We Had About as Busy an Off-Season as the Tigers

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Episode Transcript:

Alex Freeman: This is the Michigan and Trumbull podcast with your hosts Alex S. Freeman and Luke Jaconis.

Hello and welcome to season four of the Michigan and Trumble podcast. New, intro sound for you there. we're back on video if you're joining us over here on the YouTube. but as always, like a bad penny, haven't been able to get rid of him. Joined, by Luke Jaconis. I'm Alex Freeman. welcome to the show. If you're just joining us for the first time, Luke, it's been a minute since, we've dropped an episode. How you been?

Luke Jaconis: I've been very well. Very well. Four, seasons of this show, entering the fourth season. Who would have thunk it? We've already done better than the Friends spin off Joey, so that's at least we've got that going for us.

Alex Freeman: That's something.

Luke Jaconis: Life, has been good. Life has been great. Very busy these, last couple of weeks, last couple of months. I would say that I missed talking Tigers baseball, but I'm just going to say up front, I'm going to come in very pessimistic off the bat. I didn't miss it at all because A, they didn't do anything this offseason, which I know we're going to get to in a little bit. And B, and this is probably the wrong way to look at it. I still got a sour taste in my mouth from 2022. I'm not over it yet. I know we kind of did our grievances episode in November, remember, where we tried to exercise all of our demons, but I'm just a little bit upset about it. And then you take into consideration the moves or lack thereof going into this off season. There's not a ton to be happy to be happy about right now if you're a Detroit Tigers fan, in my opinion. But, as I texted you, Alex, this season I'm going to try to practice, patience. I m am going to try and practice restraint. And I look forward to that lasting me about, I don't know, another four or five minutes into this episode and then I intend to blow a gasket like anger from inside out.

Alex Freeman: Yeah, I think that we're going to be set up, nicely for that. So a few housekeeping things at the top here which I think will keep you from blowing a gasket. we are mixing up the structure of the show a little bit, as we enter season four. So we're planning to drop episodes every two weeks that seems to, from the past three years be the rhythm that is sustainable for us through the season. without coming to you and just kind of repeating everything we've said in the previous episode, we're going to be focusing more a little bit on Big Picture than Day to Day of the Team. I think that there's a lot of great ways in which you can follow Day To Day, Tigers news, that type of minutiae. We're going to kind of take the broader look, at kind of what trends are we seeing in the team. what is the vibe check of the fan base, as well as including some more, kind of stats and trivia and that kind of stuff into the show as well. as we go through that, one thing you may or may not notice, hopefully you don't actually notice if you just are a regular subscriber of the show on a podcast app. We have migrated the home of the show to Substack. you can find us at Michiganandtrumbull substac.com. there you can subscribe to the show. we haven't yet mixed in any long form blogging or anything. but if you do go over to the show and you subscribe, you'll, get an email every time a new episode drops so you don't miss one. And then throughout the season we'll be experimenting with substance in ways in which we can interact with all of you, in those spots. So do go over to Michigan and Trumble, substac.com and subscribe. But if you are an audio listener to the show, hopefully you notice nothing different. because that means that I did everything right on the back end to migrate the show over to substack. yeah. Luke, any other housekeeping that I've forgotten here?

Luke Jaconis: no. that was great. For real great stuff. Lots of fun changes happening. All jokes and bits aside, the fact that we've made it four seasons and a that I guess we haven't really got into the fourth season. So we don't know if people are going to listen or watch the show. But the fact that we haven't been at least canceled on Twitter, the fact you and I haven't strangled each other yet, albeit even virtually or via, we've nearly outlasted Twitter itself, I know that's saying something. That's saying something. So I am very excited to embark on a fourth season. And although I truly wasn't that jazz to talk Tigers baseball these last couple of months, the fact that we're getting close to spring training, the World Baseball Classic is coming around. It's impossible for me not to get a little excited, a little jittery, even though I know my team is going to absolutely, I think, rip my heart out once again. This season, and I can't wait to do it. I do have one last piece of information to announce before we get into the show. I did legally change my name, this offseason, and I'm now going to display that on my zoom, link below.

Alex Freeman: Hey. luke as the tigers. Sorry, Luke. I apologize for using, your old name there. I'm the Tigers third baseman. somebody has it's me. Somebody's got to be the Tigers third baseman. which I think, Luke, that is a beautiful transition to bring us into the first new, official segment of the show, which is a Luke rant. This is wonderful. Really great.

Luke Jaconis: It's great. I got theme music and everything. After four after three seasons editing the fourth season, I got I got theme music. I don't want to listen to it for a second.

Alex Freeman: Yeah. My big mouth, more or less a live reaction from Luke here.

Luke Jaconis: I like it. I like it. I feel like, if for those, you are WWE fans, just like the theme music, like a jobber that's about to come out and just get his absolute teeth kicked in in a matter of 10 seconds by, like, the guy, the big bad baddie that's trying to get over. That's the job or theme song perfect. And that's what exactly I am a jobber. Look, I like the rant. Ranting is fun. It also makes it cleanses the soul. this really, I don't think is going to be a rant. It might snowball into one. I'm just frustrated, folks. Am I the only one who's not frustrated out there with this team? What they have done, or like I said, lack thereof, that they've done going into this season, going off, 2022. We all know that it was a huge letdown. Injuries underperforming, historically one of the worst offenses, if not the worst offense, in the modern era of baseball. Just absolutely atrocious. They fire Aloe Vila. We throw the parade. We're all stoked. We bring in this new guy, Scott Harris. He's saying all the right things. kind of wrapping up the 2022 season, going into the 23 off season. And while we didn't expect him to go out there and make those big contracts and big signings like we all may have liked, I think we at least expected in some capacity, some moves to be made. And while, yes, they did bring back, Matthew Boyd, and they did sign Michael Lorenzen, they did make the trade. Send Joe Jimenez to Atlanta, and we will get later into the one big trade that actually did enjoy the Tigers and the Phillies made. Take all that out of the equation. They really didn't do anything. And let's not try to polish a turd and tell me it's a three dollar bill. That's not even a saying. But I just made it up. let's not pretend and be naive to the fact that they actually made a lot of insanely impressive or great moves. And I've heard the people on Twitter and I've read the blogs and all that stuff. We have to give Scott Harris a fair shake. He's inheriting Alavila's mess. Chris Ilochi is still the owner of this team. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, I do think there is some truth to that. I said this towards the tail end when Scott Harris got hired. The fans, at least in my opinion, aren't going to be patient, and I don't think they need to be patient. They've been patient for eight years now, and they've had absolutely nothing to show for it. They haven't played playoff baseball since 2014. They haven't had a winning season of 500 or better since 2016. Came pretty close in 2021. But then we obviously saw a huge step back in 2022. So I just am annoyed. I'm just frustrated. I'm trying to be positive, but there's just no need or reason for me or I think, other fans to be positive. I do think Scott Harris is the guy. I am not by any means saying, let's sell Scott Harris down the river by any means shape or form. Am I saying that? But after all the hype, I guess, or kind of excitement that was there, even minimally, going from 2022 to 2023, it just feels like it was kind of a dud. I have a theory, and I'm going to kick it back to you in a second here, Alex. There is one thing that will save this team this offseason, or, this upcoming season, I should say. And I'll get to that in a second, but I guess, Alex, I'll kick it to you again. Like I said, not much of a rant, just kind of an airing of grievances. we didn't do a festivist episode this year, so I had to kind of make up for lost time, I guess. What are you feeling heading into the season? Tiger's moves? Not so many moves. Scott Harris's approach. Where are you at going into the season? Like I text you today, I've set my expectations so low that I think I have no choice but to be pleasantly surprised. But make no mistake about it, as much as I goof around, I joke, I rant, I bet. I think this is going to be an abysmal season for the Tigers. I don't think it's going to be good unless one thing happens. And like I said, I'll get to that in a second. But in the meantime, I'll kick it back to you.

Alex Freeman: Yeah, I guess this is as good a time as I need to tell folks. we will be at Comerica Park, for the final game of the regular season, which we can pretty safely call Miguel Cabrera's last regular season home game. As a Tiger, I think my feelings on the season are summed up in that I have to remind myself to add the regular season caveat, as opposed to, just kind of naturally saying his last home game as a Tiger will, be the final game of the season. And, I was telling some other guys about how we've got the tickets and it's going to be a good time, and they say, well, what about the playoffs? And I said, well, honestly, the best worst case scenario is that they are somehow competing for a playoff spot that day, which then means the question facing the Tigers is, how much do you play Miguel Cabrera on that day if they are fighting for a playoff spot? Because obviously you have to play him that day. but if they're competing for a playoff spot, it means Miguel Cabrera is not the main contributor on your roster. which I don't foresee. I still foresee Miguel Cabrera being one of the top contributors on this roster, and that should not be happening at this point in his career.

Luke Jaconis: Yeah, I mean, first of all, very excited to go to comerica, in October. give Miguel Cabrera a proper and well deserved sendoff. Make no mistake about it, that will not only be his final regular season game, that will be his final game. This team isn't going to the playoffs. There's a very good chance, as history will repeat itself in the last two seasons, they will be eliminated by the end of the month. There's a good chance they might be eliminated by Easter, which would really be a pretty incredible feat considering I'm pretty sure the season doesn't even start until after Easter. I might be wrong on that, but someone can fact check me later. yeah, it's the same old song and dance that 40 year old Miguel Cabrera, almost 40. Miguel Cabrera, at this point, should not be a main contributor to your lineup. I'm so excited to see Mickey. I'm always excited to see M Mickey. The sentimental part of me is sad that he is going, but knows that it's time, it's time to hang it up. But I want to give him the send off he has rightfully earned over his illustrious career as a future first ballot hall of Famer. Mickey deserves, hopefully, every state, and he goes to a packed house and a standing ovation for, his final game when he's traveling across the country this, next season. I share your thoughts with that as well. I, think there is little chance at all that this team is I like your idea that maybe that final game in October, it's that final game pushed to get in, but I just don't see that happening at all. I think hell is a better chance of freezing over before that happens. the one thing I want to talk about that I kind of alluded to a moment ago was that, the only saving grace for me this season, because I think going into it, the rotation is worse than last year. It's intriguing, but I don't think it's as good as I would feel much more confident of casey Myers and obviously Terric Scuba were in the rotation. That's kind of a given. excited Spencer Turnbull back, but you got to keep in mind he's coming off Tommy John, so you don't really know how that's going to work. We only had Erod for 14 or 15 starts last year. I think this is a year where Matt Manning really puts it together, so that's exciting. Ah, and then Lorenzen and Matthew Boyd, the nicest guy on earth. They're essentially, again, kind of those innings leaders that we were hoping to avoid, but we knew we would have to get them. Just given the pitching injuries going into the season, take the starting pitching and we'll get to the bullpen a little bit later as well. Let's look at the offense because that's obviously and I think everyone's biggest question going. They didn't sign, really a single position player at this point in time heading into the season. I know I made the joke with my name. They really don't have a true starting third baseman going into spring training. There are a lot of question marks with this team, that I think still have not been answered. And obviously we're going to get those answers in spring training. But let's take all those questions. We'll get to all that in a little bit. The one thing, and it's such a cop out to say that can save this team and maybe make this season a pleasant surprise, similarly to 2021 is the bounce back season, because historically, last year, some of these guys on offense were terrible and some of these guys were injured. We didn't have a full season of Austin Meadows. We had a sophomore slump for Akiel BA. Du. Jonathan Scope was absolutely atrocious. Spencer Torkelson, an absolutely atrocious rookie campaign, good on defense. Offense was abysmal. And this is a big if. If all of those guys can even play to half their capacity that we know they're capable of, then maybe this season is somewhat of a pleasant surprise. Again, kind of like the 2021. hopefully Riley Green doesn't progress.

Alex Freeman: I'm sorry, regress sake.

Luke Jaconis: Not regress.

Alex Freeman: That's it.

Luke Jaconis: We want one year and that's it. no, hopefully he doesn't regress. Hobby is going to be Hobby at this point. I know he had a pretty good month of September, so it made his overall line look not as bad, but I believe, I'm not mistaken, led all position players last year in errors on defense, not good at all. Javier, not good at all. so we know what he's going to do. Miggy is going to be Miggy. I am excited to see it seems like it's, pointing in all directions that Eric Haas is going to win the starting catching job out of camp. So I am excited to see what Haasi can do because I voted him my Tigers MVP of last year because I thought he was kind, of the most consistent hitter, I guess, for what it's worth, throughout that 2022 season. So the bounce back. Live by it, die by it. If some of these guys bounce back, great, and I think some of them truly will, there's no way Jonathan Scope will be as bad as last year. He physically can't be. If Austin Meadows is healthy, I fully expect him to see him kind of return to the Austin Meadows we thought he was going to be when he came over from that Tampa trade last spring training. So it's just a matter of time, it's a matter of waiting. It is a little bit of patience, which I don't have much of at this point, but, we'll see what happens. If they are similar to last year, god help us all. It's going to be brutal.

Alex Freeman: I think that's a really strong, transition there, Luke, into, talking about, the offseason and where this team is right now. I think let's stay in the roster conversation, because, what will mix into that and I guess there's not a big discussion. We're changing the dimensions at Comerica Park. it will be 412 to center, as opposed to 420, which theoretically smoke. It means the offense should be better at home because we're going to play our games, play half our games in a stadium that is no longer as picture friendly. 412 is still a long way. but you can't smoke it's. Still a big.

Luke Jaconis: Co host ever.

Alex Freeman: so funny. you got to be stuck with the hedges out there, I guess.

Luke Jaconis: This is what dreams are made of. And also the lights. We're getting new lights. Honestly, that was the biggest news of this offseason. They're moving in the fences slightly and they're changing the lights. That's when you know your team is just in an utter state of disrepair. When those are the big things that people are excited egg on our face.

Alex Freeman: When they win 105 games because of these changes.

Luke Jaconis: Yeah, the best thing about, the moving in the fences was, I think, when they announced it on Instagram, mickey commented. He said, now I want to play more years. some other things before we kind of look at the roster. this was announced, I think, last week or the week before. We've got some changes in the booth. Bye bye, Jack Morris. Hello, Craig Monroe, and also welcome Cameron Maven and Todd Jones to the fold.

Alex Freeman: Yeah, I'm excited about having CMO in the booth on a regular basis. was always excited when he was agreed, in the booth. especially the times that he sits in. I think everybody knows that he's great at it. I also loved him when he was on the radio broadcast. yeah, just excited for more simo.

Luke Jaconis: I know people like dog on Matt Shepherd. We've always kind of stuck up for Chef a little bit. I think he's kind of also look at what he's had to commentate on these last number of seasons. But also, I think Jack Morris didn't give him much to work with. Kirk Gibson is always kind of in and out of there on a limited basis. So if they could establish a good relationship between Freckman Rowe and Matt Shepard, I am okay with that. I think that could be really fun. Cameron Maven, coming in is kind of cool. Todd Jones, I like that they're bringing in the more former Tigers, and it's kind of crazy to say, but Tigers players of our era, so I know Cameron Maven had a couple of different stints with the Tigers. Todd Jones, obviously was big in the six run, but, it's cool. It's kind of cool. And also, it makes me feel hate to say it a little old being like, I remember watching that guy play. Now he's talking about the good old days and, my mind how time flies so, yeah, I'm great and sing jack Morris. Lee, take care of Jack.

Alex Freeman: I could care less yeah, I hit the road Jack don't you come back no more, no more, no.

Luke Jaconis: More, no more, no more love it. this is what I have for the roster. I just took a couple of quick notes here.

Alex Freeman: Is it just of a dumpster fire?

Luke Jaconis: ah, I'm not too good with the words, but I'm trying my best here. yeah, it's pretty great. okay, so kind of just projections, I think, where we're heading into the season. So starting catcher, I think, out of camp, we're looking at Eric Hoss, starting first baseman. Out of camp, spencer Torkelson, second baseman. Jonathan Scope, shortstop. Javier Baez, third baseman. I put who the hell knows? I mean, according to my name on Zoom, I am the Tigers third baseman, but that's how that is.

Luke Jaconis: Riley Green is our starting center fielder. Akilba Dewan. Left, Austin Meadows and right DH is Miguel Cabrera. So that's where we're at with that. Any objections? Anything you think? What are your thoughts?

Alex Freeman: I'm, just throwing in that the official depth chart on MLB.com shows Ryan Kriler as the I saw that the.

Luke Jaconis: People, I guess, we're assuming are going for that are, Ryan Creedler, and then Nick Mayton. So he came over in the, Phillies trade. So there's that. Also, real quick, I guess we kind of talked to me. I don't know if we talked about this last time. It's been an episode, but a lot of guys gone from this team that have been kind of mainstays on the roster for these last four or five years. Victor Reyes, gone. Willie Castro, gone. Harold castro gone. And, then obviously, I think the big one who I think was on the bubble the most, jamer candelario gone and now is a Washington National. So just kind of throwing that out there, saying goodbye to those guys. They've been around a while. Das. Cameron derek Hill was gone last season. So a lot of these guys that were kind of that all of you, like, are they going to be mainstays? They're all gone. So Willy's with the Twins, I think carol Castro's with the Rockies, victor Reyes when it stays with the White Sox. the boys have flown the coop, so to speak. Or actually they didn't fly away, they were told to leave.

Alex Freeman: Yeah, no, I mean, I think that, those changes are interesting because when they happened, it was like, okay, this is maybe the start of some clearing house. We're going to go make some moves in this offseason. We're going to go reassemble a roster. We're going to mix it with some of the kind of up and coming guys that we are sort of excited about as we go through that. all of those things. And yet that didn't really happen in the off season. Ah, I would say as of yet, but pitchers and catchers are reporting in, what, like two weeks?

Luke Jaconis: less than that at this point. next week, I'm pretty sure.

Alex Freeman: Obviously, those moves aren't going to happen. I don't know what that means.

Luke Jaconis: For well, there's just so many moves that felt like it could have been made, even filler bubble moves. But I guess you have to think Scott Harris is taking the approach of let's see what we've got, rather than bring in someone we don't really anticipate being around for the long haul. So that's probably there looking at the bench. Jake Rogers?

Alex Freeman: Matt.

Luke Jaconis: Vierling. Carrie Carpenter? Tyler Nevin. And then I also put, Ryan Fryler down there as well. two guys to keep an eye on for this upcoming season. offensively, I don't think they're going to make the teams out of camp. I could be wrong. One is Justin Henry, Malloy, we got him from the tray with Jo Jimenez of the Braves. And then the other is Donny Sands, Donnie Sands, and he was a catcher that came, in the Phillies trade as well. so I thought I saw some rumors. Maybe Donnie Sands wins the backup job because Jake Rogers might need some real game time coming off missing all of last year. But only time will tell at that. And from what I can tell, Justin Harry Milloy, pretty good eye batting eye from the basic research, which I've done, and pretty quick, from my understanding, he's a third base left fielder. So, it could be interesting because one, the Tiger is third baseman, obviously, that jobs up for grabs. And two, the assumed starting left fielder heading into opening day is a Kilba Du, and if he continues to struggle like he did last year, maybe Malloy comes in and takes his spot probably sometime a few months into the season, if it were to happen.

Alex Freeman: Yeah, I agree completely. let's kind of talk about the outfield there because obviously Eric Haas factors into that calculation as well. has played some left field. I think when his BAT's been working, he's been a fine outfielder and, a solid bat to have in the lineup, which then obviously layers into the catching equation of what you do at the catching position, which I do think it is. I think it'll be Jake Rogers coming out of camp.

Luke Jaconis: Yeah. You think Jake Rogers is going to win the starting job out of camp?

Alex Freeman: I do. I think so. I feel that's cool, excited about that.

Luke Jaconis: do you feel God on this chilies tonight as well?

Alex Freeman: I do. And, very shortly, I will no longer be allowed to eat at a chili's. my worst nightmare, I have been stealing drinks from other people.

Luke Jaconis: That is a thought that keeps me up at night and I wake up in a cold sweat. I respectfully disagree. I don't think Jake is going to win the starting job out of camp. I do think if Eric HOS, struggles and if Jake Rogers I think Jake Rogers is fighting to get a spot out of camp, obviously. I think just based off his history coming off the injury, I think he has a lot to prove going into this camp that he is still he's really kind of like the only one of the last few guys that I can think of on top of my head that's kind of around from those of era trades. Like, this guy might be something, but that I can think of that's kind of a main name floating around this team. so that's interesting. I, think Haas is going to win it out of camp. I think his days in left field are pretty numbered at this point. I, think they'll definitely roll with either a Kilba Du, Matt Veerling. they'll probably also want to start getting other guys out there from the miners that we haven't seen yet. Carpenter might play out there. that'll be kind of fascinating to track. The Tigers really haven't had that solid starting to catch. Like, this is our guy since probably, what, James McCann, Alexa Villa, something along those lines. So Pop Haas takes the ball and runs with it. I think he had a pretty solid little season last year, especially considering he got off to such a brutal start in the beginning of the year. he kind of really came into the last half, of the season, which was really good for him. So, pork at first base, I think that's a given. We're all waiting for the bounce back for torquelson. So. Same thing there. Same thing can be said for Jonathan Scope at second base.

Alex Freeman: Maybe.

Luke Jaconis: there's rumors they put Scope at third base and they did just recently sign, was it, Caesar Hernandez wasn't, at Baltimore played recently, if you're mistaken. signed him to, ah, a minor league deal invite spring training. I'm pretty sure something along those lines. so maybe he goes to second. that would be interesting. But that's an option too, I've heard. Maybe putting scoping at third. Hobby is the guy short. this could be potentially Hobby's last year because he could opt out after the season. I'm not mistaken.

Alex Freeman: Yeah, that's true. It'll be interesting to see. you talk about bounce back seasons, right? like surely Javi can't be as bad this year as he was last year. Surely that can't be the case.

Luke Jaconis: Defensively is what I want to make that more pointed towards. Because offensively, you look at his final numbers on the year they were whatever. it's the same thing I said last year that I'm saying this year. He is a piece of the puzzle. He is not the entire puzzle.

Alex Freeman: Right.

Luke Jaconis: He is a puzzle piece, but he is not the entire puzzle. So we're in the same boat as we are as last year. I hope to God. How can he be as bad last year defensively as he was this year as it was last year?

Alex Freeman: How many pieces of the puzzle do they have though?

Luke Jaconis: I don't even know if they have the top of the box for the puzzle that you can set it up on your table to look at to make sure you're doing it right. I don't even think they have that right now. They don't have a plan. There's no plan. It feels like at the moment, I'm not trying to knock Scott Harris. I know he's the new guy, we have to give him some leeway. But I don't even think we got the damn box to look at the puzzle to try to even assemble it.

Alex Freeman: Yeah, I think that you look at a team that has as many needs as the Detroit Tigers had, and especially after you clean house and right. And again, rightfully so. I think it was the right move to let those guys go. but to get to move on from Jamer Candelario and not bring in an upgrade at third base when you don't have to go far to have an upgrade to inconsistent Jamer Candelario, you just need a guy that you're like, okay, yeah. Over the past four seasons he's been consistent. This is what we get from him. that's an upgrade to Jamer Candelario and I don't think we even have that.

Luke Jaconis: Well, I think also too, if Scott is obviously trying to assess talent, and who knows, it could have been a financial thing. I thought I read something like the Tigers wanted to bring Jamar in for four and he signed with six or something. I could be wrong on that, but I thought there were some rumblings of that, so maybe that's a factor. but if Scott is assessing talent, like, we can only assume that he is. It is maybe a little bit fascinating now that we're removed from the situation and Jamer is gone and we are where we are with the third base, dilemma. That interesting. Did he not want to give Jamer one more year just to see or maybe he's seen enough at this point? Or maybe it was a financial thing. Or maybe he just knows, like, this guy is not our guy. Or maybe he sees something down the road with a crider or a Nick Mayton or moving scope to third and giving someone a shot at second. There's probably something we're not seeing. But, from the outsider and the fan perspective, it is a bit of a head scratch. Like, the fact that we are days away from pitchers and catchers reporting and we don't have a third basement. I mean, it's not a good look. You look at what the Astros are doing right now, locking up so many of their core guys, we're just, like, being like, can the guy who waters the infield in between innings, can he throw on a glove and maybe take some reps a third? Because that's where we're at right now.

Alex Freeman: Yeah, I think that, if you showed up at spring training with a myth, you might have a chance, you got a shot. You're probably going to get some playing time that day, at least. So I guess fans get down to, ah, Joker, Martin and, get stretched out because you're in it's about a.

Luke Jaconis: Three hour drive for me. Just got to go a little bit north. Three, three and a half hours. I might do that. Put on the cleats and see if I can hang with them.

Alex Freeman: No, Luke, I mentioned that, when we were talking before the episode that I have sort of left Twitter, as a user, you're on there a little bit more. You've always kind of been more active with the show's Twitter account. my sense and this could just be like my own feelings, because I'm not I have not been as engaged with the Tigers fan base during this offseason. my sense is that it's a continuation of kind of where the base felt at the end of last season, which is, like, almost who cares?

Luke Jaconis: It's a who cares? And it's a what's going on? Mentality. From what I can gauge. There are people, there's a lot of people, which I've been pleasantly surprised, who have gone the who cares route, because I think they're just fed up and done, to a certain extent, which I'm okay with that. I don't begrudge those people for thinking that you can't consistently, year after year, put s**t out onto the field and just m expect your fans to be like mindless sheep. And it's like, I'm excited for this. This is great. We're not dummies. We know what's going on here. We know what the situation is. Then you have another camp of fans like, well, you got to give Scott Harris's due. He's not Ala Villa. You can't blame him for Avila's mistakes. And then you've got a camp of people who are kind of thinking, it's not going to be as bad as we're all making it out to be. I ran a poll on Twitter, on our Twitter the other day, and I'm trying to think of how many, I just said, where are we at heading into spring training wins wise? What do you think is the projection? Let me see what the numbers were here. Okay, so, I said, how many games will the Tigers win in 2023? 39 votes. People that voted on this, first place, a 49% vote is 70 to 80. And from what I can tell, I'll just kind of jump the shark here for a second. I did look at some projections heading into the season. The one I could find that I felt trusted and just kind of I liked their stuff, that they put out fan graphs as the Tigers finishing in fourth place with a record of 71 and 91. So a little bit worse than the 2021 season. A little bit better than last year. And honestly, I think that's fair. That seems right. Of course, I hope they catch lightning in a bottle and they win some of those close games early on in the year, and maybe that pushes them closer to that 500 mark. I mean, it's just so pathetic that here we are, so many years into this stupid ass rebuild. Not a rebuild, rebuilding the rebuild. Covering up Alavilla's mistakes, going into the Scott Harris era, whatever you want to call it. Eight years in. We're just hoping it's an atrocious mindset to have that. Finishing 500 feels like we're going to throw a parade sometime in October, because that's honestly what it feels like to be a Tigers fan. And that's the truth. That's where we're at right now. Forget winning the division. Forget competing for a wild card. If we could win 81 baseball games, I am convinced that they may make it a national holiday in the city of Detroit.

Alex Freeman: If we could be 500 in April, I think I'm ready to throw a throw parade.

Luke Jaconis: This is going to be it's gonna be a it's going to be a tough April. Unless unless they are hot out of the gate. And I'm not just saying that to be the, you know, pessimistic here, but you look at the schedule. It is a tough April. And you look at their last two Aprils and how poorly they've gone. Good luck. Good luck.

Alex Freeman: What do we do, if April and May look like April and May have looked the last seven years?

Luke Jaconis: I don't know.

Alex Freeman: How do we keep watching baseball in June if that's the case? Because this roster is not like if April and May are terrible like they have been, they're done. And what then does Scott Harris do? Because there's not pieces to get rid of. There's not moves to be made at the trade deadline. There's just we're awful for another four months.

Luke Jaconis: I guess, the question is, like, who would the Tigers then target the trade? Do you trade someone like Javi Bayes? Do you trade someone like Eduardo Rodriguez? There's been rumors that Erod may get traded before opening day even. So, who knows? Who knows? But those are probably the kind of, I mean, Mickey's off the books after this season. maybe a guy like a Matt Manning. You do some package. Who knows? I think the only guy that I really feel is Untouchable right now is Riley Green. and rightfully, I can't believe him m saying Spencer TorqueL. Does he get moved if he gets really hot out the gate? I think Torque is also pretty high up there, for the record, on that Untouchable list as well.

Alex Freeman: I think if he's doing well enough to be potentially traded, I think that has put him into the Untouchable category.

Luke Jaconis: I agree. Why would you trade a guy that if he's beating up and everything, could be a huge benefit down the road? So?

Alex Freeman: Yeah.

Luke Jaconis: I don't know. I mean, I'm not trying to be negative, but I think there's a very good chance that by the end of April, this team is already a good ten to twelve games under 500. You look at that month of April schedule, and I know we're not going to do a schedule breakdown today on this episode, but it's brutal. Just I'm going to throw you some teams real quick that they will be playing, if my app would ever load. Come on, MLB. This is brutal. Anyways, there's a lot of good teams at the price analysis. Okay, here we go. Boston. Toronto. I mean San Francisco. Cleveland. Baltimore. Milwaukee. Baltimore. These are all teams, if I'm not mistaken, that last year finished 500 or close within a couple of games. There's no Royals on this list. There's no Pittsburgh Pirates on this list. These are all teams that are good. God, you're playing three teams from the Al lease. And that division is going to be again route, actually four teams tampa, Houston, Boston, Toronto, and Baltimore and then Cleveland. It's going to be tough. It is April and then, oh, by the way, it doesn't get any easier. in May, the Mets, the Cardinals, Cleveland, Seattle. And then for two games, they get the Pittsburgh Pirates. So AJ. Hinch better have miracle speech.

Alex Freeman: Got two wins locked in, in April and May. Look at the world neither of them will be against the Pirates. That's the thing that's going to be the most frustrating yeah. Not to continue kicking this roster, but as I look at it, I'm excited about two guys. Maybe like, I'm excited about Riley Green, but I'm excited in the way that Detroit fans have been excited about guys for their whole lives. I'm excited about what Riley Green can do this season. there's still not a team around him that they can actually do anything with.

Luke Jaconis: That right. And you have to imagine, too, that Ericos is by no means the concrete catcher for years to come. He's definitely kind of just being given an opportunity. Scope, this is his final year. So, honestly, if Scope gets off to a hot start, which historically does not, he could get traded at the deadline if his team is a dumpster fire. so, yeah, again, a lot, it's going to rely on the bounce back. And it's hard for us right now to think positively because one, look at the roster, how can you blame us? Two, they made no moves this offseason. And three, ah, going off 2022 numbers and statistics, it was absolutely trash. So it's hard to get real jazz right now for Tigers baseball. but one other thing I want to point out too, real quick. I'm not saying that this is a huge thing because the shift going away and things and, going like that. But looking at the roster right now, there are no switch hitters on this team.

Alex Freeman: No, it's also like it's also very righty. Righty. Heavy.

Luke Jaconis: Yeah. It's I mean, just looking at the projected lineup and let's assume Kreidler wins the starting job out of Camp asses are righty. Pork scope. Abby fridler miggy. I mean, that leaves you, Riley Green, Badu and Meadows all bat and lefty. And then coming off the bench, Verling's, Arighty, Rogers are writing. Tyler Nevin, Donny Sands, justin harry Milloy. If they ever get called up. Both righties. I'm sure we're going to see some other guys throughout the season who kind of may, change that. But for what it's worth, victor Reyes, WILLOUGHLY Castro, Jamer candelario even captain Celery himself, tucker Barnhart could at least give you some different lineups that you could put into play being that they were switch hitters. is what it is. Did you see speaking of Captain Celery, he signed with the Cubs this offseason and recently, our guy, Michael Fulmer just signed with the Cubs, too. So congrats to him. Going to be pitching on the North Side this year. So best of luck, Mike.

Alex Freeman: Yeah. I hope it's a good year for him. I like him. Yeah. M. I think that's my whole issue with this roster. I like all these guys.

Luke Jaconis: huh.

Alex Freeman: I don't really love it. Love any of them.

Luke Jaconis: on my s**t list from last.

Alex Freeman: Year, except for maybe Riley Grace, obviously. I'll put the caveat in here so that people don't yell at us in the comments. Miguel Cabrera is exempt from all of these conversations, because we love Miguel Cabrera and it is his final year, no questions asked. I want to see Miguel Cabrera in the lineup regularly. do I think that is the best thing for this team? No, I would love it to be, I would love the team to be in a situation where we're giving Miguel Cabrera at bats out of respect for his long career. Not that we need his bat in the lineup, but, I think we need his bat in the.

Luke Jaconis: Lineup. One thing I would love to see for Miguel return this year, if kind of like how it happened with Albert Pooholz last year. I would love to see a power surge return for Miguel Cabrera. And I'm not saying because I think how many home runs did Albert end up hitting last year? Is anyone from, like, 18 to 20 ish in that ballpark? I don't think Miggy is there, but if Miggy could give us, like, a good ten to 13 home runs, like, just something like he had, like, four last year, the power I mean, all he did last year was hit singles, pretty much. So, I mean, I'm not even talking long ball, just, like, you know, maybe some more doubles, you know, hey, I would love to see Miguel Cabrera maybe hit one more triple. I don't know how many career triples he has, but I would love to I sure that would sure make me laugh, watching him run, going for a triple. And I feel at some point at time m yeah, miguel Cabrera, at one point in time, was going to go for a triple in his last year. And I think this also might be the first year we see Miguel Cabrera try to bump for a hit. Why not? What does he have to lose?

Alex Freeman: Honestly, he's the fastest man in baseball. Luke.

Luke Jaconis: It's true.

Alex Freeman: And it's true. this is our moment for our annual miguel Cabrera is in the best shape of his life coming into camp. I can't wait.

Luke Jaconis: soon we'll hear that. Soon we will hear that. one thing I wanted to talk about too, real quick, the one move we already kind of talked a little bit lineup wise. and the one move this offset I think that was the most intriguing giving Scott Harris credit was the trade, sending Gregory Soto and Cody Clemens to Philadelphia in returns, getting back Nick Mayton, Matt Veerling and Donny Sands. let's start with losing Gregory Soto. I'm okay with it. when Gregory Soto was on, he was on. Gregory Soto is just far too inconsistent that I'm comfortable with. Cody Clemens, for me, was kind of one of those Aloevila Prospect guys. I was like, it's Cody Clemens. I don't know where ever going to see him really do much. so I'm okay with that. And getting back three young, kind of versatile position players. I like that. And good speed. you have a potential catching process with Donny Sand. So that was the one moved this off season. I was like, okay, Scott Harris, I'm cool with this. I just wish he would have maybe made like two or three more moves, kind of, of that caliber, something along those lines. So I, guess he kind of did it with the Joe Jimenez trade as well, bringing in, Justin Henry Malloy. But it is what it is there. let's talk about rotation here for a little bit.

Alex Freeman: If you're cool with it.

Luke Jaconis: Let's get into the pitching side of things and that will transition us into bullpen. so I guess right now, starting pitcher opening day, unless things change at Juarez Rodriguez, I guess that's what we're thinking.

Alex Freeman: yeah, that's what I would do.

Luke Jaconis: From the projected rotations that I've been seeing just kind of posted throughout the internet, you, got, Erod, Matthew Boyd, Matt Manning, Michael Lorenz and Spencer Turnbull kind of R five heading into the season. Obviously things could change. Guys win jobs out of camp maybe. So that kind of puts like, what do you do with Bo Briskey? Joey wentz. Alex fayetto. I think you're definitely going to see whence in Fayetto, maybe even Brisket go to the bullpen. I, really would love to see Bo Briskey, get a shot at the starting rotation. I don't really know where he fits whose place he takes really, at this point, because all the five guys named at the top, those seem kind of like locks. I mean, obviously Boyd and Lorenz and they just signed those guys. Erod, definitely has, some money to make and he went through some personal issues last year, but really didn't get much of a Water Rodriguez last year. And Matt Manning is really one of the big three who's healthy right now. So with Scuba and Miso, I don't know where a guy like Briskey would fit in rotation wise. But there's a good chance you could see probably Brisky once in Fiato in the bullpen this year, especially because we've lost some arms, this offseason.

Alex Freeman: Yeah, I don't disagree with anything that you just said there. I would be more excited about that rotation if I didn't have, the history with so many of these guys that we have, like, if they were fresh to the Tigers. Matt Boyd, erod Matt Manning. Obviously lots of life left in Matt Manning's career. Spencer Turnbull. I think my issue is that I look at it and I go, oh, we're going to really lean on Matt Manning, more than I want us to be leaning on him at this point in his career. Similarly, like if Borisky wins a spot in the rotation. we need Borisky to be truly worthy of that spot, more so than maybe he is at in career development.

Luke Jaconis: Right. Well, also and this kind of is a given, but I would feel a lot better with this rotation if Terrick Scuba was at it. I'd feel a hell of a lot better. I'd be like, all right, if you take out Lorenz and you've got Scuba, or if you take out Boyd and you put in schools, like, all right, I'm kind of work with this, and we're going to get Scuba back sometime this season. So that is encouraging. MYS is probably done for the whole year, but they're saying, I think June for Scuba. If I were a betting man, I'd say we don't see Terror Scuba pitch until after the All Star break. I would agree with that. And at that point, depending where this team is in terms of contention, that also could be a factor as well. But, yeah, so I would feel a hell of better if Terry Scuba was in the starting rotation. That's kind of the understatement of the year. So let's transition to bullpen. So you lose last season. Michael Fulmer, you trade away this year. Joe Jimenez and Gregory Soto. Andrew, Chaffin declined his option, so he's currently a free agent. Maybe he comes back, maybe he doesn't. Maybe we get another bullpen edition sometime, between now and opening day. Here's where the bullpen currently stands, kind of from my perspective. So those three guys I just mentioned, Borisky, Joey once, Alex Fiato, you have to imagine they'll be incorporated in some capacity. Tyler Alexander and Ronnie Garcia both continue to just somehow, they always wind up back in the bullpen.

Alex Freeman: Somehow.

Luke Jaconis: Those guys, they're kind of like you said in the beginning of the show, it's like a dirty penny. Is that what you called me?

Alex Freeman: It's a bad penny? It's a bad penny.

Luke Jaconis: A bad penny.

Alex Freeman: Sorry.

Luke Jaconis: A dirty penny. A dirty penny. It's a dirty, gross, stinky penny that's been caught in couch cushions for many years. And then you're kind of going to look at more of the core, I think, of this bullpen, which is going to be Will Vest, Jason Foley, Jose Cisnero, and the guy who I think is going to be the closer come opening day, alex Lang, which I'm excited for that for. I think Alex Lang has some really nasty stuff, and I think he's earned, depending on how his camp goes this year. I would be more than happy to give him the reins as the closer.

Alex Freeman: Yeah. I would also like to see AJ. Has sort of gone away from that traditional closer mentality, and just thinking about high leverage spots. not that loving a closer is necessarily a traditionalist standpoint, but I do think that there is something to be said of, like, this guy's got the 9th, and being able to mentally prepare for that as the guy. I would like to see that a little bit more consistently and, kind of build somebody into that spot, because we've watched our bullpen blow enough leads, throughout our life that it'd be nice to well, it was funny.

Luke Jaconis: We actually, for a year and a half or two years there, actually had a pretty decent little bullpen. And now it's like, oh, boy, are we going back to are we going back to that 2018, 2019 years prior Tigers bullpen? I guess time will tell. I mean, look, if Lange pitches like Lang has these last few seasons and Cisnero does as well, we'll vest fully. You incorporate some of these young arms, brisky, Fiato, wentz, et cetera, at Garrett Hill, obviously under the tutelage of Chris Federer, who we think is a godsend, for the Detroit Tigers. I'm still pretty confident with the Tigers both. And if you said the three things right now, from lineup, starting rotation and Bulkin that I'm most confident in, I'm still going to say it's the Bolton at this point, which I can't believe I'm saying that heading into, ah, another Tiger season. But here we are.

Alex Freeman: Yeah, it's interesting as we continue to have this conversation about the overall roster. Right. I'm still not excited about any single portion of this roster, but I'm not uncomfortable with the bullpen. I'm not uncomfortable with the starting rotation. I wish it were better. I wish there was obviously not Shirzer specifically, but a guy like Scherzer that I was like, let's go. I am not missing a single start that this guy pitches. to talk about the lineup, we also have to remember and keep in mind as we go into this season, we have a whole new hitting staff, that we know that's been probably the central problem of the last two seasons is that this team has not been able to hit. That is maybe the biggest question mark of my excitement, I guess, is that, okay, what are we going to start to see in spring training that tells us that, okay, yeah, it was the hitting staff more than it was the guys in the roster. And I think we got a glimpse of that a little bit with Robbie Grossman when he went to the Braves. of like, oh, yeah, here's a minor adjustment to make. And now you're the Robbie Grossman that the Tigers wanted when we signed you.

Luke Jaconis: Yeah, I think that's valid. See what this new hitting staff does bring to the table. I can't stop thinking about that April schedule for every second I kind of get. All right, well, maybe this kind of piece is intriguing. This is intriguing. This guy's young. Let's see if this guy has a bounce back. I just think, like, how is this team that doesn't even have a legit third base right now supposed to compete with tampa and Houston. And I can't believe I'm m saying this, but Baltimore, the Mets in May, those teams I just mentioned, Toronto, I'll throw them in there as well. Those are juggernaut teams. Well, maybe Baltimore is maybe not a juggernaut team, but they were definitely a fun team to watch last year. I think they're going to be good this year. But like, the Toronto's, the Houston, the Tampas, the Mets, the Cargoes, those are juggernaut teams. And it's like mind boggling that we're going to have to compete against them. It's like, oh, s**t, we don't even have a third.

Alex Freeman: Baseman.

Luke Jaconis: We don't know what's going on. One of our best players is a 40 year old who really only hit singles at this point in his career. When I think of stuff like that, I'm like, oh yeah, this is the team that's going to barely win 50 games this year. and then I think even getting to a, record like Fang Grass had a 71 and 91, that feels like, impossible. But stranger things have happened. And like I said, at the very top of the show, not to be Captain Cliche, but if some guys have some bounce backs, and if some guys play like we think they're capable of, and if Hobby Bias is in a complete liability, it's shortstop defensively. And if the Angels win the pennant and Joseph Gordon Levitt's dad comes back, you just never know what could happen, I guess. But I'm not holding my breath on that team.

Alex Freeman: We're so beaten down as fans that we're like 70. one and 91. That's a bit of a stretch. Could it happen? though, but if some things bounce the right way, it could be 20 games under 500.

Luke Jaconis: Yeah. Right now, I'm not doing an official projection yet, but my number right now is like, the Tigers win like six games in the month of.

Alex Freeman: April. All right, this is going to bring us to, not a new segment of the show, but another one of our new standardized segments where, I'm going to talk about some stats and or trivia as we go into this. And I'm going to quiz Luke. But, first a little music drop.

Luke Jaconis: I like your theme music, too.

Alex Freeman: Isn't that nice?

Luke Jaconis: Yeah, good stuff. I would have preferred it was a little bit more like the first season of Boy Meets World. The, intro.

Alex Freeman: Music. Look, if you if you got any further, we would have owed Disney $4,000. So I'm glad you said I know.

Luke Jaconis: Go ahead, Mr. Feeney.

Alex Freeman: Okay. Luke, Google is trying.

Luke Jaconis: To google wants to get in on the action.

Alex Freeman: Google wants in, the, 122 year history of the Detroit Tigers. How many times have they made the playoffs? Oh.

Luke Jaconis: God. I'll just try to do the years. I know they made the playoffs. All right, so 611, 12, 13, 14. That's five. The roar of 84.

Alex Freeman: That's. At least six.

Luke Jaconis: I think they won in the 60s. They won four World Series. Not mistaken.

Alex Freeman: That is correct.

Luke Jaconis: That puts us at least all right, I'm going to say 122 years.

Alex Freeman: You said. Yes.

Luke Jaconis: All right, give me a little no. I'm going to throw out a number, then I'll ask for a hand. I'm going to say they've made the playoffs. Let's see here. 23 times.

Alex Freeman: That is too high.

Luke Jaconis: Okay. I'm trying to think, like, the early 19 hundreds, maybe. So are we in the teens?

Alex Freeman: I'm guessing we are in the teens. Okay.

Luke Jaconis: I'm, going to say 14.

Alex Freeman: Very close. It is 16 times the Detroit Tigers have made the playoffs. How many times have they then made it to the World Series? Oh, God. Now, in some of these scenarios, right. in the early years of Major League Baseball that was making the playoffs. Yeah, we went to the World Series.

Luke Jaconis: Well, they got four World Series, and they lost twice in six and twelve. So that at least puts it six right there. And I'll tack on a couple more in the early days. So let's say out of the 16 times they made the playoffs, I'm going to say they've gone into World Series nine times.

Alex Freeman: Very close again. Eleven times.

Luke Jaconis: Oh, that's my number.

Alex Freeman: Eleven. Damn it. Which, I mean, not a bad play off record. if you've made it 16 times, you go to the World Series eleven times, but like them to perform better in the World Series and have more than four. Yeah.

Luke Jaconis: So because that means four for yeah. Four for eleven in the World Series. That's not great.

Alex Freeman: when was the last time the Detroit Tigers won a playoff series?

Luke Jaconis: Won a playoff series? Yeah. 2013.

Alex Freeman: That is correct. Against who?

Luke Jaconis: was that against the Oakland Athletics?

Alex Freeman: It was tom, please stop yelling at your radio.

Luke Jaconis: Suck at souls.

Alex Freeman: And then, obviously, they made the playoffs in 2014, but lost to the Baltimore Orioles in the divisional series. those are my numbers for today. Just to kind of like I like them. Yeah. I mean, less than 10% of the time, the Detroit Tigers have made the playoffs. Would love to see that ah. Be different.

Luke Jaconis: I have a quick one for you. I'm going to throw a quiz right back to you.

Alex Freeman: I love it.

Luke Jaconis: Mr. Phoenix. Every week, every episode, I'm going to give you an obscure Tigers player question and see if you can get it. Who was the Tigers starting catcher going into the 2009 season? 2009. I could totally be wrong on this, but I remember I'm pretty sure he was the.

Alex Freeman: Guy. I have three different guys in my head, but I think I'm dancing around and I actually don't think it's any.

Luke Jaconis: Single one of them.

Alex Freeman: Okay. it's too early for.

Luke Jaconis: Avila. I think that was his debut year, for what it's worth, if I'm not mistaken, the nine or ten he debuted, actually. No, it was 2009. That was his debut.

Alex Freeman: I remember it's not McCann, I'm not mistaken. Yeah.

Luke Jaconis: Not McCam.

Alex Freeman: Pudge was gone by then, but yeah, Pudge was gone. Who was it?

Luke Jaconis: The answer we're looking for number eight, gerald Laird.

Alex Freeman: Gerald Laird or Jerry Laird?

Luke Jaconis: All right, we'll try again next week with you. But Gerald Laird. Yeah, the more, you.

Alex Freeman: Know, shout.

Luke Jaconis: Out to Gerald Laird, man.

Alex Freeman: Shout out to Gerald Laird.

Luke Jaconis: Also forgotten.

Alex Freeman: Yeah, because obviously then we had Avila and so why would we need Laird.

Luke Jaconis: When you have layered came back off. He backed up one season. I want to say maybe it was in 2012 he backed up or 2011, one of the two. I don't remember. But he came back as a backup one year as well.

Alex Freeman: Well, Luke, I think that's going to be back, baby. This episode. We are back. any closing thoughts before we depart?

Luke Jaconis: No, I'm really excited, to get to do another season with you. I feel like towards the end of last season, and I don't know if you've ever said this, we both were kind of like the rain, just talking about the team. I think that also kind of shows with our lack of recordings we did in the offseason, but also, like, really.

Alex Freeman: Took an off season.

Luke Jaconis: We did one episode in the off season. We really needed to take a break, at least I know I did, from Tigers baseball and just other things were going on in life and we had other things we were doing. But, yeah, as we do this, it gets me excited and I know I'm going to be burnt again, I'm going to be let down again. That's kind of how it is to be a Tigers fan. But at least I have you here to join me in the misery every couple of weeks. So I look forward to that. And thank you to all of our, listeners and our watchers and people get to interact with us on Twitter. you know, they're always a lot of fun. So it's exciting. And here we are, season four as they sit on that episode of Hot, ones with Paul Rudd. Look at us. Who would have thought it?

Alex Freeman: Not me. Not me. All right, Luke, we'll talk soon. Have a good one. See.

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