Make Trades Great Again artwork

Make Trades Great Again

390 episodes - English - Latest episode: 5 days ago -

Welcome to Make Trades Great Again! Join Eric and Andy, seasoned plumbing and heating contractors turned business owners, as they dive deep into the world of skilled trades careers.


If you're passionate about building a successful service business or considering starting your own venture in the skilled trades industry, smash that subscribe button. With their wealth of experience and expertise, Eric and Andy share invaluable insights on everything from launching your own business, setting competitive rates, and navigating the challenges of entrepreneurship.


Discover the secrets to thriving in the competitive trades landscape as Eric and Andy unravel practical tips, proven strategies, and real-life anecdotes that will fuel your journey towards excellence. Whether you're an aspiring tradesperson, a seasoned professional, or simply intrigued by the fascinating world of skilled trades, this podcast is your go-to resource for success.


Tune in twice a week for engaging discussions, in-depth interviews with industry leaders, and step-by-step guidance on investing wisely in your trade business. We'll explore essential topics like financial management, client relations, staying updated with industry advancements, and much more.


"Make Trades Great Again" is available on all major podcast platforms, ensuring you never miss a chance to level up your career in the trades. Let Eric and Andy empower you to take charge of your professional destiny and carve a rewarding path in the world of skilled trades. Get ready to transform your passion into a thriving and profitable venture!

Careers Business plumbing hvac electrical carpentry trades tradie skills tools mechanicalhub mtga
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Episodes

Power struggles over the grid in Minnesota!

April 23, 2024 05:00 - 38 minutes - 26.5 MB

Some pretty big changes are in the works for how Minnesotans pay for, and use electricity which had the guys discussing everything from electrification, off-peak electrical and the home heating utility usages from one state to the next.  To our faithful listeners: No actual investigative journalism was used for this groundbreaking discussion and revelations.  Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out ou...

Eric had surgery. He wont shut up about it...

April 16, 2024 05:00 - 21 minutes - 14.8 MB

In all seriousness, the guys do talk about a couple recent medical events as a reminder that none of are invincible and taking care of ourselves is paramount to having a long successful career in the trades.  Pre-surgery talk started back in February in episode 279: https://maketrades.buzzsprout.com Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our website: mechanical-hub.com

Tips & Tricks for Economic Shifts

April 09, 2024 05:00 - 26 minutes - 18.3 MB

Eric and Andy share insights and strategies for navigating economic slowdowns amidst shifting market conditions. Whether it's seasonal fluctuations or the impact of high interest rates and inflation on consumer behavior, they delve into practical approaches. This episode focuses on the effective practices that have sustained their plumbing and heating service business, with potential applications for various other industries. Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels...

Big changes coming for MTGA

February 27, 2024 06:00 - 12 minutes - 8.48 MB

It’s time for a break from new episodes while the guys work on a new approach to delivering the MTGA content and topics.  Please take a look at any one of the 280 previous episodes in our library if you haven’t heard them all. We will be back, thank you for your continued support!  Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our website: mechanical-hub.com

Give me my money!

February 20, 2024 06:00 - 39 minutes - 27.2 MB

Credit card payments are the norm but how much of a risk are they if payments can be easily disputed and taken from you?  The guys talk about this as it all started from, where else but a stupid Facebook group…  Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our website: mechanical-hub.com

Quit Putting It Off!

February 13, 2024 06:00 - 25 minutes - 17.4 MB

Eric has a minor surgery coming up, Andy just had one himself and both could've been done months or even years ago but it's too easy to put it off for another day.  In this episode the guys say lit like it is, you gotta make yourself a priority, if you don't it's only going to get worse.  Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our website: mechanical-hub.com

Becky & Michael, RIDGID Tools

February 08, 2024 06:00 - 21 minutes - 14.9 MB

Here's another one from AHR Expo 2024. Our friends Becky Brotherton and Michael Provenzano join us to talk about the iconic tool company's 100 years of manufacturing history and more.  Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our website: mechanical-hub.com

Samsung HVAC's Wade McCorkel live from AHR Expo

February 06, 2024 06:00 - 21 minutes - 14.7 MB

Heat Pumps are everywhere and Samsung HVAC has new technology on the market now and coming. Wade McCorkel of Samsung HVAC joins the guys at AHR Expo in Chicago to talk dual fuel and universal heat pump tech.  Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our website: mechanical-hub.com

Bryan Orr, host of HVAC School Podcast

February 01, 2024 06:00 - 28 minutes - 19.5 MB

Live from AHR Expo in Chicago, the guys sit down with Bryan Orr. Bryan Orr is the Co-Owner of Kalos Services Inc. an Orlando- area HVAC contracting business as well as an audio nerd and podcaster.  Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our website: mechanical-hub.com

Keep The Heat On!

January 30, 2024 06:00 - 17 minutes - 12.3 MB

Warning: Lots of weather talk in this one lol.  When the weather dips to the double digits below zero (F) the heat needs to stay on because setting-back the temperature may be a recipe for disaster.  The guys talk ways to combat the extreme cold and how talking with your customers ahead of the storm might be useful.  Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our website: mechanical-hub.com

No heat, no hot water..

January 25, 2024 06:00 - 23 minutes - 16.5 MB

Setting expectations ahead of starting a job is an obvious step in the process of service, repair, construction right?  Eric tells of a recent job when it didn’t start out so great.  Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our website: mechanical-hub.com

Eric looks back on '23, Forward into 2024

January 23, 2024 06:00 - 18 minutes - 13 MB

Will Aune Plumbing expand in 2024? Looking back on 2023 and forward in the new year.  There's always time to make plans and set goals but the new year seems like the most appropriate. What are some of your goals for 2024? Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our website: mechanical-hub.com

5 Things Apprentices Should Do Every Day

January 18, 2024 06:00 - 34 minutes - 23.6 MB

If you're an apprentice this one's for you! If you're not an apprentice but know someone coming up in the trades, please share this with them asap!  In this episode Eric & Andy go thru a list of five things/habits/behaviors today's apprentice needs to do or think about daily.  Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our website: mechanical-hub.com

Reviewing 2023 w/ Andy

January 16, 2024 06:00 - 16 minutes - 11.6 MB

It's that time of year to look forward into the new year. This is also worth reflecting on the past year to gauge successes. This isn't a New Year Resolution episode!  Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our website: mechanical-hub.com

The Buzzfeed Quiz w/ Chad

January 11, 2024 06:00 - 32 minutes - 22.4 MB

Chad joins the guys to take a buzzfeed quiz to see what career we’re supposed to have. The results are as ridiculous as you probably expect.  Thanks to our friend Chad Killinger for joining us.  Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our website: mechanical-hub.com

Breaking Down the Estimating Process

January 09, 2024 06:00 - 34 minutes - 24 MB

“If you break it down into bitesize pieces you can eat an elephant” -Andy  In this episode the guys talk over how to approach estimating jobs large and small. Thanks to everyone writing in lately!  Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our website: mechanical-hub.com

Job Seekers: Do This!

January 04, 2024 06:00 - 28 minutes - 19.8 MB

Some old school tactics still work when looking for employment no matter how many job services are out there.  The internet is awesome but following up on a job application can get you ahead of the competition. Also did you know there is a whole online service just for blue collar jobs?  Check this out and more in this episode where the guys talk about how they got hired into the trades and what worked all those years ago, how it’s still working today.  Send us your feedback or topic idea...

New in town & starting a business?

January 02, 2024 06:00 - 24 minutes - 17 MB

More listener mail from Australia. The guys talk about some things they’d consider in preparation of starting a new business.  Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our website: mechanical-hub.com

To Replace or Not to Replace

December 21, 2023 05:00 - 18 minutes - 12.9 MB

Luke, from Adelaide, Australia writes in to ask about our thoughts on inexperienced technicians driving a throw away society vs. finding the fault and repairing equipment. Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our website: mechanical-hub.com

Never Work With Family. Buying the business, not the baggage

December 19, 2023 06:00 - 29 minutes - 20.1 MB

Longtime listener Dillon writes in with a followup to an episode from almost two years ago when he was looking for advice on buying the business he was working for.   Dillon is at the point in owning the business where he needs to expand. He also had to fire the son of the former owner of the business.  Is not hiring and expanding as much of a risk as hiring? Maybe!  Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Che...

Take this job and shove it!

December 14, 2023 06:00 - 33 minutes - 23.1 MB

Andy tells us about a problem job they’ve been dealing with for a few years. Ever have one of those jobs you wish you never took on? How about a piece of equipment or materials you regret installing?  Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our website: mechanical-hub.com

What’s an ideal length of apprenticeship?

December 12, 2023 06:00 - 15 minutes - 10.4 MB

How long is long enough for proper training in the skilled trades? It’s no secret we are not attracting more young adults than needed into the trades, could a shorter training period move the needle on interest?  What are your thoughts? We’d love to hear from you!  Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our website: mechanical-hub.com

New business idea? Off grid heating

December 07, 2023 06:00 - 24 minutes - 16.9 MB

We recently talked about all these connected systems and appliances but what about an old school, simple system that’s not connected? Are we talking survival/prepping type of clientele or just simplification?  Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our website: mechanical-hub.com

New hire ride-along

December 05, 2023 06:00 - 17 minutes - 12.3 MB

The guys talk about bringing in new techs and how Andy’s new hire is starting out with the company.  Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our website: mechanical-hub.com

Slow down!

November 30, 2023 06:00 - 30 minutes - 21.2 MB

Ever wondered why we prefer our turkey fried rather than baked or roasted? Curious about the art of Spatchcocking that gives us the most succulent chicken? Well, sit back, relax, and let's talk about our unique Thanksgiving practices. Our holiday dinner tables may not look like your average ones, but our smoked turkey, ham, and Spatchcock chickens on the pellet grill are certain to whet your appetite! As we traverse through the holiday season, road safety becomes a paramount concern. Join u...

Exploring Our Coffee Rituals and Power Tool Puzzles

November 28, 2023 06:00 - 15 minutes - 10.9 MB

"Coffee talk" lol, no really, the Nespresso machine is worth it! The guys BS some more in this episode about multiple topics like coffee and "why the hell did my M12 Fuel band saw turn to garbage?" -Eric  As always, thank you for listening. Thank you for the feedback and please take a minute to rate us in your podcast app. We do appreciate your time!  Send us your feedback or topic ideas over on our social channels! Eric Aune @mechanicalhub Andy Mickelson @mick_plumb Check out our websit...

Does Andy need a new shop?

November 23, 2023 06:00 - 34 minutes - 24 MB

Ever wondered how the pros prepare for the harsh winter months in the HVAC industry? Well, you're in for a treat as we share our seasoned insights on dealing with the hustle and bustle of heating season, the significance of meticulous preparation, and the art of staying ahead in this game. Oh, and let's not forget the occasional 60-degree days that still have customers fretting about their feline friends' escapades in the great outdoors!  Next up, let's talk job site organization and the be...

Cash Hoarding

November 21, 2023 06:00 - 11 minutes - 8.27 MB

Ever had a customer reach into a gun safe overflowing with cash to pay for a service call? We've got a cracker of a chat lined up where we share our bemusing and sometimes perplexing experiences with customers doling out large amounts of cash for our services. From navigating the logistics of hefty bank deposits to the discomfort of possibly handling counterfeit money, we dive deep into this emerging trend that's got our brains buzzing. More than just an unexpected change in customer behavi...

Another App?! Are all these connected appliances necessary?

November 16, 2023 06:00 - 32 minutes - 22.4 MB

Connected HVAC appliances aren't necessarily, they've been around for a while now but everyday there seems to be a new app, a new way to commission or some sort of incentive to internet monitoring.  But do our customers want another app? Ar ethe incentives worth it? Remember when a furnace or water heater wasn't so fussy? We do and some of Eric's customers are starting to gripe about all this "necessary" technology.  We're going to address the hesitation some customers have towards interne...

Trust But Verify! Dealing with job challenges.

November 14, 2023 06:00 - 16 minutes - 11.3 MB

Ever had a colossal blunder on your hands that resulted in a rooftop unit curb adapter not fitting the new unit? Well, that was us. Join us as we dissect this recent debacle, from our oversight of not getting the spec sheet for the curb adapter, to dealing with a reversed supply and return situation. We'll share some hard-learned lessons on the importance of acquiring the right information beforehand, and how a simple mistake can quickly escalate into a logistical nightmare.  Moving onto de...

When is enough, enough? Should we troubleshoot over the phone or schedule a service call?

November 09, 2023 06:00 - 29 minutes - 20.3 MB

Are you walking the tightrope of remote troubleshooting? From dealing with difficult customer calls when systems fail to the tricky decision of when to inspect in-person or troubleshoot over the phone, we bring you a candid conversation about the realities of our industry. Let's take, for instance, the case of a customer with icy radiators - we'll walk you through this firsthand experience and show you how we approach such a scenario. The balancing act doesn't end there. In our deep-dive in...

Going the Extra Mile

October 17, 2023 05:00 - 16 minutes - 11.4 MB

Do you ever wonder what makes 'some' contractors stand out from the crowd? What if we told you it's as simple as 'going the extra mile' for customers? This episode is a deep dive into the contractor-customer relationship. We discuss the importance of referring other contractors, and how crucial it is to have an open and honest approach while doing so. As we share our experiences, we underscore the critical nature of alerting the customer about potential issues that may arise, which they may ...

Fuel Prices: Navigating Winter Heating Costs

October 12, 2023 05:00 - 33 minutes - 23.1 MB

As winter's icy grip fastens, are you prepared for the hike in heating costs? With nearly half of U.S households warming their homes with natural gas, many are in for a shock as heating costs skyrocket by 28% compared to last winter. But wait, there's hope! This episode provides tips on how to make savvy long-term investments like insulating your home and replacing old windows, particularly for homeowners in Northeast with older homes. Discover how you can protect yourself from the chill wit...

Now Hiring!

October 10, 2023 05:00 - 16 minutes - 11.3 MB

Ever wondered about the complex process of hiring plumbers and the hurdles that businesses face along the way? Today, we take an insightful journey into the plumbing industry, discussing the key challenges that come with hiring plumbers, from pre-employment checks for licenses and insurance to assessing the potential of candidates with past mistakes. If you’re involved in, or considering a career in the plumbing industry, you’ll find this discussion chock-full of practical insights. We take...

Top 3 Mistakes New Business Owners Make and How to Avoid Them

October 05, 2023 05:00 - 26 minutes - 18.5 MB

Ever dreamed of running your own business? Buckle up as we reveal the top three blunders new entrepreneurs often fall prey to, and how a solid business plan can prove to be an invaluable tool in sidestepping these common pitfalls. Guided by the enduring wisdom of Benjamin Franklin, we underscore the role of meticulous planning in both life and business.  Wondering how to safeguard your venture from the perils of overspending and underpricing? We dive deep into our own experiences and shed l...

Top Mistakes New Owners Make and How to Avoid Them

October 05, 2023 05:00 - 27 minutes - 19.2 MB

Ever dreamed of running your own business? Buckle up as we reveal the top three blunders new entrepreneurs often fall prey to, and how a solid business plan can prove to be an invaluable tool in sidestepping these common pitfalls. Guided by the enduring wisdom of Benjamin Franklin, we underscore the role of meticulous planning in both life and business.  Wondering how to safeguard your venture from the perils of overspending and underpricing? We dive deep into our own experiences and shed l...

You installed it. You NEED to service it!

October 03, 2023 05:00 - 17 minutes - 12.2 MB

Ever been left in the lurch because you didn't have the right part at hand? Don’t let missing parts throw a wrench in your day. We explore the importance of a well-stocked parts kit, and how it can save both time and money when it comes to equipment installation and repairs. Drawing from my own experiences, we delve not only into the practical benefits of having the right part at hand, but also the potential cost implications. After all, having the right tools can be the difference between g...

Don't Do What Mark Did!

September 28, 2023 05:00 - 30 minutes - 21.2 MB

Buckle up for an episode full of laughter, intrigue, and insight as we delve into the evolving roles of journeymen and apprentices, share some hilarious tales of our old mate Justin, and discuss the increasing importance of technology in our industry. We've all had a Justin in our lives - the guy who keeps things interesting, to say the least. Strap in for some workplace tales of deception and mystery that rival the best detective novels. When the dust settles, we find ourselves with some v...

Andy updates us on the bathroom remodel saga

September 26, 2023 05:00 - 18 minutes - 12.7 MB

Ever rolled up your sleeves and ventured into the intricate world of bathroom remodeling? If yes, then you'll share in my excitement as I personally navigate this demanding yet rewarding task. From ripping out my old toilet and vanity to mastering the art of plumbing, join me on a behind-the-scenes journey of my very own bathroom renovation. Hear about the nitty-gritty details, the highs and lows, and the ultimate satisfaction of seeing the project come together. I'll also share the unique e...

Ditching Corporate Life: Brent McCauley talks major career change

September 21, 2023 05:00 - 25 minutes - 17.5 MB

Ever wondered how it feels to switch careers and dive headfirst into a completely unfamiliar field? Meet Brent McCauley, a project manager at Aarow Building, who transitioned from university fundraising to the construction industry. His unique journey, filled with challenges and learning experiences, is a testament to the beauty of career exploration. We delve into how Brent found his passion for problem-solving within the building industry, a far cry from his decade-long stint in fundraisin...

Getting Ahead: Business Strategy for Seasonal Changes

September 19, 2023 05:00 - 18 minutes - 12.9 MB

Are you truly prepared for the subtle and not-so-subtle changes the shifting seasons bring on your business? We're sharing our experiences and practical tips on how to adapt and thrive during these seasonal transitions. From the simple tasks like removing non-freeze safe items from your van to the more complex ones like recalibrating combustion analyzers, we've got you covered. We also highlight what types of materials you need to stock up on, like venting for boilers, water heaters, and fur...

Strategies to help close your next sales pitch

September 14, 2023 05:00 - 48 minutes - 33.6 MB

Looking to skyrocket your sales? We promise you that our latest episode of Make Trades Great Again will arm you with the strategies to do so! From the initial phone call to closing the deal, we're going all-in on what it takes to master sales in today's fast-paced business world. We spill the tea on how to attract customers, how to utilize face-to-face meetings to your advantage, and why understanding your customer's needs can be the difference between a sale and a missed opportunity. How o...

Ducted or Not...Heat pump install tips & tricks

September 12, 2023 05:00 - 17 minutes - 12.1 MB

Ready to unravel the fascinating world of heat pump water heaters and the influence of ducting on these devices? We promise, this episode will equip you with insights that can potentially save you a great deal of trouble. We kick off by exploring the common practice of ducting water heaters to the outside and why it might not be required in unfinished spaces. Also, discover how heat pump water heaters can be a game-changer in commercial places where there's an existing heat source. Ever won...

Are we finally back to normal? Where are my materials?!

September 07, 2023 05:00 - 35 minutes - 24.6 MB

Picture this: you're running a small business and you just can't seem to get your hands on the materials you need, in the quantities you need, when you need them. Sounds familiar, doesn't it? We absolutely get it, and we're here to commiserate and share our experiences.  Join us for a fascinating conversation with John Mason Brink from the Appetite for Construction podcast, who's been embroiled in a master bathroom remodel for the last five months due to these exact challenges. We'll be sha...

Eric went to the party & Andy went fishing with the guys

September 05, 2023 05:00 - 15 minutes - 10.5 MB

Ever been to a customer party that involved an ice cream truck, a 70-foot bonfire, and mouth-watering barbecue? Well, we have! Join us as we recount our experience, including our strategy to ward off political debates while we indulged in the fun. Our better halves, our supportive wives, were part of this adventure too, adding to the merriment. As the party winds down, we switch gears to a different sort of fun - fly fishing with a former high school classmate and their guide. Prepare to en...

Are we seeing a shift toward Heat Pump Water Heaters?

August 31, 2023 05:00 - 36 minutes - 24.8 MB

Get ready to unravel the mysteries of heat pump water heaters as we dissect their performance ratings, costs, and efficiency, using spec sheets from industry giants, Bradford White and Reem. These appliances have been sparking interest among DIY enthusiasts, and we're here to break it all down for you. We'll even walk you through why you won't find Bradford White's products in your average hardware store.  Imagine this: you've just invested in a heat pump water heater. You're thrilled about...

The Hidden Dangers of Using Customer-Supplied Fixtures

August 29, 2023 05:00 - 15 minutes - 10.7 MB

Ever wondered what it truly means to stand your ground as a tradesperson? This episode of Make Trades Great Again will enlighten you on the not-so-discussed implications of using customer-supplied equipment and fixtures. We delve into the nitty-gritty of why it's crucial to be knowledgeable about the quality of materials we use and how this impacts our businesses, both in terms of work efficiency and profitability. We also shine a light on the importance of understanding agreements and contr...

Balancing Time & Tasks as a Small Business Owner

August 24, 2023 05:00 - 37 minutes - 25.7 MB

Ever felt bogged down by the chaos of running a business single-handedly, juggling between field operations and office tasks, with last-minute schedule changes throwing you off balance? You’re not alone. Join us as we draw from our own experiences and unravel effective strategies to manage time and streamline operations. It might surprise you to learn that Cheryl spends half her day just on scheduling, but we'll let you in on how managing it right can make a huge difference. What if you had...

Recap of Eric's trip to Milwaukee Pipeline

August 22, 2023 05:00 - 22 minutes - 15.6 MB

Have you ever dreamt of the perfect cup of coffee, hot and ready at the push of a button? Or perhaps you've struggled with unstacking your tool boxes, wishing for a drawer-based solution? Tune in for a  discussion on these and more, as we dissect the highlights of the Milwaukee Pipeline event. We'll delve deep into how Milwaukee's culture of innovation culminates into their products - from battery-powered coffee makers to their hot-selling pack out tumblers. We’ll also address the broader to...

Business Trials and Success Stories w/ Denver Baker

August 17, 2023 05:00 - 50 minutes - 34.7 MB

Ever wondered how two renowned tech tycoons, Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg, facing off in a deathmatch could benefit a veterans charity? Buckle up as Andy and I take you on a journey through our amusing reflection of this hypothetical charity event. We then dive into our personal experiences navigating the sea of new technologies, sharing tales of my initial stumbling blocks with invoicing software and the undeniable value of good old face-to-face interactions with my crew. Sharpen your man...