Israel and Palestine: A Difficult Discussion

“What do you mean ‘Hamas paratroopers’? Hamas doesn’t have paratroopers.” That was the reaction of someone first learning the news of this weekend’s terrorist attack across Israel, the worst mass-murder of Jews since the Holocaust. In this important discussion, Andrea is joined by Terrell Starr, host of the Black Diplomats podcast, who recently visited the West Bank and produced a series on Iran–a terrorist regime that reportedly helped in the planning of Hamas’s widespread attack.   In this conversation, we share our grief and anger for civilians in Israel and Gaza. We were already living in a time of collective grief before Hamas’s atrocities this weekend and their ISIS execution terror videos. And now things have escalated with serious ramifications for the region, the world, and yes, the US election. The discussion includes what Benjamin Netanyahu’s extremists in government have in common with Trump’s extremists; how the war in Israel will galvanize Trump’s base that supports Israel as a means to fulfill a prophecy ushering in the apocalypse; and how lessons in aiding Ukraine can help inform how to help Israel and Palestine meaningfully work towards a two-state solution.   The show notes for this week’s episode are a collection of trusted sources and voices helping us make sense of this tragic time and its complex history. Our bonus episode will be Andrea and Terrell sharing how to have difficult conversations about world events while trying to remain friends, how to protect mental health during a time of mass trauma and grief, and how to sustain conversations online in a way that protects yourself and your community. It also includes hard lessons learned from mistakes in US foreign policy, in relation to Russia, over the last ten years. Next week’s bonus episode will be a deep-dive Q&A so keep your questions coming. To get access to that, support the show at the Truth-teller level or higher on Patreon by subscribing at Patreon.com/Gaslit! Thank you to everyone who supports the show – we could not make Gaslit Nation without you!   Show Notes: How to Help Victims of the Israel-Gaza War https://time.com/6322238/how-to-help-israel-gaza-war-victims/   Anne Applebaum: "this government, which is the worst government in the history of the state of Israel, led by a corrupt, dysfunctional, and egoistic man who sees only himself—Benjamin Netanyahu—failed us." An extraordinary survivors' story: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/amir-tibon-how-his-family-survived-hamas-massacre/675596/   "The current government of Israel is not a partner for any constructive plan in the region. It is overwhelmed by ultra-nationalistic and messianic ideas, lack of experience, and inferior intellectual capacity." https://time.com/6322046/israel-after-hamas-attack/   Louis Fishman, Associate Prof Brooklyn College; Author of Jews and Palestinians in late Ottoman era: Turkish: “For months experts in the Israeli media warned that this gov was ignoring the growing security threat as a result of the pushback to Netanyahu’s judicial coup; they said Israel was losing its military superiority as more people refused serving in the reserves. Now we are here.” https://twitter.com/Istanbultelaviv/status/1711521792945516716   Mattia Nelles, German Ukraine analyst: Yair Golan, the former Israeli left Wing MP, is a true hero 👇 https://twitter.com/gadishamia/status/1711240299987562977   Amir Tibon @amirtibon Diplomatic Correspondent for Haaretz Newspaper, Israel to Josh Hawley: “What a cynical move. Shame on you Senator. Iran is sending drones to Ukraine and guns to Gaza, to murder Ukrainians and murder Israelis. God help us if USA cant support both countries against this brutal anti-democratic axis. Glad Biden is in charge.” https://twitter.com/amirtibon/status/1711597411007627510   Israel massed troops in the West Bank. Then Hamas attacked from Gaza. https://wapo.st/3rC42FT   Lisa Goldman: “The Israeli media now confirming that the gov't did receive clear warnings from Egyptian intelligence about the imminent attack that occurred on October 7. The PM's office initially issued a flat denial after the first report, but then did an about face and admitted it.” (Source: Channel 13 Hebrew) https://twitter.com/lisang/status/1711824708746838214   Kurt Andersen: “Until now I hadn’t really known of this piece of the recent history, the Netanyahu governments’ de facto alliance with Hamas, intended to prevent a real Palestinian state and 2-state solution. This is the distinguished @haaretzcom journalist Gidi Weitz.” https://twitter.com/KBAndersen/status/1711527406383558834 // https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-09/ty-article/.premium/another-concept-implodes-israel-cant-be-managed-by-a-criminal-defendant/0000018b-1382-d2fc-a59f-d39b5dbf0000   My 62-year-old Dad Fought Hamas Terrorists to Free My Family. The Israeli State Failed Us https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-08/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/my-62-year-old-dad-fought-hamas-terrorists-to-free-my-family-the-israeli-state-failed-us/0000018b-1068-dcc2-a99b-15794b0d0000   Israel's new far-right: Who is Itamar Ben Gvir? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OplM9oNmTfQ   Palestinians scramble for safety as Israel pounds sealed-off Gaza Strip to punish Hamas https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-airstrikes-hostages-bf6c42f84526c4d9416978c8effd932a   Save the Children director: 'Everyone is seeking shelter' in Gaza https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/perspective/20231010-save-the-children-director-everyone-is-seeking-shelter-in-gaza   The bombs raining down on Gaza from Israel are beyond scary, beyond crazy https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/10/10/the-bombs-raining-down-on-gaza-are-beyond-scary-beyond-crazy   What to know about the deteriorating humanitarian situation in Gaza https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/10/what-is-the-humanitarian-situation-in-gaza   Iran Helped Plot Attack on Israel Over Several Weeks https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iran-israel-hamas-strike-planning-bbe07b25   Trial of the Century: Revisiting the Dreyfus affair. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/09/28/trial-of-the-century   The assassination of Yitzhak Rabin: ‘He never knew it was one of his people who shot him in the back’ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/assassination-yitzhak-rabin-never-knew-his-people-shot-him-in-back   Netanyahu's Supreme Court overhaul effort seen by protesters as threat to Israel's democracy https://www.cbsnews.com/news/benjamin-netanyahu-israel-supreme-court-60-minutes-transcript/   Are Netanyahu’s legal troubles behind push for judicial change? https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/24/are-netanyahus-legal-troubles-behind-push-for-judicial-change   Why Evangelicals Love Israel https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-evangelicals-love-israel Half of evangelicals support Israel because they believe it is important for fulfilling end-times prophecy https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/   Jerusalem embassy: Why Trump's move was not about peace https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44120428   Max Seddon of FT: Putin finally makes his first comments on the Israel-Palestine war. He says it's "a clear example of the failure of US policy in the Middle East" for not "taking the core interests of the Palestinian people into account" and working to create an independent Palestinian state. https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1711721613610324242   Olga Lautman: What a ridiculous NYT article. Zero mention that for decades Russia supports Hamas, has extremely close relations w Hezbollah, works alongside Hezbollah to murder countless Syrians, and supplied weapons for many decades. Why is NYT waiting for condolences from the Kremlin?https://twitter.com/OlgaNYC1211/status/1711708594872226243   Lisa Rubin: In my head, I keep seeing one video over and over: A woman, who appears to be teenaged, being dragged by her hair into a truck and wearing sweatpants that are entirely soiled in the crotch. 1/ https://twitter.com/lawofruby/status/1711515444979306825   Noga Tarnopolsky: No, Vladimir Putin's silence on the attack by Hamas shows that Netanyahu made a catastrophic strategic error by thinking he was Putin's friend. As @YadlinAmos said all along. https://twitter.com/NTarnopolsky/status/1711704721050804319   The Russia-Iran axis is fomenting war in the Middle East https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/09/the-russia-iran-axis-is-fomenting-war-in-the-middle-east/   Trump’s Overrated Peace Plan Helped Enable the Horrors in Israel and Gaza https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-overrated-peace-plan-helped-enable-horrors-in-israel-gaza   Vice News: An Iranian teenage girl has been hospitalised after a reported attack in the Tehran Metro by the country’s so-called “morality police.” Hengaw Organisation for Human Rights said Armita Geravand, 16, lost consciousness after being assaulted at a metro station on Sunday. https://twitter.com/VICENews/status/1709605211310903745   Elon Musk’s X Cut Disinformation-Fighting Tool Ahead of Israel-Hamas Conflict https://www.theinformation.com/articles/elon-musks-x-cut-disinformation-fighting-tool-ahead-of-israel-hamas-conflict   US increases pressure on Ukraine to do more to counter corruption https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/03/politics/us-ukraine-pressure-counter-corruption/index.html   BOOK RECOMMENDATION: House of Bush, House of Saud The Secret Relationship Between the World's Two Most Powerful Dynasties By Craig Unger  https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/House-of-Bush-House-of-Saud/Craig-Unger/9780743253390

“What do you mean ‘Hamas paratroopers’? Hamas doesn’t have paratroopers.” That was the reaction of someone first learning the news of this weekend’s terrorist attack across Israel, the worst mass-murder of Jews since the Holocaust. In this important discussion, Andrea is joined by Terrell Starr, host of the Black Diplomats podcast, who recently visited the West Bank and produced a series on Iran–a terrorist regime that reportedly helped in the planning of Hamas’s widespread attack.   In this conversation, we share our grief and anger for civilians in Israel and Gaza. We were already living in a time of collective grief before Hamas’s atrocities this weekend and their ISIS execution terror videos. And now things have escalated with serious ramifications for the region, the world, and yes, the US election. The discussion includes what Benjamin Netanyahu’s extremists in government have in common with Trump’s extremists; how the war in Israel will galvanize Trump’s base that supports Israel as a means to fulfill a prophecy ushering in the apocalypse; and how lessons in aiding Ukraine can help inform how to help Israel and Palestine meaningfully work towards a two-state solution.   The show notes for this week’s episode are a collection of trusted sources and voices helping us make sense of this tragic time and its complex history. Our bonus episode will be Andrea and Terrell sharing how to have difficult conversations about world events while trying to remain friends, how to protect mental health during a time of mass trauma and grief, and how to sustain conversations online in a way that protects yourself and your community. It also includes hard lessons learned from mistakes in US foreign policy, in relation to Russia, over the last ten years. Next week’s bonus episode will be a deep-dive Q&A so keep your questions coming. To get access to that, support the show at the Truth-teller level or higher on Patreon by subscribing at Patreon.com/Gaslit! Thank you to everyone who supports the show – we could not make Gaslit Nation without you!   Show Notes: How to Help Victims of the Israel-Gaza War https://time.com/6322238/how-to-help-israel-gaza-war-victims/   Anne Applebaum: "this government, which is the worst government in the history of the state of Israel, led by a corrupt, dysfunctional, and egoistic man who sees only himself—Benjamin Netanyahu—failed us." An extraordinary survivors' story: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/10/amir-tibon-how-his-family-survived-hamas-massacre/675596/   "The current government of Israel is not a partner for any constructive plan in the region. It is overwhelmed by ultra-nationalistic and messianic ideas, lack of experience, and inferior intellectual capacity." https://time.com/6322046/israel-after-hamas-attack/   Louis Fishman, Associate Prof Brooklyn College; Author of Jews and Palestinians in late Ottoman era: Turkish: “For months experts in the Israeli media warned that this gov was ignoring the growing security threat as a result of the pushback to Netanyahu’s judicial coup; they said Israel was losing its military superiority as more people refused serving in the reserves. Now we are here.” https://twitter.com/Istanbultelaviv/status/1711521792945516716   Mattia Nelles, German Ukraine analyst: Yair Golan, the former Israeli left Wing MP, is a true hero 👇 https://twitter.com/gadishamia/status/1711240299987562977   Amir Tibon @amirtibon Diplomatic Correspondent for Haaretz Newspaper, Israel to Josh Hawley: “What a cynical move. Shame on you Senator. Iran is sending drones to Ukraine and guns to Gaza, to murder Ukrainians and murder Israelis. God help us if USA cant support both countries against this brutal anti-democratic axis. Glad Biden is in charge.” https://twitter.com/amirtibon/status/1711597411007627510   Israel massed troops in the West Bank. Then Hamas attacked from Gaza. https://wapo.st/3rC42FT   Lisa Goldman: “The Israeli media now confirming that the gov't did receive clear warnings from Egyptian intelligence about the imminent attack that occurred on October 7. The PM's office initially issued a flat denial after the first report, but then did an about face and admitted it.” (Source: Channel 13 Hebrew) https://twitter.com/lisang/status/1711824708746838214   Kurt Andersen: “Until now I hadn’t really known of this piece of the recent history, the Netanyahu governments’ de facto alliance with Hamas, intended to prevent a real Palestinian state and 2-state solution. This is the distinguished @haaretzcom journalist Gidi Weitz.” https://twitter.com/KBAndersen/status/1711527406383558834 // https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-09/ty-article/.premium/another-concept-implodes-israel-cant-be-managed-by-a-criminal-defendant/0000018b-1382-d2fc-a59f-d39b5dbf0000   My 62-year-old Dad Fought Hamas Terrorists to Free My Family. The Israeli State Failed Us https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-08/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/my-62-year-old-dad-fought-hamas-terrorists-to-free-my-family-the-israeli-state-failed-us/0000018b-1068-dcc2-a99b-15794b0d0000   Israel's new far-right: Who is Itamar Ben Gvir? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OplM9oNmTfQ   Palestinians scramble for safety as Israel pounds sealed-off Gaza Strip to punish Hamas https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-hamas-airstrikes-hostages-bf6c42f84526c4d9416978c8effd932a   Save the Children director: 'Everyone is seeking shelter' in Gaza https://www.france24.com/en/tv-shows/perspective/20231010-save-the-children-director-everyone-is-seeking-shelter-in-gaza   The bombs raining down on Gaza from Israel are beyond scary, beyond crazy https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2023/10/10/the-bombs-raining-down-on-gaza-are-beyond-scary-beyond-crazy   What to know about the deteriorating humanitarian situation in Gaza https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/10/what-is-the-humanitarian-situation-in-gaza   Iran Helped Plot Attack on Israel Over Several Weeks https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/iran-israel-hamas-strike-planning-bbe07b25   Trial of the Century: Revisiting the Dreyfus affair. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/09/28/trial-of-the-century   The assassination of Yitzhak Rabin: ‘He never knew it was one of his people who shot him in the back’ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/31/assassination-yitzhak-rabin-never-knew-his-people-shot-him-in-back   Netanyahu's Supreme Court overhaul effort seen by protesters as threat to Israel's democracy https://www.cbsnews.com/news/benjamin-netanyahu-israel-supreme-court-60-minutes-transcript/   Are Netanyahu’s legal troubles behind push for judicial change? https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/24/are-netanyahus-legal-troubles-behind-push-for-judicial-change   Why Evangelicals Love Israel https://www.thedailybeast.com/why-evangelicals-love-israel Half of evangelicals support Israel because they believe it is important for fulfilling end-times prophecy https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/05/14/half-of-evangelicals-support-israel-because-they-believe-it-is-important-for-fulfilling-end-times-prophecy/   Jerusalem embassy: Why Trump's move was not about peace https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44120428   Max Seddon of FT: Putin finally makes his first comments on the Israel-Palestine war. He says it's "a clear example of the failure of US policy in the Middle East" for not "taking the core interests of the Palestinian people into account" and working to create an independent Palestinian state. https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1711721613610324242   Olga Lautman: What a ridiculous NYT article. Zero mention that for decades Russia supports Hamas, has extremely close relations w Hezbollah, works alongside Hezbollah to murder countless Syrians, and supplied weapons for many decades. Why is NYT waiting for condolences from the Kremlin?https://twitter.com/OlgaNYC1211/status/1711708594872226243   Lisa Rubin: In my head, I keep seeing one video over and over: A woman, who appears to be teenaged, being dragged by her hair into a truck and wearing sweatpants that are entirely soiled in the crotch. 1/ https://twitter.com/lawofruby/status/1711515444979306825   Noga Tarnopolsky: No, Vladimir Putin's silence on the attack by Hamas shows that Netanyahu made a catastrophic strategic error by thinking he was Putin's friend. As @YadlinAmos said all along. https://twitter.com/NTarnopolsky/status/1711704721050804319   The Russia-Iran axis is fomenting war in the Middle East https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/10/09/the-russia-iran-axis-is-fomenting-war-in-the-middle-east/   Trump’s Overrated Peace Plan Helped Enable the Horrors in Israel and Gaza https://www.thedailybeast.com/trumps-overrated-peace-plan-helped-enable-horrors-in-israel-gaza   Vice News: An Iranian teenage girl has been hospitalised after a reported attack in the Tehran Metro by the country’s so-called “morality police.” Hengaw Organisation for Human Rights said Armita Geravand, 16, lost consciousness after being assaulted at a metro station on Sunday. https://twitter.com/VICENews/status/1709605211310903745   Elon Musk’s X Cut Disinformation-Fighting Tool Ahead of Israel-Hamas Conflict https://www.theinformation.com/articles/elon-musks-x-cut-disinformation-fighting-tool-ahead-of-israel-hamas-conflict   US increases pressure on Ukraine to do more to counter corruption https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/03/politics/us-ukraine-pressure-counter-corruption/index.html   BOOK RECOMMENDATION: House of Bush, House of Saud The Secret Relationship Between the World's Two Most Powerful Dynasties By Craig Unger  https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/House-of-Bush-House-of-Saud/Craig-Unger/9780743253390