W. Earl Brown

Intro: Dinosaurs, collaboration, chickens:roost
Let Me Run This By You: Teal Swan
Interview: We talk to W. Earl Brown about Deadwood, A View From the Bridge, Kentucky, family trauma, Dr. Bella Itkin, Don DePallo, Chris Farley, Wes Craven, David Milch, Gretchen Rennell, Leo Burmester, There's Something About Mary, It's Cold in Them Thar Hills, Hamlet, The Imaginary Invalid, That Championship Season, Amy Pietz, George Czarnecki, transcendence in the theater, Waltz of the Toreadors, Stanislavski, depression, Scream, John C. Reilly.
FULL TRANSCRIPT (unedited): 
2 (10s):
And I'm Gina Pulice.

1 (11s):
We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand.

2 (15s):
At 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.

1 (21s):
We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet? Oh my God. You get my name. Okay. So, okay. So

2 (37s):
Wait, wait, wait, hang on before you, I just want to say about dinosaurs. I have to give a shout out to somebody that I know. I, I, I know a man named Larry Greeley. Who's I'm not sure how old he is, but he's older than me by a lot. And he just decided one day that he was never going to stop keeping pace with technology because he did not want to be behind the times. And so he's one of these elderly people who you don't have to worry like, but do you have email? He stays on top of it. And also he stays on top of how the culture is changing and he, he adapts and that's like, I'm not saying that's easy to do, but it's so necessary.

2 (1m 22s):
And I'm

1 (1m 22s):
Grateful for people

2 (1m 24s):
Who, who don't become dinosaurs, but it go ahead.

1 (1m 27s):
No, that's exactly it. You, you choose and you and I talk about this all the time. Is it raining there?

2 (1m 36s):
No.

1 (1m 36s):
No. Oh, I hear, I hear tapping. Okay.

2 (1m 41s):
Hmm.

1 (1m 42s):
But it actually sounds really nice anyway.

2 (1m 45s):
Oh

1 (1m 45s):
Yeah. I kinda like it

2 (1m 46s):
Actually actually let me turn it off when I'm editing,

1 (1m 51s):
It sounds like the rain, but it's not, and you'll know, so, okay. And that'll know the shit out of you. Okay. So you said it and you know, to podcast listeners sometimes before the, the talking, we have a talk. And so I, we can say all the things in the names, but suffice it to say, we were just talking about how yes we do the work. It is hard work. It's hard when people call you on your shit. And when you, and when, or when I have to realize, oh, I am using terms that are offensive. And I am disconnecting from the people that I am are in my life. That is not okay with me. How do I adapt? It's very fucking hard. I've spent a lot of money and time in therapy, doing it for my own personal growth work about my family.

1 (2m 36s):
I've spent a lot of time with my husband doing it. It's not easy, but here's the thing. Like, I think it's the only way to live and to not feel obsolete and not feel left behind. So I like to say to like, you know, I know it's adapt or die, but for me, it's like collaborate or fucking die

2 (2m 56s):
A men speak on it. And I, I'm always so surprised that like in this field, which I just feel it's so obviously meant to be collaborative. Like I just don't know. What's the big surprise here. Y Y you know, I was saying to my husband, like why as the student, or as a school, go through all of the effort that it takes to go through this to ostensibly be able to snap into an ensemble, to a group, and then lead people to believe that they're alone in having graduated and not having success immediately or deciding, you know, you want to further refine what your idea is of being an artist.

2 (3m 43s):
I mean, there's absolutely, it's, it's, I'll go so far as to say it's unconscionable that the schools, would it set you up for that in such a way that you felt like you were because also PS, it's great PR for you as a school when everybody can say, oh, not only is it a great program, prestigious, whatever, but going there gives you entree into a community that's like robust and happening. And

1 (4m 10s):
Yeah. I mean, I think that what we have here is a re and we talk about this on the podcast, a reckoning, a forced reckoning, where you've got people saying, Hey, if you don't change you're out. But then the other part of that is how do we, or people in power positions or positions where they do sort of can implement change? How do you help people change? That is the, and you and I are therapists, former therapist. So we know the challenges of helping people change and we're fucking equipped.

1 (4m 51s):
And it's hard. So it is so hard because what they feel like is that they're going to die. If they have to change and a part of them will die, but, and it's really scary and nobody likes it. And I, you know, I will tell, and I've told this story before about my mom, you know, sitting with her, she could not access sadness. She could access anger, accessing sadness to her apparently was like admitting horrible things. Right. And that horrible things probably have been done to her and that she had done horrible things. So we're sitting at this restaurant crossroads on Chicago avenue after my dad died. And I just said to her, you look so sad and it no judgment.

1 (5m 34s):
I mean, I was sad. I was crying all the time. I said, you look so sad. I'm so sorry. And she slammed her glass down in front of everybody at the restaurant. And like almost broke. Thank God. It didn't break. She wouldn't hurt herself. And she said, I screamed almost. I think it was like almost a scream. I am not sad. I'm angry. And then walked out of the restaurant. And I thought, holy shit, this woman educated with it. Hip funny in therapy, all the things boats, right. To public, you know, like Democrat, like fucking, I cannot admit that. She said, how do we expect white, old men to admit that they are, that they need to change.

2 (6m 23s):
That, that at that time is over now and run a new time. I so appreciated what Dave does. Small Shan said in the video that you s...