Literally Jesus - an Interview with Jack Hopewell

In this episode, we interview Jack Hopewell, who stars as Jesus Christ in the 50th Anniversary Tour of Jesus Christ Superstar. 

When Jesus Christ Superstar came out 50 years ago, it was controversial: the musical doesn’t depict the resurrection, it's sympathetic to Judas, it takes the position of predestination (Judas was required to betray Jesus). While the controversy has died down in the last 50 years, some audience members still get their feathers ruffled. 

Jack Hopewell speaks with us about his Roman Catholic upbringing, how he brings humanity to the character of Jesus Christ, and the physical and mental toll of performing the Passion eight times a week. Jack also gives us an insider's look at how such an emotional and physical production is done consistently and impressively in theatres all across North America. 

Katie (our resident atheist and Broadway nerd) considers Jesus Christ Superstar to be one of her favourite musicals. What makes this musical accessible to religious and non-religious alike?

Whether you’re interested in theology or in a behind-the-scenes peek at what it’s like to be part of a major Broadway tour, this is an interview you don't want to miss.

You can watch the uncut video of this interview on YouTube

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Find Jack Hopewell on Instagram , YouTube, and his official website

Check out Jesus Christ Superstar on Instagram, YouTube, and their official website 

Transcript:

Preston Meyer  0:13  

Hi, Katie.  

Katie Dooley  0:14  

Hi, Preston. Happy New Year.  

Preston Meyer  0:16  

Happy New Year to you and to everybody. And happy new year to our special guest, Jack Hopewell.  

Jack Hopewell  0:24

Hey Happy to be here.  

Katie Dooley  0:26  

So on this episode of  

Both Hosts  0:29  

The Holy Watermelon Podcast

Preston Meyer  0:32  

It never really syncs up as well when we do it remotely. How did that sound to you, Jack?

Jack Hopewell  0:37  

Sounded great.  

Preston Meyer  0:39  

All right.

Katie Dooley  0:41  

Yeah. So we're joined by Jack Hopewell, which the musical theater nerd in me is way too excited for this. But Jack is playing Jesus Christ in the second national Broadway tour of the 50th anniversary of Jesus Christ Superstar.  

Jack Hopewell  0:57  

You folks saw me I think it was Edmonton or...

Katie Dooley  0:59  

I saw you in Edmonton on opening night. Yeah.  

Jack Hopewell  1:02  

That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. Good stuff.  

Preston Meyer  1:05  

I must admit, I'm not as big of a musical theater nerd as Katie is, but I do enjoy musicals. And when I went through the list of projects you've done, I was actually really quite surprised and pleased to see that you had played Snoopy a little while ago.  

Jack Hopewell  1:19  

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Big, big fan of You're Good Man, Charlie Brown. My two my two type casts God and then off the walls like animal. So Snoopy? Yeah. It works.  

Preston Meyer  1:34  

Rock on.  

Jack Hopewell  1:36  

Thanks. Thank you. Thank you.  

Katie Dooley  1:37  

That's awesome. So I mean, we start with all our podcasts and all our guests asking what your religious background is. What you were raised? What are you now? Because that will influence some of the questions we ask today.  

Jack Hopewell  1:49  

Yeah, absolutely. So I was raised Roman Catholic, I was born. Not all my family's Roman Catholic. But my my mom's side is, but a fun little fact. My, my grandfather was a Catholic priest, at one point. My grandmother was a Catholic nun, at one point. They left that service before meeting each other, I have to give that disclaimer, but they felt they were called to raise a family. So my, and my grandfather disagreed with some policies of Rome at the time. And so he received his papal dispensation had my had my mother, with my grandma. And, yeah, so I was raised Roman Catholic, I wouldn't say that I'm super practicing Roman Catholic, I still consider myself a Catholic, but more of a like salad bar Catholic, in which I pick and choose some of my beliefs and some of my attitudes. So yeah, that's, that's that's how I'd classify myself now as a as a semi-practicing Catholic with some disagreements towards the church, in certain areas.

Preston Meyer  2:57

I like that metaphor of the salad bar.  

Jack Hopewell  3:00

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Katie Dooley  3:04

I mean, I think most people are probably followed by religious.  

Jack Hopewell  3:07

Yes. Right. Right.  

Preston Meyer  3:09  

Generally speaking, belief is a tricky thing, though. Sometimes we, we feel like we just can't believe a thing that's presented to us. And sometimes, it's helpful to just hold on to the bigger thing while letting go of the little thing that we don't agree with. I think that's a healthy choice.

Jack Hopewell  3:31  

Thank you. Thank you.

Katie Dooley  3:33  

As you mentioned, you've played Jesus more than once. In this tour. Is there something I mean, now, you've told us you're Roman Catholic? Is there something about Jesus or the story that draws you to these roles?

Jack Hopewell  3:45  

Yeah, I mean, it's, it's in the simplest way, it's really it's really magnanimous, it's a magnanimous character. It's it's Jesus. You know, I mean, a simple answer is, I just keep getting cast. As Jesus, I, I was not surprisingly, seeking this, this tour out, I, it just kind of the, I ended up going to an audition. And this, you know, kind of ended up happening for me, but at the same time, I, I think, really what draws me to to play, Jesus is fleshing out and discovering his humanity. Because at the end of the day, even in looking at the Gospels, and in the really Biblical sense of Jesus, aside from being a god, he is human. And I just think it's fascinating to be able to play somebody whose personhood and godhood are almost diametrically opposed in that way. So it presents a challenge, and it's also really fulfilling at the same time.  

Preston Meyer  4:46  

So what would be your key to meeting both of those points together?

Jack Hopewell  4:50  

I mean, I find the more that I play the humanity the the godhood in playing Jesus, the godhood kind of presents itself. Because I think the more you know, the more human Jesus seems the more the more magnanimous his actions seem to be, I guess, if that makes sense. While he's, you know, in pain on the cross, fearful for his life and dying, you kind of take a step back and go, Oh, wow, he's sacrificing himself for us. So yeah, I guess that's, that's the way that I would try to make those to meet.

Preston Meyer  5:30

I like it.  

Thank you. Thank you.

Katie Dooley  5:33  

How does your How does being Roman Catholic affect how you approach the last days of Jesus?

Jack Hopewell  5:39  

Yeah, I mean, going back to the previous point, I think it motivates me to think about him playing in more than just the strictly Biblical sense. Because I was raised, I went to Catholic school for a bit. And I think a lot of people just have this notion of who Jesus is. And I feel while while they while people can feel really connected to the idea of the godly savior, Jesus, I think there's still a disconnect from who he really truly was. Which is a person, which is a human being as much as he was the son of God. So, yeah, I think thinking about my Catholic upbringing, really makes me wants to play into his humanity and his fears, his doubts. And, you know, it really, it helps me appreciate certain moments, a lot more, I think, like his, like his crucifixion, like his pleas in the Garden of Gethsemane. I mean, there's really, really big moments in which he has his doubts, which I think a lot of people gloss over. Even even Catholics or really religious people. And the the final text in in the show is is pretty accurate to the end of most of the Gospels in his seven phrases that he has, while he's dying on the cross. One of those being, you know, my God, why have you forsaken me? Or it's sometimes another, it's why have you forgotten me? Why have you abandoned me? It's like a rough transliteration from the Aramaic. But yeah, it's moments like that, where I'm like, Wow, I feel like these are really glossed over, even in Bible study. And I want to play into this, I want to play into his humanity and his flaws and his doubts. So, yeah,  

Preston Meyer  7:35  

So has the musical influenced your relationship with your faith at all?

Jack Hopewell  7:41  

Um,

Preston Meyer  7:43  

Or maybe even any other times you've played? Jesus? Let's open it up just a little bit more.  

Jack Hopewell  7:48  

Yeah, um, I guess, it's, I think beforehand, the idea of Christ was a bit more intangible for me. I think, especially, again, going back to being in Catholic school, you're just given this, like, you're just looking at this statue, this figure on a cross, this icon, and it's hard, as much as you're told to appreciate this sacrifice, and this you know, his actions and all that it's hard to truly appreciate it when you feel so disconnected from this iconography, I guess. And doing the show, and connecting with the humanity has really, I think, helped me connect with Jesus himself as a person, but also his message. His messages throughout the gospel of compassion, and forgiveness and love for one another at its base, you know, all of his all of his Beatitudes, I think, I've connected a lot more with that, because I can relate to it a bit more. It's coming from an actual figure, and actual person as opposed to this figure. So, yeah

Preston Meyer  9:07  

You didn't use different words, but I know what you mean.

Jack Hopewell  9:13  

This figure as opposed to this figure, yeah, right.  

Katie Dooley  9:16  

For our listeners. He's making arm gestures because the visual medium.

Jack Hopewell  9:23  

Forgot about that.  

Katie Dooley  9:23  

I know. We do that sometimes. Descriptive Video, right. Or Yeah,  right. How's the reception been to you playing Jesus from friends family?  

Jack Hopewell  9:36  

I mean, are you are you wondering from an audience a general audience perspective as well?  

Katie Dooley  9:39  

Or even? Yeah, yeah all of the above.

Jack Hopewell  9:42  

I mean, with family, it's been pretty positive. So far, a lot of them haven't seen it yet. And I'm a bit concerned for some of my more conservative family members. Because it's a bit of a bit of a progressive take on on the gospel. But that being said, family wise it's been, it's been positive. And audience wise, I'd say 95 to 99% of audiences have agreed with it. It's always been a controversial musical part, because there's a lot of reasons. But one of those big reasons is there's no resurrection depicted at the end of the show. And some Christians take great offense to that, because they feel that that is what this whole story is building up to. When really, I think it's a story about humanity. It's a story about the relationship between Jesus and Judas and two men that are, have everyone's best interests at heart, but are diametrically opposed in how they proceed with those goals. And so there have been some upset people, production does get some letters, here and there, about, you know, of them being upset about the resurrection, or about the way in which I'm crucified sometimes or, you know, things of that nature. But I'd say for the most part, people are really, really touched by this show, there really moved people that people of the faith and people that are not religious, they have seen lots of people from both sides of that coin moved to tears at the end of the show. It's it's very emotional, regardless of your religious beliefs, watching a man be crucified and sacrifice himself. It's, it's, it's a lot to take in. And I think, especially for those that are Christian and have those beliefs. It's, it's really visceral for them. And they're, they're very emotional by the end of it. And lots of them are, you know, you know, at the stage door in tears, like, Thank you. Thank you for this. That's, it's really sweet. It's really, it's really nice to see,  

Katie Dooley  12:03  

My mom didn't watch from 39 lashes onward.  

Jack Hopewell  12:06  

Oh!

Katie Dooley  12:08  

She was llike, I just looked around, and I was like, that's fine.  

Jack Hopewell  12:11  

Yeah. Was it was that more of a, like, not wanting to see the, the blood and everything else  

Katie Dooley  12:19  

Yeah neither of us like gore. And then she told me that you it's weird dreams when she's like about things in general. She was like, yeah, it wasn't gonna dream about that. I was like, that's fair.  

Jack Hopewell  12:30  

That's fair. I get it.

Preston Meyer  12:34  

I can appreciate the choice to not show the resurrection, in addition to keeping it more of a story of a man instead of a story of a god, that makes some sense. But also, Judas's experienced, according to the Gospels doesn't include any resurrection experience.  

Jack Hopewell  12:50  

Right.

Preston Meyer  12:50  

So it's just if it's more of a Judas story than a Peter story, that seems like a natural choice.  

Jack Hopewell  12:56  

Oh, and it is. And I, I'd say a lot of people, This story follows Judas even more as a as a protagonist, than I think it follows Jesus. And I love that, personally, and I may get people that disagree with me on this. But I do think that the traditional telling of the Judas story is a little bit a little too black and white. I don't I think people are more complex than that. And I think this show does a really beautiful job of portraying Judas as a man who has the right intentions but makes some mistakes along the way. And if you're going with the idea of predestination on certain things, I mean, there really wasn't a way for him to avoid doing what he was doing. He was destined and fated to do this. And I think the show asks that question, is that fair? Did he have the choice to do this? So  

Preston Meyer  13:52  

It's one of the great questions. There are some interpretations of the scripture that actually have Judas kind of not loving the position he's put in, as Jesus tells him, Hey, this is the role you're going to play. It's rough.  

Jack Hopewell  14:08  

Right? Well, and there's the question also, I've got I got into a heated discussion with somebody today about this, actually, whether or not Judas knew what was going to happen to Jesus when he turned him in. Because, at least in the show, and my personal interpretation, I don't think that Judas thought that Jesus was going to be murdered, murdered. I think, you know, talking to the to the priests, and everybody else, I think he was under the impression that Jesus is going to be turned in, removed from the public eye. Things are going to settle down a little bit. And because I think, at least in the show, Judas is very fearful of the mob rising up and becoming out of control. And then his people being oppressed even further by the Romans as a result. And so I think he thought it was in everybody's best interest. And also Jesus's best interest is worried about his health and safety, to remove him from the public eye, remove him as this icon. And I think he thought getting Jesus arrested was the solution to that. But then it gets out of control. He's beaten within an inch of his life and then crucified. And he, Judas, out of guilt, out of anger, out of rage out of all sorts of emotions, eventually takes his own life. So,  Katie Dooley  15:33  

I mean, it's not a happy story.

Jack Hopewell  15:35  

No, it's not by any stretch of the imagination is not but...  

Preston Meyer  15:40  

It's hard to imagine that with the relationship, they must have had, that Judas would have knowingly sent Jesus to his death.  

Jack Hopewell  15:48  

Right? That's what I that's, that's what I that's what I, what I feel what I believe, and I've had some people, because I think it's a somewhat traditional Christian, you know, education to be told though, Judas knew what he was doing. And he did this out of greed. And then he took his own life, because he felt guilt. He just felt guilt for what he did. And he realized what he did. But Judas is this evil character. And there's not really any redeeming qualities given about him. And I don't even think that's how Jesus would have wanted Judas to be remembered or recognized. So

Preston Meyer  16:27  

Yeah, the, the whole thing about Jesus that we get from the Gospels is that he's a loving, forgiving fella

Jack Hopewell  16:34  

Right?

Preston Meyer  16:37  

A moment of weakness like this is something relatively easy to forgive when you have a greater perspective.  

Jack Hopewell  16:42  

Exactly.

Katie Dooley  16:44  

While we're on the topic of the ending, other actors have spoken about how difficult it can be to get into a character, you know, read articles about playing Evan Hanson is very difficult. Is it difficult physically, mentally, to be crucified eight times a week or get lashed? Eight times 39 times  

Jack Hopewell  17:04  

1000, 1000%? It's yeah, it's not it's no easy task. I think. I mean, there's a lot of preparation for me that goes into it and doing all the things you should do hydrating, eating properly, and doing my little warm up before the show, in order to prepare my body and mind for the thing. But I think the most important for me is finding moments of levity and happiness throughout the show. You talk to other people backstage and I'm usually doing my best to you know, even as I'm being covered in blood and dirt and sweat and boot prints backstage before I come on for the lashes I'm dancin, I'm doing little dances with people getting getting prepped up. And then at the very last moment, I compose myself I take my Chekov breath, my get into my you know, hunched over, beaten, wounded position. And that is what I that is all I need to be able to get into that mind space. And then I go on with the lashes and the crucifixion and it's really physically and mentally taxing, but I've had those moments of happiness beforehand that I can hold on to and then immediately come back after but come back to afterwards. So  

Katie Dooley  18:29  

Awesome. And any like post show ritual besides shower? 

Jack Hopewell  18:34  

Yeah, I mean, the shower is honestly a big part of it, because I, I get that shower so hot that it like hurts. It is like steaming, and that just decompresses me so much. But then afterwards, now with the rest of the cast, I don't speak much and I don't drink or any of that. But, you know, if we're out I might be dancing in a corner doing a little doing a little jig silently. And if not that I usually decompress with some tea and a show. So, yeah, just kind of wind down for the night.

Katie Dooley  19:14  

It must be super tiring to live.

Jack Hopewell  19:17  

It's exhausting. It's exhausting. Yeah, and the travel is hard on top of it, you know, being in a different place all the time. But, but it's also fun. And I could do it while I'm young.

Katie Dooley  19:29  

I mean, yeah, that's the time to do it.  

Jack Hopewell  19:31  

Right. Exactly.  

Katie Dooley  19:33  

How much do those lashes suck?  

He doesn't. It's just glitter.  

Jack Hopewell  19:38  

Yeah, so I mean, it's still it's  

Preston Meyer  19:40  

But it's glitter.  

Jack Hopewell  19:41  

Yeah, right?  

Katie Dooley  19:42  

Have you gotten glitter in your eye? I was deeply concerned.

Jack Hopewell  19:46  

Yeah, yeah. All the time. In my mouth sometimes. Doing studies on like, microplastics in blood like I'm going to be I'm going to be like a shining example in in 20 years or so, but I yeah, I mean, it gets all over me. And I'm very safe the whole time. I never feel like I'm in danger or really in pain. But it is, it is an interesting position for me to be in to, like, have my arms over my, over my head and, you know, held on to buy a cable and be lashed and then have to physically react as though I'm being hit with with an actual whip. So it's uncomfortable, for sure. And I feel such a relief when I'm finally able to like fall and collapse to the ground.

Katie Dooley  20:37  

So that's real, that's not acting.

Jack Hopewell  20:39  

Oh, that's, that's 100% real. That's hardly, that's hardly acting at all. But I'm crawling across the stage. It's because I am. I'm beat I am beat. But yeah,  

Preston Meyer  20:51  

It's work to pretend that you're taking an injury?  

Jack Hopewell  20:54  

Oh, yeah. Well, because the whole the whole time. And this is, you know, something I learned, people that are in pain, your muscles are contracting, your muscles are contracting that whole time. And for me, a lot of that presents itself and me like doing a crunch, essentially, that entire time. And so I'm just doing a whole ab workout. And seeing, you know, thrown around and I can I can barely breathe by the end of it. So yeah,

Preston Meyer  21:23  

So you don't even need to hit the gym.

Jack Hopewell  21:26  

No exactly, exactly.

Katie Dooley  21:27  

I think how physical acting is. Especially when you're laying there. And you're like, This is amazing. And you just kind of get engrossed for 90 minutes.  

Jack Hopewell  21:37  

Right?  

Katie Dooley  21:37  

Then you're like, oh, wait, someone just did that. That's why I like theatre so much is like, you just did that for me! Great.  

Jack Hopewell  21:45  

Right. Well, yeah, thank you for saying that. Because it is. It's interesting. This roles really interesting to me because I was joking with somebody like it's it's a rock show. And like a rock concert until it's not. And I describe that, as it's, yeah, it's until it's really not. And for me that presents itself in very much like a vocal and, and acting show into a very physical show. And so, yeah, it's a fun challenge.  

Katie Dooley  22:18  

I was sitting with some ladies and they had no idea. They were like, we just like bought tickets to this. I was like, hold on to your butt because you're in, for a ride.

Jack Hopewell  22:29  

Yeah, the people that don't do that don't know anything about the show. Don't do research about the show beforehand. So that's wild to me. And that's those are some of the people that do get upset, I think, because they have an idea of what the show's gonna be about, because of its name. And then they that doesn't live up to their expectations. So they're a little bit disappointed by that. But yeah, that's it's always for the most part, though, it is really exciting. When the when those people have no idea what's going to happen. And they don't know anything about the show. When they see it. They're like, whoa, that's so cool. Yeah,  

Katie Dooley  23:05  

Sorry, back to the physical stuff. Do you have any battle stories? Any? Come on.  

Jack Hopewell  23:11  

Um, I mean, I do have a couple wounds here and there. I sometimes when I'm taking my post-show shower, I'll go to like, wipe off a bruise. And I'm like, oh, that's real. That's that's not makeup. That's or that's real blood. That's fun. I don't know how that doesn't happen all that much more the bruising than anything else. I guess it's you know, it's very physical show but I there was one time that our an understudy went on for our mob leader. So our original mob leader, I'm not sure who you saw that you were there but is Caroline Perry,

Katie Dooley  23:57  

Phenomenal, best I've ever seen.

Jack Hopewell  23:59  

Fantastic, incredible. And her the mob leader understudy Haley Huelsman, also an incredible, incredible dancer. And she she does such justice to the role but it was one of the first times she was on, and she's the one lashing me. If anyone lashes you it's very, I just love the idea that you know, the mob leader the leader of the mob is is the one lashing me It's so essentially all of these people are inflicting this pain upon me, but she's doing this for the first time and throwing so much glitter. Because it takes practice to know how much glitter you're supposed to throw on to me. And so she's just throwing massive handfuls on me and it's getting everywhere. It's getting all over me getting all over the stage. And that glitter when mixed with like, random precipitation from like the haze and then my blood that I'm just like, trailing everywhere. And everything else on that stage it is a slippery slippery mess. So the poor ensembles trying to do like dance this crazy, crazy number. They're, like, kind of slipping and sliding everywhere. I'm trying to crawl across the stage. And then I'm like, Whoa, you know, doing that whole thing. We're doing the flight where I'm being thrown around. And I'm genuinely just like, Spider Man slipping and sliding all over the place. So yeah, that was a fun time.

Spider Man musical. There's some real danger.  Yeah, right. Oh, true. Talk about talking about curse shows. Turn Off the Dark.

Preston Meyer  25:47  

Yeah. A little different. But so the very real danger for Jesus too

Jack Hopewell  25:54  

Right? Oh, go ahead.

Preston Meyer  25:57  

Sorry. Go ahead. No, I interrupted you

Jack Hopewell  25:58  

I think I have I have to say I've never once felt unsafe in the show. And our, our stage management team and all of our technical team do a fantastic job of making sure all of us are, like never in any danger. So never had truly any like Spiderman Turn Off The Dark moments. But

Preston Meyer  26:19  

Do you have a favorite song? Not necessarily one that you sing? Or maybe it is one that you sing?  

Jack Hopewell  26:25  

Yeah. It's hard for me to pick, I'd say if I can give you two answers in terms of ones I sing. There's a bit of a love hate relationship with it. But I love Gethsemane because it's Thank you. It's I so much of the show for me is is being the bigger person and the not revealing this grander plan that God and myself have for humanity. And some of that frustration comes out during the Last Supper and my argument with Judas. But finally, somebody has that moment where I'm able to really question God, why are you making me do this? There's most certainly another way for us to accomplish this. And you're giving me absolutely nothing. And so vocally it's it's, it's, it's a beast, but it's fun to sing. And it is an emotional roller coaster, acting wise and, like I've said a million times. It really showcases Jesus's humanity in his doubt of God, and himself and this grand plan. And then second answer, songs I don't sing Superstar. I love Superstar. It's I'm being thrown around the whole time. But Elvie Ellis plays Judas is incredible, he's just got one of the best voices I've ever heard. And he's singing the crap out of that song. And the whole ensemble is dancing for their lives. And it really feels like the number that this whole show has been building towards. And for me, it's terrifying. Because this mob that was you know, half an hour ago, singing my praises is now hell bent on destroying me. And the choreography and the way it staged really shows that and it it. It's it's really a song. I feel like in part about the birth of zealotry and fanatical faith around Jesus as they're putting me up on the cross. So yeah, I love it.  

Katie Dooley  28:46  

Speaking of speaking of Gethsemane I was my parents went on Saturday, which is also really cool because my parents are 70. So my parents saw it 50 years ago. 

Jack Hopewell  28:57  

Oh, that's awesome.  

Katie Dooley  28:58  

My mom saw the first international tour in Denmark.  

Jack Hopewell  29:02  

That's awesome

Katie Dooley  29:03  

Of all places. So yeah, they went on the Saturday. And then I had dinner with my parents and my dad had been like, singing it all week. And my mom was like, "You got to stop him". And I was like, No, we're gonna listen to the soundtrack instead. And we listened to the 1996 West End version and my dad was  

Jack Hopewell  29:20  

with Steve Balsamo right.

Katie Dooley  29:22  

But my dad was like, they were better on the weekend.

Jack Hopewell  29:26  

Awe! That's, that's one of my favorite versions too. So that's That's high praise. That's super sweet.  

Katie Dooley  29:34  

I mean, he's as much of a theater critic as I can be. But I'll pass it along um,

Jack Hopewell  29:39  

thank you. Thank you.  

Katie Dooley  29:41  

We talked a little bit about you getting the complaints concerns about there being no resurrection we know when it came out in the 70s. It was super controversial. I think a lot of that was partially how they portrayed Judas. What do you think Jesus Christ Superstar means to audiences today, 50 years later?

Jack Hopewell  30:01  

I mean, I think, at least for Christians, I think people are a lot more willing today to accept a more nuanced interpretation of the gospel than they were 50 years ago. I think people are less beholden to strict doctrine. And like, rote biblical beliefs, and they were half a century ago. So I think, I think a modern version of the show is, it really speaks to people. I think people really resonate not just with the style that the show is put on, you're reimagined for our modern era. Because as a side tangent, I think some people get a little disconnected from the some of the productions where it's, you know, set in Nazareth, and it's like period clothing and things like that. So I think people are able to connect with the modern staging and telling of it, but also, I think it's, I think it's moving for people and people connect with it, because it's nuanced. And like I said, before, people are less beholden to strict doctrine. So yeah,  

Preston Meyer  31:17  

So the one that I've seen most recently had Tim Minchin playing Judas.  

Jack Hopewell  31:22  

Yep.

Preston Meyer  31:23  

Pretty famously atheist.  

Jack Hopewell  31:25  

Yeah. The stadium tour, I think.

Preston Meyer  31:27  

Yeah. And is there a nice variety of believers and non believers in the current cast?  

Jack Hopewell  31:34  

Most definitely. Yeah. There's, there's a fair number of Christians in the show. There's a number of Buddhists in the show, atheists, agnostics all over the place. So there's a wide, I'd say, a wide range of beliefs in in the cast.  

Preston Meyer  31:52  

Cool. Does that come into play in the way you interact with each other at all?

Jack Hopewell  31:57  

Yeah, I, I think so at the top of the show, some of us will have, you can frame it, we have an open invitation could frame it as a prayer or just like a breathing circle, to get ready for the show, be together, and have this almost spiritual connection with each other before we go on this 90 minute marathon. And I I think, regardless of your of the person's belief systems, they can connect with this human story that's taking place they can, they can connect with the community that's forming on the stage, whether that's around this man, Jesus Christ in supporting him or suddenly not supporting him. So I think regardless, the show's been really, really great in helping us form a really diverse community among cast.

Katie Dooley  33:05  

So, to that point, and this is something I really wondered about a lot is that the arts have always been a really inclusive space. So how do how is it playing in a musical in a religion that's been exclusionary? Historically?  

Jack Hopewell  33:20  

Yeah. Well, I think, going back to the idea of doctrine, I think Christianity at its core is not an exclusionary, prac-, an exclusionary religion, I think what's been exclusionary has been organized religion, that's, it's always been the case that you know, what you'd take, these people will take the faith in its purest form, and then create an aristocracy around it, and then push people out, control people with it, and when, and that just completely forgets Jesus's original teachings. And I think that's part of the why part of the reason I've been somewhat disillusion from organized religion, and more, so just leaned back on what I believe Christian faith is. So I guess, to your to your question about, you know, inclusivity, and art and then inclusivity, and religion, I think, because this is more of a nondenominational show, in terms of its telling of the Gospels. I think it works really well in terms of inclusivity because it's, it's teaching those original, those original Gospel teachings, and it's incorporating some really high art at the same time. So,

Preston Meyer  34:42  

yeah. A lot of people really like making rules for other people.

Jack Hopewell  34:47  

Yeah.

Preston Meyer  34:48  

And I think the closest that Andrew Lloyd Webber gets in this, apart from showing the Pharisees being just awful occasionally, is writing a script, which you kind of need for a play anyway, but in doing so he remembers that Jesus wants people to love each other. That's the number one rule.  

Jack Hopewell  35:07  

Right?  

Preston Meyer  35:08  

Easy enough to get on board with.  Exactly, exactly. And I think people forget. I don't think, I know people forget that when Jesus preaches love for your neighbor. That means everyone that not like your as soon as you start saying, or using religion to exclude a set of people, because you don't think that they agree with your way of living or the your fundamental beliefs and you've you've, yeah you've lost the faith. So, yeah,  

Katie Dooley  35:44  

I saw great posts on Instagram, on our Holy Watermelon Instagram said, Jesus said, Love your neighbor, not love your religion.

Jack Hopewell  35:51  

Ding ding ding.

Katie Dooley  35:54  

I mean, art and theater are always pushing boundaries. And Jesus Christ Superstar has always been a modern interpretation.  

Jack Hopewell  36:00  

For sure,  

Katie Dooley  36:00  

Even  50 years ago, do you think this like super modern version is helping introduce it to new audiences? And does it allow you to push boundaries even further?

Jack Hopewell  36:12  

Absolutely. I mean, I spoke about that a little bit previously, I think people are able to connect with the non-period version of the show a little bit better. Because I think, at least for me, sometimes or for audiences, sometimes it's hard to make connections to modern life with something that is rigidly set in a in a pure time period. That's so far back, it's easier to kind of make parallels and connections with something that feels more modern. And so this, this ancient story that is still very applicable today is now reskined a bit, and people can connect with it a little bit more. And it does allow us to push boundaries a little bit. I mean, there I don't want to say pop culture references almost in it. But I think, you know, in certain numbers, there's, I think of Herod's number, for example, which is done in drag. And that's not, I don't think something that you would be able to do 50 years ago, let alone with, with a classical telling or interpretation of Jesus Christ Superstar. And so I really, I really appreciate how the show is able to do things like that, and push boundaries in that way, have all sorts of different characters. So, yeah, 

Preston Meyer  37:45  

So we're all young enough that we can hope to be around for the 100th anniversary tour, do you think that some of the language might end up being adjusted?  

Jack Hopewell  37:55  

Interesting. I mean, it's, it's very possible, the language is the language and the lyrics have adapted since 50 years ago, not by a lot, because I gotta be honest what Tim Rice wrote, for the show is incredible. It's so good, it's some of the best him and Andrew Lloyd Webber produced some of the best source material anybody could ask for. But it's adapted a little bit, make it mesh a little bit more. Lyrically, and, and for for performance. So I think there might be minor adjustments a little bit, but I don't think at the end of the day, it's going to be anything too wild, it's just going to be similar to 50 years ago, a word change here and there, you know, for example, 50 years ago, and in Gethsemane the line was, God thy Will is hard, but you hold every card, and now it's God, thy will be done. Take your only son. So I think it's an improvement. So I think I think it'll be I think the language won't stray too much from its original message, but I think there'll be there'll be lyrical changes here and there. So  

Preston Meyer  39:03  

You don't think we'll ever get rid of the thees and thys?

Jack Hopewell  39:07  

I don't think so. I don't think so. Although, I'm trying to think because that's it. I've never really thought about that until you brought that up. That's that's, I think the only time that a thy or thou is ever used in the show, because a lot of the a lot of the language is so is so contemporary. So but I think that's really cool that that moment has that in that more archaic biblical language because in that moment, Jesus is assuming his role. And you see this in the production he I go from having a man bun and this like very this bomber jacket and high top sneakers to a robe and sandals. My hair's a little bit more down to eventually my hair is down and I have fully assumed this Jesus role. And I think that that is I think that that thy is is probably important in assuming that. So

Preston Meyer  40:06  

I think it fits with the image pretty well.

Jack Hopewell  40:08  

Yeah, I think so too.  

Katie Dooley  40:09  

I also noticed that Judas doesn't call it a concubine anymore.

Jack Hopewell  40:15  

Yeah. Yes. Because originally the you're probably thinking of the '96 version of the Yeah, great. It's a great version. The originally the line was that a man like you could waste his time on women of her kind. '96 they changed it to man, like, you could waste his time on such a concubine. Now it has now it's back to women of her kind. And I feel like that's, for me at least, like concubine is definitely biting. But it's the women of her kind. So Oh, that's such a biting phrase. Another change that I am so happy for Ciaphas has a line during this Jesus must die. "One thing I'll say for him, Jesus is cool". Which is us? It's so it's so corny. And the best way like it just fits the tone of that song so well, and they changed it. I think in the 96 version, it's infantile servants the multitude grows or something along those lines. But are the multitude drools something along something along those lines, but it's back to one thing I'll say for him, Jesus is cool. Which I am so happy for.

Katie Dooley  41:35  

Yeah, that I mean, that is pretty modern language.  

Jack Hopewell  41:39  

So good. So good.  

Katie Dooley  41:42  

In one of our very first episodes, we talked about pop culture as religion, or it's called para-religion where people get so into their thing that it could be considered worship. What are you super, super nerdy about?

Jack Hopewell  41:56  

That's a good question. Um, I am very much a sci-fi nerd. Also fantasy nerd. But I really nerd about nerd out about sci fi, particularly the Dune series. That's always been a big like Frank Herbert's Dune has always been very big. Ever since I was young. My parents introduced me to that. And I, I just, I just really have loved the Dune books. I love the movie that came out. I thought it was I thought it was a really good interpretation of the books. But yeah, I just think it's, it's held up so well. And in terms of discussions about religion, ecology, about colonialism, and all sorts of other themes. I think it's just a really, really solid series.  

Katie Dooley  42:46  

Yeah.

Preston Meyer  42:47  

And good reasons to like it.

Jack Hopewell  42:49  

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I even one of my tattoos is of the desert mouse. From that series. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it's it's, it's it's solid. It I think it I think it's I think it's a book that most people should should read. I think it's more topical today than it was back in the 50s when it came out. So.  

Katie Dooley  43:09  

Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Yeah. The movie was good. I'm excited for the second half of that. Yeah.

Preston Meyer  43:15  

I really enjoyed it. I think that picked a weird place to break it relative to the way they've broken it before, but just feel good.  

Jack Hopewell  43:21  

Yeah. I'm um I yeah, right. Where it ends right after the sorry, spoilers for anybody who hasn't seen it, but it came out month's ago it's what Yeah, where it ended right after the duel with Jamis. I was, I was like, little little bit of whiplash there. But yeah,  

Katie Dooley  43:41  

I'm excited for the next one, be some of our listeners. And I also want to know what, what your day in the life of a Broadway superstar is, like.  

Jack Hopewell  43:50  

It's not always super exciting. I have to say, at least for myself, I've been working on it, my sleep schedule is terrible. So it's been a lot of getting up at like 11. And eventually getting out of bed by like, 1130, maybe getting brunch by that point. And then a lot of the time, especially when we're in a new city, our cast mates and our crew will, will go out and explore things, whether that's a restaurant, or we go to a museum, or a zoo, or go on a hike or something like that. We try to do that a lot of the time. And then it's I should preface this with saying I'm usually warming up throughout the day for this show, vocally. But then about two hours before the show I'm doing a more intensive warm up and usually steaming my voice voice with a with a personal steamer. And then by 45 minutes before the show. I'm at the theater. I do a fight call for that massive fight at the end I'll do a lift call sometimes if we're in a new city where the ensemble practices lifting me in the new space. And then half hour to show I get my costume, get my makeup put on somebody comes does my hair and that super tight man bun and then by 15 before show, I'm usually ready to go get myself psyched up might have a little bit of an energy drink right before going on. And then that's done. We'll come back from the hotel, and then or from the show to the hotel. Sometimes I'll get dressed up to go out, but usually I'm just like staying in sweats or something like that, and maybe going out, get something to eat. Or sitting with friends watching a movie, and then eventually falling asleep. The wee small hours of the morning. So yeah,

Katie Dooley  45:46  

I'm sorry, the weather was so shitty here because Edmonton's actually it's pretty cool.

Jack Hopewell  45:50  

It's okay, I had a blast exploring it. And I love the snow. I won't lie, it was freezing. But but I had a blast like walking around in the snow and finding things. I had some great food, had some great food. And I went to the we went to the West Edmonton Mall that was wild, the biggest mall I've ever been to, put like every American mall to shame  

Katie Dooley  46:18  

It used to be the biggest mall in the world. And then China built like four that were

Jack Hopewell  46:21  

Gotcha. Gotcha. I believe it. I was like there is a whole waterpark in here. There's a there's but it's a really well designed mall too. Because it I was like, Oh, I feel like I'm gonna get overwhelmed very easily. Because I do get overwhelmed in malls. And I wasn't overwhelmed. And it felt very manageable and walkable for as big of a mall as it was. So that was cool.

Katie Dooley  46:45  

Well, that's good because it was balls cold when you were here, and it's balls cold now.

Jack Hopewell  46:51  

I still had the I still had the weather widget for Edmonton brought up and I saw negative negative 11 this morning. And I was like, okay, that's Fahrenheit. It's  yeah, it's Fahrenheit. Sorry. Yeah.  

Katie Dooley  47:03  

Yeah, it's minus 25. Today, I think

Preston Meyer  47:07  

it's a cold one.

Katie Dooley  47:10  

Yeah, that's awesome. I can't imagine living on that sleep schedule, because I'm a morning person, even like going to the show and it ending at. What time did it start? It started at eight and ending at 930. I was like, this is past my bed time.

Jack Hopewell  47:21  

Yeah. Right? A lot of us like the night's young after that show. So sometimes, I will just like go and pass out. If it's like been a really long week, but usually on like two show days, I'm like, Okay, I'm not. I'm not not going out after this. But yeah.

Preston Meyer  47:41  

Yeah, I'm more of a night owl. The schedule works for me. So is there any part of the show that you find to be a real challenge to do consistently night after night?

Jack Hopewell  47:56  

Yeah, I mean, crucifixion, it's really hard, emotionally. And I have to, I have to be careful not to get myself into a place where I, you know, am really methoding it and believing that I am actually, you know, dying. Because that's not a safe place to live in. But even, you know, using different training methods and I mentioned, Chekov breathing before, like, I, I'm a big fan of Michael Chekhov, and his psychological gestures, in terms of acting technique, and using that kind of breathing and physicality helps me to feel those emotions, but not sink too deep into them that I like, can't get back out of it when I need to. So that's helped a lot. But it's still really difficult. Because it's to, to breathe like that, and to contort my body like that and to scream in agony like that. While I found a way to be sustainable with it, it, it takes a lot out of me. And it's hard. And it's it's agonizing, sometimes emotionally, to be crying out for my mother and to be asking why I've been forsaken, and all of that, but so I'd say that's probably one of the more difficult things to do night after night. But thankfully, I'm navigating it in a way that I think, is keeping me safe emotionally. So  

Preston Meyer  49:29  

That's important.  

Jack Hopewell  49:30  

Thank you. Yeah, I think so too.  

Katie Dooley  49:32  

Could you explain the Chekov breathing techniques for people who don't know? Because I don't?  

Jack Hopewell  49:36  

Yeah, yeah. So Michael Chekov is a is an acting teacher and has the Chekov philosophy from a la-- I think he's one of the original Stanislavski students. So a lot of it is rooted in Stanislavski and using your own experiences to inform your your acting but for Chekov specifically, and this is different. Michael Chekhov, I should say is different from Anton Chekhov and the you know, all of that that playwright but it a lot of it has to do with physicality and the way you breathe. And it's the idea that if you assume the physicality, or the breath of the character that you are portraying, that will help inform your emotions. And your not only your physical response, but your emotional response to it. So there's psychological gestures that Chekov talks about in his book. And those, those can help portray different different actions and ways you're trying to communicate with people or how you're currently feeling. So there's things like what I do before I go on for the temple scene, I smash, and I do a large motion in which I am moving down with a lot of force and having a quick breath, as opposed to before I'm on for the for the lashes and the trial. I am in my I'm in my cuffs, and I do a ringing what Chekov would call a ring, where I take the breath into myself, and I contract a little bit and everything gets very tight and inward. And I can barely breathe, but I've taken the breath into myself and it's at that moment that I'm ready to go on and experience pain for the next 15 minutes. So yeah,

Katie Dooley  51:33  

cool.  That's awesome.

Jack Hopewell  51:36  

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, no, people don't usually ask about that. So it's fun to talk about.  

Katie Dooley  51:42  

Yeah, I like I said, I watch it, but I don't have any talent. So

Jack Hopewell  51:48  

I'm sure that's not true. I'm positive. That's not true.

Katie Dooley  51:52  

Well I just listened to our upcoming episode to proof it, and I do rap a couple lines of Hamilton.  

Jack Hopewell  51:58  

Oh, incredible. Excited to listen.

Katie Dooley  52:04  

Yeah, Preston tolerates me. So

Preston Meyer  52:06  

we won't subject you to any voice tryouts today.  

Katie Dooley  52:09  

Yeah, Preston was like, don't think he might sign off the call.

Preston Meyer  52:16  

Is there a question that you wish people would ask in interviews that never gets asked?  

Jack Hopewell  52:22  

I mean, honestly, I was going to, usually my response to that would be in terms of this show, like, what are your thoughts on Judas? But you guys asked, you asked me, like Judas came up. We talked about it. So trying to think other than other than Juda

Preston Meyer  52:52  

So nothing on the top of your head?

Jack Hopewell  52:54  

Yeah, nothing off the top of my head. But I'm gonna say I'm gonna say for the most part, what people usually never asked about is my relationship with Judas and whether or not I think that Judas knew what he was doing, or whether or not honestly, people never asked whether I think Judas is the bad guy. And I don't think he is. I don't think he's a bad guy at all. And I think he's human being. I don't think he's perfect. I think he's flawed, just like Jesus is. But yeah, I think he's a man who thought he was doing right. And wasn't.  

Katie Dooley  53:30  

Judas is just as big a part of Jesus Christ Superstar as Jesus Christ. Yeah. So I agree. I think it's important to have this interpretation of him. Anything else? Preston?  

Preston Meyer  53:46  

I got nothing else on my mind at the moment. Is there anything else in your mind Jack Do you want to bring forward before we finish this?

Jack Hopewell  53:53  

Other than if you want to, if you want to check out our show, you can follow us on any of our socials. Usually, the tag is Jesus Christ Superstar. It might be like JCS musical on Twitter. But for most, for most platforms, it's Jesus Christ Superstar. Our website for the tour is you can go to UStour.jesuschristsuperstar.com There you can find a lot of our bios and get tickets for the show, see where we're going next. Find photos things like that. And for me personally can find me on most platforms usually @JackHopewell or jackhopewell.com. So

Preston Meyer  54:35  

Awesome we will be sure to include all of those in our show notes. 

Jack Hopewell  54:39  

Thank you. Thank you.  

Katie Dooley  54:40  

Thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy touring schedule to 

Jack Hopewell  54:44  

of course. Thank you for having me

Preston Meyer  54:47  

It was a pleasure to have you join us.

Katie Dooley  54:50  

And then for the Holy Watermelon Preston.

Preston Meyer  54:53  

We've got our merch shop on SpreadShop. We've got Discord for great religious discussions, some great memes were pretty safe space for religious humour. We've got Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and of course Patreon for those of us who want to support us and get a little extra content out of us.  

Katie Dooley  55:16  

Absolutely. And with that

Both Hosts  55:19  

Peace be with you!