Nicola Sturgeon, First Minister of Scotland.

Kate Arrow

So welcome to Leading Insights. Today we are joined by the First Minister of Scotland, Nicola Sturgeon. I am Kate Arrow, I'm a registrar in Anaesthesia.

Thomas Lamont

And I'm Thomas Lamont, I'm a Registrar in Restorative Dentistry. First Minister, thank you for joining us. 

Nicola Sturgeon

You’re welcome, lovely to talk to you.

Thomas Lamont

First Minister, you started your career as a solicitor in Glasgow before moving into politics and subsequently into leadership roles. A lot of Doctors, Dentists and Healthcare staff don't really see themselves as leaders. What was it that inspired you to move into leadership roles?

Nicola Sturgeon

I'm not sure it was ever a really conscious decision. I don't think I ever woke up one day thinking I want to be a leader. It was just where the progression of my career took me. I certainly didn't go into politics with any ambition or intention of becoming a leader. I went into politics because of what I believed in and what I wanted to campaign for and try to bring about it. But you know, as I progressed through that I got elected to Parliament and found myself being in leadership positions, and I wouldn't say I always felt or feel comfortable with that, but feeling that there was a degree of aptitude I suppose there that didn't put me off. But you know, as a leader, now, there's not a day goes by where I'm not still learning about what it means to be a leader and hopefully how to be a better leader so I'm not sure in any walk of life; I think leadership is something everybody experiences in one way or another whatever they do in life, but it's, it's not something I would necessarily recommend people should have as their primary objective in life. It's something that if you find yourself in that position, and you think you're up to doing it, then you should do but obviously to learn from others too.

Kate Arrow

Were there key lessons you learn throughout your time as Health Secretary, that have helped you to lead Scotland as First Minister during this COVID-19 pandemic?

Nicola Sturgeon

Yes, loads and loads of lessons and I sometimes can find myself wondering what it would be like to be trying to lead the country through COVID as First Minister had I not had that experience as Health Secretary. I'm sure I would be doing it and I'm trying my best to do it, but there's no doubt that being Health Secretary he has helped with that, you know, first and foremost, at a very basic level, it gave me an understanding of how the health and care system works that, you know, I would not have had as directly without the five years or so I spent as health secretary; and during my time as Health Secretary I also led the Scottish Government response to swine flu. And so it wasn't quite the same as COVID has turned out to be but in terms of that pandemic response and some of what has to be done and considered there, I had a bit of a grounding there so there's no doubt you know, not just in the COVID response and so much of what I do in my day to day work as First Minister, that grounding as Health Secretary, which has been really important to me and you know, the job I do just now is the most privileged job in the country but having been Health Secretary is always a job that will have a very special place in my heart.

Kate Arrow

I'm sure you've not had much time to reflect on the last few months yet, but sort of reflecting on it now, are there things that it's taught you about yourself and about your leadership style?

Nicola Sturgeon

Yeah, I think so. But as you say, I've not had the chance to process this sufficiently and hopefully one day I will and might be able to give you a more rounded answer than the one I'm about to give you right now. I think it showed me that possibly even more than I knew before, that I've got resilience and an ability to keep going through, you know, sort of tough times and, and focus very much on decisions that have to be taken there and then and try to do that in quite a methodical way. I suppose I've been reminded, as I so often was as Health Secretary of how the decisions I take, so often can only be taken with the input of lots of clinical and expert and scientific advice and that has been hugely important to me. So there is a need always to think about what it is that only I can do and decide, but what it is I need in order to base those decisions because I'm not a clinician, I'm not a scientist. And so, I'm very dependent on the advice that I get but recognising my responsibility to apply the judgement to that, and it's supposed to take the responsibility and the accountability for it as well. 

I suppose one of the things it has taught me though, in a way that nothing else in my political career has is that sometimes, all of what goes with politics and being a politician really doesn't matter. And all that matters right now is just trying to take the right decisions, as best you can, and the need to forget about whether they're popular or not or what they're going to mean, in an electoral sense, that kind of thing is and I, you know, if I turn the clock back six months or so, I may have never believed this would be the case, but that stuff just doesn't really matter in the day to day decision making. And I suppose that's been quite eye opening for somebody who's spent so long in politics in that more traditional sense.

Thomas Lamont  

A lot of people, following this, are really thinking about what's important in life aren’t they? 

Our final year Medical and Nursing students graduated early to support the service. They were as usual full of enthusiasm; across the workforce it is recognised that we all need to do more to prevent burnout and low morale. What advice would you give to people who have to step up into new or unfamiliar roles during sort of uncertain times like these?

Nicola Sturgeon

I would say a few things. Firstly, I want to take the opportunity while I have it just to say such a massive heartfelt thank you to people who did step up into these roles, graduating early taking on more responsibility than they would normally have done that early on in their careers. And, you know, we all owe everybody across health and care, but I think particularly people that position an enormous debt of gratitude. 

And before I go on to talk about what my advice would be to individuals I think one of the reflections I will take away from this, and as you know, as you said a moment ago, we've all been reassessing what really matters in life. And, you know, all of us, starting with politicians have to think about how we do value people working in our health service and our social care system. Do we value that enough in the support that is around them, and, frankly, that the financial rewards we give, and while there may be no overnight, immediate way of completely transforming all of that, you know, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that we've all been reminded of just how dependent we all are on people in these positions. 

I suppose my advice to individuals would be and you know, forgive me I'm, I've never been in that position. And you know, no matter what I have to do on a daily basis, it's not the same as stepping onto a busy hospital ward or into a care home or into an ICU Ward so I can’t pu...