock Stars cover record. In this interview, she discusses that tribute show, connecting with a good friend of Elliotts and of course we discuss her favourite song pick, which is one we’ve never spoken about before. E...

S4 Ep7: Steven Page

September 09, 2021 12:30 - 23 minutes

Our guest for this one is Steven Page. Steven is a musician, who is perhaps best known as the lead singer and a guitarist in the band Barenaked Ladies. He was one of the founding members of the group and was with them for just over 20 years until 2009, when he left to pursue other projects. Steven is now a solo artist and is soon heading out on a solo tour of North America.  He’s a big Elliott Smith fan too, of course, and joined us for this interview to talk about his song pick, his love ...

7: Steven Page

September 09, 2021 12:30 - 25 minutes

Our guest for this one is Steven Page. Steven is a musician, who is perhaps best known as the lead singer and a guitarist in the band Barenaked Ladies. He was one of the founding members of the group and was with them for just over 20 years until 2009, when he left to pursue other projects. Steven is now a solo artist and is soon heading out on a solo tour of North America.  He’s a big Elliott Smith fan too, of course, and joined us for this interview to talk about his song pick, his love ...

S4 Ep6: Matthew Caws (Nada Surf)

August 26, 2021 13:38 - 26 minutes

Our guest today is the musician Matthew Caws.  Matthew is the lead singer and guitarist in the band Nada Surf, a band he formed in New York City in the early ‘90s with his friend, Daniel Lorca. In total, Nada Surf have put out nine studio albums, and their most recent, Never Not Together, came out in 2020. Nada Surf also had the pleasure of touring with Elliott Smith and the band Quasi in 1998, and in this interview we discuss Matthew’s memories of that tour, why he decided to turn down th...

6: Matthew Caws (Nada Surf)

August 26, 2021 13:38 - 27 minutes

Our guest today is the musician Matthew Caws.  Matthew is the lead singer and guitarist in the band Nada Surf, a band he formed in New York City in the early ‘90s with his friend, Daniel Lorca. In total, Nada Surf have put out nine studio albums, and their most recent, Never Not Together, came out in 2020. Nada Surf also had the pleasure of touring with Elliott Smith and the band Quasi in 1998, and in this interview we discuss Matthew’s memories of that tour, why he decided to turn down th...

S4 Ep5: Phil Elverum

August 12, 2021 15:21 - 23 minutes

Today, we're welcoming Phil Elverum onto the podcast. Phil has been releasing music for over 20 years now. First, through his band The Microphones and then under the name Mount Eerie - a project he started in 2003 and is still running today. Over the course of his career so far, Phil has put out more than 40 albums.  Phil discovered Elliott Smith’s music in the mid-'90s and even saw him play live a couple of times. He has lots of interesting perspectives to share - so hopefully you enjoy t...

5: Phil Elverum

August 12, 2021 15:21 - 24 minutes

Today, we're welcoming Phil Elverum onto the podcast. Phil has been releasing music for over 20 years now. First, through his band The Microphones and then under the name Mount Eerie - a project he started in 2003 and is still running today. Over the course of his career so far, Phil has put out more than 40 albums.  Phil discovered Elliott Smith’s music in the mid-'90s and even saw him play live a couple of times. He has lots of interesting perspectives to share - so hopefully you enjoy t...

4: Maggie Smith

July 29, 2021 13:00 - 22 minutes

Our guest today is the writer, Maggie Smith. Maggie is a poet and author based in Columbus, Ohio. She has published several collections of her poetry, including most recently Goldenrod, which came out in July 2021. After seeing her tweeting about Elliott Smith, I got in touch with Maggie to invite her on the podcast. We had a lovely chat about Elliott's music, her favourite song pick and why it might be a good choice to walk down the aisle to. Hope you enjoy listening to this episode! E...

S4 Ep4: Maggie Smith

July 29, 2021 13:00 - 20 minutes

Our guest today is the writer, Maggie Smith. Maggie is a poet and author based in Columbus, Ohio. She has published several collections of her poetry, including most recently Goldenrod, which came out in July 2021. After seeing her tweeting about Elliott Smith, I got in touch with Maggie to invite her on the podcast. We had a lovely chat about Elliott's music, her favourite song pick and why it might be a good choice to walk down the aisle to. Hope you enjoy listening to this episode! E...

S4 Ep3: Ed Harcourt

July 15, 2021 13:00 - 23 minutes

Our guest today is the musician Ed Harcourt.  Ed has released six studio albums - one of which was nominated for the mercury music prize - and has written songs for lots of other artists too, including the likes of Marianne Faithful, Paloma Faith and Sophie Ellis Bextor.  Ed also counts himself as a big Elliott Smith fan. And in this episode, he talks to Elizabeth Withstandley about his favourite song pick, Elliott Smith’s enduring influence on songwriters and we talk about an Elliott cove...

3: Ed Harcourt

July 15, 2021 13:00 - 25 minutes

Our guest today is the musician Ed Harcourt.  Ed has released six studio albums - one of which was nominated for the mercury music prize - and has written songs for lots of other artists too, including the likes of Marianne Faithful, Paloma Faith and Sophie Ellis Bextor.  Ed also counts himself as a big Elliott Smith fan. And in this episode, he talks to Elizabeth Withstandley about his favourite song pick, Elliott Smith’s enduring influence on songwriters and we talk about an Elliott cove...

S4 Ep2: Rebecca Gates

July 01, 2021 12:15 - 23 minutes

Our guest today is the musician Rebecca Gates. Rebecca is based in Portland, Oregon and was one half of The Spinanes before she left to release music as a solo artist. The Spinanes were a firm fixture on the Portland music scene and it was there that she met Elliott Smith for the first time and established a friendship that would lead to her recording backing vocals on the song St Ides Heaven, which appears on his self-titled album. That makes Rebecca - as far as I understand - one of on...

2: Rebecca Gates

July 01, 2021 12:15 - 24 minutes

Our guest today is the musician Rebecca Gates. Rebecca is based in Portland, Oregon and was one half of The Spinanes before she left to release music as a solo artist. The Spinanes were a firm fixture on the Portland music scene and it was there that she met Elliott Smith for the first time and established a friendship that would lead to her recording backing vocals on the song St Ides Heaven, which appears on his self-titled album. That makes Rebecca - as far as I understand - one of on...

1: Mike Doughty (Soul Coughing)

June 17, 2021 13:45 - 24 minutes

Mike Doughty is a musician and the founder of the band Soul Coughing. Mike set up the experimental group in 1992 and they released three albums before going their separate ways in 2000. Mike has since gone onto pursue several solo projects. Already an established fan, he met Elliott Smith during the 1990s and Elliott also recorded some vocal tracks for Mike during that period. He discusses those encounters, as well as his favourite song with Elizabeth Withstandley in this interview. Extr...

S4 Ep1: Mike Doughty (Soul Coughing)

June 17, 2021 13:45 - 22 minutes

Mike Doughty is a musician and the founder of the band Soul Coughing. Mike set up the experimental group in 1992 and they released three albums before going their separate ways in 2000. Mike has since gone onto pursue several solo projects. Already an established fan, he met Elliott Smith during the 1990s and Elliott also recorded some vocal tracks for Mike during that period. He discusses those encounters, as well as his favourite song with Elizabeth Withstandley in this interview. Extr...

14: Aaron Espinoza (Earlimart)

October 29, 2020 11:00 - 38 minutes

We're delighted that musician Aaron Espinoza joins us to round off our third season. Aaron is a producer, who owns his own studio in Los Angeles called The Ship. He's also in the band Earlimart and it was when he was starting out with that group in the early 2000s, that he became friends with Elliott Smith. Aaron, Elliott, the members of Grandaddy, Lou Barlow and many others were all part of the same vibrant LA music scene back then. And Aaron has lots of great stories from that time tha...

S3 Ep14: Aaron Espinoza (Earlimart)

October 29, 2020 11:00 - 36 minutes

We're delighted that musician Aaron Espinoza joins us to round off our third season. Aaron is a producer, who owns his own studio in Los Angeles called The Ship. He's also in the band Earlimart and it was when he was starting out with that group in the early 2000s, that he became friends with Elliott Smith. Aaron, Elliott, the members of Grandaddy, Lou Barlow and many others were all part of the same vibrant LA music scene back then. And Aaron has lots of great stories from that time tha...

13: Charlene Kaye

October 15, 2020 13:00 - 18 minutes

Musician Charlene Kaye joins us for our penultimate episode of season three. Charlene is a solo artist, who goes by the name KAYE. She's preparing to release her new album, Conscious Control, which comes out in November 2020. You may also know Charlene as the lead vocalist of the band San Fermin, which she was part of for five years. She's a big Elliott Smith fan too. And in this episode, we discuss how his music takes her back to a certain place in time, his impact on her and the wider ...

S3 Ep13: Charlene Kaye

October 15, 2020 13:00 - 17 minutes

Musician Charlene Kaye joins us for our penultimate episode of season three. Charlene is a solo artist, who goes by the name KAYE. She's preparing to release her new album, Conscious Control, which comes out in November 2020. You may also know Charlene as the lead vocalist of the band San Fermin, which she was part of for five years. She's a big Elliott Smith fan too. And in this episode, we discuss how his music takes her back to a certain place in time, his impact on her and the wider ...

12: Catherynne M. Valente

October 01, 2020 12:20 - 27 minutes

Catherynne M. Valente - or Cat - is a writer of fantasy and science fiction books. Her work includes the novels Palimpsest and Space Opera, and the Fairyland and Orphan's Tales series of books. Cat heard Elliott Smith for the first time in Miss Misery and immediately set about saving the money she needed to buy the film's soundtrack. In this interview we talk about how her love of Elliott has grown since, how it has helped her through some difficult times and, of course, her pick for her f...

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